Survivor 41 Review

0:01 And welcome back to day 41 of Survivor 46 and 46 Erica just won Survivor 41 on the island for the first time since season 1 back in the summer of 2000 this season will always have a special place for me and I feel like for a lot of Survivor fans because of when it happened and I think that does add to the overall Narrative of the season and we're going to talk all about that today I have a large panel today because I do feel like this is a very big moment in Survivor history starting with Brian then we have Wes and Karen and just going from the beginning and I'm gonna I'm going to switch things up a little bit today as far as how' you feel when the first season air when the season aired what I'm instead I'm going to do is Karen when Survivor fin first came back like when it came back after a year of us you know being separated from it were you were you anxious were you nervous or did you just I don't give a [ __ ] I just want Survivor back in my TV so I had been in so I live in Chile so the there were lock like real lockdowns here like not allowed to leave my apartment more than twice a week for months and months and months even in 2021 when this aired

1:22 The borders just opened in August so like one month before 40 started so as soon as the borders opened I had like plane tickets or whatever but then I'm like oh that coincides with 141 premieres I'm going to go to a Premiere party because this has been such a big part of my quarantine life like it was I mean I don't know what I would have done without the orgs and just watching seasons and meeting people like it was just a huge part of my life and it still is so like just being able to go and see it happen live and be with Johnny Fairplay and other super fans it was just an incredible experience and it was emotional too like I'm not too emotional of a person typically maybe in private like I'm very sensitive but you know I'm a robot but when I rewatched this first episode I could feel you know how you sometimes you feel stuff there that's how I felt watching it again I was like oh W like this is just I remember how I felt when it aired and it was just so special for it to be back and I was so happy that it was back yeah and before we move on I would say that yeah I was also at a premier

2:42 Party I was out in New York City for this one and was still when I was I had money to spend so as the clock starts to tick down I get to like 750 and I'm asking anyone's like hey do you want a shot for8 o'clock and I probably spent about $200 on just shots for that 8:00 Jeff walking onto the screen and I remember that entire Place blows up and I felt the same way where I got fairly emotional of Jeff to saying you know hey I miss you guys this that and the other it's like when I rewatched the episode the next day I was like okay that's corny but I don't care because we're back Wes as I feel like more than any other season going into this one I feel there was a lot of pregame press I feel like there was a lot of pregame analysis of what was going to happen in the season I feel like everyone knew about everything as far as who was going to be playing and I felt like everyone would read the edit of the trailers to figure out when certain people were going to go out so for you going into the season did you put much stock into everything that was going on you know going into it or were you just did you try to go in as fresh as possible so this was kind of an interest like season for me because

4:03 It was the first season I watched live since marus wow okay so like I watched one through four as a kid and then like I started like baseball and scouts or whatever conflicted we didn't have too forgot about Survivor till Co and then I watched it all and I watched it all and then I played orgs and then like got part of the Survivor and or communities so I was in the thick of it in terms of reading every single piece of media that came out about 41 and cast assessments and like playing Survivor pools and stuff like that and I ended up picking Erica as my like Survivor pool so I a strong rooting interest from the jump the hat to you Brian this Premiere oh I don't want to really talk about the premiere as of yet but for you did you did you do anything special for it first of all but secondly did you kind of watch the premiere with no matter how bad or good this is I'm G to love it because it's Survivor back on the TV and I just finally realized that you addressed this JD I thought those were headphones at first and I finally caught on but yeah did

5:23 You did you feel like there was no way they could screw this up only because we have Survivor back or did you try to go in with a clear mind of I could not like it I could like it well first of all this is not I appreciate you think it's JD but I was trying more for the broccoli of it all with yeah but I anything special for the premiere necessarily it was Co I was locked down unfortunately I could not get anywhere but I watched it from cover from my house and it was a comfort show is my favorite show and just to have it back Survivor to me is like pizza even if it's there's no bad Survivor in my opinion it's like even Thailand my least favorite season I'd watch over a lot of other non-reality shows and just to have Survivor back and the main thing that I heard coming into the season listen our hat was the Diversified cast which it's the first season with the new diversity mandate 50% PC which I think is really good it's been a long time coming this is overdue but better late than ever but glad it's here this makes the season really good in my opinion and I was really excited for it just has Survivor on our screen again after we'll be experienced a lifechanging event like Co it was amazing yeah and going off of that I've mentioned this beforehand I think maybe during mares but I am a

6:43 Part of the U the Survivor diversity campaign on Twitter and when to see to see what we did come to fruition not only with Survivor but I even watched big brother for you know after Co because of that I still haven't watched The Amazing Race but I'm sure they did it on there too it was nice to see a diverse cast and a cast of fans we have a cast of fans this season and I think that one thing with the season that you know it kind of gets I feel like unnecessarily [ __ ] on because of the amount of emotion that goes into the season but if you watch it in a bubble and you realize what these people just went through for the last year I get it and watching it today I was like no I get it because I you know Jeff coming out of the woods like Yep this is this is where thing there's going to be a tonal shift this season so you know I understood why we got a lot of players Back stories I understood why people would just have random really emotional really vulnerable moments this season I got it be specifically in this season because a lot of us had PTSD from things that had happened over the last year and a half up to that point and for them they get out of lockdown then immediately go play Survivor where they're going to be out there manipulating or

8:04 Whatever you go from not talking to many people to talking with people that are lying to your face taking advantage of a lot of things it's going to mess with you psychologically no matter what because we've seen that happen with players preco Karen do you think you know for this season and for the next few seasons from there do you feel like it's do I want to say fair whatever we'll say fair do you think it's a it's a fair part on the on production to show these players in these vulnerable moments or do you think that they should have okay yeah we already know they're going to be vulnerable let's show them doing the other stuff if that makes sense I think you made a really good point about referencing where we came from at that moment and in that like thinking of it in that way it makes a lot more sense watch watching it for the first time I kind of felt like Jeff wanted to change things I felt like they wanted to like they wanted new editing Styles I remember like Australian Survivor will do those types of editing but it's not their only focus I feel like in 41 or even in the new era in general maybe early New Era it's a very heavy

9:24 Focus but I don't know that I think it's hard for Jeff and production to know what the fans want to watch some people like really emotional shows and like to see people vulnerable and connect to people in that way other people just want to be entertained and watch funny moments and manipulation and you know fake idols and stuff so I think it's hard to make the whole fan base happy because we all watch it for different reasons yeah and what I'll say with and what I'll say with that is Jeff does come off I mean he's not he's no longer dick Jeff in this season so that we have that we no longer have dick Jeff this season we do have pandering Jeff and I'm gonna get to that we have pandering Jeff and we have goofy Jeff you know all of his little comments that he makes before people walk into the challenges or into tribals is like this is so stupid but I once again I don't care because we have Survivor back and even today it's like no I'm going to remove me thinking that it's stupid right now because I know my mindset was during that point I do agree with you that they definitely changed a lot of the editing for the season to the point where you see cameramen when they're walking into challenges and you they don't they you see them when they

10:44 Go to ship whe Island you can sign of see them filming as they as they walk up the hill I think that there are certain things to the season editing wise at work there are some that obviously don't and we'll talk about that and there are lot of twists this season that are introduced Wes we're going to start we're going to start with you know the fact that it is 26 days which at this point made sense we're going to start with the fact that we are introduced in the first episode to oh my gosh the die what's the die shot in the dark shot in the dark yeah shot in the dark I forgot to when you asked shot in the dark we're introduced to shot in the dark we're introduced 26 days and we're introduced to hey because it's 26 days we're just going to try to kill you for 26 days we're not going to give you anything and if you lose we're going to take your Flint did you feel like they had to do this because of the like do you feel like this was always going to be the plan as far not 26 days let's try to kill these people or did you feel like because they changed it 26 days we have to make it so hard on them that no one can sit there and say this isn't the same because they don't get anything yeah I mean Jeff has a track record of anytime they like level up

12:04 Or change an era of being like I'm gonna throw something at the wall to see if it sticks and like I think because he scrapped so much of what was his original game plan like when he had that like intervention from Mike White like he kind of dialed it back not back but really wanted to prove to the audience that we can still have a really tough game even if it is two weeks shorter and I think because he wanted to prove that's where you get the allstars type oh you're just starting with a pot and a machete but we're going to add a layer where you have to earn that and we'll take your Flint we'll do all this and because you're not here as long our doctors okayed us to go get put you through nutritional hell and Brian going off of that you know we get this whole thing where you know because it's a shorten season everything is sped up every like you don't have time you don't have much more time to make those social bonds and we will learn

13:24 Later that they're not going to do a swap and as we have seen through most of the 40 Seasons there is usually one tribe that just kind of completely shits the bed and there's usually one tribe that does very well do you just in this in this one season do you feel like a lot of these twists without going too into specifics do you feel like a lot of these twists and a lot of these changes to the game help or H helped or hindered a lot of the actual gameplay that we're shown here first of all I don't mind a good twist emphas on the good most of these were not good the Do or Die The Hourglass was atrocious but I do worry full talk about the hour bus I think it affected the game playay even the 26 days affected the gameplay I feel like I believe Xander had a confessional about it 26 days is sure I need more time something to effective I need to do more flashy things I need to make big moves which he didn't end up doing but it has the effect on people's mindset I think the 26 Day game and yeah okay so we go and I obviously I want to touch on what happens on the boat because I do think this is so and this is just my opinion I think if Jeff

14:44 Had just said or if Jeff had just not made reference to the fact that it's going to be come on in now I think that a lot of the backlash that specifically Ricard got would have like it wouldn't have we wouldn't have even noticed I guarantee people wouldn't have even noticed but because they made it they gave basically two segments to it I and they gave two segments to it with Jeff really trying to push this narrative home of hey I've changed I'm different now I and we start to get inklings of that in season 40 with the whole Sarah Lina tribal where she's talking about the gender bias and Jeff's like oh yes I know that I used to be a piece of [ __ ] but like I've changed now because I have a wife and kid I think that continues with this season where he kind of it comes off his I used this word yesterday it comes off as Hollow with what he's saying now I think that the broader thing I understand and I appreciate it's just more because it's coming from him and because it seems like he's just trying to have a TV moment instead of an actual moment it comes off as Hollow on my end and I feel like the backlash should not have been directed at Ricard because I could have e easily fixed that by just not showing that aspect and just showing Jeff

16:05 Just saying come on in and it wouldn't have been that big of is that Karen is that fair foul for me to have that type of opinion or so like okay personally like I believe Jeff when he says he wants to learn and blah and he's Chang whatever I can feel it I believe it however H it's super cringy and you also have to think about how it's not just TV shows news social media in general everything is driven by engagement and outrage drives engagement so if you make people feel outraged they will engage with you more now is that good for the long term of the show I personally don't think so but I think maybe the idea was to incite some outrage people because they know a lot of the audience is you know conservative America who's not going to like that so I believe that was the intention because they could have just changed it and moved on no one would have noticed no one would and I'm glad you brought that up because I'm gonna get this out of the way now and I know Wes has his own part of this but before the season aired on the network I used to work for

17:26 We did a panel going into the season and we had fcking Russell Hance on it who I everyone that has listening to this knows I'm not a fan of in both game and real life I think it's piece of [ __ ] anyway he belligerently drunk on it and after we're done so he on the show he says basically I don't plan on watching 41 and we kind of just leave it alone so after the show I felt like oh yeah I'm just GNA poke the bear and to see what happens and basically he sat there for about 30 minutes talking about how oh just look at the cast and tell me it's not wol and I'm just like what is what does that mean he's like I just feel like this is gonna be a woke season just look at look at just look at it I'm just like you understand you're talking to a brown like you were talking to someone of color do you not understand how this might make me feel like I was having fun with it because he's [ __ ] but I know that was a lot there was a lot of is 41 the best no but for me I always felt like a lot of the people that don't like the season are you know those conservative-minded people that Karen brought up

18:46 Wes first of all I want you to talk about the video that you watched but secondly do you feel like do you feel like the hatred for the season comes from just those or do you feel like there are actual big problems with the season that does keep it lower on a lot of people's personal rankings yeah I mean I think that when somebody is critiquing this season because I know we'll get into all the things to critique about this season like if somebody's complaining about the cast that's a signal to me that they weren't invested in the game itself and like that's where like my interest in their critique significantly drops because like I think this is one of the strongest casts not just of the new era but like of a lot of seasons like in Survivor history and just in terms of like dedication to the game Charisma just dumb [ __ ] I since 30 as far as newbie Seasons I put this you know not above David vers goath or anything like that but like it's in the better half of this era it's better than ghost Island when it comes to the cast it's better than HHH when it comes to the cast I can't remember those people's names

20:06 And I just watched those earlier this week late last week didn't mean to cut you off but keep on going no I appreciate that because like that to me is the distinction like if somebody's like oh 41 is relatively weak because of like just twist that kind of out of the you know heart of Survivor being a social game like I think those are really valid but yeah like the comment gave saying it's the edit more than anything and when people say I mean we'll get into the who deserves to win nonsense but like going back to the Russell h of it all I put it upon myself to be like all right I'm going to be talking the season up I'm gonna watch probably the most negative thing I can find without going into a very dark side of YouTube and I decided to watch Russell hans's reaction and in the video he admits he only watched the premiere in the finale so that's fun and even in that he's like oh Xander definitely should have won and I did think it was funny that Russell was humble enough to say he's like I think that Erica would have beaten

21:26 The game that I played in my first Seasons anyone would have but it's already yeah but I was shocked that he admitted that but he's still bitter enough where he's like but she played better than Natalie or Sandra and I was like all right sure do your own thing and but he was like but Xander should have won like he did all this stuff and like he didn't list anything like yeah Xander had some good moments then like nothing's really a knock on Xander but like you compare it to people who were driving things and oh yeah that's sure yeah don't worry I'm just gonna scroll through the comments like you're good yeah I just always read those but yeah to kind of summarize that I feel like a lot of the vitriol that's thrown at quote unquote woke Survivor is oh people are talking about the real world and again that goes back literally to season one but you know the world has changed and social media has made people almost I don't like to use the word empowered because they already had power but you know it gave shitty people louder voices and I think that's where a lot of this backlash

22:46 Is rooted and I and everyone that has been tuning in throughout the last week and a half I said that and it's very apparent if you do a rewatch like I do but if you do a rewatch a lot of the stuff of even the twists the twists Jeff doing his pandering thing a lot of real world topics being brought into the show starts way before 41 I would say that it probably starts around 31 maybe 32 and then we just kind of take off from there I feel like because and this is you know Fair foul whatever I feel like because the only difference between 41 and the last newbie season which is 39 is the fact that we have it the fact that it's more colorful because 39 had two or three tribals where they talked about a lot of real world situations obviously we go back to you know we go back to situations where things are being brought outside the game into the and it I feel like it's they keep it there because they want it to resonate with the audience but for some reason there's this backlash that happens after 40 where all of a sudden people are like oh yeah this isn't this isn't my

24:07 Survivor or people will say oh yeah I'd still rather watch Island the idols over 41 it's like well you're crazy because I as someone that's tried to stay as non tried to watch it with fresh eyes every time I watch it I can't watch island of the idols without getting sick at a certain point you know it's just it is what it is and people kind of for get that the tribal right before [ __ ] hits the fan in that season is a very much a talk about the MEO movement and about well it's mostly Kelly and Jamal talking about how you know we feel like this is going on in the real world and this that and the other people you know weren't so gung-ho about hating that because what happens next but here and we're going to talk about that final seven tribal soon I feel like there was nothing that the season could have done for those folks to make them you know not hate the season people like our boy Russell Brian on the other end of that and we're going to start talking about the other negative things to this season first do you like shot in the dark this is very raise your hand if you like shot in the dark yes I do okay two do you think

25:29 I always try to figure out how to frease these things because without showing my bias until I start talking about it we'll go with did it did it feel like they were trying to do too much too soon do you feel like if they had spread out a lot of these things throughout the Five Seasons that we've gotten that it would have been more accepted or do you feel like they just felt like hey we have to throw everything out there now to immediately get our audience back who was already coming back anyway because they needed Survivor I think that they should have spread it out you're absolutely right they should have spread it out but the reason I believe that they did this we all were in Co and lockdown and I believe they were stewing on so many ideas and they just wanted to throw everything out there and kind of brand this as a more they brand as a more dangerous game quote unquote I mean and the twist affect that whether For Better or Worse mostly worse but comparing this to something like island of the idols I'd rather watched this because this doesn't have problematic stuff that just doesn't taint the whole season like Island idols and so this isn't even that bad it's just production is messing too much too many they have too much hand in the game and they can add some twist it's their game but it's just too much too soon like you said and I'm going to stick with you because you are dressed as broccoli apparently

26:49 I think and I tweeted this out earlier the three things that have made me cringe the most through these 41 days so far where I felt physically ill were one David Murphy at the Redemption Island reunion two anytime someone set the phrase fig tals and Xander having to say that phrase I think three times to the point where I would turn my TV down because I just I couldn't I couldn't deal with hearing those words coming out of his mouth and watching Jeff and this infinite just like oh I don't know what's going on weird that you said that it's like yeah Jeff you made him say it did you like the new twist to the idol this SE like I the we Advantage I'm fine with and I'm glad they've changed this aspect of it but did you feel like this was a creative way I guess of having people earn an idol well first of all I know you know this everyone on the panel knows this but Jeff can't give anything away that's why he's acting surprised because that's a Twist that they decided to implement but I did actually like this because no one was expecting it and they wanted the production I believe wanted fun moments and it comes at the cost that people knowing presumably if you have information knowing whose Idols is out there which combining that with knowledge's power in the same season

28:10 I'm not a fan of but production decided that for some reason but yeah I did like the phrases because they weren't expecting them and I don't think they can ever bring it back or can they if somebody went on a future Survivor season they could gamify try to say something like weird phrase at the match at and potentially get people to think they have an idol it just adds a new layer to the game that they don't need this again in my opinion I'd be it'd be fun if they had it but I like that they had it in this n42 that's I don't mind it the be wear Advantage was that and the shot in the dark are the two of the twists that I lik and we'll get into the other ones later that are terrible but yeah and the other one that I was like I felt like it was just harmless cuz it wasn't really about the game it was the game within a game thing they had on the boxes and everything which I totally forgot about I forgot about that until today it's like oh yeah it's for the kids at home to like play and I never played it because I'm not a kid but also I just I'm stupid and I could I couldn't figure it out the other twist Prem merge that I really appreciated was the if you didn't win that first challenge that you had to do you know either carrying the water or solving the

29:32 Puzzle Karen in that situation which one would you have taken personally like would I be the one responsible yeah as probably The Savvy because I like I don't want to be like gassed for the challenge you know yeah I would say that but yeah but I think it I see what like people are saying in the comments too it's just so many twists and one and I think that to me says that they don't have confidence in their cast and like sure maybe sometimes things aren't always spicy and you need other things to get things moving but yeah that's a lot at once but the those introductory challenges like the sweat and Savvy I think they're fine for the first couple but I don't I don't feel they're necessary anymore feel we've exhausted that personally but that's later Seasons this is 41 I think it's fine because you get some interaction from people you get like V saying like hey I'm going to be the one that needs to do the sweat so I don't want to do that's stupid

30:52 And even when you ask me that I'm like am i g to be the one that has to do the sweat because I don't want to do that but if I'm on the tribe No One's Gonna expect me to do the sweat so yeah I'm gonna vote for that like sure you go off and yeah you guys have fun with that I'm gonna go build camp and we do get you know the first moments of the Deshawn Danny or Duo you know it's the first real Duo that we see established the other two Duos in the season being Ricard and Shan and Eric and Heather and moment from nir thinking that Danny and Des are looking for Idol I think it brought some stuff we got we got some fun stuff from it yeah I think that this cast as a whole they pref even early boots like JD was were so much so much fun to watch I know and Abraham you know Abraham being the first boot my winner pick by the way I think Abraham to win good job and so we have this Prem merge where we do I mean we do eventually just have a tribe just get decimated but it's not portrayed the way that it is in Philippines and it's not portrayed the way it is in palal or any other season it's

32:12 I feel like it's shown as yeah they are absolutely going to bounce back because we've got these two driving forces of Ricard and Shan and I feel like they are the antithesis of Dom and Wendell it's very clear that these two people do not trust each other for most of the game if not all of the game we are introduced to and Karen we're going to stick with you with this what did you think of the Shen Ricard Dynamic premerge and what did you think of Shan period as a character so on the so okay so before rewatching thinking back I'm just like I've had enough of shen whatever right but on the rewatch I'm just like shanon's great like she's a great character I think the issue turned out to be it was just a bit of an overdose it was just so much Shan and that comes down to my problem with the three tribe format is you get so much emphasis on like one or two people and then you completely miss out on other people and we this is a huge problem in 41 is because luu just won the whole time we barely see anything and then like the edit in general for Erica it's just a little

33:32 I understand why people are confused and even watching it back I'm like I mean I can kind of see it but it's just so much focused on Shannon Ricard which they're great characters and they're smart and strategic and it I don't know I think shann is probably even though I feel overdosed on her probably one of the best like characters in casting that we've seen because it's really rare to get someone who is very strategic and will and willing to just like cut people but also have that ability to connect deeply with people and that I think is like who the best players are people who have that ability but also those types of players can be polarizing because it's like oh if you're able to connect so deeply how can you do that but I think I think she's great I just it was just a lot this time around so obviously the shantam is my favorite I love the shanton the point where Heather catches her humming the song what are you huming nothing I'm just thinking was great I didn't realize until this time around that not only like I obviously I realize that every now and then they'll have it playing in the background what I didn't realize until today

34:53 Is they did remixes of it to make it sound sometimes they make it sound more menacing sometimes they sound more cheerful it's like oh my God they really leaned into the shantam I feel like this time watching sh because I like I like fun villains that are not pieces of [ __ ] R some hands so I like people like Abby Maria because it's just like oh man she's just crazy it's fun with Shen I feel like she was a fun villain because her Dynamic with theard were they are pretty much a villainous Duo she's still just like hey just give me the extra vote so I know like give me back the extra vote so I know and was like you mean do exactly what you just did to JD even though you're not gonna I don't think you're GNA V out rard here but like you're getting so upset with Ricard here and watching their Dynamic and Ricard saying hey when they when he finally votes out Shan like hey we knew that we were gonna get to this point and we gave each other permission and all that Shan a lot watching it this time it felt like Shan and it's ironic because she calls deshun out for being overly emotional at points I feel like Shen and not talking about like real life emotional just talking about game emotional I feel like Shen had a lot of emotional moments this season game related that annoyed me I feel like it annoyed me Wes do you feel

36:13 Like did you feel that way watching Shen this time around that like a lot of it just came off or did you like no that's this that is Shen that like I that Shan period it's really fascinating watch watching Shen Prem merge versus merge because Prem merge Shan never really faed any hardship after Brad said he might vote for her to her face like that was the hardest thing for her to overcome for the first like what like 11 days I forget when they merged they yeah around halfway so like 13ish I believe yeah so like she didn't really have to deal with any like game adver so like she seemed very open and aggressive in Pre merge and then in you know post merge where she had to actually balance more than four people's emotions at any one time she would talk a lot of trash about people having a hard time cutting people and Deshawn obviously took the brunt of that because he was one of the most expressive people out there and like he was very open about like wanting to be included and wanting

37:33 To get his voice heard and it was very interesting to watch Shan have to adapt to be like oh it's not just the me it's not just the Shan Ricard show anymore other people exist like I forget what that word is where you realize other people have similar lived experiences or different lived experiences but to see her realize that in like real time during like the during the Sydney boot was really fascinating and then especially during the Tiffany boot when Deshawn kind of started shutting down and she like kind of snapped at him yeah so like you could see that he was ultimately kind of I don't want to say deshaun's why Shan lost but her inability to respect Deshawn's approach to the game was really what cost her in the end I think do you think that her like maybe the hunger and like getting days into the game because I think the first merge part she's very good player oh very good but then as we get into the merge that's where you start to see her flaws and then it eventually comes back to get her but I wonder if it's if it's the hunger and the

38:53 Being tired aspect and just being tired of being around all these people all the time I wonder if that's what gets her in the end or if she is a flawed player and we just didn't see it at first I think I think the battle with attrition like hunger is undefeated in Survivor so like just wanted food like I do think that Shan had some weak spots in her game that her starting tribe helped her mask really well because she sequenced her vote outs almost perfectly where it caused very little not no Strife because obviously When Brad goes jeie has a hard time with it but that's the only real time she faces a consequence for voting someone out from someone who wasn't voted out and then that combination of that mental and physical attrition with like doubling number of interaction she has to manage to the point where she like really can't manage that many people really speaks to her approach to the game where she wants to manage everyone and you can't do that early merge

40:14 That's too many people to manage yeah I want to quickly talk like I want to W wrap up the premerge and I will say the only the only thing I left have to say about shann is she Gass up the [ __ ] out of G during his during his boot episode my god it's Tom Westman levels of gaslighting in that sitation but Brian the other twist introduced in the premerge is ship wheel Island which is another thing that I actually did enjoy watching this time around and they made they not only did they introduce chip will Island pre merge they introduced a whole other twist where it was just one time where they have to pick get picked up and go to a ship wheel at night and so once again it's just like we're being thrown all these things at once but did you did you like the idea of shipwell Island this season especially with the fact that we don't get a swap oh yeah certainly I love that it creates interactions between people that wouldn't be able to interact if they didn't make it to the merge and on different tribes so I definitely like that I think I feel they did it a little too constantly it was every round and the one where they got picked up at night is like essentially the same thing as the other ones except the other tribes aren't choosing

41:34 And I like this I love that they had I love the Shan and lyanna moment for their Summit yeah but I like that they have the sometimes they have two people and I like that better than three people because they can really create genuine one-on ones and see how these players are interacting only I can remember Omar and Shan Shantel that did it in season 42 but this shanana has to be one of the best Journey that in my memory of yeah I loved that scene and we're going to touch on the racial aspect of the game a little later but I love them you know getting a chance to just talk about their family lives and everything on a totally different note my favorite Mo moment of the pre merge and no one has brought it up yet and that's because I haven't let I haven't asked the question but my favorite moment of the pre merge is the reveal that nir has found the idol when he just interjects in front of Jeff and he says the phrase I think it's the astro turf one I think he had the astro turf one it's such a great moment and one thing like one thing that they did this season that I really enjoy was is the flashbacks the even if it's like 20 minutes ago the fact that they just go back and like yeah this is what happened oh yeah me Genie and jeie and not Peter hary he reminds me of Peter hary the old guy

42:55 Brad yes they find they find the idol yeah he reminds me of Peter hary for some reason I don't know why he's like a very tall Peter yeah he doesn't talk how he's holy though thank goodness my favorite moment is the nere moment and I feel like I know all of y'all have pointed out the fact that this cast not only is a cast diverse everyone has for the most part has their own unique characteristics where you can tell them apart I can't do that with HHH I can't do that with ghost Island there are some Seasons pre-30s that I can't do that with but specifically with this season everyone and I think it's because we get all of their stories but also because they are different enough outside of just being super fans they're different enough it's like okay I can attach myself to this person I to that person and so we hit the merge okay it's time to talk about it's time to talk about this mess so I understand that Jeff you know Jeff has said they're going to earn everything this SE I get it you know it's 26 days Everything Has Changed we're gonna make this hard on them I get it even when they're coming into the merg challenge

44:15 The and him talking to the camera like oh yeah this might ruffle a little bit of feather of some people's feathers it's like oh [ __ ] what are they going to do and watching it today I'm like yep you sure did pissed off about this so we get there and he's like oh yeah it's not really a merge it's a I didn't realize that Xander coined the phrase Meritor oh no he yeah I think he said merory but we get the two splits and we get nir and Erica over here and we're gonna figure out what happens to them next one group wins they are officially on the merg tribe and then Erica goes off to Exile Island and we get I would say the worst Twist of the 40s and besides things like The Medallion of power might be the worst twist ever I always want to call it a Time Turner it's not a Time Turner it's good name for it what is the name of it The Hourglass The Hourglass twist and this looks like the time Turner from Harry Potter and I should just put on a pendant spin it The Hourglass twist and the worst part about The Hourglass twist to me and Karen I'm going to get to you the worst part of The Hourglass twist to me is that they made

45:35 It into a two-part episode when it didn't need to be in fact the second half of the episode I decided to take a 10-minute power na because I was tired but also I was like I'm literally not missing I know people like to say oh yeah edge of Extinction you can watch the person at last episode and you don't miss anything it's like that's not true here you're not actually missing anything because nothing that happens here matters at all K this is this is very much unless you have like an extremely hot take on it what did you think of the hourl I okay I just believe certain things should be sacred in Survivor like sure expect the unexpected but if you win individual immunity it cannot be taken away and any future twist that takes away way individual immunity people should Riot about because there's already enough anxiety even hind immunity idols aren't sacred anymore there's Idol nullifiers so they all like please just give people some out of the anxiety like individual immunity or team immunity whatever so I just feel that The Hourglass twist messed with a sacred part

46:55 That should not be messed with and Survivor so if that wasn't the case then whatever but you can't tell people and I wish they would have shown I saw a comment somebody said what exactly what I was thinking I wish they would have shown Danny's reaction to that because apparently he had quite the yep yeah thing to say to Jeff about it so like I agree I think they should have showed that too and it's actual [ __ ] you know people like to [ __ ] about how certain players are robbed and everyone knows my opinion on that you can't be robbed in a in a show that you're supposed to do I agree go ahead Karen one more thing to add is they didn't even really make it a choice for Erica like why would she not do it if she's not going to be immune like of course I choose immunity like of course fact they end the episode with they end the episode with a cliffhanger of like oh what she gonna do it's like really like are we are we really going to sit here and just be like oh yeah I want I can't wait until the next episode to figure out what Erica's going to do with this hourglass where she becomes immune you had your hand up but yeah I just wanted to say a slight tweak to make this slightly better in my opinion is the challenge still happens but Erica gets immunity what no matter what but she decides to take it away from that team

48:16 Or put get or give immunity to the other team you know it's still atrocious because you canally take away someone's immunity but she has a decision and the yeah we wait it would have been that would have been way better yeah that would have been way better so but we get what we get Erica smashes The Hourglass plot twist and all of a sudden you know we get to a point and I want to talk about we can make this the Erica's segment because I know that the a lot of the comments here a lot of the comments from you3 and a lot of the comments about this the season from the non Xander folk are the fact that Erica is just heavily under edited and I think this continues to fall into the category of Survivor does not know how to edit social winners and it's even worse this season unless you do a rewatch where watching it today and this is my third time watching it now the amount of times people bring up Erica being a threat goes all the way back to episode two yeah keep saying Erica is a threat ER is a threat the fact that they tried to throw two challenges or at least brought up throwing two challenges they tried to throw one just to get rid of her and then we hit the merge

49:36 And there's almost every other episode there's someone saying Erica's a threat Erica's a threat at final four Heather both tell Xander yeah Erica's a threat and he's like no no she's fine and then Erica sits there and she's like hey I think you should s me take me to the end he's like yeah just come on yeah we're good let's go it's it's crazy that people that have watched this more than once can actually sit there and say oh yeah we're never it's all it's the Xander like how does Xander lose like I understand that she's still under edited but if You' watched the season more than once you understand how Xander loses and you also understand that perception wise Erica is the threat outside of Shan and r you know and nir goes early enough that like he you know he's a social threat there so and this is this an open forum for this one watching it I know all three of you have watched it either like today or within the last week or so watching it this time around did you pick up on a lot of these hints that Erica like obviously knowing that she wins but did you pick up on a lot of these hints that okay yeah I can see how she won this

50:56 Yeah like you see obviously the biggest one is when Deshawn and Danny try to throw and like nir just goes into overdrive and then of course Erica is the one to find the key and it keeps cutting to commentary from Deshawn of we can't catch a break we can't throw this Challenge and then you know in the episode that didn't matter you'd see Sydney oh Erica has to go first Erica has to go first and like I think that I don't want to say the editors did a good job but like they didn't do as bad of a job because they were you know consistently putting in those breadcrumbs it's a bad example of because they were telling rather than showing but they were putting in those bread crumbs so it shouldn't have been as big of a Blind Side so I think the pre-merge trying to throw a challenge to get rid of Erica to me just I felt like she was a bad player if people want to throw a challenge to get rid of you I mean obviously things happen or whatever that doesn't mean you're an overall

52:16 Bad player but she made some errors that she was able to overcome but to me that didn't make me think oh this is why she was such a good winner it made me think oh she had a really flawed game and this is partly why people don't think she deserves to win if people were trying to get rid of her this far in advance because it wasn't it wasn't the edit of it was like why are you throwing out a name before you lost a challenge in Prem merg Survivor that's just to me an amateur mistake and it almost came back to biter however as we get into the merge as you were saying people keep talking about what a threat she is but the edits not showing us why people aren't saying necessarily why but it's definitely something I picked up on the rewatch like she's a threat she's a threat we need to get rid of her all this stuff but because of the pre-merge section it made me think that maybe she just wasn't connecting socially with people and people just didn't like her but it's really hard to tell from the edit but with the way that she won in a landslide there was much more to it which I wish we could see for me I go

53:36 Quality over quantity she didn't get a lot of confessionals season not as much as she deserved but ep the confessional she was giving she showed she had a good mind for the game and I liken her to a winner like Michelle in the aspect of they both didn't go to tribal until the merge and they both the fans the general audience didn't believe they deserve the win and I think Erica could have the same trajectory should she come back I know we'll get to that but I think Erica was very smart and she was on the right side of every vote so I understand why she wins and Deshawn like we'll get to Desa but I understand why Erica wins and she was always right for my opinion well yeah I mean she votes correctly every single time and she is one vote away like I vote voting Records really don't matter to me but like she does bring it up so I have to point it out but I think the more telling thing is she doesn't receive any votes period throughout the game and she is one vote you know one Deshawn vote away from playing a perfect game this season which is crazy to think about Wes you didn't she catch two at the Sham did she oh yeah she did she did she did she yeah she got yeah y That's correct

54:56 But I mean it's very impressive social game yes strike what I just said almost but go going off of that you know going into the merch Erica is definitely she's never on the bottom like she likes to portray herself as on the bottom but she's never actually on the bottom there's she's always in the know about everything that's going on people know that her and Heather are Duo just like they know about these other two Duos that are sitting here on the beach yet people really don't call it out until Deshawn does during that tribal and we're going to get to that but I what I what I want to touch on now and you know because we have a panel of non poc's I'm just but I do I do want I do want to tou touch on this because I do feel like that final seven tribal well everything that leads up to that final seven tribal but also just that final seven tribal is you know obviously resonates with me and resonate with me again today so this is happening right around when big brother is airing and we have the cookout on Big Brother whatever number that was and I remember the internet calling this the camp out which I thought was a very cute name and I do feel

56:17 Like At first the four of them really wanted to work together and I think that obviously what happens is Sean and Danny side they want to go after Ricard they tell lyanna feels closer with Shan lyanna tells Shan wants to Target to Shawn and then the wheels kind of fall off on the alliance and that it's understandable that happens we get to you know we get we get a couple and we get to that final seven and Deshawn has shows a moment of vulnerability of a moan of sadness of like hey I didn't want to do this you know it is harder for us out here especially with everything that's going on in the real world for y'all and we'll just go in order again did you care about oh did you care about one that them trying to work together did you care about that Tri and if you if you don't you can you can say it I know all of y'all pretty well I know that y'all are not monsters so like if you no actually hated do you feel like it made sense based off what you obviously was going on in the real world but also because of what the casting

57:37 Was now did you feel like they there was this almost obligation because Erica even brings it up I hated voting out LNA because I want a woman to win this season what are your thoughts on just how race and gender I guess played into the season as a whole I think whether we like to think about it or not it plays a role in everything in life so and Survivor is a reflection of life I mean the edit chooses to show us what it does and this time it chose to show us that so is it uncomfortable for some people sure but does it I mean there's a reason we see it happen on Big Brother and Survivor at the same time like they didn't watch each other it was a reflection of what's going on in the world people are finally starting to talk about it and feeling comfortable and sharing and I mean whether people want to admit it or not if you're like you know the standard hetero white person and you're thrown in a room and you're there's three or four others who look like you and everyone else is different it's just natural human tendency to group to people who look like you or who you might feel

58:57 Connected with it's human nature it is not anything weird no we are humans and have the ability to like think more and over overcome that if that's a problem so I think the great thing about Survivor and why I think it's a more complex game than big brother is we see the struggle and like this is what I want to do like for life and this is how I feel in my life but this is also a game and like we did see the struggle in big brother too but I personally think big brother is not as complex of a game so it worked there whereas in Survivor you see why none of these all women's alliances ever work or why the camp out didn't work like there's reasons why these things don't work in Survivor because the game is so complex and that's why it's so irritating every time the oh no there's going to be an all woman's Alliance gets thrown out for the same reason it's like up this season like yeah it always comes up and it's like it's a more complex game and if you just take it down to anything whether it's all women's race whatever

1:00:17 It is I think you're not looking at the whole game I and I agree and watching it today here because I forgot that Danny brought it up that being afraid of all women's thing because I thought that was a that was a thing that we left in the past yeah someone correct me if I'm wrong I don't think I am but I could be there have been three that we are shown on TV three all women's alliances that were like we're doing this vanatu Micronesia and one world and two of those seasons were divided men versus women so it's just the same is staying thei strong except where you started with all women in the situation so the fact that is still a fear this season is weird and I'm wait what's up I said it's sexism it's it is Kelly points it out in 39 and you know and here it's iron because I do feel like people probably saw the four of them as a group but they didn't want to show that because the Optics probably like I don't think people would have been ready

1:01:38 For hearing Xander or Heather or somebody saying oh I think they have an all black Alliance I don't think they would want to show that but they're also not stupid like they have to see that is probably what's going on I think the safest person would have been Erica or Ricard saying that on screen Brian with all of that you know being said and this is and this is more of open form with this but I'm going to go with Brian West First do we all come from the or Community we all come from the or community and you know for me there aren't many straight black males in the community but I'm one of them and I always try to latch on to others do you feel like there is this if you were to play the game let's go with this if Brian if you were to play the game and you ended up on a tribe with two or three Brown folk and you make the merge and there are two other Brown folk on another tribe would you automatically lat on to just like other people do would you imagine oh they're going to do an all do it all black person Alliance and not saying because you're prejudice or anything but like would you would that be in your mind and

1:02:58 Do you think it's fair for people to think that in the realm of a game like Survivor it's really tough I think because it happened and with the camp out and the cookout you can think it I personally want it's not how I how I am but like in this season all four of them lyanna Deshawn Shan and U Danny they went off in front of Eric and Xander they weren't like Eric and Xander weren't like they because they're black they were on Alliance they just they were like oh they're just going off and they like we They Don't Care About Us as the minority in the tribe because they had recard at the time the camp out I don't think you should automatically assume that now if you hear things from other people maybe you take it into account but I don't think you should automatically assume that and I definitely would if I was on the game hopefully one day I am I do want to comment in the sense is like I think in any org or even a live game real Survivor read the room like if four people are going off together and the edit shows this happening like in front of people or whatever if they're going off together like it doesn't matter what color they are these

1:04:18 People are going off together and talking and they seem close like read the room a little bit and the same in ORS like people talk even though they think they hide it they talk about their allies so you can tell who's connected and who's not and it goes beyond like race or sex or whatever so to just sit there and assume like oh because these people are women they're automatically going to work together oh these people are black so of course they're going to work together these people like it's ridiculous just I mean if they're talking together and they happen to be the same of whatever group then that's a little irrelevant matters in my opinion yeah yes oh absolutely Wes I think this reminds me and it might remind you like others of that scene in maresis where Sean and vpia are sitting on the beach saying all right they're out there talking but they see us hanging out here they're going to assume that we're working together whether we are or not so let's just work together at least for the time being and I know I'm paraphrasing Sean but that was the gist he going for and like going back to your or question I think

1:05:38 I would consider it and I would like make an effort to make a six person Alliance because like you want to consider every possibility and like when you're out there like I don't think it's like bad to assume that people want to grab gra itate towards people that they have a common either interest or identity with and like I do think it's really interesting that so much of that final seven Tribal Council Jeff made sure that he asked every person in attendance about it because like obviously you don't want to hear something like it would be real bad if like Cena was there and was just like we don't have that kind of stuff in Iowa Jeff and like it felt a little bit weird like how supportive like I don't want to say it was weird that they were supportive but it was weird how like non-challenging like Xander and Heather were where they're just like oh thank you and like I think in you know in the real world I think that's the most valuable thing is you

1:06:59 Just say I didn't know that thank you I'll try to be better but also in the game of Survivor it's really interesting to rewatch that tribal because they are unpacking something that's very real and very I mean I can't say relatable because I can't literally be in that scenario but understandable and but at the same time if I was say Xander I'd be like damn okay so they're facing but I'd still have that cynical side of me of like all right how do I make sure that this works in my advantage so one of the things that I loved about this season especially the like the end game was how that group of people both the camp out and the other four navigated those in-game out of game like that real intertwining of identities and affinities and strategies that made it so complex and so compelling to me which I think that made it more interesting yeah and

1:08:19 I was thinking about then someone brought this up during Cook Islands I think it might have been was either film or Kenna but the fact that Cook Islands is a very diverse cast because it's race Wars and you know the Optics wouldn't have been great if a white person had won the season only because and like if they did it wouldn't it would have been more because they had they had a very tight alliance with their starting tribe and that's what it is it's the same thing with the Women's Alliance that we brought up earlier two of the three seasons that have like fairly successful women's alliances is because they started off with on their OG tribes of being women I think what's different here is the fact that they did feel like hey let's try this out and what annoys me about final tribal and it's going back to Shen tries to make it seem like DeShawn tried to use that as a as a as a tactic instead of and I never got that Vibe and I remember watching finale live and hearing her I'm like I am I wrong in thinking that I never got that vibe from Deshawn at all like obviously we weren't out there but like I just I never got the fact that I never got the vibe that he was utilizing race

1:09:39 As a way of getting him farther in the game I didn't either yeah I felt like he was really into it and I think the only reason he targeted Shan is because she targeted him first she T like I sorry she sorry he wanted to vote out Ricard ain't one of us sorry gota go and he's a threat no I mean that totally makes sense from Deshawn's game too like of course like why would you not get rid of her card like if we have this four thing going and you've got this little number one that you two went through so much together of course he needs to go like yeah it that was the most frustrating Shan moment of the season for me because up to that point it was like okay yeah she's a fun I mean she's still has a fun villain but like she's a fun villain this set and the other and then she asked that felt personal it felt very personal and it aggravated me watching it again today it's like okay that doesn't feel right but you know like I said we weren't out there for all we know he could have been doing that I doubt maybe she F I mean maybe she felt that way like yeah maybe and yeah maybe she felt that way and so let we're going to we're going to get to a few more of these twists

1:10:59 Because we actually have I know I just [ __ ] on The Hourglass but we get another one another [ __ ] twist we get the Do or Die which thankfully we get rid of that after next season do or die above anything else in all three of you have touch on this really does take away from the social aspect of the game because it's very similar to Advan gedon where you have no say in what happens to you and nobody else has any say in what happens to you it's all Luck of the Irish you know you're just going to go in and you're gonna open a box and then Monty Hall decides your fate in that situation they give you the choice yeah and the frustrating part is well and it's not really frustrating because both people that get it end up not getting taken out thank goodness it's not fun to think about the fact if someone does get taken out in that situation what that backlash would have been because that backl I feel like this season ends up in like Nicaragua type category 41 and 42 if something like that happens but thankfully you know Des Sean's

1:12:19 Able to get through it and I think that the reason because that's also the final seven votes I think because it happened so quickly and because the episode is it feels short I think that's why they were able to show all that conversation about the racial issu because like the Johan thing happens and then we're going to spend 10 minutes talking about this once is fun Do or Die is there any way make this good or I know I think Brian brought up that there's a way that we could fix the merory is there way we can fix do or die or like should it just [ __ ] off forever Brian we'll start with you yes thank you I thought about this today and maybe since Survivor loves having people lose their votes they can have you do the do or die and this is not as much suspense because they're not going home but it's not as much Stakes you'll lose your vote if you get it wrong and everyone knows and maybe you gotta rearrange and have a live tribal or like it's just too the stakes are too risky like to have your game come down to luck I would hate that if I was a player regardless if I want or not and it's just like I don't think the fans like I can't imagine you thinking the fans production thinking the fans would like it like it's suspenseful I guess but like the game is voting like I just don't get it

1:13:40 Anyone else want to fix it is there a way to fix it okay I don't know if this fixes it but without saying don't do it an Australian Survivor sometimes they'll vote someone out and then do something like that so this person has already been voted out they whatever this is a chance to save them and come back into the game it's I'm not a personally am not a fan once you're voted out cow but get a little better because at least you know you were already voted out but I don't know I mean it's just unnecessary in my opinion yeah I'm such a Survivor purist like I want everyone to have their vote I want because like that to me that's the biggest draw of Survivor is how can you keep yourself safe whether it's through a challenge win whether it's through people just liking you enough not to write your name down whether it's through like a King George situation of gaming the system splitting the votes and making sure that people can't touch you even when they're gunning for you mhm and like advantages are cool in that regard but like any twist

1:15:00 That takes away that like agency like and not just the impacted players agency but every player's agency so like anything that requires losing a vote or like anything that's not a quote unquote fair trade I feel like undermines the spirit of Survivor which is can you through one of these main three channels defeat everyone else yeah and I want I want to touch on this it would have been it would be good if there oh no not that one this one I disagree desan was not liked by most people in my opinion so seeing him go and getting the winner sooner would have been great I feel like once the truth bomb thing happened it totally killed everything I do think that leading up to that I think that Deshawn probably gets a few votes I feel like he would have really had to fight for Shan's vote but like I don't think that it's as much of a blowout in that situation I do think that once that final six I think it is yeah where I think that at that point Deshawn is screwed no matter

1:16:21 What but I don't think he I don't think he was disliked I don't think I think that he was looked at as a snake because Shan called him a snake but there was no never really any snaky it was him and it was him and Danny doing a lot of [ __ ] together so I disagree with that what I want what I want to really touch on though is at a certain point the a lot of the episodes really turn into are we going to vote out Ricard Erica or Shan that like those the names that continue to come up are we going to vote out one of the three of these people and Ricard takes you know Ricard goes after Shan even though she tried to save him that episode I think it's still a good move we get to the final Tri where it Danny andan one of them are going to go and you know Danny says I play for the Cowboys it's a very cute moment Danny goes and then we hit the finale and a Twist that I kind of don't hate I guess is them making them start over get it get it I guess it's harmless I don't I don't have about op pinion on it's just harmless it's whatever just [ __ ] it like what just put them

1:17:41 There I guess it's fine but Erica I think the finale is when we to really get the Erica winner at we we get here and for me the finale is also and it's so ironic Wes you brought this up at the beginning of this that Russell H thought that Xander should have won because in this finale I got not Russell proper Vibes but I got Hansen vibes from Xander as far as he's getting a lot more confessionals where he's like I've got this [ __ ] wrapped up you know I like he is so confident that he has this one and he takes the person that everyone is probably going to vote for to the end very similar to Russell in her versus Villains where he's like oh yeah Sandra's not going to get anything and parv is telling him you know if you take Sandra she's probably going to win right and he's like no that's stupid it's like no no you're stupid you're stupid and I don't think and I hate comparing Zander I have no ill will towards Xander I have will towards his f we get to this finale for you and we're going to we're just going to go in order for this one Karen going into the finale

1:19:01 Did you think rard had it wrapped up or how are you thinking going so obviously we have a lot of Survivor winners where their game depends on winning immunity so you have to win at final five and four and we would have a lot of winners who would have been voted out had that not happened so that's the case with Ricard of course if he went immunity then he's going to be our winner and that's great because I love rard but he has to win immunity at five so and he doesn't so okay then what happens and then I'm like you know coming into this game I didn't expect to like Xander at all he is not my type of person I don't like young athletes young men in general sorry no but he was chubby first he had his whole moment was that he used to be chubby and then he wasn't but I just found that out yeah that was very much sarcasm I don't give a [ __ ] right but I don't know he's just he's not my type but then I don't know seeing that he's like a little more sensitive and a little more in tune with humanity and not just like a jock you know I was like wait I think I like Xander actually and I would work with him and there's a little more to him he's a more complex character

1:20:21 Than just a little young dude like I thought he'd be stupid I'm sorry I think young people are generally not that not that they're not smart they're smart but they just don't have life experience which counts for a lot but anyway I felt like I was super impressed with Xander throughout the whole season and I personally felt like he had a winning game but then I didn't hear that game at final tribal and I also didn't hear any of the other cast members being even remotely concerned about Xander at the end which is why so why was the edit geared towards making you feel like Xander had a winning game which I still say he did because they showed us one but I'm also a huge believer the final tribal speech is so important so important and he [ __ ] the best underrated so obviously Erica killed it over him and I didn't hear anything in the final Tribal Council that made me be like my God Xander should win this like as I'm watching it I'm like Xander's not winning this honestly does Sean probably had a winning game too if he was able to articulate it and also Xander wasn't able

1:21:41 To do it either but that's really what final tribal comes down to you see it all the time people you think have a winning game just crash at final tribal Wes what did you what did going into the finale who did you who do you think were the Front Runners or well or the front runner because there's only five left so yeah I mean it was definitely clear that like if Ricard could you know reclaim that challenge prowess he was probably gonna win but it just he just felt like he was gonna fall short like I mean Heather was completely invisible the whole season that's another editor problem but like after you know the penultimate episode like with the truth bombs and stuff like that you we really only went in with all right it could be Xander Erica or Ricard and like Ricard had the clearest winning game and then even as somebody who was like rooting for Erica I was like oh Xander might win this and then at FTC I was even like

1:23:01 Oh Deshawn's doing okay other than you know the Shan pile on yeah but like yeah I feel like I was like all right Ricard either gets fifth or first and then he got Fifth and I was like all right and Brian I feel like at this edit made me as confused as a goat on [Laughter] Astro they were trying to set up Xander as a final four I thought they were gonna try to set up Xander going into the finale he was the final four fallen angel I thought what it was going to be but because they eded him up so much but I thought the Shawn was gonna win going into the finale but I was not mad at an Eric win but I in the first watch you don't like I didn't expect Erica to win because the lack of confessionals that was my bad because I said quality over quantity earlier but I see that now on rewatch that she definitely deserved it but I feel like Ricard if he made it he was gonna win but he also I thought it were gonna go Fifth and fourth Ricard and Xander or vice versa yeah I mean Jeff I mean Ricard has his moment where he's like oh yeah some of the best players don't win and Jeff's like yeah that's true and yeah I think that I think the part party that I was at least everyone was like okay yeah either ricard's

1:24:22 Are winning ricard's winning or he's going to lose at five after he leaves for me I was rooting for Desa but also was saying there's no way the Shawn or Xander are gonna win this game so it was either gonna be her I guess that is their couple name Heather and Erica I thought that Desa was swimming up shits creek without a paddle because of everything happened in the last episode and I thought that is this pretty boy that like really hadn't done anything outside side of the do you have an idol it's like no but I've got this fake one like and that happened during the Sydney vat I believe so it had been a while yeah it technically wasn't even a merge it wasn't even a jur yeah it was it was just a vote so I felt like it was Eric's game to lose once Ricard went home for me and this is once again this is kind of going with the edit and I and I feel bad because all three of you in the comments have said like there is an edit there where you can make Erica at least shown more prevalently because she is shown to be a decent confessional Michelle Fitzgerald is shown to be a decent confessional especially in winners at War Natalie white not so

1:25:42 Much but like who cares like you could still give her a little bit more screen time there is this issue and I mean it's I think they kind of fixed it sort of in 46 I don't think Kenzie still got as much time she could have but like Kenzie is a social player Kenzie wins and I feel like the audience wasn't as pissed [Laughter] off I say that but with Erica it's it really starts this whole Facebook mom's meme that is very prevalent in the Survivor Community now of the Facebook moms got so upset that Xander lost that they started to GoFundMe to give him a million dollars because they felt like he was robbed out of a win because the jury was so bitter towards him and what's so funny and this is I'm reiterating stuff that I have talked about for the last 40 days 41 days in Samoa the jury seems more pissed off at Mick in let's see in where vanatu they seem more pissed off at both of them and caram moan they seem more pissed off at Sherry here they see seem more pissed off at Deshawn so Desa if you want to talk and I don't I don't believe in robbed whatever if you want

1:27:02 To talk about people being pissy towards others they're more pissy towards Deshawn than they are Xander's basically a nonat they give him his Kudos they're like oh yeah like you Xander you cool you did well most of the negativity was focused on DeShawn here yet you have these Facebook M and I know I'm generalized but you have these Facebook moms and others that think that this jury was so bitter towards Xander that they decided on Erica as a winner even though you know she WS she wins in a in a almost sweep and the only other person that gets a vote is not Tander it's we are in this new era and this new era of Survivor for me obviously we've all [ __ ] on the advantages and a lot of the twists and all that the extra element and my I apologize to fans of the show in advance and if you're listening to this you are I think that the fans of the show are slowly starting to go down the road of Star Wars fans where Star Wars fans just kind of got they got very gatekeeping and they started you know started attacking people

1:28:22 Online more than you know more than they should which is shouldn't do it period but they start they have now gotten to the point where they are doing things like gofund me because they're their chosen one is losing the game and they're attacking Maria online for not voting for Charlie and 46 the fans are starting to lose their Rock they're going off their rockers as Rob would say as Survivor fans here Survivor fans that I trust are not piece of [ __ ] why do you think that there because the phanom has been around forever and the internet has been around for most of the most of the show but I feel like here and Kong I feel like here moving forward the fans have just really been more vocal in positive and negative ways why do you all think that is Brian we'll start with you we'll work our way up on my screen it's Brian Wes and Karen I know I keep I know people can't actually see my screen but yeah that's how it goes can you repat the question why do you think that the fans have become a lot more vocal Post 40 positive and negative I think it's a lot

1:29:42 Of people are more passionate about what they watch they feel like they definitely have more of opportunity to speak their mind and what they feel like regardless of what it is what they feel and they're going to let people know it as social media starts to grow and it's been grow it's on growing feel like people are going to get more passionate and then the groups that people that agree about certain takes are going to conglomerate or get together group up and then just really stand true for what they believe in which there's a heavy set of Xander fans on like Facebook casual fans and he's not a bad character it's just like I like him he's just like he didn't deserve to win like he didn't drive anything but I feel like people get more passionate as the time goes on and Survivor is like a show that people love to talk about everyone loves to talk about and everyone has opinions regardless of what they are Wes yeah so I think the and I really like your you know title like that Banner of Facebook mom's is like you see this every single season like I'm not a big fan of like big brother or stuff like that but like you did see this that recently with

1:31:03 The season that s was on where people were supporting I blanked on the guy's name this isn't helpful analysis but oh go what was that Matt yeah and like just this idea of like oh like these people are like they have our values blah and like which is also unfair to some of the players I mean granted Cameron was like he was one of them but like it's unfair to like Xander for breaking out 41 to project that stuff of like oh he played the best because he was the most visible and he was the one I've resonated with and I think it's really hard for people to realize how edited the show is and you can't make people take a crash course in like story booking and editing reality TV where like no you're not going to hear everybody's perspective we don't have time for that but like you can fill in these gaps of even just putting in the smallest effort of re watching a pro or watching or reading

1:32:23 A postgame interview view of oh that's how people felt out there and realizing that they're not part of the jury and that's the thing that always like grinds my gears is so and so should have won it's like well they should have won were you were you at FTC did you play with them if not that I feel like you can say if I was in that situation would have voted for him based on the edit the TV show but to say they should have won objectively like is not I wouldn't say that yes and I mean that's what I have done through all of this like oh yeah who would I have voted for in this situation in this situation I would have voted for Erica but you know other situations where I yeah I would have voted for other folks but like I don't I don't sit here and say oh well this person clearly got robbed because one schmuck on the internet said this Karen okay so I got back to what I said earlier about outrage drives engagement and I know that's not specifically what we're talking about but I think it culturally over the past five to 10 years it's just getting worse and worse and worse about being fed media

1:33:43 That drives outrage so I think culturally we're getting more used to being outraged about more and more things and psychologically that kind of takes a toll on P people and I feel like they just they need to release and I think that's why we're getting a lot of toxic culture and I personally don't feel good about the direction of society being outraged and divided about everything but the algorithm feeds off of that and the best I can do personally is to not engage but I mean like anybody who is I don't know over 25 or 30 knows that like 10 I'll say 15 20 years ago it sure there was some outrage but it's not like today like people are outraged about everything all the time today like and I'm G to be talking about one of those seasons in two days because the Left End of the spectrum got very pissed off with 43 but we're going to talk about that then finally as we start to wrap up I'm surprised that this one has actually gone this long but I'm glad that it has because I feel like this been a great talk Brian

1:35:03 Final thoughts on Survivor 41 I think this season Upon A rewatch goes really well if you try to ignore it's hard to ignore but like just think about the game players and the characters whether they're a good game player or not or a good character most if not all the players in this cast bring something table I even like the people that I may say were duds but or Abraham and Sarah because they didn't get enough time to shine at least I don't remember a moment everyone else I remember a moment for at least and that says something because I can't say that like you said earlier about a lot of different casts from the 30s but I genuinely like this season I think it's probably like number three or two of the new era in my opinion and I think it's more people should give it a chance and give it a rewatch and binging I think the week that we waited for The Hourglass really sour a lot of people's taste and oh my God I agree Wes I'm gonna get to this question but Wes yeah I'm also reading the DVD cover one and I love that question that's a great one but yeah I mostly agree with Brian I would put this one four out of the six of the new era I'd put it below I would rate it like 45 42 46 41

1:36:24 But I think that this one was more than anything necessary I think is a good word to describe the season of great word yeah like we needed that catharsis of coming back and for me it was like a catharsis of returning to eight-year-old west of and like that was one of the fun things of like the corniness of those early episodes of Jeff breaking the fourth wall I was like all right I mean like this feels weird even then in the moment but like I know that he was doing he was doing it for the people 20 years younger than me and like that made it more okay because I'm like it's a great game we want to see it continue and it was also necessary because even though the sheer number like the volume of twists dragged down the actual pace of this game it also taught the producers what not to do and that's why we got such good products specifically in 45 and 46 I have some opinions about 43 44 that I'll just let go right now

1:37:44 But like I think more than anything 41 was necessary and I love it for its intrinsic value to the evolution of Survivor necessary is a great word and I feel and I said this yesterday about winners at War where like we needed winners of war after island of the idols and I feel like people kind of overrate winners at War even though it's a good season I feel like they overrated just because of what came before it and because of the Nostalgia for me 41 is the exact same way where it's like okay I needed 41 after the year that we had all just had but it's also 41 most recent season I can call a Nostalgia season for me and it only happened three years ago but I can watch it and I watch it just like I would watch Survivor Australia where it's like yep I know where I was when I watched the premiere I know what I felt like watching that Premiere you know I know how much that season impacted my actual life necessary it's such a great word and I appreciate you bringing that up Karen go ahead I feel like it's a really underrated season I think people talk down on a lot because maybe it made them uncomfortable socially politically

1:39:04 Maybe I mean the twists were not the best let's we all admit that no one no one's saying it was a great twist season but I think overall it's a it's a strong season in the casting and the strategy and the overall interactions between people oh also the other the third thing that really brings it down is the winner is under edited so they the editing makes you like root for someone who's not going to win but then it's a little confusing but upon a rewatch I'm just like because I remember when I watched it live I loved it I mean sure you know The Hourglass sucks whatever but and the winner was confusing at the time but upon the rewatch I'm like this is a good season you know so and honestly the new era all runs together for me but I remember 41 because it was it was like new and it was important as you said it was it meant something when it came back on for me I'm going to give it a 3.75 out of five so on the list through 41 Seasons Survivor 41 will now be 24 out of 41 Seasons it'll fall right below edge of Extinction and it'll fall

1:40:25 Right above game changers Fair which those the true Seasons that I was more high on this time around than I have been in the past final question oh first off who's on the DVD cover of the U I would say Shan Ricard Erica yeah Shan Ricard Erica probably nir Tiffany Xander Des over Tiff okay so Deshawn Xander I like Evie too but that's just me okay yeah Evie the definite three are Shan Ricard and Erica and then down here we can have a mix of most of the jury I feel like Danny probably wouldn't be on there I feel and I know Danny's not like the chall thing and like that did well on that but like I feel that bottom three could be split up between a few of the merge people I would be perfectly fine if Brad was on the bottom three of the cover like V yeah Brad brought so much to those first three episodes I honestly Brad for season 50

1:41:46 One seg way our final question Brian if you have to pick one or two people from the season to play on season 50 who would it be that's tough to only pick two I'm a huge J JD fan I was sitting at that his Tribal Council like on my couch what are you doing bro they're gonna vote you out that's the quote what he said gas sliding at its best I'm kidding J else JD and probably Erica or Shan I prefer Shan but only because the edit of Erica was so weak W so I mean Shan's a lock but personally I would say for merge Ricard if we're doing like a merge versus Prem merge which is my dream scenario I would want Brad interacting with people like Bryce and Brian cordin and cowboy and Natalie Cole in that pre- merg tribe like that's my dream okay and Karen okay so I want to preface by saying that I think Ricard is one of the best players we've ever seen

1:43:07 However I don't feel the need to see Ricard get voted out second because he's such a big threat because he's so good so I don't need to see Ricard again if that's what's going to happen so I'm not going to say him even though he's so I'm gonna say JD and Brad because JD was my winner pick and I feel like if we were not a three tribe situation that maybe we could have seen the you know JD from the into the Phoenix but maybe this is gonna be season 50 JD who comes out and like kills it and Brad is just good TV and he's not dumb like that's the best qualification he's not dumb he's not good TV and not dumb for me I was having a hard time figuring that out today I am gonna end up just saying I know that's like a very easy answer and it's a very much a copout answer and you know Karen you brought up a good point about how Ricard might get targeted first I think that if you go to 50 because just going based off of how I've been answering this question through 41 days devans would be there in that situation there' be a lot of people that could

1:44:27 Potentially be the first boot because they're such a threat in that Dominic hard because yeah Dom would be someone that would be looked at as a bigger threat in that's in that spot so like I feel like if we if I had to pick I would pick Shannon Ricard if I were to pick anyone else maybe no I was gonna say Sydney but like no oh I did say Sydney I was making a list I kind of want to see a little more Sydney I don't know if I like she's entertaining but her life is fine her life is great outside of Survivor as per her I mean she's been to 57 countries I don't know but thank you all so much for doing this like I said I didn't I did not expect the 41 one to be the second longest pod that we've but somehow thank you all thanks to everyone in the chat for you know similar to winners at War I understand that people have issues with a lot of stuff and I'm glad that everyone is able to keep it civil and I'm glad that I can keep my own feelings in check I've got 42 tomorrow

1:45:47 I'm really excited for that because I was so emotional when the winner won other than that I said 3.75 I think that's everything that we have to talk about So yeah thank you to y'all thank you to everyone in the chat thanks to everyone that's listening afterwards and we will see you all on the other side yeah thank you