Survivor 51 Episode 5 Recap: Alexis and Linnea Out

0:00 Welcome back here on the Nullified Take channel on YouTube where Andre and I have got the TNT takes for you on Survivor 51 episode 5. I'm excited to be back in Melbourne and not in a cloudy, overcast, Gold Coast like I was last week when we did this podcast from my hotel room, Andre. How are you? Well, we've got the TNT takes. We also both have hay fever. So what can you do? Yeah. So if you see us pausing or muting real quick, it's probably because we're going to sneeze or something. But Andre, for those who don't know, came over to Melbourne for work this week. We got to catch up in person, which is always a great thing when we are able to do that. But the moral of the story is now I'm not the only one struggling with hay fever because Melbourne's got, I feel like, some of the worst hay fever in Australia. It has to have, like, I don't know if there's any place that's worse for hay fever than Melbourne.

0:53 And I chose to come and live here, which is, I don't know why. I question that. It's not a storm asthma. I've never heard of that in my entire life. Apparently it kills people. So there you go. Yeah. How was the trip back? Went smoothly? Oh, no. Because I had a bunch of hay fever. It just completely destroyed my airwaves. Oh, no. My ears had so much pressure. It was terrible. But I'm okay now. Okay. That's good. That's good. Did you enjoy the episode this week, Andre? What's your thoughts? Like, do you feel like Survivor 51 has recovered slightly from the previous episode, where I feel like everybody, including ourselves, were thinking that the season was on the wrong trajectory. It was going in a downward trajectory. Oh, yeah. It half recovered, for sure. I felt like the Dina tribe was a snooze fest, as always.

1:44 But the other, what was it? Savu? Savu? The second tribal council? I think so, yeah. I'm super excited to chat about that. So, yeah, I think it's half recovered, for sure. Yeah, Savu, I think, is the one that you believe was the snooze fest, because it had the three Helicopter Alliance people in it that ended up with, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's hard to stay on top of the names with the way that they knew the tribes. The Helicopter Tribe, yeah. The Helicopter Tribe. We'll just call them the Helicopter Tribe from here on out. So, you're saying that the editing did not fool you this week? Like, you didn't think for a second that Alexis had a chance in that group? Even the way that they edited it looked like, or he was maybe closer with Alexis than what we believed. None of that. You weren't buying it, is what you're saying. I wasn't buying it. I mean, when Jelly sort of had sort of like that, oh, should I don't want to have another woman to be voted off.

2:37 But then I've got the Helicopter Alliance, and it's kind of like, well, damn did you do and damn did you don't. You're going to make a choice. I was not fooled. They've made it such an editorial choice to show the Helicopter Alliance. So, I knew it was going to happen, for sure. I feel like Jelly was in a lose-lose situation this week. I don't know what the online community's response has been to this, but if she turned her back onto the Helicopter Alliance, she's not for the culture, which is kind of what she was alluding to in the episode with both Ori and Devin being there. We spoke about, I think, I don't know if we spoke about it on the podcast or off-air, but this has like almost a cookout alliance kind of thing around it where people are sticking together for the culture. They want to get themselves to the end here. And then the other part of that is people are very pro-female empowerment when it comes to Survivor, and they want women to go deep in the game.

3:28 It's always been a thing. If a guys' alliance come together, we hate on that. We want the women to band together, get to the end. The Black Widow Alliance is celebrated, for instance, right? And she was kind of stuck between two, she was stuck between, what do you call it? A hard rock and a soft place? A hard place, yeah. Rock and a hard place. There you go. She was stuck in between that, right? So what were your thoughts? Like, I feel like she couldn't win in this moment. Like, she was going to upset half of the internet, no matter what she did. Well, like, her mistake was sort of airing that out to begin with, because it's like, once you say that out loud, you can't win. And I think there was a secret scene between her and Ori. It doesn't seem like she really liked Ori that much, to be honest. Like, oh, Ori's boring. I wouldn't go on a date with him. So it's like, they didn't even show that as well. So it's kind of like, well, if they're not going to show that, they're probably going to go with the helicopter alliance either way.

4:20 So you can't win. I can't say I'm the biggest fan of Jelly this season. I quite like Ori. I think he's relatively likable. I like Sharonda. I think Devin's a really good character. But I don't know. I'm a little out. I've come around a little bit on Devin as a villain. Like, I think he's a good character. I think we need people like Devin to be just, I don't want to say he's unlikely, but he makes a good villain, I think. Yeah. Jelly, I just think, I just, I mean, it's the same old, just like, oh, which one should I go with? I'm the flip phone. She's coming across as, the way that they've edited it, she's coming across as a bit of an indecisive player. Like, she doesn't know what she wants to do. But I think in reality, the editors are playing that up because they wanted to create, intrigue this episode or mystery in the sense like, oh, can Alexis wiggle her way in, you know? And for, I don't know, like, I've watched Survivor for so long.

5:14 And somehow the edit had me sort of thinking that there was a possibility here. I don't know how I was like getting fooled by it. And I was thinking to myself, will Andre and I come together on the podcast this week and say, we thought it was a clear cut and it wasn't. Like, look on, maybe the Survivor producers actually do a good thing with mixing these tribes up. Maybe there was, like, mystery in it. But it ended up working out in the way that we thought with Alexis going home. But I just want to say, before we start talking about Devin, because Devin's, as a Devin, before we start talking about Devin, I want to say hello to Bandit Survivor, fellow YouTube content creator who has been on the podcast before as well. Bandit, I hope you're doing well, my friend. Welcome to the live. And we've got Dreadful Ruby here in the live as well, saying, being this far in with all women being voted out is rough. I think at seven women in a row now, Andre, a new record has been set on Survivor as far as I'm aware.

6:08 And it's never happened before where the first seven people in a row that have been voted out, obviously, we've got one person who self-evacuated or quit the game. Outside of that, it's just been women getting voted out one after the other. Well, it extends into 50 as well, right? Because the last man that was voted off was Devin's, Rick Devens, in 50. So I think that probably extends out even further. That probably doesn't count. But yeah, I can think of another one. I think San Juan del Sur, season 29. I mean, it wasn't all in a row, but I think at the final sort of 14, I think there were only like four women left. But then three women were in the finals. So it's not completely unprecedented. And who knows, maybe the final three will be all women this season. What a turnaround that would be. It kind of reminds me of One World, in a way, where One World, the women took control of the game so much that the men were depleted by the time that they got to the merge.

7:07 And then there was no comeback from that point. And then the other one that I can think of is Vanuatu with Chris having to be the only guy with seven women or something in the game. And he had to fight his way to the final two in that situation. Well, both were exclusively men versus women seasons, though. So that's a little bit different. I think they've just pitted them against each other. Yeah. But I think that's, I think there's going to be a clash of egos sooner or later. It's just going to be man after man after man. So, I mean, unfortunate, very unfortunate. But let's see how it goes, I guess. Especially once the merge hits, then there's going to be like big guys like Brady and Devin that are probably going to be taken out pretty swiftly. Yeah. And like Dreadful Ruby here says, the men are kind of a mess. So that wouldn't surprise her if they do end up going one out after the other. But Devin, let's talk about Devin a little bit. We got some really emotional backstory content here in the beginning of this episode, Andre, to get a bit of an understanding from each of them, where they come from.

8:05 And there was a big focus on Alexis, who ended up obviously going home and her story. Like, I mean, it's also a crazy story to think the fact that she went to jail and were doing some things like it sounded like there was some substance abuse and things like that in her life to turn it around to become a lawyer that now defend people in the criminal justice system. Well done. Hats off to her. What a turnaround. But, you know, ultimately, Devin, his story, I feel like would have probably made an impact on a lot of people like yourself included, who have sort of been coming for Devin in the first four episodes and have been pretty hard on him. Because I do think when I look at Devin, like I agree, I don't think Devin is going to win this season. And if he does, it will be one of the craziest wins we've ever seen because he is playing very sloppy, very messy. People know that at some point they need to make a decision on this guy because he can't keep his mouth shut. He just says what's on his heart, you know, but that is who Devin is.

8:59 I feel like he is his authentic self out there and he's a very happy, lucky go guy who's got a positive outlook towards life, who's always smiling, who's always like energetic and it's coming across as a villain. I don't know why, because in some ways I don't think he's playing a character out there. But can you talk to me about, I guess, your feelings around Devin now that you've seen this backstory as things change a little bit for you? It sounds like it may have. Oh, well, maybe not for the reason you think. So he didn't have a great start to the episode when he was like saying, you know, we vindicated Aaliyah, I think it was, that was voted off. We got rid of Jenna. Jenna didn't vote for Aaliyah. What's he on about? Like, it just seems so in, like, so disjointed. What really brought me around on Devin is, I always thought that Devin was a bit of a hypocrite. I thought he was kind of like a bit of a coach type of character. He was not self-aware. He was going, I'm going to be truthful.

9:50 Seems like to me, he's leaning into, I'm going to lie to people. He flat out lied to Alexis. Like, this is like, and it wasn't even like, God, I think to the camera or in his confession, he's like, look, I'm going to do this because this is what needs to be done. I thought that was really good gameplay, so it seems to me is, like, Devin is playing one way towards people and one way to the camera, and I like that. I like that at least he's being congruous with himself or at least congruous to the audience at the very least, and that was my major concern with Devin very early on. He was like saying, I'm going to be super honest. Turns out he's not being super honest, but at least he's aware of that, and I respect that. In a funny way, I respect that. He's not the first player ever to play the game. Like, yeah, exactly. Like, there are players that have played the game in the past that have said, we are the good guys. We are doing the honorable thing while lying, backstabbing, cheating, and stealing.

10:43 Yeah, exactly. Where Devin's not that. Like, you could see, even when he did lie to Alexis in this episode, it emotionally got to him. Like, he was quite emotional about the fact that he's needing to lie to this person that he's actually bonded with at a very deep level. Because you and I, Andre, and the rest of the audience, like, we'll never understand. This is something I do give the Survivor players. We'll never understand what it feels like to be depleted to that level, have no comforts, have no food, sitting out in the cold, the rain, you know, having to cuddle for heat. If they're still allowed to do that on Survivor, because I know there's some controversies around that in the past as well. But having to be out there and survive and connect with people on a very deep emotional level. Like, I do think he felt bad about the fact that he had to lie. But what I like about it is that, you know, he did it anyways. Like, to me, that shows there's a player in there that is willing to come and play the game, even though, to your point, he is being very truthful to the people out there and saying, I'm going to play a straight up game, I'm going to tell you how it is, because you pointed it out a couple of episodes ago in the podcast that if you can flip the switch and use that because you've built that credibility in the first couple of days out there that you're a truthful player, you can actually use that as a weapon and say, I always tell the truth while lying, and people will probably fall for it, right?

11:55 Just like they fall for the Carter Salvin accent, the JT Salvin accent, the Russell Salvin accent, he's a good boy, when they potentially can play a DBS game. I feel like it could become a bit of a facade. But I did want to address Devin's story just a little bit here before we go on. You're a cold-hearted bastard for not acknowledging it here on the podcast, Andre. I thought, like, what a story, though. Like, to lose both your brothers, to get to the point where you're now older than your oldest brother, you never thought you were going to get there. His why being looking, like, at the TV in his dream and seeing the things that his family members achieved, and he didn't achieve anything, and now he's out there trying to play the game. I do feel like it was a good storyline. Like, and I know Survivor can sometimes overdo it with the backstories, and they have, like, flashbacks where they show them in their personal life, almost like Big Brother-like when the players come in.

12:48 I like the fact that they didn't go over the top like that, but they just let the story be the story out there. And I did feel a little bit closer to her story. I couldn't remember Ori. Okay, Ori's story was also a good one. Ori's one, I thought, could have been, by the way, I still think Ori could win this game. I've got my eyes on Ori. I think he's got a really good social game. If people don't take him out, he could win a couple towards the end. I think he's likable. The fact that he's got an immigration story with his mom going over, having to work at McDonald's, bring them food. They had struggle growing up with things like that. I think his story could resonate with a lot of people if he gets to the end, and somehow a lot of people are not looking at him at this stage as a threat, but he's insulated with the Helicopter Alliance. I know I said a lot there, but any thoughts, criticisms if you want to push back on me saying you're a cold-hearted bastard? I'll allow for it. Well, in fairness, I didn't even acknowledge the stories. I guess I hadn't gotten to it yet.

13:40 What stood out to me was not the stories, to be honest, because everybody has a story, right? That's true, yeah. Yes, Devin's story is exceptional. I feel like I didn't get too many details about it. Not that he should be giving details about the circumstances. I completely understand that. Maybe he did, and maybe they didn't edit it in. What really stood out to me was we didn't really get any of Jelly's story. We got all three of the stories, but we didn't get Jelly's story. To me, that was like, that signaled to me that she's not going to win. It's like, okay, we're seeing Ori's story, we're seeing Devin's story. Devin's obviously going to be a big character. Ori, I think what you're getting is Ori might win because of this, because we got his story. And I think in a different, like, I think Alexis' story for me was the most resonant, I think, because it's like, it's, you know, she was, it was so vivid the way that she told her story.

14:35 And what really stood out to me was that in a different season, I think Alexis could have been, like, a really good player. I think last episode we were saying Jenna, you know, Jenna probably had a potential. I think Alexis even has more potential now that we've seen a little bit more about her. She outplayed Jenna last episode. You know, she did nothing wrong. Alexis did absolutely nothing wrong except to be on the same tribe as three Helicopter Alliance people. Andre, playing my best Jeff Probst impression here, is Survivor really that simple, Andre? Yes, I guess. If you have three tribes, yes, it is. That's his favorite thing to ask because it's really that simple, but it is. I agree with you. I'm just joking around a little bit. She outplayed Anna as well, didn't she?

15:26 She completely threw her under the bus. Yeah. Yeah, no, she did. She did. And I do feel like with Alexis, and I think that's why it got me, because I agree with you. I saw something within her and her story, like, to have to be able to go to prison and deal with people at that level. And I don't know, there's something about her now being a criminal lawyer and being able to articulate your story and convince people and things like that. I just saw a player there that I feel like is adaptable and could adapt into any situation. The one situation that she probably couldn't adapt into was an alliance that is built on more than just the Survivor game itself, which is the Helicopter Alliance. This is Jelly kind of alluded to it, that she was stuck between two places. And one of it is, like I said earlier, is, like, fighting for the culture and trying to get people that she resonates with to the end, which is a very big why to try and break if you're an outsider outside of that, right?

16:22 And probably that's not the only thing. Like, I also think Jelly likes Ori a lot. Like, there's some attraction there. Who knows? They may date. If you saw the secret scene, you wouldn't say that. Really? Yeah. Explain. Enlighten me. So there's a secret scene on Jelly asking, oh, if I went to New York, what would you do? And Ori's like, oh, we're going to go here. We're going to go here. We're going to get some pizza. And she's like, eh, that doesn't seem that good, to be honest. Like, it just seemed like she had a bit of anick from him, to be honest. Which is interesting that we didn't see it on the side of the episode, because I feel like that would be a pretty important plot point. Or any scene sort of like, oh, everybody likes Ori. But it just seems like Ori, in the secret scene, not editorially speaking, he seems like they're showing him as a kind of like a likable person, kind of with a vanilla personality, kind of like everybody kind of likes him.

17:20 But there doesn't seem to be as much substance. That being said, he did have the story about his mother. So maybe they are trying to show him in a good light. That, again, makes me think, why is the editing team editing him in that way? He's clearly going deep, if not winning the show. He's going to be a big character. They're trying to make him this likable character out on the island. Like, I almost think like if you think back about James Clement back in the day, like he was a big character that they showed in a positive light all the way until Heroes vs. Villains. And then Heroes vs. Villains, we got to see the other side of him, which may be the real him, yet sometimes could be a bit of a jerk, right? Yeah, Rupert's the same way. I feel like they really edited Rupert to be not in line with his reality either. We kind of see a little bit more of him in later seasons. Yeah, because I think they were like, okay, well, we got two seasons out of them.

18:13 They're in the third season. We're maybe not going to show them again. Let's show the other side to them a little bit as well. It's interesting. Editing can be very powerful. We spoke about that, I think, last week here on the podcast as well. Hey, Sarah, welcome to the live. Sarah's in the live. Dreadful Ruby's saying, amazing. She should be very proud. Sarah's saying, I think the players are going to catch on because they don't want their season to be that season, considering their season is already really good. What do you mean by that, Sarah? Let me see if she said it in the next one here. Purple was predictable vote. However, Red Tribal was so great and made for great TV. Even if their tribe goes, Kilby is definitely next. I have a Lewis out here proving the luck of the Irish. We'll talk about that very soon as well. I did want to go to that tribe, actually, the Toka camp. And Toka camp, Thien An is in a very strong position, it feels like, in that tribe.

19:05 We continue to see her sort of character being developed on the show a lot. Like, she was acquired in the first couple of episodes. I think you're a big fan of Thien An as well, Andre. You were talking highly of her in the previous episode. She clearly has a target on that side being Mike. She's targeting Mike. What's your thoughts about the fact that she's sort of saying Mike is that bottom feeder, someone that will just go wherever the power is. Do you see that in Mike as well? He just seems to me, as a TV character at this stage, being very bland. And I've got a feeling that we're being set up here for Thien An to be the person that gets sniped at some point rather than Mike. I don't know why. I don't see that. I think Mike is going to go out on, like, a point flip or just, like, a weird vote. And they're just going to be like, look, Mike is just a bottom feeder. He's inconsequential. And I think Thien An's going to be probably final five-ish, I feel.

19:57 I get that sense. Her edit reminds me very early on of Tina's. And there was, like, the famous Tina's, the dog that didn't bark. She didn't get one confessional in the first episode of Australian Outbound. I feel like it's a similar type of trajectory for Thien An. Like, first two episodes, I already ruled her out as a winner. I was like, who is she? She hasn't had, like, a professional. But she's becoming, like, very – so that's why I'm not saying winner. But I'm saying, like, final five. I think she's going to be a very important strategic player. And she's probably – another, guys, more recent example is, like, Genevieve's original season where Genevieve was nothing in the first couple of episodes. I can see that. She took out Rome, I think it was, and then she came a really big power player. So I think she's very much in line with that. And I think that Mike is just going to be one of her victims, I feel like. I think Mike's going to be her Rome, I guess.

20:50 Yeah. I can actually see that to a large degree. I just – I don't know why, but I just had this feeling that Brady wasn't fully on board with Thien An when they had that conversation about Mike being the one that should go. We probably need to do the numbers at some point and actually look at who's in that tribe. And then for those that are not aware, this is probably a good point to actually tell people who are listening to the podcast or in the live that we have now created our own Nullified Take website that people can check out, actually. So I'm going to bring that up. And what we have there is a bit of information, actually, as well on each episode. And let's look at what the tribe split looks like on the website. So bringing it up here, thenullifiedtake.com. You can see all the podcasts. You've got Spotify, Apple. You can watch on YouTube. Everything is there. If you click onto Survivor 51, it will tell you how many players are left in the game at the moment.

21:44 Seven out of the game, 14 is still left, episode five. Here's the tribe breakdown. We've got Toka, Yellow, Brady, Carter, Kristin, Maggie, Mike, and Thien An currently in that tribe, Andre. So if you think about that, Thien An is very close with the likes of Carter. We know that they're a very strong two. And she's also close with Maggie. That gives her three votes locked in. But then on the other side of that, you've got Brady, Kristin, and Mike. And I feel like Kristin probably is smart enough to know that if she goes with the likes, I know she's been talking to Carter, but Carter doesn't want to buy into anything. That Kristin is saying. I feel like Kristin could find a home with Mike and Brady here, to your point, where we could see a potential of a 3-3 vote that could go to rocks, right? Now, will we have two episodes in a row where people are actually willing to go to rocks? That's a different question. But what's your thoughts on the Toka, Yellow, Tribe?

22:38 Yeah. I mean, did Maggie miss a trick? Like, I mean, we'll talk about Maggie later, but the reason I bring her up now is because she had an extra vote. She no longer has an extra vote. So I don't see them going to rocks. I think that something is – I don't even know if they're going to go to Tribal Council again, to be honest. They seem pretty strong. Yeah, like, I have no good read on them. Just because, you know, Kristin and Carter hate each other, then Thien An and Mike kind of hate each other. So that's already two potential options there. I just don't see Thien An or Carter even being voked off ever, really, in this situation, because they do have Maggie. So that's like an inseparable group of people. So if they do sort of attempt to go to rocks, I just feel like Mike is probably going to be the one that chickens out or something like that. It's just going to be – I can see that.

23:29 Just a cluster. Because just the way that they're painting him, I don't know. It's like, what did he do to piss off the editors, frankly? Like, I don't know. But he's not even a villain edit. It's just like, oh, he's wishy-washy. We're not going to edit him unless he needs something. So, yeah, it's not looking good for Mike, I don't think. Yeah. Yeah, so anybody that wants to go check their website out, it is thenullifytakealloneword.com. We are working on this. So we'd love your feedback, actually, on the website. What do you think about it? Leave a comment below for us to know, and we will continue to work on this to make it a bit of a community help for everybody that follow us here on the Nullified Take channel. A bit of a side project that Andre has helped me put together. Andre, thanks for the help last weekend as we put that up. So the more interesting tribe dynamic probably ended up being the Dina tribe here in the early stages with Cristian, Eric, Kilby, Lewis, and Sharonda.

24:26 Lewis, Andre finally gets back up after 24 hours of being sick. So clearly there was something going on there. But it's kind of like a little bit of deja vu with him here, where twice now he's lost key moments in the game early on to make these connections. And for most of the episode, it looked like he was down and out on his luck. He tried a lot of different things here to try and save himself. The biggest one probably being the blood ring that he was trying to sell to Sharonda. What did you think of the attempt? What did you think of Lewis's gameplay here this episode? A couple of episodes ago, we said that he's great playing from the bottom. Do you still believe that? What's your thoughts about Lewis in general? I mean, I absolutely love it. Like, look, the blood ring wasn't the greatest. It was okay. Like, it was, you know, it was a good kind of idea. It didn't obviously work.

25:16 But I think he, to me, reminds me, and maybe this is a hot take, he reminds me a bit of Tony. He reminds me of, like, a proto-Tony, like a young Irish Tony, where he's willing to, like, if you think very early on in Tony's first season, he was playing from the bottom with Trish, right? And he was kind of in the minority, and he just basically, he just worked day and night hard, like, worked, came up with creative angles. And I think this is kind of what Lewis is doing. Like, Lewis is the person that volunteers to go to exile. Lewis, you know, is playing from the bottom. He takes control of the tribe with Carter. He makes really close connections with individuals, and he's able to wrestle power away from majority using creative ways.

26:08 He got very lucky, but I feel like Tony got very lucky as well. Like, Tony was able to find the God Idol. Tony was able to, you know, get some of these really good advantages early on. And when push comes to shove, Tony is willing to, and Lewis is willing to, you know, throw stuff at the wall and just see what sticks. And I think that makes a really good survivor player. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm a little bit sort of quick on the trigger here, but I think all the evidence that we're seeing on Lewis is what my original presumption about him was that he's an active player. And you'd always prefer to have an active player like Lewis and someone like Mike, who is very reactive, right? So I'm very high on Lewis. He's shown, he's shown us twice in two episodes, three episodes, I would say, I would argue in the very first episode too, that he is a very proactive player. And, you know, people like say, you know, it's luck of the Irish, but I think it's luck of Lewis.

26:59 I think he's making his own luck. Yeah, I think the one thing I'll add to that, I agree with everything you say. I do think giving him the high praise of saying like, he's, I know what you mean by the fact that he's like a Tony, he's like a Tony prototype. He's not Tony exactly. There's certain things that makes Tony very unique, a unicorn that has played the game that I don't know if we'll ever see that again on our screens. But I do like the fact that he, I actually, you know what I had, I had, I had more Rick Devens vibes from him in a way, like in the sense that Rick Devens is willing to play with house money. He's willing to play very hard and have fun while playing. I think that's, at this point, unless he gets to the end and wins and he really shows me the emotional connections that he's making, which maybe you're right. He maybe has a bit of a better social game than Rick Devens. Not too sure yet because Rick Devens kind of burns everyone and then just play solo.

27:49 Right. And I don't think like Lewis is doing that. I do like the fact that like Rick Devens and like Christian Hubicki, he's not afraid to play the game. And I kind of got the Christian Hubicki, Rick Devens vibes from him and Kilby this episode playing together. Even though you could say that about Kilby and his main man Alec, sorry, Kilby and Alec basically, because they actually have that connection, the nerdy connection, which Lewis couldn't even relate to in this episode. They had so many phrases and things that he was like, this is going completely over my head. I've got no idea what they're talking about. So I do really like Lewis. I do still think he's a great player playing from the bottom, but was there a whole ton of luck, a ton of luck involved this episode that got them out of the predicament they were in? A hundred percent. Because if Maggie didn't go over there with a boat trip, I don't think Kilby would have put his game on the line for Lewis in this moment.

28:43 And there was just no other move to be made. So any praise that you give to Lewis this episode, I do think you have to give Kilby that praise as well. I do think you've got to give Kilby his flowers because he was the one that was actually at the end of the day, taking the risk with rocks. And sticking to his promise to Lewis that he will go to rocks, when he was probably going to be safe and he is still in a very, like, who are they going to be more upset with in the next episode? Is it going to be Kilby or is it going to be Lewis? I feel like Kilby is going to get a lot of that coming his way. Lewis might be safe. Like, I think Kilby has made himself a bit of a target, which is why the title of this live is, was it worth the risk Andre? And I'd love to know your thoughts on it. Was it worth the risk for Kilby to put his neck on the line here in this moment? Oh, a hundred percent. Like, in fact, it was a no brainer to me. As soon as Maggie came over and said, we've got four votes.

29:37 There is no world that I could ever see Kilby ever turning on Lewis. And I'll tell you why. If they just vote off Lewis and Kilby keeps his extra vote, then under no circumstances is Kilby not the next person that gets voted off. At least if you get the two extra votes, that's all you can, like, I think one of the extra votes you have to use anyway. On that tribal counts, I feel. the other one, I guess you don't have to use straight away, but one of, I would be curious to know which one of them got the extra vote. But either way, Kilby's always going to be the next one voted off. We've seen how tight the Savu four were. Like, if they weren't going to, like, budge one millimeter, they're not, they're never, they're going to get rid of Kilby. no matter how close. And I think they were just setting up for Loverboys to be sort of like, this is the, oh, maybe there's a bit of a chance.

30:31 I don't think that's a serious contention for, a real alliance going forward, especially after we saw Eric basically turn his back on Kilby. So if you are, if you're Lewis, you almost want to be the target as soon as you get those extra votes because you're not the one drawing rocks. So you are giving it out to Kilby. I guess there's maybe motivation that Lewis is maybe a little bit more motivated not to pull rocks than Kilby. So there might be some there and say, Hey, Kilby, we'll try to direct votes to you. So you're, so you're saying, but that's over playing. Right. So I think. So do you like, do you like this move from, you're liking this move from Kilby. You think this was the right move here in this moment for him? he had the right read, like, cause Kilby comes across as a, as a player.

31:22 Who he talks a lot. He's quite social. You could easily mistaken for someone that's not all that strategic and a bit all over the place. Yeah. But ultimately I think Kilby is emerging as a bit of a player here. Like, could, does he have longevity in this game? Because, you know, if he didn't make like, he was in a, between a rock and a hard place here as well. If you think about it, because Maggie literally gave them all the weapons, all the ammunitions to take this other tribe down and to gun after someone that she wanted, which is another thing. And when we're talking about, bringing back Sarah's comment here, she mentioned, she was referring to women being voted out with a comment earlier. it's been women gunning for women in this game. And Maggie wanted to take out, who was it that they ended up taking out there at the end? Linnea. Linnea, yeah. So Maggie had a big, like, she was a bit of an MVP this specific round as well.

32:13 We'll talk about her in a little bit, but you'll like this from Kilby. You're thinking Kilby, because in my mind, you can't give Lewis all the credit. You've got to say this was a duo effort here and Kilby really, he followed through. And again, the odds was in his favor. It was a one out of four chance that he was going to pull the rock where the other had a, what, a three out of four chance or something that it's going to be one of them. So it was always in his favor for each one of them. Yeah. On token, Lewis and Carter, put their games on the line for Kilby. Like they explicitly protected Kilby and that's lived experience. That's this true point that I like Lewis is with Kilby. Eric is Eric. There's been zero proof that Eric is actually with Kilby. Yeah. Sure. They like how's the moving castle together. Who cares when it comes to actually, when Robert meets the road, when you're writing down the name, like that is the, that's the, all the proof that you need.

33:07 So, yeah, Lewis was down and out for 24 hours cause he was sick. I mean, I, so what's important is that they are both, they obviously spoke about it because they obviously were trolling Linnea. They were obviously planned to miss, write her name before, beforehand. Like it was a performative thing. They were definitely in it together. so then we obviously didn't see that conversation cause obviously as viewers, you want to have a little bit of suspense and you want to be a little bit shocked and surprised where it turns out that they go to rocks and you want to show as much, waffling from Kilby as possible. And we saw a lot of waffling. That was just editing. We all know that Kilby at the end of the day, really planned this out with Lewis. So that makes me think that they are closer than we actually saw. And with Kilby just, you know, throwing Lewis under the bus as much, I mean, that probably could have been for a couple of days earlier as well.

34:02 So very strong play from both of them. I think it was a no brainer personally, because they would have been on the outs anyway, at least now they've got a chance. At least they could probably try to sway Eric, or they can probably say, Hey, you know, like come with us. I think Tokas still have the numbers. So I think now the pitch is Savu. Savu is fairly weak. I think how many Savu players are there left? Like six. Yeah. And there's like, there's nine Tokas, I think I want to say something around that, but it's great play that they were, they made the connection with Maggie, that Maggie was willing to do this. and I think there's a culture between Savu and, Savu and Toka. Savu is kind of like, we're old school, strong, Savu and Toka's like, we're chaos. And to me, I just see Toka, I see the winner coming from Toka, frankly. I love the chaos. Savu is the boring. Yeah. I want, I want the chaos to reign supreme.

34:53 And we will talk about Maggie in a little bit here, I promise, but I just want to stay on this tribal council, which, we need to marinate on this tribal council. We don't get these kinds of tribal councils happening very often. Like Dreadful Ruby says here, this was such a fantastic tribal council. At least he almost guaranteed a callback for other shows. So probably talking about Kilby and I think Lewis here in this moment, Camilla saying, congratulations on the new website. Thank you so much, Camilla. We appreciate that. also saying Lewis had such a close call, having someone as loyal as Kilby in his corner really saved him. I'm excited to see what he does with his second chance. And they're saying Kilby refusing to back down completely changed my opinion of him. Four people had the majority and he still made them panic. That trouble was so satisfying. And this is where I wanted to marinate in this tribal council. Andre, we are high praise for Kilby and for Lewis in this moment.

35:47 Let's talk about those that fell on the other side of this vote. We need to talk about Cristian, Eric and Sharonda and specifically how they were putting this pressure on Kilby saying, Hey, Lewis would never have done this for you. He's going to cost you your game. And they were so bullish. They were so confident, the bravado and them taking on the underdog Kilby in this moment. And then as soon as Colby, stone cold said to Jeff Probst, I'm not changing. You could just see Cristian, the panic in his face, him almost crying at that point, talking to Sharonda and to Eric saying, what do you guys want to do? I don't want to go to rocks. Like you could just see the fear. There's levels to survivor Andre and there's different types of players in survivor. And I think this showed us who's the cream that rises to the top and who's at the bottom at this stage, because this was a fearful gameplay. And I think Sharonda in a different environment, I do still rate Sharonda.

36:39 I think she maybe would have still had the guts to play or stick it out. But Cristian and Eric was never going to do that. And I think that puts Sharonda in a place where she had to go with them. What was your thoughts about the other side of this tribal council? And how do you see these players? Like, is there a way for these players to recover in the game at the moment? Like after losing an ally such as Linnea in this specific episode? Yeah. I mean, once you get to that situation, you're pretty much screwed either way. Cause it's like, there's no way that you can, I mean, there's a 75% chance you're going to lose that and you're what you're risking your game for Linnea. Like who cares? You see, you met her, you met her seven days ago. Like it's irrelevant. So there's a couple of ways you can deal with it. Right. The first way you can deal with it is like the way that Spencer did it in second chances where it's like, they were going to go, I think they were going to go rocks in like final six, I think.

37:31 And so it's like, oh, we're not going to like, we're not going to like, she's not, she's off the table and she's like completely outright dismiss it. You're like, sorry. And if you're like, kill me, you just, you just do that. But I think the way that Kilby did it was very good socially. If you're on the other side though, you almost, if I was someone like, if I was, if there's disagreement there, all you need to do is you need, just need to be the one holdout. If I was Cristian, like I, it's clear that Eric and Sharonda were like, they didn't want to go to rocks. They didn't want to go to rocks. And Cristian's like, I'm actually willing to go to rocks. I think Cristian should have, like we've seen Cristian's edit. It's been very milquetoast. He's been not a character. He clearly has some power and some agency in that, in that tribe. We just haven't seen any of it because he's boring.

38:22 If I was Cristian, I would have actually forced rocks. Yeah. I mean like. Cause they had to be unanimous. Yeah. It would have trashed my game with three people, but I think. He would have been memorable. He would have been memorable. If you want to be, if you want to play with the big guns, if you've got someone like Lewis, if you've got someone like Kilby that are playing well, like Sharonda is playing very well. She's playing very under the radar. She's playing very well. Eric's maybe not so much, but if you want to, if you want to play with the, with the big guns, you got to do something big. So that makes me think that, look, Eric is spineless in that situation. Sharonda just did what was smart. I get it. But with Cristian, I didn't understand Cristian. If he did, if he was really close to the Savu, it's like, look, I don't care guys. Like this is, this is Savu 4. I'm willing to die on the sword for it.

39:14 Let's go. Let's go. And then I think people would respect him in the same way that they respect Kilby. Like all of a sudden, everybody hated Kilby and now everybody loves Kilby, at least in the audience. I think one of the things about Survivor, right? And it's easier said than done. We're sitting on the sidelines. We appreciate that. We're not out there playing the game. It's high stakes poker, basically with a million dollars on the line, or who knows, maybe even $2 million if someone flips the coin and gets the extra million dollars this season. But you almost need to go in there thinking that you're playing with house money immediately the first time you play, which is clearly what Kilby and Lewis is doing, right? Because the reality is that one out of 21 people are going to win this game. The rest of them are all going to be losers. If you're second, third, it doesn't matter. But the one thing you want to be is memorable, right? Like you don't want to go... You want to be Rick Devens. Yeah, you want to be memorable. Even if you go...

40:04 There are certain players that have gone out in the game pre-merge that we still look at back and say, what if? And you'd rather almost be that than somebody that got to the end and ended up getting a purple edit, was inconsequential, didn't have any kind of agency in the game, didn't try and force their moves, right? Because more often than not, the player, like you mentioned this in the beginning with someone like Lewis, the person who goes to Exile Island, the person who takes the risk, more often than not, gets deep in the game. More often than not, the producers probably don't influence the game as much. But if there's an opportunity to create a narrative around you or build you up as a character, they'll do that, right? Because you're actually someone who's giving them a show at the end of the day. So yeah, I just wanted to dive into your thoughts around those players that ended up folding in this moment. And you quite rightfully called out, Cristian was the one who was willing to actually, it seemed like he was willing to go where the other two didn't.

40:56 I think even the EV, higher EV play, if you think about it, generally speaking, what chance does Cristian have actually winning the game? Either way. So it's like, you're taking a 25% chance risk of going home. Fair enough. That is a, there's a reasonable risk. It's 25%. Yeah. My question is, does your percentage chance of winning, like maybe Cristian's chance of winning was 2%. What if it doubles to 4%? That's a higher EV play, right? Yeah. So it's like, you're probably going to get a little bit more respect. It's going to be, if you make it to the end, you have a better chance of saying, look, this is what happened with rocks. I forced rocks. That was me. That was the move that I made. That probably doubles your chance of winning immediately. Yes, you're taking 25% chance play, but like, I think anybody that's sort of playing poker knows that you need to take those types of plays. Like, Survivor's kind of like a one-off, or if you're really lucky, you can come back, you know, two or three times, but generally over time, you want to take the EV play.

41:53 So you get the advantage of being memorable, and you probably have, like, maybe when I numbers are wrong, maybe there is any, there's zero chance of Cristian winning. I don't know what that exactly is, but from the couch, I think that Cristian should have done that. I mean, even, but it only works if he's the one holdout. If they all agree to go to rocks, then it's like, it kind of nullifies that. But as soon as Eric and Sharonda are like, oh no, we kind of want to just convert out Linnea, all of a sudden, you're Cristian, you hold out, you go to rocks, Eric and Sharonda goes, you're very close with Nia, because you put your, you put your rocks on the line. And not just that, you legitimately, because, you know, there's this moment in Survivor, Heroes vs. Villains, where Russell was willing to play his idol on poverty early in the game, right, to save her in that moment, where other people looked at that and said, well, if Russell's willing to play his idol on his ally, like Jerri Manthey, for instance, went over to his side, driving the Boston Rob side, because she was like, I want someone to be willing to play an idol on me as well in this game.

42:58 I want that kind of loyalty from an ally. And I think Cristian could have used that, where if he survived that vote, Linnea's safe, one of the other three goes, probably in his, and in that case, it probably would have been better for him to lose as Sharonda or an Eric, potentially. He could go to, he could go to Lewis and Kilby. If Kilby gets rocked out, then it's like, guys, I told you. Yeah, we just, but either way, he would have had it. He would have had, like, because, you know, in Survivor, it's easy to talk a big game, but it's hard to show it, but when you've shown loyalty to that level and you can go to future allies and say, I was willing to put my game on the line for my ally. And I'm telling you now, Andre, you weren't with me on that vote. You know, you could have been against me, but let's band together. I will do the same for you. I am loyal to the soil. You saw what I was willing to do at that tribal council.

43:48 And I saw what you guys were willing to do for each other. Like Kilby and Lewis would have connected to that in some way. I feel like there was an angle to play there. So I agree with you. We're very results focused, but maybe there was a bigger gameplay and he could have stolen the show from Kilby and from Lewis because people would have said, wow, Kilby and Lewis were so bold. But then Cristian would have just dunked on that and said, well, I'm even bolder. I'm even going down even further here. And we may have, Cristian may have been the hero of the episode. He could have been the person or he could have been the fool. Like, let's be honest. Like if he went home, everybody would have been, what a dumb play. Should have just not done that. He should have kept himself safe. You know, we would have been very results focused. I don't even think that's the case. I think that people would think of him like a JT in Heroes vs. Villains. Like, yeah, he's dumb, but actually there's that counterpoint that actually, I think it's quite common to say actually what JT did was- People like you and me, Andre, would think about him in that way.

44:38 But unfortunately, the casual fan out there, the average viewer of Survivor would have just been like, nah, it's a dumb play. You know, like there's still a lot of people who still think JT that is a buffoon after and that token cheese was lost. I think Tyson, I think Tyson's a better example in Blood vs. Water because he was the one that forced rocks and he ended up winning because of that. Maybe that's results orientated thinking, but I think that sort of having your way, I think Kilby has a much greater chance of winning because he had that gumption to go to rocks. I think that's a winning path to make. And if you are the person that falls in a rock situation, I think you can't recover from that. Like that is, you tank your EV, you tank any chance of winning because nobody's going to respect that. Dreadful Ruby here says, I was so worried, but immediately let it be known, like he immediately let it be known it is them to flip rocks.

45:34 Camilla saying, I understand why they didn't want to draw rocks, but watching Linnea's allies sacrifice was brutal. Your alliance feels pretty solid until everyone has to risk their own game. That's true. Sarah says, awesome news about the website. I love it. Kilby and Lewis were amazing this episode. I can't wait for next week already. It was that good. And then Randy with a Y says, Linnea and Alex could have taken the layup and voted out a man, Eric or Eric, I think it's Eric with an E instead of Anna, who wasn't a big threat. Yeah. I think it's been interesting this season. Like it's somehow it's just ended up under with a bunch of women going out, but it's also been largely driven by females. I feel like in these votes, voting out the other females in the game, it's been, it's been cutthroat. And I think it's because we mentioned it earlier that a lot of the men are kind of a mess at the moment strategically.

46:27 And there are kind of wild cards where the women are just that much more strategic and cutthroat. And they're just taking out other women in the game that they potentially think are also a threat to them. That's kind of how I'm seeing it. But let's talk about the whole Maggie of it all here. You know, Maggie ends up going on the boat. Brady said, this is the worst thing that could have happened. But in my mind, I was thinking at that moment, this is the best thing that could have happened because Maggie is very quickly becoming my favorite player in this game because she brings chaos and she's willing to roll the dice. She's willing to do something. You know, if you, two episodes ago, I was like, what is it with this woman, Maggie, that is so paranoid that she needs to force Brady to give her this advantage in this moment. But it actually clearly had a really positive effect on Maggie's game here where she was able to go to this tribe, talk to people individually to gauge what the feeling of the tribe is or the temperature of the tribe, and then deciding, I'm going to go all in with my allies here.

47:23 I'm giving them both of my advantages. You have to give her as much credit as you give Lewis and Kilby in this moment because she was willing to, in a large way, sacrifice a bit of her game here as well. She doesn't have, like, they always say it's better for you to have the advantages in your hand than in someone else's hand. But she prioritized allies and numbers over her own game in this moment, which I thought for a player that is seen as a wild card, that was actually a very sensible and logical thing to do in this moment. And a lot of other players would not have done this. And why are we taking Brady's word that she's a wild card? Like, I've actually seen, I've seen her outplay Brady over and over again. I've seen her take the, like, convince Brady to give the extra vote to her. I've seen her vote out Brady's allies twice. I've seen her, you know, she didn't win out the draw, but Brady didn't put in his shot in the dark to be drawn.

48:16 He needed food too much. So it's like, Brady, put up or shot up. Like, if you want it to go, you should have put it in or try to maybe force your way into it, but he didn't do that. So, and like, also kudos, and I will give actually not so much rare these days, but credit to the producers that the only reason this was able to happen was because of the one more twist at the very start of the season. Maggie was like, I don't like Linnea for whatever reason. Maybe she didn't get a good vibe from her. Who knows? I need her out. And she was able to flex the advantages that she earned. She was the one that was hacking at the, at the ore. She was the one that gave up political capital to get it off Brady. She was the one that said, I'm going to go, I'm going to, I have one in three chants. She got a little bit lucky that producers decided to put that into it, but she ended up, at the end of the day, she ended up earning it.

49:12 And I refuse to believe like Brady or any other commentators say, oh, she's wishy-washy or anything like that. I didn't see her as wishy-washy. I see her standing by her alliances. I see her, okay. She did target another woman. And that's like, in this season, that's probably seen as like, why the hell did she do it? But she's there. She's there right now. And she actually experienced, maybe she got a really bad vibe from Linnea. I'm not entirely sure. so, you know, I quite like her. I think that, I don't think she's going to win because she hasn't had good at it, but, I think that just, it just plays into the whole culture of Toka. Like everybody on Toka is insane or everybody from the original Toka are insane. And like, I want them, I want them on every single season. I think that it's, this is like the classic, like, Casaya type of dysfunction where they're all playing really hard.

50:04 They're all crazy. They're all playing the game. They'll hate each other in a, in a certain way. And it's like, it's really entertaining. So I want, I really enjoy it. Like every, like even the fact that, you know, dreadful Ruby here is saying, I really can't stand Brady and his Brody thing. The Brody thing definitely annoys me as well. It's like, he can't stop using the word Brody's or Brody even calls Jeff Brody every single time. Can you imagine if he does become the host of Survivor and being come on in Brody's? Like, I think people would tune out, like they will not watch that. I take back my endorsement earlier in the season or my analysis. He had a very bad, he had a bad episode. He had a bad episode. Yeah. And I still like, he still has a role to play that villainous, big buffoon, loud mouth player that a lot of other people that watch the show will probably want to see Brady's downfall. And it's going to be satisfying at some point, but I'm still enjoying him as a player, but I'm definitely pro Maggie.

50:56 I'm similar to you. I'm on Maggie's side here. I don't see this crazy, irrational player that Brody is seeing out there or Brady is seeing out there. I see a player who went over to the other tribe, had the emotional intelligence to take players away from camp one-on-one to have deep conversations with them about where do you sit in the game? And then I see her having enough emotional awareness or like social game to actually get those players to tell her the truth and not lie to her in that moment, right? Because they could have easily said, nah, we're actually getting along with Kilby. We're thinking about taking out one of our own players in the game. And maybe that would have been the right move for the likes of a Cristian and Eric and the Sharonda to do and a Linnea at this moment, because you need to be thinking to yourself, this player coming over has got something, right? Like, why is this player coming here? Like, they've got some sort of a power and none of them clocked onto that for some other reason, Andre.

51:47 Is this like another really negative thing for both or for all three of them that now survived to say you couldn't even pick up the fact that Maggie was coming over with some firepower? No, I think that Kilby admitted that he had to get extra votes that put them off. After she left. Yeah, I guess after she left. But I think that they knew that they knew there was another shoe to drop there. And when Kilby said, look, I've got an extra vote. But my point, my point and good on Kilby for doing that, because it took the I think that was a good play by Kilby as well, by the way, because it just made them feel more comfortable because two votes is not strong enough for them to have the power to do anything. But my thinking was prior to Kilby revealing he got this advantage of two votes, shouldn't they have clocked on to the fact that she was coming with something and that maybe they should have lied to her in that moment to say that there is cracks in the tribe so that she wouldn't want to give that to the players that she's with?

52:39 Maybe they thought there's no point because Maggie is clearly going to be closer to Kilby and Lewis. Like, I may have answered my own question there. I mean, what else? What other like if you're a Kilby or Lewis, what other like would you make that Maggie came over with like an idol? That wouldn't really make sense. No. I'm thinking from the loser's perspective. In this case, I'm thinking from Sharonda, Eric and Linnea and like, should they have lied to Maggie in that moment and said, we're not as tight? We're not as tight as you think. Like, I feel like they missed a beat here by not knowing that Maggie's probably coming over with something. So anything that they could have done to give her false information would have surely been better than saying both Kilby and Lewis is sitting ducks at the moment. I don't think that would have worked either way because Maggie's always going to talk to Lewis and Kilby and you're more likely to believe Lewis and Kilby, their version of events rather than you've never met before, right?

53:32 Especially Linnea, which clearly she hates Linnea. So yeah, I don't think there's any situation where if Maggie had something, she wouldn't, she wouldn't give it to those two. So you kind of have to take for granted that Maggie will always give the minority. That's why she chose to go to that tribe. She knew I'm very close with Kilby. I'm very close with Lewis. They need something. My question though, was should they have it granted that they were going to get something? Should they have lied about what they got? Should they just say, well, we've just got an idol. Cause if you say we've got an idol, but we don't know who we're going to play it on, that will force the four to split their votes. Then they would only need to use one extra vote. But then it's like, you wouldn't give away that you've got an idol because it would be useless in that situation that they could split the votes.

54:25 So it's kind of like, it's, you kind of one up each other on the lies. So it's like, it starts off with like, do you lie to Maggie? No. Okay. Do you lie about what Maggie gives us? No. Therefore, let's just tell the truth. So I can see the logic on why it occurred the way that it occurred. Yep. Kamala here says, I love Maggie at the other tribes, tribal council. Those extra votes really helped Lewis. She deserves more credit for it than what she got. Dreadful Ruby is saying, Oh Lord, who are you thinking at this point for the host? yeah. Like who are still left in the game? That could be a good host at this stage. Like, I don't, I don't see it. I do not see what Jeff is putting down. I'm not picking up what Jeff is putting down in regards to the host at this stage. Cause who's got the charisma to take over from the season. Like, I mean, there's, they're all likable players in some ways or dislikable players in other ways, and I am enjoying them as a cast of players, but I don't know if I see a host in the people that we've got left in this game at the moment.

55:22 Could it be Kristin? Cause it can't be, it can't be, I can't see anyone else. I just don't see it for Cristian even. Like she's too, she's, I don't know, maybe this is a hot take, but Cristian to me comes across as quite bland. Like I think she's, I think she's a very, yeah, I think she's a good player in a lot of ways. And she's socially aware that, but she doesn't have the personality. I don't think to be a host of the show. Like the only big personalities we really have still in the game is like a Devin or like a Brady or who else Lewis, like the Irish accent probably wouldn't work. I don't know. It also seems maybe a little bit too young. I'm not sure. Oh yeah. No, it's hard. It could. Please not Eric. Can you imagine Eric being the host? I might kill me. Oh no, I don't know. I just, yeah. Dreadful Ruby. I'm with you. I'm a bit fearful.

56:13 I don't know. But Jeff hasn't had the best takes in the last couple of seasons since the new era. So I don't know if I would take anyone he endorses, to be honest, can't be Brady. No one on this cast comes close to at least a handful of previous players, but Jeff is Jeff. That's true. Jeff as a host is untouched. You know, when we just talk about him being a host, only not the executive producer, creative director of the show. Randy with a Y says, Maggie has a winner's edit along with possibly Lewis and Sharonda. Very interesting calls there on Maggie because I just feel like I don't see Maggie. Yeah. I just don't think Maggie has had a big enough edit from the start, but then again, they could be throwing us off this season. They might not edit it the same way that they've done in other seasons. I mean, somebody that you thought had a really good chance of being the winner, edit Andre last week, you said Carter was starting to go.

57:03 But Carter had a typical cool down episode, right? Like he's been a, he was a ghost. He was a, he just disappeared this episode, but I think we didn't even get a confessional. Yeah, it look, it's a different type of situation when they start off as a ghost, but if they have a cool down episode in the middle, that's more acceptable. Like that's not disqualifying to me. I just, I just feel like a Sharonda is pretty high out there because like she was on the wrong side of the vote draw, but you also saw that she was like, the way they portrayed her was like the only sane one in that group. Yeah. So only one that like, they didn't portray her as like having no spine with Eric, no spine. So I think, and she's obviously playing the best game out there, or at least the best old school low key game.

57:57 But in a season of full of like, frankly, psychos, especially the pokers, you kind of, you kind of want like a Tony type of win. I feel like, okay, let's, it's prime for that. Okay. Speed run on this. Let's throw a couple of names out there. I'll go first and say who I think has got the best edit so far to take the season and, be a winner. I feel like episode after episode, we need to start tallying this, that it is changing quite a bit. And that is the showing of a good season or the evidence of a good season. When you go in episode after episode and the editing in my mind, I don't feel bullish beyond like giving, I wouldn't give anyone more than a 50% like a probability of winning the season at this stage. I don't think that there's a clear 20%, frankly. Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to be very clear when I, when I endorse these players that next week, it might change again, but I'm looking at players that have had visibility every single episode because since season 41, they have made sure to always give the winner some sort of an edit every single episode or keep them relevant in people's minds at least.

59:03 And there is not that many players that every single episode we've seen something from them. So for that reason, and because of the backstory this week, Ori is one of my top three that I think has got a shot at winning this season. And also to your point that they're editing him in a very positive way. They're not showing some of the negative side of things where maybe Jelly doesn't connect with him as well as we thought. And they're making it look like he's making inroads there. So I think Ori is more likely Jelly and Devin have been very prominent in all the early episodes here, but for some other reason, similar to you, I think Devin is a big character. I don't dislike Jelly at all. I think Jelly is playing a decent game at this stage. So she's someone that I could put in there. And especially if Ori goes deep, I think Jelly could go far there. But I, for some other reason, just don't see winner for both Jelly and Devin. So I'm going to exclude them, even though we've seen a lot of confessionals from them because they've just gone to tribal council so often that I think the story has kind of followed them around.

59:57 But Ori has sort of been prominent, even in times where they haven't gone to tribal council. Like I remember there was a specific Toka episode where they had to vote out and Ori still got a confessional, he still had to give his opinion about something there. So to me, that's like a, my spider senses is tingling. I'm thinking Ori is one of those people. Then when I have to look at the rest of the tribes there, I do, I feel like Lewis is just, Lewis and Kilby both consistently in the story. But like, do I give them the endorsement? If I had to put between them, if I had to put between them, I'll go Lewis between the two of them, potentially. The reason I say Lewis is interesting that they focused so much on him being sick last episode. They didn't need to do that. Like it was irrelevant whether or not Lewis was sick or not. And I guess it could have tied into this episode, like, ah, Lewis was sick and he rebounded really well.

1:00:48 Well, they're telling that story for a reason. So I would probably endorse Lewis over Kilby for that particular instance. So I'll go Ori, I'll go Ori, Lewis, and is that a bad winner? Like, frankly? I think it's too early to call. I really do think it's too early to call because, sorry, like I always say, the pre-merge to me is forgettable in a lot of seasons. It's what you do post-merge that ultimately, in my mind, determines who wins the season. A lot of people forget the pre-merge. I just don't see Ori doing anything. Frankly, it's like he has, he's playing a good social game and we've got good social winners, but like, what social wins have we had? If Ori wins, it's a bad win. It's a bad, you convince me, if Ori wins, it's a bad win based on what we've seen so far, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he could still do something.

1:01:43 But I do think the edit is, like, my list of who I would like to win is very different from who I think is going to win. At this point, I say Ori, Lewis, and if I had to choose someone from Toka at this stage, it's a very hard one. I don't see Carter like you did, but I mean, he could connect back with Lewis and do something there. But I tell you what, the editing is starting to get me around on Thien An. Like, I feel like Thien An could be a sleeper pick for a winner as well. Even though I just earlier said Thien An might lose the battle against Mike, you kind of convinced me otherwise in this episode. And maybe you're right. Maybe it's that obvious. And Thien An is someone that could be a power player. Why Thien An over Carter? Why would we choose somebody that had a very weak first couple of episodes versus somebody that had just one weak episode this week? I think that Carter has gone the opposite way, where he was kind of very visible in the beginning, had his connections, and now has started to disappear, where Thien An has gone the opposite way.

1:02:39 So you could count them out for both different reasons. But Thien An, to me, between Carter and Thien An seems, and this is what makes me worried about her, but I want to give her credit for the type of game she's playing. She seems to be the more strategic one out of the two, right? So that Carter will defer a lot of the strategy to her. The only thing is when Lewis and Carter gets back together, will Lewis be able to influence Carter more than Thien An? And I think he probably will. I feel like there's a strong connection there. I see it's going to be a very strong, like, five-person alliance up against, like, the helicopter alliance. And so I feel like those are going to be the two. Like, I think last season we had, like, Colby's crew and the Devin's crew. And it turns out the winner was from when he came in the middle. But I just see, like, Thien An, Carter, Lewis, Kilby, and Maggie kind of being a power sort of five with, like, the helicopter alliance.

1:03:33 That they're obvious. Like, it's super obvious that those three are together. And then it's only a matter of time until they realize that Sharon is with them as well. And it's just going to be a matter of time. But those three can pull in Brady, can pull in Kristin, potentially. They've got those tentacles. And with Brady comes Mike. So I feel like there's, like, if they don't, coming back to Thien An, she's probably got the right read here. For the next episode, to keep their numbers strong, I'm never pro throwing a challenge. But I almost feel like Toka Yellow, the current Toka Yellow, needs to throw the next one to go to Tribal Council to get rid of Mike. But I don't think they know about these connections. That's the problem. The helicopter alliance is not obvious to anyone that's not watching the edited show. And they probably won't be sitting there thinking. So I think they could easily be lured into thinking that the original Toka tribe has got numbers right now.

1:04:28 Think about who's on the other side. You've got an Eric, you've got a Sharonda, and then you've got a Cristian who have no inrones at all with the Tokas at all. So you would probably be thinking those are pretty strong. And then you've got, you've probably got an Ori as well, that you would just kind of assume that now Ori's with Devin and with Jelly. And then you know that Devin's with Brady, right? So then all of a sudden it kind of like coagulates in a way where there are really clearly divided lines here. You've got a strong vibe that have shown that they're together. And then you've got kind of like all the people that have kind of like lost out on the votes that kind of might be able to... The question is, could they be cohesive? Because they haven't really played much together. It's just a matter of circumstances.

1:05:19 It's kind of proven that Thien An and Carter and Kilby and Lewis and Maggie all play very well together. They're chaotic, but they're able to share their advantage. They're able to share their information. They're actually very strong despite them being on quite chaotic tribal councils. I think that has made them sharper, especially when you have people that have played very, like a lot. We see this a lot with like the disaster tribes. The disaster tribes often like go through a lot of adversity, a lot of hardship. They come out on top and then it's just like minority and they're able to just basically divide and conquer. And we've seen that all along since Malcolm Denise, right? That they've had like the tribal council experience and they've had the advanced experience. I think that they could come out on top and I think it could be just like, they could just whittle down until you've got the core of the helicopter alliance. And then it becomes a real battle, right? Because the helicopter alliance are a very formidable opponent in this particular instance.

1:06:15 One thing, one thing I think that I'm very interested to see how it plays out, especially if Cristian, if that Dina tribe does not go back to tribal council again and that tribe stays intact, we still have both Kilby and Lewis in that tribe. I want to see where Eric lands. I feel like Eric could be a little bit of a kingmaker in a lot of ways where we saw this relationship develop between Kilby and Eric. Eric was clearly saying with his first tribe, he wasn't connecting on that social level. And with Kilby, it feels like home. It just, you can just tell that these guys will be best mates outside of the game. And they just have so much that they've got in common. They speak their own language. I couldn't follow what they were saying. I was similar to Lewis. I was lost. I don't know if you were able to follow all the references that they were mentioning up there. Maybe half of them, yeah. Okay, half of them. I was lost, right? So, but they clearly have this very deep connection. So, you know, where's Eric going to land is my big question.

1:07:08 Is Eric that close to, I don't feel like Eric and Cristian for some other reason are that close and I would have thought they both come across as a bit of the NERGI archetype. I feel like Eric and Sharonda are closer than we think. Cause they think that's similarly. Yeah. I feel like Eric's probably going to be a scorned ex when it comes to Kilby. I think that he's going to be like, look, you, yes, you stabbed me in the heart. I'm never going to work with you again. And he's probably going to be probably more entrenched with the helicopter lines via Sharonda. Yeah. Where does, I don't, I don't know where Cristian lies then, because it's like, then he comes in an Island and he seemed to be, it, to me, it seemed like he was a glue to keep the Savus all together. And if he all of a sudden becomes kind of, you know, on an Island, then I think everything just starts to fall apart. And it becomes, it would get, it becomes less entrenched in on Toka versus Savu.

1:07:59 It becomes more like who plays well with who. Yeah. Randy here has a question. When will Carter play his Idol? I don't think Carter will play his Idol until the merge at some stage. I just don't think he's in a bad position anytime soon. So I think that's a good thing to remember that he still has an Idol in his pocket that he can play at any stage. And then also Jelly still has an Idol. If Icar skates this five and he plays the Idol, he gets wind on who they're dumping their votes on, he plays that Idol. I could see that being relevant. Yeah. And one thing I just want to point out as well, just before we start wrapping things up here, Andre, is that Dina still has an Idol, I think, on their beach that has not been found. And I thought that Lewis was going to sniff out that he was in a bad spot. He wasn't going to make inroads with his blood Idol that he was trying to play, which, by the way, I love the idea of it.

1:08:53 Like if he didn't show Cristian his Idol earlier in the game and saying that your destiny is now tied to me for two or three votes, that is a scary thing for someone to take a risk on. And you could tell that Sharonda was worried, even though she didn't see the parchment, which she asked for, she was still, what if I end up getting voted out with this kid? You know, I don't want my game to go down with him. So I thought it was a really good attempt by him, but obviously it wasn't going to work. So ultimately, I thought Lewis was going to go out hunting for that Idol. Tony likes style. That was impressive. She's like, I trust you. And she said that to his face. It's like, I trust you less now. Yeah. And I thought that was like, that was a very good read on Sharonda. If it was anybody other than Sharonda, I think it may have worked. Like if he tried that on like Eric probably would have like, you know. But I thought she said that, but then she still went around, panicked afterwards. And it was only when Cristian said, hey, I saw that ring day one.

1:09:43 And he explained to me what it was that I felt like she was like a hundred percent convinced. Because I do think, I think there was doubt in her mind. That's what I'm trying to say. I don't think she was like. I didn't even understand Cristian's point. Like if Cristian sees a ring, it's like, oh, what's that ring? And then it's like, you're just going to make something up. It's like, oh yeah, no, it's an Irish thing. It's like, oh, it's a wedding band or something like that. It's just like. Exactly. Lewis could have recovered from that. He could have recovered. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But I think just. Without a, without a parchment, there was like kind of different works. I think even like all the Australian survivors say the same thing. It's like, it's not, it isn't, it doesn't exist unless there is a parchment attached to it because you can't forge a parchment. Yeah, that's true. One thing I wanted to touch on as well, before we finish up here, you and I spoke about this a little bit off here, but I wanted to bring it back up on the podcast as well, because I thought it's a great topic to talk about.

1:10:38 We had poverty on Tyson's podcast over the last week. And, she mentioned when he asked, would you ever come back and play the game? Would you play survivor US again? She said, no, she doesn't feel like she's got much to prove anymore. but he said, what if it was like for a ridiculous amount of money, like 5 million or something? Imagine they keep flipping the coin until the next all-stars. And there's like a big $5 million plot on the line. And she said, no, just because of how the survivor team or production team. And I think she was strongly alluding to Jeff here because we know Jeff doesn't like, I feel like there's this power struggle between Jeff and the players has been there for a long time. But she said, no, because when they go and play the show over in the US, they kind of make you feel like you're lucky to get this opportunity rather than saying, we are lucky to have you. And thank you for making the show a thing, which is how she felt when she played other shows such as traitors and Australian survivors.

1:11:32 So she didn't count out the fact that she could potentially be convinced to go back to another show like Australian survival traitors or something like that in the future. What's your thoughts on that? Like, what's your thoughts when you get legends of the game, such as poverty and Tyson and Tyson agreeing with her, by the way, on this as well, sort of saying this, like, it's not great for the show. Like, I know we probably have seen a lot of poverty. We've seen a lot of Tyson and a lot of people would say we're done seeing these old school players play the game. But I mean, it's always good to see them come back for big marquee seasons, like season 60, get the legends back on the show. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? What's your, what's your thoughts on it? Well, I think it's a good thing. Like, I understand where poverty is coming from. She is a legend of the game. But at the same time, it's like, she is, like, everybody kind of wants to see her, but even though we've seen her, seen her before.

1:12:23 To be honest, I would rather see people that, I get, I get where Jeff's going, because Jeff is Jeff. Jeff is arrogant. Rightfully so, though. Like, Survivor is the premiere reality TV show again. I, you know, I would much prefer to see players that have played maybe twice before, rather than poverty game personally. Because I feel like I've seen everything from poverty. We don't need to see her for an eighth time, whatever, because we have deal on it in a lion traders. We have like five seasons of her on Survivor. We don't really need to see her again. And it's like, it's kind of like clash of egos in a way, because it's like Jeff and poverty. It's like poverty is a legend. Jeff is a legend too. And it's like, kind of like, it should be more neutral. It'd be like, you know, it should be a mutual, you know, we'd love to have you back. I'd love to be back. I'll prefer that.

1:13:14 It just, it just seems like it's the opposite way. It's like, oh, you know, you're lucky to come back to Survivor. And poverty is like, well, you're lucky to have me. It's like, do we really want to be like, you know, feeding into this? It's like, I would rather have Jeff say, we'd love to see Devin's back. And Devin's be like, I'd love to come back. You know, that's the kind of energy that I prefer to have rather than legends being, legends just fighting with Jeff. It's like, you know, would Australian Survivor have been better without poverty on that season? It would have been more competitive. Maybe it would have been better. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe that's a hot take. Yeah, she steamrolled. Yeah, exactly. But also you gave her Sari in the same season, on the same tribe. Like, I mean, you definitely had a built-in alliance day one, but she also needed that in some ways.

1:14:04 Like, it's tough. It's probably... It was an inherently unfair season, to be fair. Yeah. It was just structured to be unfair too. I think it was like more women, like now they're on the topic, right, of this season, women being voted off. But she was on a season where there was an inherent sort of difference in gender splits as well. So there was like different circumstances there. It was a very small season, a very short season. It was fun. And she had a lot of advance. She had a lot of connections already. But I don't know. Like, if it was like last season with Jeff, and maybe season, I want to say maybe season 60. Maybe that's his last season. It's going to be the best of the best. Don't have to be a winner. You know, all of the greats. Then, yeah, I'd love to see Parvati back. But if she wasn't back on that season, I probably wouldn't feel bad about it, to be honest.

1:14:58 Yeah, I agree with you. I know it so much, yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. Unless it's at that winners at war level, legends, all proven great game players coming back to play the show. I'm okay if it's her last time playing the game. I do think a lot of this. I'd rather see a pre-merge season, frankly, if I'm being honest. Yeah. I do think a lot of this beef started with Jeff calling her win on Australian Survivor a half. Will we really give her a full win for that? Or does it count for like half a win on his podcast? And I think that started the rivalry between the likes of Parvati. I think that's a fair take from Jeff. I was expecting him to say, does it count for half a win or no win? Yeah. Because it was such a, it was, it was an exhibition season, frankly. So I may count it as like a half a win, I would maybe say. So a lot of people who believe Parvati is the GOAT and they count her as two wins now and put her up there with Tony and Sandra.

1:15:51 She's definitely Mount Rushmore, but I'm actually in agreement with Jeff on this one. I don't think it counts as a full win. She played great competition in that season, though. You have to give her credit. She beat some of the best in the world. But like you said, there was issues with the way that they balanced the tribes in that season with just the built-in alliances and things like that. It wasn't, how many people were in each tribe? Like seven in each tribe from memory? It was 14. Yeah, I think it was, it was four, three, I think. Yeah. And like half of the tribe, half of the tribe was like all American, like three Americans. And then you had one from South Africa, one from Quebec, one from Finland or something. Yeah. And then one from New Zealand and the New Zealand player wasn't really playing for themselves. They were just the super fan that really wanted to play for Parvati and Suri and was just grateful to be there with them, you know, kind of thing.

1:16:43 But anyways, different podcast topic. DreadfulRuby saying, I'd love to see an all-star season with no winners. It's been a while. Yeah. Like second chances, right? Second chances was an excellent season. I think on the point, I think an all-star season is where it's kind of like an even playing field where it's like, you're all like second players that haven't won or like, you can have like pre-merge. And it doesn't like, at that stage, it's like, that's the, that's the limit. So just have the parameters, because that was the issue with like Australian Survivor, where it's like, you've got people coming back for the fifth time, you've got, you know, relationships already. And there's going to be no more star seasons these days with social media and people like DMing each other and doing alliances. You almost have to have like a blind season where.

1:17:34 Can I tell you what would be an interesting season theme? We've spoken about this a few times. Let's do back to back. Let's do back to back. Let's go, let's go one season, same cast, different season. This season would be perfect for that. This season would be perfect. You play the season, everybody gets out there, they get voted out, they stay on Ponderosa, you split the pre-merge and the post-merge, and then you just roll it back with the same cast for a second season. I'm not sure Rob would be keen on that, to be honest. Rob would be like, no, I'm good, guys. I'm good. I'm not coming back. Well, he said he'd come back and play again. I'd love to see how the tribes would play. Like, for instance, if you get to the end of the season and Ori wins, using him as an example, he's probably the first one out in the next season. People are like, he got his point, let him go home. Like, he doesn't need to play again. And then you, and then how would players play that ended up out of the game?

1:18:26 But you'd have to mix up the tribes somehow, you know, like a, like a randomized tribe or something. But it'd be interesting to see players. That'd be interesting. Yeah. So people still trying to recover from the scars of betrayal in the previous season, having to see how they play the next season would be very interesting to me. I'm very fascinated to see how a season like that could potentially play out, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We need to do a podcast just on like random twists and ideas for new seasons that could be well. I think it could do well and to revitalize Survivor. But again, it's hard work for Jeff because he would not have a break in between seasons. He needs his rest. Well, that's, isn't that basically what Jeff did? He's just like, I'll just shoot them back to back so I can spend the rest of my time doing nothing. Yeah, probably. I don't know. What is the filming schedule? I think they changed that. Yeah. I think they changed it up like Samoa or something. Or I want to say like maybe when they started filming full-time in Samoa or Fiji, I think they said, let's do it back to back.

1:19:20 And they chose it specifically in times where it's less likely to have a typhoon or something. Because if they did it not back to back, then they're more likely to have like a situation where they have to be evacuated. Which I think very early on in like Millennials versus Gen X, I think, they had the typhoon and they were just like, nah, screw this. We're just going to do it back to back on the best season or like months in the year. Yeah. Another season that I always thought would be interesting to see as well is where you get a season playing out, but you've got two seasons showing at the same time. And they go back. They go up against each other. They get to the merge portion. It's the full season up to that point. They're at the merge season and Jeff says, you think you've made the merge. However, you've qualified for season 52 of Survivor. You're going up against this other tribe. And then they get brought in with the boats and they have to start over.

1:20:14 This is an incredibly deep cut. But this is like back 20 years ago, there was an Australian Survivor season, I think. And then they had two houses and then there was a wall. But the one side of the house didn't know the other side existed. And then halfway through the season, they dropped the wall and they realized that they were living in the same house. Wow. Same thing should happen. Like you'd have like an old school season where it's like 16 people, but it's actually two seasons going up against each other. And then at the merge, they come together. And it's just like this full on like mega season. 52 days of Survivor. You said that 26 wasn't enough. We went to 52. Hardest season of Survivor ever. You've got to survive 52 days out on the island. It'll never happen, but yeah. But, you know, we can fan dream and yeah, exactly. How about just a Survivor season that has the same structure as Big Brother?

1:21:04 I think people will probably hate that. I think people in the comments would be like, no. No, Survivor is Survivor. Survivor is the better show for now. Until Big Brother wins on the ratings more, then we might consider it. And they're getting close. I legitimately think that the game structure of Big Brother is superior to Survivor, but the production value is better on Survivor. So why not? If you're going to have a Survivor versus Big Brother season on Survivor, have the production value and the editing of Survivor, but the game structure of Big Brother. Yeah. Again, I think people are going to hate that idea in the comments. Well, here's a hot take. Here's a hot take. Like 15 seasons ago, I probably would have never liked this idea of bringing in the duels again, like we used to have in Survivor. What was it? Where they would go head to head when they voted in? Redemption Island, right? I would have been against Redemption Island.

1:21:55 I hated the twist in the early days, but we've messed around with the fabrics of the game so much now that I actually wouldn't hate a Redemption Island, where players who are getting voted out have one more shot to get back into the game and actually fight against other players being voted out. Like I'm actually more open to it now than I would have been 15 years ago because it gives players like your Bradys or your Jonathans or that archetype. It gives them a chance. I feel like sometimes in these seasons and also where luck is so involved now in the game where a twist could be the reason. Like Cristian, imagine Cristian going out on the Jimmy Fallon twist last year and then he has one more shot to get back because he got screwed by a twist. Like I actually feel like it's becoming more and more fair. Only if it's a blood versus water season, personally. I think it worked really well in 27. And I think people have been out on blood versus water after the Australian Survivor season with Sandra and Nina, because that was such a terrible season. But I think it would work again on American Survivor with a Redemption Island.

1:22:49 I think 27 was probably the best iteration of that particular twist. I mean, but then again, like San Juan del Sur was a fantastic season. Like blood versus water, I think would work really well. And I think that would only work with a Redemption Island season or with Redemption Island. I think even on 29, they had Redemption Island and then they changed it, I think, to Exile Island instead. I don't know why they got rid of that, but I think it would have worked pretty well then. It's like they figured out when Redemption Island would have worked and then they haven't had a blood versus water season since then. So open era, you know? Yeah, I'm keen. I'm keen on that blood versus water season. Dreadful Ruby says you should do a fantasy all-stars cast. You know what, Dreadful Ruby? Maybe we will. After the season is finished, Andre, why don't we just jump on, do an all-stars cast for fun and we'll put some names out there. It might be interesting. I don't know if our take would be the same as the general consensus out there of superfans because I feel like both Andre and I, yeah, we've got our own fantasy.

1:23:45 No, I'm Tony. You want Tony's number one? I don't think we can get Tony for the record. We give him a rest. We give him a rest. Okay, Dreadful Ruby says, if we get live feeds, I'd be here for it. So the Big Brother theme, that would be very interesting. But we have gotten to the end of this live show here this week. If you liked it, please subscribe for more content like this. Let us know in the comment section below who is your winner pick at the moment. Did we get it right? Are we on the right track here? Or do you have completely different players that you're favoring this season to go out and win this season? We'll do all of this again next week, Andre. This has been a lot of fun. Please, if you're new, go check out the Nullified Take website. I did share it earlier. I'll share it once more here. It's thenullifytake.com. It's going to have your hub for all of our lives.

1:24:37 It's going to have any of our shorts clips on there as well. It's also got Survivor 51 information, who gets voted out, who's still left in the game, the tribe, a little bit of an FAQ and any favorite questions that people are asking about Survivor 51. We've put a bit of effort into this website, so hopefully you'll enjoy it. We're open to comments and feedback on that as well to make it a bit more of a community hub in the future where everybody can engage with us. But for now, grab your torches, head back to campus.