Survivor China Review

0:00 And we are back with day 15 of Survivor 46 and 46 I just finished watching Survivor China Todd just won in a very we're gonna we're gonna touch on tribal soon but Todd just one today I'm joined by returners from 42 and 42 we have Carly and John frell both of y'all going right into it I know that both of you rewatched this leading up to this we'll start with Carly compared to the first few times you've watched it and this most recent time does it get better as you watch it more or is it just like does it stagnate like in the middle or does it drop so to be honest I chose this season to do for this because I hadn't watched this in years like I couldn't really remember how it goes down there's a lot of people on the season who return later on so like I kind of knew the narrative there not my favorite season Prem merge is very boring to me and then it starts to pick up about round two of merge I thought but it was kind of a long time yeah it took a long time to get there once I was there I was like okay like I'm having fun but

1:21 Getting to that point was a little bit painful John I'll partly agree with that I'll say pre swap was boring once you get to swap and then you get really like the whole like tribes actually wanting to throw challenges and like legit fully throwing which I got good laughs out of and listening to James Jamie and PG listening to jam say [Music] [ __ ] it's such an iconic line just [ __ ] soku pay attention yeah and then they're literally just oops and just throwing the Pieces away and then watching them literally figure out the whole entire Idol situation and then taking apart the rest of Camp thinking that everything was going to be an idol and then it just I got to rekindle my hatred for John Rober All About Touch all on gber that's the start to finish thing but I mean he's the Arrogant [ __ ] of the season putting it lightly he not even villain he's just an [ __ ] so

2:41 Carly what were you saying I was gonna say I don't disagree with any of that there were like some bright spots but I think maybe later on in Survivor we get spoiled with really fun tribals and that's my favorite part of the episodes and they were a lot of really boring tribals where it's like there was no question about what was going to happen like yeah they didn't say anything interesting at tribal it was just like okay well next episode The Aaron boot well I would say the chicken boot because of how he goes out and the Aaron boot with the fact that PG and Jamie are still sitting in there laughing at everything and Jeff's actually very clearly upset at oh wow you guys are still laughing at this I think outside of that I do agree that the pre merg tribals are putting it lightly the best I also do agree that the pre- swap is probably the worst part of the season because I do because the swap doesn't last long and the way they actually did the Swap this season I actually like that mechanic that they added to it I also like the mechanic of hey since we're not going to do Exile Island this time let's just have him have him kidnap and we'll figure out how to do the idol that way I do feel like that built the merge storyline up you know I don't think that it was the most compelling television in the moment but as the season

4:01 Progressed and we're getting closer and closer to the merge we know where the Idols are and we're getting you know Todd's Tri tribe trying to throw this challenge so that James can idle out I think they want to idle out Jamie at that point I do think that is compelling this season absolutely runs into and I talked about this at least the last two or three days the recruitment era [ __ ] and recruitment era [ __ ] is a lot KW [ __ ] is people not knowing what the game is James refers to the immunity idol I think twice as the immunization thing the fact that the there are just so many there's so many people here that it's very clear have never watched the show before and it s and I think that's what does drag down the pre merge of at least the last three to four seasons that I've watched we're just like okay yeah we're getting rid of all this Canon fodder but also we're getting rid of people that didn't know what was going on anyway and there's not going to be many people that do want know what's going on at the merge but at least there's one or two to keep things interesting I know that you know this is highly looked at as both a great season and a great era for Survivor what do you think that the era as a whole is overrated because of you know people look at just the merge

5:21 And they just kind of abandon the fact that these casts outside of a few folks are not best either one can go I know that was a lot but it's a mix for me because there's certain bits of the cast and certain people that went too early in my opinion like well I mean I would have loved to seen Aaron come back Aaron okay Aaron yeah I think of him especially because like he got royally [ __ ] over and then never came back again I mean I still have the hot take that James is probably one of my top 10 worst players of all time I mean you look at every single done they bring him in just as a hot piece of meat I mean that's literally all he's good for [Music] yeah keep on keep on talking don't sorry I just the thing pop up in my squirrel moment just but no James yeah literally like you said he doesn't understand what's going on he gets blindsided with two Idols in his pocket it was Final what seven that he goes out final seven literally I mean you play them like then and one other time and you guaranteed yourself to make final five

6:42 At least so I mean I don't understand why you don't do that but again you have an idiot player like that's just going out there and then yeah he's just doing stupid [ __ ] all the time and just getting pissed off at everything Carly go ahead car I understand like what both of you are saying but unfortunately I think that two players that we know for a fact were recruited and don't know anything about Survivor James and Courtney were the most compelling characters of the Season true so it's like how can I really be mad that they were recruited when they were probably the most interesting part of the entire season for as far as like creating story lines being interesting witty commentary like I think Courtney adapted the best though also like and you look at like Courtney in this game you look at Courtney during her next appearance and she realized what she needed to do in the game whereas James just was there yeah I don't think that James adapted yeah that through three seasons I don't think he learned no I don't think James ever learn and I do say that Courtney 2 know despite the fact that she gets a [ __ ]

8:02 Edit I do think for me is better whatever better means James 1.0 is probably the best version of James because in Micronesia not a big fan of her's villains he's basically a villain and Amanda who we will we'll touch on Amanda later because I think we all have opinions on Amanda as a player as a whole the other problem that this era kind of runs into the recruitment era is it comes off as Trader season 1 and what I mean by that is for anyone that was listening yesterday or whenever you listen to the Fiji one some people come off as especially jury wise overly pissed off at things like lying and I think that this season we actually got the inverse where we have Amanda sitting at the end hoping that people would be more pissed off at Todd for lying and her trying to throw him under the bus and in reality people you know the jury at least most of them kind of looked at her as like hey can you stop pouting and just tell us what happened in the game I do think that James and Denise were not two of those people I think that James and Denise were definitely going to try to vote for the person they felt told

9:22 The truth the most this is why they voted for Courtney but it just I especially with Fiji and this I just got Trader season 1 Vibes of people being overly angry or trusting that people would be overly angry you know against someone they were sitting next to you do you guys think that's a fair comparison I mean I definitely see Denise and Denise is a weird situation also because she got caught up in her own lies like after her hypocrite while it's like you're literally like talking in the finale about how you lost your job in which it was that was just a twisting completely of the situation you changed jobs and then tried to get your old job back you never actually lost your job so granted I've got a whole entire like hatred towards Denise for other reasons I mean for other reasons he literally gave me covid so I mean me is confused oh no I have met Denise a couple times as well and we'll talk about that okay go no Carly what do what do you feel about the comparison to the trader season one oh yeah I think it's fair it's like very much

10:42 Like people playing emotionally like based on feelings how you made how you made me feel is most important for the vote which I do agree though it was like a weird inverse with Amanda where I think she just would have taken some ownership of her game before PG forced her to we could have seen a very different outcome in the season and we could have seen what I think is probably the most correct outcome I think and that and that's we can just segue right into the Amanda kemel of it all because Amanda is probably her and Todd are the best players on the season and Amanda is the one that does orchestrate the James vote Todd doesn't even try to take credit for it's even said like you went along with the to get rid of James I do feel like if Amanda and this is Amanda story arc for the next two seasons of if she just gets there and doesn't pout and doesn't cry and you know just owns up to a lot of stuff she probably turns into a two-time well I don't know if she would make it to Micronesia if she had won but there are two different times that she could have won the game that she didn't because I call her pout face online which is very rude but like she does she pouts a lot and PG actually calls her out on it and says every time you look at

12:02 Me it's just like you just have the same little sad look on your face it's like yeah every single time that Amanda does anything this season she's pouting she's crying when they vote out Denise even though she sits there and tells Denise you know I'm gonna I'm Gonna Keep you tonight no matter what I just don't know where these other two are gonna go how do you think that's like how do you feel how am I trying to phrase this you are going to backstab this person you know you're going to backstab this person you are lying to them when they go in the jury the worst thing you can do is just kind of say oh well yeah I lied but I'm so sorry and I feel so bad about it's like just say it was a game like say it was a game move like what you just saw Todd do with John RAR and what Courtney you know did with everyone that would listen what are our thoughts on Amanda this season Carly we'll start with you I think well just overall I think Amanda isn't excellent Survivor player with no public speaking skills like I think if after this season if Amanda would have taken like one two week public speaking course Micronesia could have ended very differently for her like she just does not know she I think part of it is maybe she gets nervous because she just doesn't answer the questions or she does she doesn't answer them well

13:23 And the pouting the pouting is the problem she just took ownership for her game I think she would have won because really her and Todd's game are completely identical especially once merch hits they do every single move together except she makes the plan to take out James arguably the biggest move of the game the guy with two Idols had he played them that night first one and then the second one he would have been in final five like and probably could have even won out from there because he was very good at challenges so I think if she could have just spoken and like made that point clear to the jury just said it straight out this is what happened right from the start and not had to be forced to say that by PG later I think she might have had the vote to get there I think I think really all three of the finalists played together once jury hit and did everything together except that was her one thing to stand out and Courtney's one thing to stand out was just making it yeah the beginning so like it would have been between them instead of between Courtney and Todd if she had just said yeah and it I feel I honestly feel worse for her in Micronesia and I'll talk about that

14:43 Tomorrow but spoilers I think aie really tanks her game at final tribal but here I feel less because I sat here saying like oh my God like she's doing the worst and it doesn't help that Todd is doing you know being the ultimate [ __ ] artist and Courtney is being her genuine I don't care self Amanda sitting next to them I would just I feel like I would sit there and like I can't vote for this person and I honestly think the only reason Eric does vote because one of the questions that she did actually like put emphasis into is because Eric like doubled down on the I thought it was a like it's a no-brainer if you vote out some of two Idols she's like no I get that but it's still scary because if you vote out Todd my person in this game I have to start all over again at final six so I did I think I do kind of understand why Eric would vote for her in that situation John is this the best version of Amanda that we are going to get or do you think that down the line Amanda's gets better I have okay yes and no because I will say because in ranking her three her Heroes versus Villains by far pisses me off the most [Music] but I will say she played a phenomenal

16:04 Game during this time she like but like Harley said she just couldn't talk into anything pretty much and got in her own way I will say that during versus faves I feel she played a great game there as well and again if she if it was a final three she just would have lost outright to three yeah entire different story I'm so looking forward to tomorrow and being heartbroken again at final but like between Amanda and parvy for Micronesia like if Amanda could have articulated it there's really not yeah gone it's up in the air but Amanda cannot speak Amanda can't speak and it was such a close vote that time too and I mean yeah I definitely feel she played a better game than Courtney she deserves second place at least over Courtney in my opinion I feel that the two people that were running the show the most were her and Todd and Todd had a better FTC so my opinion I felt Todd should have should win based upon those given circumstances

17:24 And yes and so that means I would say yeah this probably is the best Amanda but fans versus faves is a close second and bringing up that final you know jumping to the merge real quick outside of John rer I feel like everyone that makes the merge has a very compelling you know even Jamie even though she gets voted out first in the merge I think every one of these people could potentially win in a final three situation in the season with the exception of genre beer because he has antagonized and more everyone in the game do feel like James is a threat I do feel like Denise no matter what she's sitting there saying like oh yeah my tears would wouldn't have affected anything and they still would have voted for like no your tears would have also affected stuff because it wouldn't have come off as pouting I think if PG would have a great storyline Jamie Eric who am I missing Frosty I mean everyone loved Frosty so like I feel like outside of John rer we have a merge here where even though I feel like this season Fiji and Cook Islands I feel like they do te Telegraph who the winner is at least on these rewatches I do feel like watching it this time around I was trying to pick out things that other people were doing it's like okay this person could win

18:44 Do you guys agree with that am I am I crazy you know you're completely right I mean even if it's not the winner you're at least figuring people out that are like right there at the end like you like you had like you said in previous season you had a ya man who if he didn't get taken out at four I definitely saw him being the winner but in this season it's not like I saw Denise being a winner but I easily saw Amanda and I saw Todd being there at the end I could have seen a James being there at the end if he I mean I'm not saying him winning I'm just saying no I don't think that I don't think it's crazy to say that James would win because his edit was gave people gave Courtney points for being honest and that is one thing that James was doing the entire time he was being honest with folks and hey you know don't [ __ ] this up because if we just stay the course we'll be fine Carly I think anyone could have won because I don't think anyone played exceptionally like this season it was a lot of like very obvious votes just like you know it was like a for most of it was like a pugong situation like yeah they just stuck together they all worked together the only thing that I thought ever really shook up anything was the well obviously the genre bear

20:04 But like was that really racking the boat very much and then the James situation which was like Amanda's move so I think like other than that like nothing you know what I mean it was like a very straightforward game of Survivor game of numbers I mean taking John roer out I mean as much as we all hate him he was a smart guy he's a poker player I mean I've seen him win lots of he's a bad boy I'm not even getting I mean he knows how to win tournaments by lying and doing things like that so I mean taking him out when you get the chance and not letting him talk his way into getting further I mean you could say that somewhat is rocking the boat or making somewhat of a move but right but I just mean that everybody was on the same page everybody on the same page at least anyway it was a blind side really only to Jean roer well and it was also to Denise because she voted for PG I believe that round then she was you know my thing with Denise and we'll jump there next Denise runs into this problem that a lot of people in this era of Survivor run into where it's like they don't know when to jump ship H everything all right yep I had a stress

21:25 Ball in my hand and I just popped it and it was like liid Denise does not know when to jump ship to the point where you know we've got people from basically six to 4 saying hey just come with us just come with us come at seven just come with us and then at 4 she's sitting there with a dumb look on her face when she realizes I'm screwed like no matter unless I win immunity I am screwed and it's all my fault and she's like oh maybe I'll just go talk to Amanda to see if she'll be willing to vote with me it's like no you should have been doing this for forever ago because especially because you keep getting left out of votes if she was if she was Voting along with everybody else I feel like it would be a little bit different but she even says oh I'm being left out of vots I'll keep B on the bottom of the totem pole it's like yeah what do you think that means and then you're ant you're purposely antagonizing but you're PG takes her on the one reward Challenge and then twice in a row she does not take PG which she's not obligated to do that like it's that's fine but when you're when you have sat there and established hey I am on the bottom of the totem pole why are you not taking people that could potentially help you out in a situation when you were not in that situation and Denise was so frustrating this season because it just it was so clear that this

22:45 Is this was always going to happen to her they was never they were never going to let Denise get to the end they all had their different reasons that they were saying on camera but I don't think that any of the three of them would have ever turn on each other period I think they put a lot of stuff in the edit to make you think hey we might vote out Todd those people were never voting out Todd because I do think that like all three of us have basically said that final three is actually a tossup it's not like Todd is like powerful final that we have no chance at beating so I do think their reads are rsh but Carly what were your thoughts on Denise especially in the endgame portion of this yeah I'm trying to remember which vote it is where afterwards she says she made she might have made the biggest mistake by not flipping who was it was it Eric it might have been the Eric vote Frosty I can't remember but like she was right it was the biggest mistake of her game because it was it became apparent that she was on the bottom of that Alliance that she was number four they were not taking her to the end and I but there was also a point later on where I felt like Amanda should have flipped I do think Amanda should have taken out Todd for with I think she should have

24:05 Voted with PG and maybe got Denise on board at that point voted out Todd then turned back with the girls and voted out PG and then I think Amanda would if Amanda public speaking again would have been an issue like if I were Amanda I would be think my game is identical to Todd I don't want to sit next to him at the end so that's what I would have done but the question was about Denise I agree she didn't know when to pull the trigger and then she never tried to do it again like even when she realized like hey maybe this might have been a mistake I don't know we'll see like she never tried to make anything else happen yeah she was I won't say complacent oh no I will say complacent yeah to get fourth place or to have someone bring her long to third place she wasn't doing anything to get herself there at that point she was just along for the ride John without her without talking about her getting you sick because no she was just there I mean that again it's I never felt as if she was going to win unless she was getting like the wo is me I'm a lowly cafeteria worker

25:25 Pity vote type of thing and going off of like off of story not off of actual any gameplay but because I mean there was so many times in which she was just there like as an extra member and which she never like T like we never heard her really like trying to initiate like the game yeah her best moment is when she it's so goofy when she doing karate with all the kids and it's just like I feel like as a Chinese man or woman in that situation watching this white lady Duke karate in front of me I would have laughed my ass off I'm sorry for cutting you off but no you're good but you're right I mean the memorable moments of Denise are just are weird moments like she never was like she won a couple times but she was never like the challenge Beast or she wasn't this the social person or the Strategic mind she was James's Crush for some reason she knew how to make food I guess that confessional where James is sitting there like oh man if she was younger she could get it and just like what are you talking about like this is not a knock on her but like have you seen the women out there this season they are no

26:45 No there was some goodlooking women out there that season I would say that but not Denise yeah stop he likes the mullets I guess so and going from Denise to James because you said that you think that James is top 10 worst players I not going to say all that I will say that James is top 10 overrated players and top 10 like hey we don't yeah we'll bring him back next season for Micronesia we really don't need to bring him back versus Heroes versus Villains and I think because I think across three seasons I don't I someone in the chat correct me if I'm wrong I'm fairly certain he has zero individual immunities and people keep hyping him up to be this challenge be but if that's the case you know where's the proof in that I understand you know pre merge he can do a lot of stuff but premerge Azie can do a lot of stuff too and pre-merge crazy Joe can do a lot of stuff too but for some reason James is all because of the way he looks and I and I get that being built I think that even his content this season is not necessarily the most positive I think that there's a lot of you know yeah compared to John rer he's going to be the good person in that situation but James comes off as a bully for a lot of this season when he's I mean the only time I've ever really the only time I

28:06 Really sided with him was during the swap where the girls are throwing the challenge but outside of that it's like ah man I really don't Vibe with him this time around and I absolutely don't Vibe with him in Heroes versus Villains Carly what about James do you feel warranted at least in the Productions eyes to two times you know two being a two-time rur I do think James is an entertaining personality like you don't have to be a good Survivor player to be interesting to watch we've seen that how many times like and I think that's what he brings to the table I think James is I do think obviously he's beneficial to have on your tribe in the beginning of the game and that's why he's going to make it through the beginning of the game if you any like nine times out of 10 you put him on Survivor he's going to make it through the pre-merge because he's really helpful with challenges in the beginning because a lot of times the beginning challenges you need a strong guy to carry [ __ ] like that's what it comes down yeah you do and so and like that regard he is good to have on the game for that and then James will argue with you so he's good television

29:27 In that way when they were throwing the challenge James just doesn't let them get away with throwing the challenge he's not like oh I don't want them to vote me out like let me not say anything he immediately gets back and starts arguing with them so it's like that's compelling TV even if he's not a great Survivor player he is he does make interesting TV yes and it's still he's not over the top with it either we like we it is genuine I feel like it's a that's who he is he's genuine he comes off as like a genuine guy so there is like a level of you want to root for James even though he's not good at Survivor it's like oh like I want you to be better like I want you to figure this out play your idol I want you to play your idol and you're right he's never wed an individual imun he's never okay yeah he's never W John going just piggybacking off the question I just asked why is James a hero this is because everyone that's been listening to like I've either I've led into Allstars by continuing to break because I knew that was coming hey why is this person going to be an Allstar we're going to Heroes versus Villains by the end of this upcoming week what do you think happens in this season specifically that says this is this is one of the people we need back as a hero for Heroes

30:47 Versus Villains because he was honest and he fought back against the adversity that was Jamie and PG that's literally that's literally what he's got going for him as a hero literally the fact that he survived that one those two those two tribals pretty much well was a tribal and they won the immunity when they wanted him to throw it when he was trying his best to throw he couldn't because Denise sucks I think Heroes versus Villains though really like the casting comes down to like inherent personality traits that people consider heroic or villainous because there's a lot of people who did not do anything that heroic are that villainous and there we've talked about so far we've done Danielle we did Danielle and I don't remember who said what but basically I think we came down to Danielle voted out Terry America's sweetheart so she's got to be a villain meanwhile Candice stuck to her guns even though she betrayed IU she's got to be a hero because she tried her best to get back with her allies she never wavered I think I do agree that I feel like James is probably looked at as a hero more because of the challenge aspect which you know Carly I know it's especially brought up

32:08 I know the first time James is Entertainment Television I'll never say that I do feel like there's a lot of Survivor fans that don't rewatch seasons and just have this perception of certain players in their heads based off of one that the first time they watch it but two what the internet tells them that's why I love doing this because I can rewatch these things and be like no that's not how this went down ever because one of the popular things is it was Todd's idea to get rid of James thankfully watching it this time around and seeing everyone give credit to Amanda for it I do feel like that's one of the things that revisionist history has kind of changed and I'm glad that at least here everyone gives credit to Amanda for that situation I want to finally get to this question because it's been sitting on the screen for a while yeah despite where they finished where do zanu which Zan who member tribe member was the best player and had the greatest potential to be a winner the second part of that is the tougher part because I don't see many I mean I almost want to say Jamie as the biggest potential to be a winner in that in this grouping and everything her and PG had the strongest

33:29 Game mindset and had they not been pagong then I can easily see them possibly making it to the end Jamie and then yeah I include PG as a onea type of thing I'm still also a little jaded at on PG's second game so that's why I don't want to include her as much but yeah you think she stole Abby Maria's thing Carly I don't I'm thinking really hard about it too like if we're looking at this season as like an isolated thing if PG pulls out another immunity win that last one that she loses like she has she has a compelling story if she gets to the end to win but like generally speaking do I think PG is a great player no like she's not good at making people like her like it's just not her strong suit she's good at soku you know what I mean like how many people like she the other members of her original tribe were able to infiltrate or at least make friends and like PG did not like she just wasn't able to do that so it's like yeah I looking it's so hard to say I don't I don't know I tried the fantasy

34:49 Book stuff just because I feel like we kind of but I would just to answer the question I would say Jamie only because they bled her as the person running that tribe and if that's the case if they already have this perception in their head to begin with if we let Jamie get along in the game and she somehow goes to the end now the perception is we just let the biggest threat from the other tribe get to the end and if she speaks well what she does show herself to be able to be articulate and then speak and she's a college student I think it's her occupation in the season I do think that probably let's say let's say Jamie we're not going to touch on outside the game Jamie Eric stuff but inside the game I do think that was a very fun like one episode story or I mean I know that they ended up getting married or whatever one episode story AR they do kind of bring up the reunion of you know this blossoming this blossoming relationship Forman is the one running the duo you know I don't think we had seen that much with showmances up until this point where it's shown that the woman is running the duo where Eric is kind of going

36:09 Along with everything and voting wrong I believe at one point and the whole scene with them in the water and him saying he's a virgin and she's just like I right before that she says I can't find any faults with him which is like obviously there's nothing wrong with it's just the way that it's framed is it's hilarious I we're gonna touch on Courtney and then we're going to touch on John rer Courtney I Courtney is one of my favorite characters on the show ever and I do understand you know for me my perception has always been she's on the villain because she's Maly about the genre bear thing which is something that they production thought about at that point I do feel like once sha rer goes though Courtney does actually become sort of a villain moving forward after mainly in her confessionals yell I think that Courtney is such a Courtney is such a compelling character such a compelling player the fact that she I'm not going to say she almost won but like she got second place in a season where there were

37:29 There was a very apparent top two and she got second place in front of one of those people why how do I how do I want to phrase this I guess what are our thoughts on Courtney I mean she wanton an individual immunity she did what a bunch of people that we thought were gonna win a whole bunch couldn't do James win one no exactly James didn't win one either granted she then becomes Sandra 2.0 in a bunch of other situations in which like she's just the sit out Queen but no Courtney becomes that personality you fir on First Watch I did not like Courtney just because it was it was almost too much sass but going back on rewatch I really enjoyed her sass like I and I would laugh at half the things she was saying because I could actually go along with her train of thought at this point and actually try and get in her head a little bit more I think Courtney's really entertaining I think she was a bright spot in the pre-merge really like her

38:49 Sass her trying to cut that rope was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life and she cried during it was painful to watch but like I was like okay at least it's like eliciting some sort of emotion even if that like emotion was like pain and discomfort I don't know Courtney is funny Courtney is someone who really should not have made it to merge and somehow did and then was not bad at the game once she got to that point so she was like a fun surprise and I do think her personality is unique like it stands out amongst however many hundred of people have played now like people know Courtney and remember her personality because no one has been like quite as like sassy or as like still likable while being that Sassy no one else has told Jeff to f off and we're still like that's pretty funny like I've got my comparison to Courtney and oh if you say the person I'm thinking about then I might scream but they're very like Angel and Demon version of each other too and I mean that person sugar okay explain please you look at Sugar again she doesn't she doesn't give a [ __ ] half the time and she doesn't mind telling people the way it is

40:09 And but she's sugar is more looked at as that like the okay and she's the person that you can bring home to your parents whereas Courtney's like yeah [ __ ] you and if you were to bring her home to Mom and Dad they'd be like are you sure about that son type of thing I love her I love her mom exactly I so I was GNA compare her going back to Trader season one Kate Chastain oh my God someone that just does not want to be there and just somehow just continues to survive the entire time and you know Kate is trying to like basically begging to go at a certain point and I won't say Courtney is begging to go but like she says every time I would survive it's just like I can't believe this is actually happening yeah and it as I got and I think it's because like the Traders has come out since the last time I watched this season I'm always trying to compare things to other things I've watched recently and that is the vibe that I got this time of just yeah Courtney doesn't care Courtney is admitting to not caring even during final triable she's basically saying oh yeah like yeah I didn't really care and I do feel like Kate was the same way and the tra for anyone that hasn't watched the Traders please go watch

41:29 The Traders it's great it's good [ __ ] but I and you know wrapping up the Courtney thing I do think because of the interviews that she has done post Survivor where she talks about how she thought about quitting a fair few times because PR and Amanda and Todd were not being receptive to the whole she feels uncomfortable with John bear thing and this is this is bleeding into a couple different things but like Todd annoyed the [ __ ] out of me for most of the pre merge and merge because he's being so [ __ ] about the fact that Courtney wants Johan rer gone for actual like legitimate reasons yeah we're in season 15 so like it's still it's not played for Laughs like it was in season five but it's also not you know it's we haven't reached the season 39 extremes yet of this but Todd and Todd and Amanda but most specifically Todd because he's the one talking on camera about it annoyed me at the fact that he was just saying like she needs to get over it like I'm trying to win here and he's telling her to her face like hey John bar is being is good for my game so he has to stay and she's like I don't I don't

42:50 Want him here you're screwing up my plans right I felt for her you know she yeah oh she's an entertaining player and all that I felt for her pre merge because you could tell how much she just did not want this man there and I want to and this is not we don't have to go deep into this because it's you know do you do you feel like specifically with Todd is he in the game wise is he in the does he have an obligation to listen to her and Carly we'll start with you I feel like he could have been more sensitive to her feelings about it and like listen I get it's a game for a million dollars like it he said inappropriate things but like was he a real threat or a danger to her I don't know I wasn't there like I can't say but do I think he should have had like a conversation being like hey like I acknowledge this is how you feel but like let's also talk about the implications for your game too if we get rid of him right now when we need him as a number and like

44:10 I maybe think that like she might have needed to like talk that out loud too and just to see like hey like where do I like how do the votes going forward look if we do get rid of him like I don't know I think it's messy I think again like wasn't there wasn't sure if he's like a real threat do I think she at least was owed an apology from John RAR after the season absolutely like you know what I mean I don't yeah it's a game for a million doll and it didn't from what we saw I didn't feel like there was real danger or threat but like definitely uncomfortable like him trying to grab her in the tent and everything like yeah I don't even remember that part oh yeah there's a whole scene where he's like trying to like pull amand in him because he needs them to make him feel warm and Courtney's like I'm like 12 pounds why does he need me to keep him warm and so they SLE they start sleeping separate from each other because she feels uncomfortable with them in the yeah now that you say that was that but can you remind me was that before after she overheard that conversation that was after yeah see like okay maybe production should have had a conversation

45:30 With him at that point like for sure John this I mean yes he had an obligation but we've seen unfortunately time and time again in which people just didn't either whether they didn't care or they didn't think it was as serious as the person was letting on and they tried putting the game in front of them like Carly said they're playing for that million dollars and Todd wasn't seeing physical things he's just hearing Courtney as pretty much [ __ ] about it so he's just thinking that Courtney's just being whiny and just wants this annoying person gone where and her tone changed a bit once he was gone yeah courney became a fun TV Villain at that point because now she's antagonizing people that're not genre bear exactly yeah I was gonna say too though I do think that like when a cast goes on a TV show you especially one where there's a camera cameras are there production is there 247 you go in with the thought process that like production is here to protect you and

46:51 The other players so like I would blame at that point production more than I would blame Todd like if she was uncomfortable and felt unsafe and was voicing this to production it's their job to do something about it yeah I do this is not funny but it's funny because when we get to season 39 and everything happens with that the one person's opinion that we'd never see about anything dealing with that is Tommy and I do think that's a big jump that we get from 15 to39 because even in 15 we get Todd's we get Todd's Point of View from things that Courtney is telling him and I think that's you know in season five we get Brian's we get Brian's everything about the whole Ted gandia thing here we just get you know how Todd feels about what Courtney is saying and 39 we don't hear anything about what Tommy has to say about anything and I do think that For Better or Worse production got very good at that like hey we can't have our winner speaking anything about anything negative going on in this game at this point and I just I just wanted to touch on that the location and the challenges

48:11 Weird the location and challenges one I love I mean obviously I think the reason that people love China so much is because of the location but I also think that the challenges are a lot of they're shot very cheesily with like the slow and some of them but I do I do enjoy I enjoy the fact that we have one season unique to this I don't feel like we need a whole bunch of China Seasons because then it gets played out just like how Fiji has gotten played out I do think that just having one China season where everything's in slowmo when something cool happens you know the camps are not you know Beach heavy I enjoy that and you know I feel like more than anything else that's why people put China on a pedestal because it's not I'm not g to sit here and say it's overrated or anything but it's what the kids say mid I'd say it's right above that it is I'm sorry we're all old enough here don't laugh at me but it's right above that just like okay yeah it's a it's a F this is the type of season that I would this is a season that I show Friends when I'm like hey this is the show that I watch here Survivor China because it's

49:32 Not super gameplay heavy and there's fun characters and yes the prear is a l but like you'll learn very fast that most Prem merges are not the best overall you know as we as we start to near the end of this what do we feel about Survivor China cuz I want to ask you guys opinions on just anything that we haven't touched on yet but like what are actual views on this season as a whole and John you can go first you were just bringing up the challenges I mean some of the challenges in this season I loved and then we never get to see anything close to it again I mean you had them actually having to do teamwork and I mean I go back and in my head I have that stupid drum comp like in my head and they're having to work together bouncing the ball back and forth It's a super simple competition but it was difficult to enact pretty much I mean because you had to have them actually like talking to each other and working things out yeah the challenge that Courtney won balancing on top of the drum Barrel it you had a lot of fun yeah the dragon drums or the oil drums there yeah

50:53 But I mean it was you had a lot of fun competition that you don't get to see in a lot of the other seasons and I mean that's I mean like you said this is a good starter season for Survivor newbies because like you said there's a lot of characters I mean heck even though he first boot I mean chicken was even chicken yeah chicken has an alltime boot chicken himself was a character so yeah and Sister Christian Carly I think Survivor China is I agree it's like not spectacular but I think if you have a friend who really wants to get into watching Survivor it's a necessary season to watch because so many people return so it's like if you want all of the lore and all of the understanding for future Seasons that are much better than Survivor China you have to watch Survivor China it's like a building block you need for later on but I don't necessarily think like if none of these people returned would I like rush out to tell people to watch Survivor China like probably not yeah going off of that what are your anything

52:13 That we haven't touched on that you wanted to touch base with this season me pull up my notes just I mean like i' like I said earlier there's there certain people that I would have loved to seen come back oh don't get to that yet because we have I have a question at the end of this that I was just saying that didn't come back but yes my first two notes were like from the very first episode and the two were you touched on the location a little bit and it made me miss different locations a lot and you were right that China feels like a character in the season like all of their rewards are like very based on the location like more than a lot of didn't you really get a feel for the location which I loved one the reward being like a local family coming in to like teach them how to fish like I really liked that it felt like very respectful of the culture and the location so it made me miss I'm over being in Fiji all the time to be honest I think most people I there's a level Now new survivor takes itself a little bit too seriously I think where it's like this was a nice refresher to be like oh like old survivor was serious but there's a level to it that's like the challenges are still hard but

53:33 They're a little bit more silly like there's they're more equalizing for like James doesn't couldn't win them all you know what I mean that's like anyone can Courtney won a competition like they feel like more equalizing they're like or challenges almost where anyone can win right and maybe it's because reality TV is so new in these early seasons 2 at least like this style of reality TV where it's like there's a lot of like just little fun interactions and segments that feel like kind of silly that like I don't know take out take you out of the game in a way that's like fun because they do spend so much time at camp like three days between rounds and new survivor I guess doesn't have that amount of time either so there maybe is less fun time but like the people seem like they're having so much fun playing Survivor in on Survivor China in like older Seasons versus newer Seasons which I kind of miss John it doesn't seem fun anymore it feels like really hard work no you're exactly right I mean I and I'm wondering how much of that is the location they're not being stranded on a beach where fishing is the only thing that they're able to do it's intriguing to I mean even though they're going that long in between

54:54 Stuff that they don't seem as starving as they are now in the newer Seasons I mean the scenery was absolutely beautiful I the like Carly said China itself was a character that we got to experience along with everything else so that plus some of these bigger personalities really just helped lend to just everything being bigger and brighter yeah Mak and one thing I kept thinking as I was watching this is I'm getting so much closer to the HD Seasons because like I'm not one of these people says oh man like HD is but when you watch now 15 straight days of non-hd Survivor and that's the only thing you're watching it's a stress on the eyes so I'm excited that by Tuesday I'll be back in HD yeah huh what's the first one in HD yeah gabon's the first season with HD okay final two questions that I ask at the end of all of this question one okay so once again by my account I'm fairly certain it's James Amanda Courtney and PG are the four people that come back right yes were they the right four people

56:15 Should that there have been others before we're not talking about 50 right now yeah just are they the right four people would you have broughten all would you have brought all four of them back and should there have been others that have should have been brought back at some point or another we will take we'll take account that Todd had his whole thing but like I'm you know obviously he's better now and all that exactly like I mean I want like I would love for Todd to come back and Todd was not in the proper mindset to come back should have been there for 40 I felt he was good enough for 40 at that point I in terms of being in the proper mental state oh yeah but and I think he would have been he would have been interesting to see with that group of characters at winners at War but yes we talked about PG being one of the better ones from her original tribe granted she did not do well during her other appearance Amanda did she was right to bring back Courtney was right to bring back James I feel they wanted to bring him back for Redemption and to see if he did anything stupider than get voted out with two Idols he's got metac next time

57:36 Yeah I mean half the Cs got [ __ ] metac yeah metac M next season so but I would have I would have loved to seen Aon or Eric come back for a second season also we won't talk about Eric now but Carly yeah like I don't I don't feel like there's anyone else that I feel like super strongly I think Amanda deserved her second chance in Redemption after that final tribal okay John did that happen on your end my airpod okay I thought that was my laptop no I think Amanda was a perfect choice to bring back for Redemption I agree like James deserved an opportunity at Redemption and is like he's someone who's worth bringing back I think he brings enough entertainment value Courtney obviously good one to bring back and then like PJ is like America voted for her so how you argue with that and like yeah oh boy we won't go there but also like

58:56 Did have some like entertaining moments she was did similar to like James she was not afraid to like call people out and speak her mind and yeah under different circumstances she could have also done well a second time so it's like yeah I so for me yeah I think my only I think the four that they brought back are the correct four these have a cap on it so I'm not just carrying around scissors there's a cap on this I think that they the four they brought back the right for they should have brought back I feel like outside of that probably Todd you know Todd wasn't one of the people I was pining for winners at War but like I wouldn't have hated to see him on there anyone would have been better than Ben and Nick so like yeah bring back Todd and bring back a few of the other male winners that we have had up to this point J so I see about Jamie I think that Jamie's very similar to like trying to think of someone from the past some like Cindy from Guatemala where it's like yeah Cindy was fun but I don't need another Cindy I don't need a second season of Cindy you know I'm fine with just a Jamie moment here you know I don't need more Jamie I think she was a fun character yeah I

1:00:16 Was gonna say I think Jamie's like one of those characters that's like maybe not super memorable could come back and do amazing could come back and go early it's like and we have so many people like that like even like Kelly Wentworth Kelly Wentworth wasn't or Monica Padilla super memorable her first time around like she was fine and then she comes back and like now Kelly Wentworth is like a huge name in Survivor everyone knows Kelly Wentworth and I'm like Jamie could have gone that trajectory if she came back she could have came back and been first boo it's like she didn't do anything that would like make me strongly believe that if she came back it would be life-changing but also yeah I feel like the premise of where they would have brought her back is she's the first person to ever play a fake Idol or something like they would try to build that storyline up second question for everyone that's you know everyone that's been listening to all of this I don't think anyone's going to come back from pre 33 but if there were a person from the season whether they have returned already or not that you would bring back for 50 from this season who would it be what's is there a theme per 50 is just all R returnes like that's I don't I don't think rumor that it's Legends

1:01:36 So I mean even if it's okay so if it's if it's Legends I mean I still have my answer either way but like okay so is there anyone from the season that has returned or not returned that you would want to see on 50 yeah I'm personally enrolling Amanda Kimmel in a public speaking course at her local community college and then I'm inviting her back okay there's a very different response that I have here and because there's two parts to it's would I want to see somebody and who do I expect to see be brought back because I could easily see them bringing back James just because again it's James and he's again that big name even though he hasn't done anything Amanda I can easily see them bringing back Amanda I'd be fine with that I would love like I said before I'd love to see Todd do something in modern New Era Survivor see what he can do with that because we keep forgetting that this is probably what the third season with the actual iteration of what the hidden immunity idol is second season of it and because from before it was you could play it after the votes after V and now it's and it's the current rules of you have to play it before the vote

1:02:57 But or after sorry before the votes are read but yeah I don't see anybody else that I would want to come back I would I would say Todd and I think my biggest reason for wanting Todd of everyone here is the simple fact that Todd was playing against it's very Kim bradin esque where he is playing against a lot of people that don't know the game as well as you know Kim bradlin in one world which we'll talk about in a couple weeks she's playing against a lot of people that don't know the game I would love to see Todd playing in a game where everyone knows how to play or at least has some semblance of how the newer game is played I do feel like and that's one of the reasons I wanted Earl back for winners at war was because I wanted to see Earl Play Even though Earl didn't even know how the game was played in Fiji because he didn't even watch the show I want to see Todd versus people that are in the no just to see how it works if it doesn't work I'm not going to sit there and be like well Todd sucks okay yeah Todd lost whatever yeah as we come to the close I'm gonna get I'm gonna give Survivor China a four out of five which will put it so far okay let's go to the list

1:04:17 I'll be G Survivor China four out of five I'm gonna put it God I'm gonna put it in between Cook Islands and Africa of the first 15 Seasons I've gone so far so for those that have been watching what is it what season is this is China duh from bottom to top I have Thailand Allstars Fiji palao Guatemala Australian Outback Africa China Cook Islands Panama top five are maresis Amazon Borneo vanatu and pearl Islands I wish I could rate China higher but like I said earlier it's using this we're using j z sling but it's mid car Carly I know you watched Survivor Australia I don't know if John does but do you have any comment to that to this oh Australians are I'm so excited I keep looking at Reddit trying to like figure out who's going to be there and I thinking about it's a lot of the people that at least from Australian Survivor that I would want to come back

1:05:38 The women especially they keep having babies so I don't know which ones of them are gonna be back because when my when I first heard it I was like oh I would love to see Liz back who won Australian Survivor Heroes versus Villains but like she's pregnant right now and in September I believe so yeah right like so that's not going to happen and she would be like my one of my number one choices because I would like to see how she does without shaie and King George and then for us Survivor players I am expecting they're gonna have to be people who can one leave home for the length of an Australian Survivor season which is well have you heard the rumor about what they're doing for that no they're not they're not doing many days they're doing like it's going to be very short like shorter than current US Survivor that's the rumor the rumor that's not true I hope it's not true that's one of that's one of the things about Australian Survivor yeah and is it gonna be as physical as Australian Survivor they're longer perod oh yeah I don't know about that I just know the last the last reports were that the US versus Australia version was this going to be like that big brother season that they did in January where it's like

1:06:59 Yeah whereas it's going to be a short because they're going to actually do a real season of Australian Survivor that they're going to film in January so I do I feel like this is just going to be one of those like a mini almost for those of the or Community I feel like this is GNA be more of a mini which I would still I'm still gonna watch it but I don't feel like they're gonna yeah I and I feel like I know I feel like Johnny fair play is gonna I feel like Johnny fair is gonna be there because I think that him and George have a thing oh you're G say fair I was hoping for like a real Australian Survivor season and we just like dropped some us people in there so my thoughts were going to be it's going to have to be people who can be there for a long time and people who are at least majority of the people physically fit enough to handle Australian Survivor but like it doesn't now you're guys are making me think that's not what it's going to be so I don't know cuz if that was the case I was going to say okay well we're going to get like probably Joe most likely yeah not that I want that but probably I expect Azie call I'm highly anticipating Kelly at least getting a

1:08:19 Call I don't know if she'll do it but I expect her to get a call were kind of the three that I had on the top of my mind that I expect to at least be contacted well as we know everyone here at n take you know we do a lot of surv Australian Survivor coverage so I'm sure as the days progress especially as we get closer to September when they're supposed to start filming so like we basically had two months for us to like figure out who's going to be going down there watching who goes ghost on the internet to see who's flying down to Australia I am really excited to watch it you know I do understand that you know it being a shorten season might not be the exact same thing but I'm also all right with that only because my only qual and Carly knows this my only qual with Australian Survivor is there are way too many episodes and the hours are the episodes are like two hours but not actually two hours but and you can't stream it so you have to like hook your laptop up your TV to watch bad quality on Facebook but like those are all like very nitpicky things I do actually really enjoy alra Survivor you see some someone like Malcolm yes yeah you bring

1:09:39 Mal on my list Malcolm hasn't overstay his welcome we haven't seen him since game changers but like he wasn't around long enough for G in game changers for us to like be annoyed at another comeback I think that we all have our thoughts on who we don't want to see on Australian Survivor at all and it's basically just anyone that's come back and actually yeah we're not talking about China anymore Carly and John thank you so much for coming on and do this you two John me and John were playing in a game when I asked him to do this Carly I reached out to you I think you may have been second or third as far as people I reached out to you and say hey you know when are we doing this and I'm glad you picked this season in particular I don't think right now I don't think we have Carly on schedule for another season before this is done John ready to go to Europe I don't I'm not on but I'll be back I'll come back anytime you want me to harass anybody okay but thank you both so much thank you everyone in the chat as always I'm G to start Micronesia probably like midnight probably catch up on sports or something until then on something for that but yes and we will see you all on the other side no