Survivor 44 Review

0:06 And welcome back to Survivor 46 and 46 Jam just won Survivor 44 a season that I'm not going to lie as I started the day I was not enjoying on a rewatch but it definitely grew on me at a certain point in the season and I want to get right into it today we're joined by both Austin and ingred thank you so much for joining me on my I guess this is my penultimate way of doing because day 46 is going to be a live stream so this is my penultimate episode of doing it like this so thank you both for joining me and we'll just go right go right into the first question we started all of these with what were yall's first thoughts when the season aired you know specifically when the cast was announced did you do you guys pay attention to that aspect were there people that you were excited to see and what do you think of the season as a whole the first time you watched yeah so at least for us we spoil ourselves a little bit on the cast at least for our own personal like draft we use the inside Survivor website with that like post the cast as soon as like they go out to yeah

1:26 So as soon as those come out and we just have their pictures and name games and occupations and ages we do our draft for the season of who we think's going to win and I know I took no you actually had first pick ingred and you took Carson because I didn't think you were gonna take him you didn't think I was gonna take Jam were gonna do jam with my with the second pick overall but my first you hurt my soul and then when 4 re- ended and they showed us the preview I immediately was in love with Jam like I was so excited for the season the cast and it is I just went to double check the Survivor rankings that I did recently 44 is my favorite New Era season and I for me it's a lot of the cast that carries it there and I would say that the cast the cast once the merge hits like the people that survive you know whatever that pre merge was I do feel like they definitely do stand out watching it this morning the first problem that I had is I had I got ghost Island Vibes when on the marooning because I'm looking at the cast I'm

2:46 Like I don't remember half of these people well it turns out I just don't remember most of the pre mergers because I remembered everyone that I was supposed to remember but I'm looking at everyone else I'm like I have no Sarah there was nothing went off of my head of like oh yeah like Sarah I if there was just a blank spot there and then Helen was it Helen's probably my blank spot if I was if I no way that you actually existed on the season and the season happened I remember Sarah primarily for two reasons one it was our friend Dave's favorite player on the season at the start of the game so I remember him being really upset when she went out and the whole inheritance Advantage which is probably my least favorite thing in 44 even though it doesn't end up getting played but yeah ingred how about you did you have any people that's really attaching yourself to going in and how did you enjoy the season overall the first time that you watched it yeah I mean like Austin said we kind of spoil ourselves on the cast relatively early but obviously at that point you only see like a picture a name an age an occupation

4:06 Like that kind of stuff you don't see like the character that they're going to become so like yes I was mad at him for picking Jam I am Puerto Rican my parents were both born and raised in Puerto Rico so it was really exciting to see two Puerto Rican players on my screen I was really excited about that so I had great Vibes obviously from Jam even from the preview like Austin said and Heidi I was also really excited like I said for Carson and I was really vibing with Franny I really liked Franny in the early like preseason stuff I feel like Franny and I would be friends in real life if we ever like we in the same area of the world together and so I was really excited to watch her play too Franny was my winner pick one because she was my crush at the time my crush actually changed this time around which I'll we'll get to later but I was really vibing with Franny I met so I met Jam I met Jam at a party and I was hanging out with Jimmy I was hanging out with Jimmy T from Nicaragua and jam comes up and they're like talking to each other and after Jam goes away Jimmy goes

5:26 Don't say anything but he just played on the most recent season I'm like oh [ __ ] like that's cool didn't know that didn't know that he had won or anything it was like yeah that was a it was a fun moment watching the entire season because I just didn't expect him to win mainly because like why would he be at this party if he if he had just won 43 you know whatever question do you like it when a player is smart enough to hack the game Andor challenges I didn't mind it because I loved Carson we'll just start with the Carson of it all so I can get it out of the way I don't like this archetype almost ever there are a few exceptions Christian and I think that might Chris that might just be at Spencer Cochran Carson Ryan from HHH I've never really vibed with because it always the same thing of oh yes you know wo is me because I'm skinny white guy that and I've never had a girlfriend ever it's like Ryan or not Ryan what it is it Carson it's not like you're not an attractive guy it like you can't the fact that they keep trying to pigeonhole themselves they keep trying to pigeon hole themselves as if we're living in an 80s high school movie where yeah okay if we if we're living back

6:47 Then yeah probably not but this man is very traditionally attractive even for by nerd standards he was he was rush in the pictures and that's why I picked him first so I'm not a fan of Carson having said that I do appreciate when people are smart enough to hack challenges you know especially because Survivor recycles challenges that's what you're going to end up getting is okay well if you're going to keep doing the same thing over and over again you're basically giving people the blueprints to figure out how to game everything that you were throwing at them I mean they I mean people started gaming the auction people started gaming touchy subjects or whatever it's called in the actual show people started gaming a lot of the stuff it was only a matter of time before they started gaming the puzzles and other challenges they had thrown at them do you guys agree do you do you appreciate when that happens or do you feel like you know you people should go in you know with a clean slate I guess you go first S I mean I enjoy it's it's kind of a double- edged sword for me because like Austin and I have both tried some of these like printed puzzles like we both have had our fair share of

8:07 You know playing with them and seeing if we can do them and I think that's fun and I think that for the people that like don't like it I think it's mainly because of the producers end not the players in because if Survivor is going to use the same puzzle so often that people can do that I absolutely welcome it but I think that's a wakeup call to the show like you need to do something else like yeah I could even see you know this hasn't happened I don't think but like I could see we've been in Fiji for so long I don't care like I'm not somebody who's like oh we have to go somewhere else like that doesn't matter to me but like we have been in Fiji for so long and there are only so many camps that they use like if somebody was crazy enough they could see like oh this is where people looked for Idols that's the exact area and then be on that camp and be like oh I know that this person found this thing here maybe something will be hidden there and find something because Survivor fans are crazy and we know this as Survivor fans and so like showed Carson spreadsheet he was talking about how yeah he just immediately started doing it's like all

9:27 Right nerd but like I get it you know I it's not like we don't do the same thing exactly so like I think it's cool that people use it to their advantage and get to show that on the show I think you have to be careful with who you talk to about it on the show because some people will find that threatening versus like finding it cool or finding it annoying or whatever like I remember in Cambodia when Spencer solves that puzzle in like three seconds and there's like a confessional where Jeremy's like this man paused the television and Trace the damn puzzle and figured out how to do it what a nerd and things like that so it's like I think if you can balance it well I think it's a really cool thing but it's also a wake up call to production that's like do you really want to be doing the same puzzle so often that the players know how to do them before they get there or do you want it to be challenging and players yeah I agree I think for me it I'm in different on it and I think part of me does have the bias towards do I like the player or not because unlike you coach I do like this archetype because I see myself in this archetype in some ways not necessarily like the skinny nerdy XYZ part but the they

10:47 Love this game like they love Survivor more than like a lot of other things and like he 3D prints the puzzles makes the spreadsheets like I make the spreadsheet like I did telling you we were gonna work because you showed me the spreadsheet and I didn't run away yeah that's like that's endearing to me so from the Carson perspective I was like oh this is cool like I like that like and I do think I agree with thinker that is kind of wake up call to production like hey come up with new stuff but then I am kind of a hypocrite in that because I hated the fact that in I mean this is jumping ahead a couple of seasons from where you're about to be I hated hunter in 46 see I liked Hunter I liked hunter in 46 I was not a hunter fan in 46 I found him super boring and then I was just annoyed that he was winning all the challenges because he built them all yeah I so and this is and it's not and I don't have an actual issue with Carson as a as a person obviously it's more and it's I don't have a problem with Carson the player pretty much until the finale but it's just and we had in the in the comments you know we've gotten another Carson already in 46 and that's why

12:07 Like everyone you know when we start talking about 50 and everything and oh yeah who do you want back you can only cast one of these people and if you're telling me you're gonna cast him over Christian over anyone else I have an issue with that because yeah he's not even that he's not even that compelling on of the of his three he's not even the most compelling of his three he's probably the third most compelling to me as what I what I care about I don't disagree I don't disagree so there's a there's a confessional that he has in the finale where he basically he has his Russell Hance Xander moment where he's just basically saying well I've got this wrapped up and it's like I'm so glad watching it this time that I know you don't have it wrapped up because that came off as super arrogant but you know as a whole he was fine I didn't like the how he what he was doing at final tribal you know oh yeah you had a 33 and a third perc you know voting record and he trying to coach both Jam and Carolyn on how to speak during final as if these people don't know how to talk that is their entire thing is they know how to talk and I feel like it becomes more endearing

13:27 That they are being themselves with it and he's sitting there trying to coach it's like no just let them go just let them be themselves the question who is the car it's Charlie it's Charlie the interet robbed god once again don't buy it as we as we as we kind of work our way through the season like I said the pre merge is kind of thankfully with these new age New Era survivors the pre-merge doesn't last long the problem is that some of these pre- merges are not the best entertainment wise and I would say that today was one of them I texted Austin earlier about this like wow this is really Dragon and it was and end definitely skipped parts of the premerge today yeah that because we want we wanted to catch up a little bit to like see more of the like the post merge fun stuff not even like my memory didn't like I didn't remember that the pre merge was like a drag when you had texted me that we were still watching the premiere and I freaking love the premiere of this season like I mean it starts off like something we've never seen it before we start with a confessional from Carolyn and I think that was a great go yeah keep on going Austin I didn't mean to cut you off no you're

14:48 Good like I like I love the premiere I love the personalities I love like that's and the person who said like who's the who's the Carson in 46 like part of why I do love the season and it's where we differ there is this is a season where like you say 44 to me and I'm like oh yeah Jam J like I can list like so many people that are on this season and like I can't say I can do that with all the 40s like I feel like I can do that with 44 I can do that with 42 like you said the Carson a 46 and I had to look over at this whiteboard to remind myself who was just in season 46 because I don't remember and the I understand that there are a lot of folks that have issues with casting in the 40s I'm not one of them one because I'm a part of the Survivor diversity campaign and you know but two you know especially watching it like how I've done the last however many well the last 44 days I mentioned this a lot it's always very apparent who the recruits are and you can always figure out which seasons are heavily recruit heavy and this perception

16:08 That the they don't they only started casting super fans in the 40s is false because they really started around 32 is that's when we really start getting cast with a lot of people that just know what this game is about and I think by like ghost Island even we are getting a large majority of the cast being super fans or at least it's not obvious that they're not recruits and gr I mean ghost island is forgettable but I feel like that is one thing that I remember about it is the fact that they all came off as game players but people like to demonize the 40s as oh well you know we don't get any fun characters anymore we only get game players and that's so false because with this season especially with this season because we've got two of the final three are two of the better characters in this era and one of them is one of the best characters that we've had ever agree where I feel a little bit bad for Carson when you were like Carson's not even the best of his Trio and like inter his character I'm like well look at the two other people in his Trio they're arguably two of the biggest characters in Survivor yeah and we can go we can go with that Tri and we'll start

17:28 With Jam I've loved his confessionals this season Jam's such a great confessional he's so personable and I feel like and throughout the game especially at the merge people every now and then they'll mention oh yeah Jam's a social threat you know but we'll deal with it we'll deal with it but Carson we got like we gotta worry about Carson because this guy's smart it's like yeah who gives a [ __ ] you like for me it's always the social player that you really should be more worried about unless you're a social player in which case you just use that social player as a shield until you get rid of him Jam for me he has such a compelling story arc because he's not always at the top especially during the Sarah vote who but especially during the s v and you see him try to bounce back and once they hit the merge they the three of them kind of do lay under the radar under the radar as you can be when you are that three ingred how was he able to adjust and how was do you feel like he had this wrapped up before going to final tribal or did you think that because of what he said while he was there and how he performed is what actually got him that win I think that I mean

18:48 Touching on first what you're saying about how he wasn't always at the top we you know after skipping some of the pre merge we you know land on this merory episode where he like almost goes home and that's like one of the times I feel like in the new era where our like one of the times where our winners have been most in Jeopardy is that specific vote I think yes I agree with this comment here that's saying he's the strongest guy on Tikka after Bruce goes just like man and like obviously Carson's not far behind him but he's much smaller but like I do think I think it's a tossup between him and Carson if Carson is there but aside from Carson I don't think he has a true competitor to go against at the end as far back as like Franny it'd probably be Franny like yeah everybody in between Franny and him I genuinely think the only person who could have given him a run for his money is Carson while the season was airing I would have said Carolyn but the problem with Carolyn and I know I'm sure we'll touch on her

20:08 More but like the problem with Carolyn is that people didn't take her seriously regardless of what she said so like I think if people did take her seriously she would have given him a run for his money but because they didn't I think Carson's really the only one that could have like given him a run for this his money in the end game at all and so I think by the time Carson is eliminated he's going into that final tribal and I think he's got it I don't know that it's unanimous but I and it wasn't unanimous in the end but I definitely think he's got it in the bag Austin yeah I agree with that to an extent I think part of that too I always say like this something I say a lot when I talk to people about Survivor is that's what we see based on what they give us like I could see that there's an argument that Lauren is a threat to jam just in terms of like how many people from ratu are on that jury she has a great story about like being a single mother like people are going to want money like want to give her money like I think there like there's compelling arguments but like we're not going to see Lauren as much of a threat because the edit doesn't give us that because Lauren is not ultimately there to be our

21:28 Jones effect this is like the fourth episode in a row that I've done this where we are hearing people say that Lauren's a threat to win the game and we you're not seeing that Lauren is a threat to win the game so us as an audience are like well how is Lauren a threat to win the game and it doesn't it there's a there's a disconnect there and like the reason I called it electrc Jones effect is because of Micron yeah so it's like it's one of those situations we like based on the edit we're given yeah I think it's like Franny and Franny and Carson are jam's biggest threats in the in the finals to win but like that's also because we don't see enough from a Jamie or a Lauren because they are I mean Lauren is the first boot of the finale episode she's not really like her story gets wrapped up pretty quickly so we're not seeing a lot of like her game because it doesn't ultimately matter to the story that the producers want to give us as far as Jam having it like wrapped up I think to an extent like probably most of the jury was there I do wonder if part of how you were talking earlier of like Carson trying to like coach Jam and Carolyn is was maybe there more was there more t on Ponderosa of a lot of people leaning Heidi

22:49 And so Carson's trying to like help pull votes for Jam or Carolyn there and like help them out in that regard so maybe it wasn't as 100% but I do think Jam has a really good final tribal here I think one of the things like one of my favorite final tribals is Tony's in 40 and winners at War like I think if you can get the jury laughing with you that's a really good sign that you have a good shot to win like I think that like that's something Tony did really well in 40 and jam does a really good job here yeah by just being himself like there's nothing that he's doing there that it's like okay he feels it's not Chris and Van who feels like okay he's like really laying it thick yeah for like you know being the jury it just felt like again this is exactly the type of jam that we have been getting all season and that is a thing that you know when they ask oh yeah how did you use Carson it's like yeah I use Carson for information I used all of you for information if don't try to label me as a follower of this jamoke on the jury I did my own thing and Carolyn did her own thing and I IE that was the only time that I thought like jam like actually was just like no don't you're not doing this you're not GNA say that it was

24:09 Carson dictating my game because even I think Danny or somebody else was like well yeah well Carson was the brains of the operation it's like once again and I don't feel I mean just because I'm biased I don't think that Carson did any work at Ponderosa to say that he wasn't the brains of the operation like he wanted to he wanted everyone to believe that he wanted that robbed God status which is stupid I appreciated what we got from and so the I love Jam as a person I can't remember anything he did to warrn to win I would probably voted for Carolyn I would have voted for Jam I would have voted for Jam before his final tribal but his final tribal I like I probably still would I would have been more torn between the three of them because I do feel like the three of them did very well but James Jam I just felt like he was giving what he had given all season you know and he was this social threat more than these other two you know strategically none of the three of them had to be the biggest because this is a very Kumbaya season yeah which I appreciate because we don't get many Kumbaya Seasons this is very kumay season so you're probably 46 but you get to a point where it's like okay yeah they're probably they you could tell that they're that a lot of stuff that Heidi and Carolyn

25:29 Are really resonating with the jury and you can tell that the jury feels for them in the situation but you can see that they can still remove all of that and vote for who they felt played the best and I think they felt that jam played the best social game of the three of them I wanted to touch on the Franny being a threat aspect because I remember covering this season and I thought that FR is he matth or Matt two he's Matt okay once Matt gets voted out which we're going to talk about that because I have issues when Matt goes and he says to Franny like you know blah I love you basically Bas I thought she was screwed I thought she was screwed because now it looks like okay the juror number one has just given his support to one of the front run in the game and then she survives a fair few episodes including one where someone plays an idol for her when she is the threat she's giving googly eyes with Matt on the jury he's smiling at her there's a lot of stuff where it's like okay why are we keeping her even though I want her to survive why are we keeping

26:50 Her what are we what we all thoughts on Franny as a player this season and did you think there was any type of way that she could have made it past where she went out I'll go since he's thinking I mean I love Franny as a player I think that she's very like you said there's something about her that makes people want to keep her I mean as early as episode three people are talking about Matt and Fry and they're talking about like oh you know that's a dangerous pair and they get rid of Claire and then they keep going you know and like for you know whatever reason fine by me because I love Franny but you know and as the merge goes forward and she starts winning competitions or challenges whatever we watched big brother yesterday as she starts winning challenges and things like people start to see like oh she's like a physical threat too and she's AIC thre strategic threat and she's a social threat and I think honestly the thing that could

28:10 Have kept her is if she kept winning because obviously like Danny saves her at the vote where Brandon goes out we were cheering at the television that day and like something shifts because I believe she wins another challenge I believe she wins the reward she WIS she the reward Challenge and obviously that's GNA mess with some people because it was technically the loved ones challenge of today and so like she took the people she took I think she made the right decision with who she took because she took all the moms yeah that's a really diplomatic way to do it and but at the same time like she didn't take Danny who saved her and he is at camp like wow Franny's a threat Franny's a threat she didn't win we need to get rid of her so I feel like I don't know if he would have had the same thoughts if she took him or not but at the same time like he's kind of the person in power at that moment and so like in certain ways no I and like no he's like at that specific point in the game he has a lot of power and so like I feel like

29:30 Anything she could have done to keep him on her side is what she needed to continue forward because he was willing to save her at one point and so I think if she can't do that her only other option is to win out I really think because as soon as he's no longer on her side people see that as an opportunity to take her out and I do think that her getting as close to Carolyn as she did really threatened Jam and Carson which allowed them to feel like all right let's get rid of her because we don't want Carolyn to be more loyal to Franny than she is to us and they saw how voting out Franny without Carolyn went so yeah I think they made the right move for their game we'll talk about Carolyn Austin what did you think of the showmans you know I think there's a there's something to be said people are still shooting off fireworks July 8th that's too much sorry anyway what you know the show has shown us that unless you are Rob Mariano and Amber Burk it's probably a bad idea to have a showmance that is very out in the open because they think they're keeping it secret and like ingred just said nope it immediately still got clocked like everyone

30:50 Saw that it was going on I think the only person that didn't see it was Jamie I guess when the swap happened and I think Franny gives a confessional where she's like I don't think that Jamie thinks that and Matt are together do you how would you navigate that situation let's say you meet ingred out there for the first time and you link up that way yeah is there a way because there are only six people on a tribe is there a way to do this where people don't clock it as fast as they do I don't I don't think so I mean there might be but I mean the only way to like not clock it is to not do it I feel like it's but sometimes it's just not pck like it's not possible at time like and but you because you also you don't want to be the one to say like no either because then you're potentially risking an ally like at the in the same like token as like getting together with someone puts the Target on your back as like a Duo like not getting together with them you may just have lost a potential ally in the game for like a number that you need so like it's complicated I think like I don't know I

32:11 Me and ingred met playing an org yeah so like we kind of had that in like a digital sense and like there were some people who knew some people who didn't some people who claimed that they thought but like it's very different obviously on the online world because in like you're not constantly around them see them at camp and all that yeah but yeah no I think I think they were just kind of I they were screwed yeah they were screwed they were and I mean like there was an argument to make that and I think they did when they were debating in the round where Matt goes and it's only that small group voting they debated I think that having Franny almost saved Matt in a way that round of like they were like if we take out Matt we're going to make XYZ enemies and they felt like that was like their argument to keep Matt over keep Jam was if we get rid of jam less enemies when we get back together so like there are ways it could work out like if that group had decided in that moment that not pissing off Franny was more beneficial to their game there's a world where the showmance does work out this group of people just didn't give a [ __ ] so anyway

33:32 But yeah and do you want to address this really quick because oh yeah that is exactly what I was gonna get to I'm gon get thing real quick before we yeah go ahead go ahead I think the other thing with Matt Franny is like they're so attracted to each other like yeah instantaneously Matt's blushing through all his confessionals like even with Robin Amber like they were super into each other but they were really chill about it for most of like for the beginning at least like they were flirting has a confessional where he's like yes and like they were flirting and stuff and things like that I'm like I mean Rob Cino is Rob Cino he's gonna know but like they weren't like running around like that kind of stuff where like that's just not Who Matt and Franny are as people and you can see that very like at the beginning and so I think like they're kind of screwed regardless this because they just are not the type of people that can hide that the way they feel about each other and so like I think that there is a world where like people can potentially do it in a more I don't want to say nonchalant that's not the word I'm looking for but like a more secretive way and like even

34:52 At the beginning she like says something to Claire where she's like I told Matt we need to spend less time with each other for the rest of the day and things like that but it's like they can't they just can't help it and so I think like that just was never gonna work for them like they were better off just being blatant and open about it because they couldn't they I mean the three St the three stayed tight and were very obvious that they were staying tight so there is a case it's a it's the same type of thing but in a different way yes so we're gonna get to this question and then I want to get to the Matt the Matt round there's a lot that happens there oh my God what do you think of Heidi risking elimination do you think she should have gotten more than one vote to win I okay I think that it's the it's a great move on her end to do that because as we just saw in season 38 and what we didn't see in season 40 if you take the person that is your perception is this person is going to win the game you make that move because the worst case scenario actually is that person sits next they beat whoever you put them up a fir making and then they sit next to you and then you get blown out and yes Heidi still gets

36:12 Blown out in the situation but I think that was the right move of okay let me do this let me get rid of this guy and put myself in a situation I feel like I have the best chance at winning the game do I think she should have gotten more than one vote I mean every everyone votes with a different criteria for me I know where my specific vote would have gone and it would have gone to jam I mean I would I can sit here and say that I think that Carolyn and Heidi potentially should have gotten a vote each but like it didn't happen that way but I don't I don't necessarily feel that Heidi deserved to lose by less yeah because I think that there's all Heidi's always going to lose there but don't I don't think that there's losing is losing and so if we throw her at one more vote and she get she loses what 62 or whatever it was I don't think that it's still I don't think it makes what she did even more impressive in that aspect if that makes sense do y'all have any deferring opinions on how you feel about not only Heidi doing this but giving up the necklace as a as a as a move at Final Four I and I know ingr also feels strongly about this so I'm gonna I'm gonna go first before ingr gets on

37:32 Her Soap Box on this one because we have similar but she's a lot stronger in this opinion than me and yeah I think it depends on the player for me like me and anggry both have the same instance where we hate when jurries knock a player for not doing it when for all intensive purposes like their game should stand up on their own on its own without that move like I'm gonna I'm gonna at the season you just watched yesterday with this because I know ing's going to anyway like the jury being so mad at Cassidy for not doing it like I personally don't think she should have needed to like I think there's a there's an aspect to it where winning that immunity challenge should be equal to of what like fir making you're beating one person and yes maybe you're beating the one person that's biggest threat in the game to get that however you just also beat that person in the immunity Challenge and all the other people like that arguably should be more impressive than the fir making Challenge and what I think I've seen a lot in the Survivor community and I don't totally like disagree with is

38:52 That like fir making is such a big thing because the jury gets to watch it they don't watch the challenges maybe if they watched if they brought the jury to all the immunity challenges and they watched all those maybe that would play a bigger factor in their role and they might not think Cassidy needs to go against Jesse and fire or X Y or Z like I think especially with a 43 scenario like Cassidy identified who can beat Jesse and fire and still like even though gabler's the one who makes the fire to get Jesse out it's Cassidy's decision to put gaer and that gets Jesse out too so I think I don't think having I don't think putting yourself in fire should be like something that wins or loses you the game inred I agree I think that the fir making challenge is way too late to be trying to make a big move in my humble opinion like I don't think it should hold as much weight as it seems to in a lot of jurors minds and a lot of viewers Minds like es like especially with like 43 as an example

40:12 Like what the hell did gabler do the other 25 days he stayed off the radar he stayed off the radar like he stayed off people's Radars yeah and like great whatever right but like he stayed off my radar there were so many people don't we had a big G discussion yesterday I'm sure but like but like the thing is like I agree with what Austin said of like Cassidy is the one who put him in that position she already won the immunity challenge she shouldn't have to do that and same with Heidi like she won her spot at the End by winning the final immunity challenge like she should not have to further prove that she deserves to be there by also doing fir making that's the whole point of winning the final immunity challenge is that somebody gets a spot that they earned by winning the challenge yeah and on top of that like I said I think it's way too late like yes there are sometimes an instance where like there is a fallen angel that like happens to be vulnerable at the final four and you get them out and whatever a rick devans a

41:33 A Jessie like things like that like that happens and like I understand that like getting rid of that person is important but like because you have being the person right like and that's notable but I also don't necessarily think that like being the person to make a fire faster than that person in that one instance should make you like the person to beat at the end like yeah like it shouldn't discount and like I saw something a comment earlier where somebody said something about how Heidi should have tried to do make a move with Lauren and jimie and I agree if she really wanted a good narrative at the end she needed to make moves against the tik3 everybody did everybody who wanted a chance against anybody in the tik3 needed to make moves against them and that's where that game would have changed and where those moves would have mattered at the end whereas like all she did was stay loyal to Danny until she wasn't and play an idol on herself I think we I think where the fir making should matter is only in the event that the fir making doesn't take out that bigest threat like in a in a winners at

42:53 War situation where Natalie puts Sarah and Tony against each other Tony doesn't go so maybe Natalie should have put herself in and made it happen because then that does elevate her potential like it elevates Chris's potential but like when you put some like when you put someone else in fir making and that bigger threat doesn't go home then yeah like fir making does have some sort of effect I think because you didn't use it to take out the person the right way this is and I as listening to you guys talk I'm thinking more and more about it and I think that I may have found a new fallacy in Survivor logic in edge of Extinction the first time we see this happen well the first time we see someone put themselves in a in a fire situation it is someone that has come back from the edge and has only played 11-ish days or whatever and he has to play a perfect game because has been put in a situation where if he doesn't he's going to lose this Bas off of that he has to play a perfect game in order to win and he plays a perfect game because he does everything that's expected of him in that situation yes the only other time

44:13 That you know in season 40 I feel like the jury was right to hold those expectations on Natalie in that situation because she had only played eight days or whatever it was and she had to play and Boston Rob says it when he votes I said you had to play the perfect game you almost did you should have gotten rid of this guy it's the same thing where if she had just done that I like yes we know about what the jury may or may not have done in winners at War if it was Natalie Michelle and Sarah every other season where someone either takes off the necklace which is only here or puts someone at fire that you know is the biggest threat like both of you have said it shouldn't matter what you do because you've already done everything through 26 days here you've already done everything throughout the whole game that you don't need to put that you know you don't need to sit next yeah it only works a sit or winners at war that had an edge of Extinction I don't know if I froze there but and so I but I but I agree though

45:33 Circumstances and the history of mandatory final four fir making that it would make sense for someone to do that and this season is not one of them I think that Heidi should have been held to the merits of what she had done in the game period and let Jam beat Carson or let Carolyn beat Carson earned the spot because I already beat these people earlier today like both of you said yeah but I want to go to the mat tribal the map round because not since Michelle and Fiji have we seen such [ __ ] where this is wild I don't I don't mind I don't mind the twist whatever I mind the fact that they don't know any and they don't they don't bring certain [ __ ] to challenges they don't bring certain [ __ ] to challenges so you are really putting someone in a situation like it's almost the defense that people use when they hate on HHH final four it's like oh they don't know that it's G to happen so it's not fair I'll let it pass because I think it's fun to troll people that hate HHH even though I don't like it even though I don't like it's fun to troll them

46:53 Here I'm not even the super matte fan and I felt like wow that kid really got screwed there like there should have been some type of grace period to say hey can I please go get this because I'm screwed if I don't or bring their stuff to the island that they're going to yeah or just yeah in treemail say hey bring your stuff might want to bring your stuff or put something like even if it's like production goes and get Matt Jam like grabs everyone's bags and brings it to the island and they're waiting there for them it's so it's so and thankfully from there the season gets better for me yeah but at today I checked out and took a nap because I'm like that is that's kind of shitty and you know I took it was a 40-minute nap because I can't take long naps right now but I felt really bad for him it didn't help that was like a pretty emotional tribal I don't really I mean y'all don't have to go into much depth with this because I feel like we're probably all on the same page is it fair or foul it's not fair I mean like when people talk about like so and so was robbed so and so was robbed so- and so was robbed

48:14 Like blah like robbery in this sense is when somebody loses the game because of something that they have no control over and Matt was freaking robbed man he had no control over his situation in any way he was the only person from his original tribe on there he had no like strong allies with him he didn't have his bag he like the show really wanted him to like rely on the like telepathic messages he's sending to Franny on the other side of Fiji to bring his bag it was so whack to me when Jeff was like did somebody bring his bag like they shouldn't have to think about that's not their problem why are you putting it on Franny to think like oh Matt doesn't have his bag he might want it like that's not her responsibility at this time and like he like he was really up shits creek without a paddle yeah he like it was it was really crazy to me this whole like advantage that Heidi got in this round was kind of whack I mean like I feel like she tried

49:34 To act diplomatic About It by giving it to Lauren and like being like Oh I'm gonna make Lauren vote for Jam but like she said everybody knew she had an extra vote she could still vote however she wanted to with the other vote it didn't really matter but like I just I don't like that Advantage anyway I think it's dumb I mean the whole thing of this too though correct me if I'm wrong because I may have like Mis interpreted or forgotten or not H Matt's Idol was fake though right the idol he thought he had back at camp in his bag was F so the only thing he really could have gotten from his bag is a shot in the dark correct but it could have worked I mean yeah I don't like don't get me I get that like he's still it's still something I get but like he wants to play the idol so he probably doesn't even play the shot in the dark he probably just plays the idol and then it doesn't matter it doesn't matter but at the same time like the opportunity was there and he as a player should have had the opportunity yes like those were because he knows that he's going home yeah well and not even that then now he's going home and his bag's at camp Oh that okay yes that too as yeah like I like that sounds dumb but it's like no it doesn't sound dumb

50:54 But when people leave [ __ ] behind at Camp it stays at Camp they Roger left his underwear in Amazon or something like that I didn't realize this until several rewatches in but like Hannah Shapiro in Millennials Gen X where yeah I know our love but go just go just go have my moment she like half of the Season she wears these like ripped jeans that have lace on them those are not hers those are Lucy that she left behind a freaking gen xer left those behind and she wears them for like half the season like his like personal possessions are at camp and he can't even take them with him because of this stupid twist where they don't get to go back to Camp someone could always pull a yule and bring them to your hat brought your hat I feel like I feel like the winners should have gotten to go to like the sanctuary and eat while the play cool back I think that would have made this situation a little bit better did fre okay

52:15 Okay all right it wasn't just all right and then I do agree yes that's the that is the perfect way to fix send them to the sanctuary send everyone else back to camp and just let because even in that situation with Matt probably still knowing because they correct me if I'm wrong and like I said this was the last episode I watched before I took a nap today did they go straight to tribal or did they still have did they have time to strategize they perod okay just at like a random Beach that was not okay SOA Beach or something like that so it's it's a very I won't say it's an uncomfortable episode because I just watch 39 the other day but like it's an uncomfortable in the realm of just this season it's an uncomfortable moment because it's like yeah this is what's going to happen and yeah it's an emotional tribal and all of that but like at the end of the day he's going to go home there is no way out of this situation he is screwed and so he goes off he says his little goodbye to Franny and We're Off to the Races want to talk about Carolyn the character talking about Carolyn the character of the season for me the I was I was at a I was at a

53:35 Party for the premiere of this and you know the fact that she had that first confessional before everything started people at so I go to a lot of these things people don't shut up and people shut up when it started like that and I think that watching that and then for her to I believe get the last confessional of the Season or at least one of the last confessionals of the Season where she's like oh yeah can you believe you remember day one when I was doing this Carolyn was such a compelling character this season and a compelling player yeah watching it this time around and I was excited to see that she was going to be on Trader season 3 and jumping the gun a little bit but you know I'm hopeful for a return potentially in 50 you brought up Hannah shapira earlier I know people like to they probably put probably like Franny or someone in that archetype of the Hannah the aubre and the things like that for me I put Carolyn in the in a the emotional strategic player archetype that I put Hannah in because I sat here on day 33 and said oh yeah watching it this time around third or fourth time around Hannah was the driving force of that duo

54:55 With Adam to the point where Adam even says Hannah's the one that's sitting yeah Hannah's the one doing all of this and I feel like the jury just didn't appreciate the fact that she was a very emotional and very neurotic person and that's I get that I absolutely understand that I feel like Carolyn was the exact same way this season where she was a part of a of a fair few blind siid you know she kept on she held on to the idol the entire most of the time until she played it own car and made sure that people didn't know about it she was in on most of the things that were going on but she was also portrayed rightfully so and they call they pointed out they don't call it they pointed final B that she's a an emotional player I loved Carolyn this time around this the first time I watched this it's like okay I get I get it I Carolyn's cool I would appreciate a return after this it's like no Carolyn is the season Jam James the winner and I appreciate everything that he does but Carolyn is the season what were yall thoughts on Carolyn I loved Carolyn yeah I mean I wasn't as like engrossed with Carolyn as a lot of other people were ingred in particular I know loves

56:16 Carolyn and so yeah I mean I loved her I thought she was really compelling to watch I think she was a ton of and I think she had a lot of game tour that got discredited that probably shouldn't have I'll let ing go because I know she'll yeah go ahead I love listening to you compare her and Hannah I have not ever thought of that before and as somebody who's watched 33 probably approximately 87 times at this point that's a really smart comparison and a really interesting comparison like I do think that Hannah is the better play or plays the better game of the two at least in that specific instance but there were definitely so many similarities in the sense of like both of them went into final tribal and nobody was hearing their [ __ ] at all like people heard Carolyn I thought they heard Carolyn this time around but yeah they saw them in a in a goat way in a way that they shouldn't have been seen like she Carolyn specifically like I the thing that I think separates Carolyn from Hannah is like and Hannah is my girl forever

57:36 I love her but Carolyn is very like she like goes out of her way to explain that her emotions are a strength to her game and not even in a manipulation kind of a way but in like a my emotions are help me make the Strategic decisions I need to make kind of way and I loved watching her kind of like you know get not upset but like Get Loud in the sense where she was like why do I have to be emotional or strategic why can't I be emotional and strategic like I love when Jeff's like get some sleep Carolyn and she just looks at him and he's like are you mad at me and she's like yes like I love that stuff I love that she like she goes out there and she's completely herself and I think that's something we see a lot more of in the 40s in characters like you see a character like Maryanne a character like even Jam to a greater extent like these are people that like you trust them because you don't see how they could possibly

58:56 Hide something from you and yet she did she you know she sat on that Idol for probably like 20 days or something ridiculous like that like she sat on that Idol and didn't say anything for so long and then pulled it out to save an ally when it counted and like you know she has her blow up after Franny goes home and blah but even she says and I related to this so hard she was like my emotions just need a minute to catch up yeah and say okay like I can still work with these people like I need like I say this about myself all the time it's like I need to have the temper tantrum before I can do the thing and so hearing like I know hearing like a grown like adult woman with a child like say that on television was so gratifying I was like you know that girl and like all of her little quirks all of her little stories like talking about looking through her son's poo to get his teeth his tooth oh so I forgot about that and that's so wholesome because it's coming from her anyone else is like all right that's weird like just yeah but like she like she's

1:00:16 Using that as like an I am a determined woman and I'm gonna find this damn key to the idol blah and then like when she goes to travel Council and she sees the night and is like I had one of those growing up like what are you talking about but like that makes her even more endearing and so like I remember being really upset that she didn't get any votes because she deserved votes the same way that Heidi deserved votes like she played a good game and like she was gonna lose anyway you said about Heidi but like I feel like I was really surprised that Franny didn't vote for her because Franny had so much respect for her in the game that like I was really surprised that she didn't make that choice but at the end of the day you know you vote for who you vote for but like she I like what this comment are saying about she's a better version of Don and Lisa I agree and kind of disagree at the same time because I feel like her motherliness doesn't come out on the island as much as like a DA or a Lisa despite being a mom but like I do think that she's thinking as strategically as Don and Lisa were on their season yeah I put I know that the because Hannah is the one with the glasses and is neurotic that they have to put her in this nerd archetype Hannah they all look like me it's terrible

1:01:37 Well no but I put Hannah in the Dawn and Lisa archetype along with Carolyn like that's the archetype that I when I watch Hannah that's the that's the archetype that I see it's the dawn Lisa situation of they are just as in control and in the know their normally male counterpart Parts with Lisa You know Denise but oh sco whatever but because of the way that Hannah looks I think people put her in this other archetype oh you're this the female nerdy archetype and it's like well no that's that you can fit into more one more than one archetype but you know I also wanted to touch on this as we start to wrap up I also hated the one person swap with free with free premerge to production scared of someone being swap screwed give them a get out of jail free card crazy there's no there are no cation Point except for the one period so yeah we get the swap the swap for the first time since winners at War and I forgot that it happened like this in my head the swap happened like a swap normally happens I didn't I didn't remember that it was just

1:02:57 Kind of like this as everyone just switch Tri like this I don't I didn't like it I didn't like it at all and I know someone else brought up the other twist the one that Sarah got the inheritance yeah this kind of goes this kind of hearkens back if you might to 41 where they just felt like they had to throw a whole bunch of stuff yeah just to see what sticks and these two things did not stick at all because I don't even think they did this again in 45 or 46 with the swap no not like that they had traditional swaps which is the way it should be they traditional swaps 45 and 46 I don't know 46 might not have had one 45 defit 45 has a traditional swap it just ends up that like one tribe is all of old Reba plus one Lulu and then one is all of old Bellow and one Lulu and then the last one's like 22 one okay but the being they didn't do it like this again correct no but there is a traditional swap it just doesn't swap the way that we want swaps to swap but like yeah I mean I don't I don't mind the get out of jail free card because of the way they did it but

1:04:17 I don't like the way they did it if that makes sense like I would have been frustrated if one of those players that was swapped by themselves was just like immediately voted out and they didn't have anything to say themselves like that would frustrate me as a viewer so I don't mind that they gave them that safety blanket and then took it away from them at the merch because they didn't need it anymore but I think it's really it's about as bad as the swap in China I wish would have done one of two things in my opinion one of two things that would have made it better give them a clue to where Idol is maybe at their at their new camp like that way they have to work for a little bit or they could have done what they did in 41 and 42 and they could have given them all like one of those like phrases like those beware Advantage phrases yeah they're kooky and crazy but that adds a layer to like all three of you have to agree to activate these Idols for them to actually happen and I think that a fun complex layer to the game of whether or not people would have actually gone ahead and said their phrases that's fair and especially because sorry I wouldn't have minded like a choose your Champion almost

1:05:38 Kind of a thing like kind of like what they did in 43 but like they have to choose like what tribe they think is going to win immunity or something and if they and like they can't pick their own tribe or something and if that tribe also wins immunity with them like or doesn't you know like if that tribe is one of the two tribes On's immunity then like they get an advantage or a clue to an idol or something like just like giving them something to do to earn it to like add to it but just like I think like something like that could have been fun where it's like they are still very likely to get it but they still have to work for it yeah and thankfully of the two rounds that we have this swap only one person actually gets voted out so it's as close as you can get to no harm no foul yeah so as we start to as we start to wind down Austin we're going to start with you final thoughts on the season it is if you want to briefly touch on anything that we haven't talked about final thoughts on the season and your overall opinion of it I know you said at the beginning where it was on your personal list but if you want to reiterate it reiterate that feel free yeah so looking at my list 44 is my 13th favorite season overall across all of Survivor

1:06:58 And a lot of that really is carried by the characters for me I love Jam he's one of my favorite winners if I were to do a winner ranking he's probably in the top five in terms of at least like likability I like I did want to hearken back at one point to when you were talking about like jam played the best social game and I agree that like at the end of the day in these games social game wins out above all else in my opinion and like that's just the proof is in the pudding of like you can see it like when you look at Seasons more or less the seasons's winner is the person who played the best game socially I think that's you can like the perfect example is to look at 32 with Aubry and Michelle Aubry and Michelle and so yeah so overall I love the season it's full of characters I really enjoy people I would really like to see back yeah it's my f it I will say there are where I'm like all right 42 might be better than 44 they're literally side by side in my rankings I because I love maranne as well like maran's for me too like I love them both but yeah overall very positive thoughts I do also have to run like I told you of that other thing that I have to do I want throw out really quick oh awesome answer this question then two people that you would

1:08:18 Want to back for 50 yeah that where I was going to go was the two people I'd want back for 50 Carolyn I want to say jam but I also want to like avoid the winners so Carolyn and if not I'm gonna throw a real wild card out there and I'm gonna say Matthew shoulder guy I think that shoulder like he did so much in those first few days that were that was really fun and really compelling that I would really like to see what he can do if he doesn't get injured because he had such an impact on the game despite that with the fake Idol and Jamie was so convinced that she had an idol the entire time so those would be my two thank you so much for having me aw thank you but good night we'll talk soon man yes of course bye Ang how about you any final thoughts on the season and where you know how do you feel about it overall yeah I don't know where my list is so I can't give like a specific number but like it's definitely in my top half and I would say it's probably number two on my like on a new era ranking with 42 being number one so I am an agreement with you there I mean I am somebody who watches

1:09:38 Survivor for the characters some people watch for the strategy somebody some people talk for or watch for you know other things I don't know everybody has their thing for me it's I love to watch characters why I love m versus Gen X so much that's why you know a lot of my favorite players are better characters than they are game players and it's just a sweet spot for me if they can do both and I do like this commenter's question and I will try to address that yeah I'm gonna get to but I think I love Jam as a winner I'm glad if it wasn't going to be Carolyn that it was him honestly I loved the final three just from a an a sense of like Heidi wasn't as compelling to watch on television as I hoped but you know two Puerto Ricans in the final three like I'll take it watching Jam with his accent reminded me so much of my family I have a you know two degrees of separation from Heidi which is really fun somebody I worked with on a show once she was my assistant director is a childhood friend of Heidi so that was really cool to watch from that perspective as well but like you know I think

1:10:58 Really solid post merge like you said there are some fun little elements of the pre merge I love the little like Josh trying to fool them with a fake Idol and jam's like Josh though are those are Beats from tree mail tree you're not like what are you talking about I love that I love the whole like Carolyn getting the idol and people being like who could it possibly be and nobody suspects is amazing things like that Matthew and the fake Idol like there are some fun little tidbits it does drag I agree which is why I have it lower than 42 because I think 42 is just entertaining the whole time but at the same time like I said it's number two in my in my ratings for New Era season so far I mean the only ones I really didn't like were like 41 and 43 and 41 is like not that bad either 43 is the one goggles nostalgic goggles it 4 it's fine the I literally cried but I'll send you a video I'll send you the video of where I was at

1:12:19 When that happened sure was terrible sure was crazy but we did get to watch an episode at a watch party with Bryce and Wendell so that was fun for 44 it was the episode where Jam won immunity and Danny went home which was beautiful for me I loved that in terms of two people that I would like to see in 50 I have a feeling we would have the same to I think it's Carolyn and Franny for me okay I think for me for me I the season definitely picked up in the second half when Matt goes home like right which is basically the merge yeah and so for me I'm giving it a four out of five it's going to be number 24 of 44 Seasons right now it's in between Australian Outback and Edge Of Extinction I think right now it's the second of the new age 42 I have way up so I don't think there's anything 42 really high as well as far as my DVD cover it would be the ti3 plus probably Franny

1:13:39 Maybe Danny and let's throw Heidi in there I probably say Heidi yeah I'd probably put Heidi on there just cause she you know she made the end and then yeah I think I would also say Franny and Dan no Brian and so hard when he did that in yeah that was it was almost as worse as worse as David Murphy and in Redemption Island I didn't have to turn my worse it's so bad the people that I would have back for 50 Carolyn by far and if I had to pick someone else and if it's not a winner it'd probably be Franny yes you're right we would probably just pick the same too ingred and Austin thank you both so much for this it's I can't believe that tomorrow's my last day of like doing it like this it was great to it was great to have you guys on yeah it was great to have you guys on for this I think similar to almost every other New Era Survivor season I think it's unnecessary unnecessarily hated on because people don't like change

1:14:59 Agreed but I think there's a lot of Merit to 44 when people say oh yeah I would rather watch Thailand than any of the new Air Seasons like you're a liar you're a liar because not that no you would not so I'm looking forward to watching 45 I'm really excited for 45 because you know 43 through 46 I've only seen once 45 and 46 I've only seen once and I didn't cover either one of them on a pod so like these are not even so close to being fresh in my head so I'm excited to get to that extra thank you all yeah thank you to everyone in the chat thank you to everyone who continues to watch these remember that Wednesday we're doing a live stream all day watching 46 and we're going to have all of our guests that have joined us over the last 44 days up to this point throughout that day so I hope that you guys can join in at one point or another and yeah we will see you all on the other side woohoo