Survivor 42: Episode 8 Recap ft RealityRealnesss

0:00 Welcome back to the nullified take where we've got the tnt takes for you on survivor 42 and i think it's episode eight some people are calling it episode eight some people are calling it episode nine but on this podcast it's episode eight in any case i am joined by two of my friends one of them should have should need no introduction i think on the nullified tag channel she's been on the channel quite a few times and from reality realness with three s's chantelle is back on the podcast here today to talk to me about survivor 42 for the very first time this season chantel how are you i'm doing great you know this season on a whole has just it's been great i guess compared to 41 which i didn't particularly enjoyed i think that 42 has been really fun it could be because like with these twists i know that they're coming so it's not gonna piss me off so much when they come and like ruin someone's game like i know that they're gonna be happening so now i'm see i want to just look purely on what how people react to things so with that and the cast just seems to be adapting a lot better to these twists i'm enjoying the season a lot so i'm really happy to be here talking with you getting out all my survivor thoughts frustrations jeff jeffersons get them all out there and they're talking about you well i can't wait to talk to you about it like a lot of people may think that chantelle and i talk about

1:20 Survivor off-air quite a lot but most of the time when we talk about things it's about the challenge so i'm really interested to know what chantal's thoughts are on this season but now let's go over to a person here that is making their second appearance on the nullified take channel and it is my friend richard all the way from south africa for those who don't know richard will be one of the trio of us here on the nullified tech that will be talking about survivor south africa this season as well so this is a great opportunity for people to get to know you richard how are you doing i'm doing amazing wouldn't i'm feeling awesome i mean it's like 2 a.m but people wouldn't tell because of my energy so i'm doing awesome as always yeah richard keeps sending me messages at 4 00 a.m in south africa sometimes so he's a bit of a night owl similar to i believe omar saying in the beginning of the season he's going to be an owl in the dark and he's going to wait for his opportunity to pounce and we saw a lot of action here from omar this episode but we'll get into that a little bit later on let's get into the start i guess of this episode we had a big vote romeo copped some votes coming his way but ultimately he threw a hanky vote at high and there seems to be this continuous rivalry here chantal that is forming between hai and romeo out there on the island and it's so strange

2:40 To see because at the merge we saw them kind of bonding over their experience and now it seems like these two just can't see eye to eye what has been your take on i guess this whole dynamic between romeo and hyde out there on the island well okay i understand that people have you know conflicts of interest and they don't necessarily get along and yes they may have had that moment where they're kind of bonding over like experiences it you know with being gay and american and you know how people like hai was out and romeo was a little bit more you know not sharing that with everybody and so like that was a really nice moment that we saw a couple episodes ago and i actually don't know what happened i don't know when it completely switched but i felt that romeo he kind of played it in my opinion the wrong way i know that it doesn't feel great to feel as though you are the number one target and he we've noticed that he's increasingly getting more and more paranoid so i don't i totally understand for him to be a little bit squirrely and you know his name was on the chopping block but it's not the time to go and like put a pinky vote on high and get high all right up i get it he wanted to see him you know get all of out of sorts and stuff like that and maybe and blow up and maybe the target would go on him yes but he seems to have more power than you right now in this game so it's just gonna blow back on you so i just

4:00 Thought that it was really short-sighted of him to retaliate and throw a vote onto hai and not expect it to come back at him at some point i don't know why he was continuing to create this enemy with high when he could have easily been like okay let's buy gun speed bygones let's shift let's change let's like pivot and maybe work together moving forward so he just created or like really reinforced this enemy that he has with hai so i'm not sure how it started but he didn't really help it out at all no i agree with you 100 christian says hey guys welcome to the live stream here christian and christian is also saying skinny dude alliance again between them but sadly it's the skinny dude alliance that never actually formed between both high and romeo out there richard both you and i have spoken off air we both rate high as a player we rated him earlier in the season but i'm starting to feel like hai is getting pretty close to the sun here now he's got a target on his back where romeo is seeing him as the instigator the person that is running that alliance and i do feel like romeo feels to a certain degree that maybe hai replaced him in the hierarchy here with the likes of drea and so forth and maybe there's a little bit of jealousy out there as well in high fitting in with this group a little bit better than what he is and it looks like he's really struggling to find himself out there and to fit in

5:21 With these group of people that is at the merge yeah it's pretty interesting because obviously it all started with romeo and juliet being some sort of like a duo and then there's sort of like drifted out of there to form their lines with hi it's almost like a situation where you know your girlfriend dumps you and then starts dating your friends like you know you're leaving me out you know something like that but i mean with romeo i mean part of the reason why he said that he threw his name out there was so that people could see that hang on this guy is not this you know put up and well organized person he can be chaotic he can be entitled and we are seeing it in the edit i'm not sure if it's hinting that maybe i could be in trouble but yeah he's pretty much he pretty much is sort of like flying close to the sun but you know i don't know it sort of does come across as a bit you know off-putting because he's like oh romeo you wrote my name done but he did the exact same thing it's almost like the mic and emotional situation where they both wrote each other's names down but one feels entitled that you know because you wrote my name down we're done you know did he actually though didn't i thought that the only people that wrote down romeo's name was omar chanel and there wasn't one other

6:41 Person but i thought i didn't think it was high i don't think that he actually i should have checked before coming onto the podcast i'm not too sure who voted that way marianne could have been yeah i'd have to look at it but actually marianne i remember mike marianne and omar are voting the same way actually so i do think it was marianne because omar kept his covers one of the comments i made in the previous recap that he kept his cover with marianne and he voted outside of the majority which i thought is very smart like i think omar is playing all angles and he is running circles around these people out there on the island at the moment i'm very impressed by omar's game one of the things as well just before we move on from high that i thought wasn't great game management by him at this stage is that he kind of blew up at a few people and you know said hey tori did you vote for me i know i know it's you romeo type of thing and i think that being that sort of aggressive towards people that potentially could have voted at you in front of other people don't put you in the best light in front of them and a lot of people may say hi is getting frazzled in the game here and we want someone who's going to be cool carmen collector that we want to work with later on in the game so i don't think it's the best way of managing it now obviously i'm saying this from the comfort of my mic here at home i understand when you're out there you're going to play this very different yeah we're very cozy here and we can make these comments very easily dolores

8:01 Welcome to the live stream as well dolores is a frequent listener of the channel dolores says i don't understand why target someone that appeared like he was genuinely bonding with i feel we just didn't see something but he is paranoid for a reason and yeah romeo is feeling out of place and i think that some of those insecurities and probably things that we as an audience don't understand things that he may have gone through in his own life and i'm speculating here prior to going on to the show where maybe he's felt like he's been ostracized from a group or he's not and i think survivor brings out insecurities in you and then that plays out when you're out there on the island as well another interesting thing that happens here early on chantelle is that we see rocks finally trying to play the game a little bit here you know he's trying to get the boys together he wants to get a boys alliance we've just seen a big boys alliance and australian survivor thankfully this one's not going to last though but he tried his best right he went around and talked to everybody but hai and omar he couldn't have read them any more incorrectly than what he did in this episode the thing is that i totally appreciate people trying to gain numbers and getting a group together to protect themselves i think it's what you do need to do but you also need to read the people that you're doing that with you need to

9:21 See if that's something that they would go for like not everybody's gonna go for the big alpha male alliance that's not what everybody's kind of looking or identifies with and so i think the fact that he lost sight of the fact that you kind of have to appeal to everybody when you're making an alliance and that it's not just it's not just going to be advantaging you right like rockstar is going to have like a really great advantage if he has all the guys working together like he's gonna be safe for a while right that's great for him but is it great as omar kind of put out there he's like that's not really great for me because if there's no more other people left like i don't necessarily have a chance of winning immunities and then i'll be plucked off next so i totally understand both sides of like wanting to be protected and then another side being like this doesn't really do anything for me so why would i be so excited about doing this so i think that it was a good idea but it wasn't executed well because he didn't read the people that he wanted to work with well richard what did you think of you know i guess roxroy's approach here and trying to get this thing together i know you would have jumped all over it being an alpha male yourself you would have been like yes let's jump in let's go let's get the thing let's get this thing wrapped up to the india but how would you have reacted if rocks came up to you with this plan of getting the guys together i

10:42 Mean personally i mean in my experience in playing online realities lots of survival games anyone but me like if people are gonna want to target certain group as long as that me i'm down with it but i think this rockstar thing actually i mean actually goes back to what tori said i think tori is like a psychologist like a therapist and said that rockstar is a bit of a narcissist he sort of looks at himself and how things benefit him and he doesn't really do much investing in terms of seeing how it could benefit other people and i think it's a typical mistake that people do is that you think that you can control people and if you sort of like give them the certainty that hey you're an alliance and you're protected so that alone is incentive why people would want to work together like a male all males and lines or something like that and we also did see a clip of this sort of like off of off of rockstar being sort of like missing social cues because one of the things he says he's like because they were at the well and then he's like too high hi what do you think who do you want to go home tonight and then hi it's like i want roma to go home and then rockstar simply jumps and it's like hey i think we shouldn't go for that we should go for all males alliance and then you know high sort of like says hey you asked me the question so let me finish explaining before you start interjecting so he does so we sort of do see these

12:02 Small things where you know he misses social cues and you know i think it contributes to what could have led to his demise yeah i think it's you guys still i'm just gonna say that like he might have even had success if he didn't say all male alliance right like he just did like he just didn't need that to be the selling feature he's like i just want to get a group of us together people that i trust the people that are like-minded that we can all look out for each other like how do what do you think about these people do you think that we could all work together like i'm really good with mike i think i can pull him in what about you high do you think that maybe you and omar do you think we could all work together i mean and be building it making it seem as though it's like people that want to be working together instead of like a really unsavory sounding on all males alliance when you're just like i don't identify with that no thank you so he could have made it happen even with the same people he just didn't have the right approach in my opinion yeah and also i think it was quite telling that when he came to omar and spoke to him about it omar told us the audience that this is the first time rocks roy has talked any game to him trying to get a male alliance together and i think survivor players for the future if you ever listen to this podcast you need to build credibility with people trust and credibility is important for you to make any kind of move you can't just go to someone last minute unless they feel like they're at the bottom and omar does not feel like he's at the bottom he does not feel like he doesn't have agency

13:22 In the game so there was really no incentive here for him to work with rocks going forward and hai just had this massive blow up at romeo at that point so read the room read your audience like i was never gonna go that way also just wanted to say hello to zoe here the hangout room in the live stream zoe will also be at some point on the podcast and will be the other part of the trio that will be covering survivor south africa as well so looking forward to that christian says the male alliance here did crash and burn and that they did indeed it did not go their way at all i'm kind of picturing rock star as like a telemarketer like cold calling people and just like think that he has a really good really good bargain for you and people are just like please don't call me i'm not warmed up to this phone call now as someone here on this podcast that have actually done cold calling before i will say i would hire someone like roxroy to do cold calling because you need that i guess obliviousness to people gonna say no to you and you shouldn't have your feelings hit by and i feel like rocks is that kind of person that would pick up the phone a hundred times to get two people to say yes you know and you only need two people to say yes to make a quota so i actually you know i know it wasn't meant as a compliment and an actual endorsement of rockstar's skills i do actually think he wouldn't do too bad at cold calling

14:42 You know but we'll talk more about rocks as the episode continues because there is definitely more to dive into i think when we get to the end of this episode let's move on to the immunity challenge here this is a very i guess old school immunity challenge we've seen it many a times on the show you have to climb onto this platform and balance and they're going to divide them into two different teams here with two people winning immunity two tribes going to tribal council now richard you're a purist of the show you've watched it for a long time but i do know you're someone that also enjoys some of the things that they are trying to change and mix up to keep the show fresh what did you think as a fan of the show seeing them split the tribe up here into two different factions and the immunity idle being there for two different people at this game so to try and mix things up at this stage in the game did you like this configuration i mean it's not the best thing but in terms of just being a viewer i mean seeing this there's some joy you can get from seeing people scramble and being in a tough position to sort of fight to you know make a plan from the small numbers they have i mean like i said i've played some online loyalty games i'm not sure if chantelle has played some sequester or something like that but you know it happens a lot when you're thrown in these positions where you're like hang on i didn't expect this to happen and you're forced to sort of like come up from the ground and

16:02 Make something of it i think it's a it's an okay twist and we actually did see some interesting and funny specific gamepl of people i guess well this is the thing is that i don't mind the idea of having like two tribals and like kind of shake things up two people go home to immunities i don't really mind that i just wish that there were more stakes like i know that they wanted just to be a completely random group of people but i think it would be really interesting if they had to do a schoolyard pick or something like that and then people would see oh shoot i'm on the bottom here now i really need to win this immunity and then but and then they're like oh shoot all of our friends together or whatever if they're not playing strategically then they might have to vote between their friends and so i just wish that it would there was a few less rock draws and luck elements of the game and i would like to see people having a little few more opportunities to strategize with like okay if i'm going to have this person on my team i definitely would want to have this person because i think that with this configuration of people that i'd be able to get out my particular target so i just would like to have more room for people to be able to

17:22 Strategize and then it's not as likely to get twist screwed you know like you kind of will know your position you'll know that you'll have to work really hard to win that immunity and then you'll see how the chips fall so i'll get you i'll give it i give it a 6 out of 10. no five and a half five and a half i think i was high coming into the podcast on it because i was like oh wow they mixed up the dynamics a little bit they didn't allow for a power alliance like probably the mail alliance was even stopped because of this whole thing and it could have gone in a completely different direction but that is me thinking about it you know results focus because we were lucky that we did lose two people in this episode who weren't the biggest players of the season now if we lost like say a dream or we lost like someone like a high in this episode or someone that actually was playing a game or an omar we would have all been devastated and we would have said oh well they got swap screwed at this stage in the game and there's an element of luck involved and i know i'm jumping ahead slightly here but i also spoke to jeff about this at the tribal council that he was at he said in a season such as this where it's twist heavy there's way more luck than skill involved you know and he said that to jeff's face you have to play different and i'm like jeff how can you eat this up how can you be happy about the fact that your show has become a circus and it's all about luck now it's not skill anymore

18:42 Like to get to the end and i'm saying this with a pinch of salt because i mean obviously there is also still some great players in this game that are navigating those twists but i actually agree in hindsight with you chantal now that i think about it i just think we were very lucky that it shaped up the way that it did here in this episode and we lost the people that we that we lost yeah totally agree because you know i would have been i would just been so annoyed it's just like oh the numbers didn't fall in your favor so you're out of the game and that happens all the time like swap screwed is a thing you know they got swap screwed like who's gonna get swap screwed this episode like somebody always gets screwed and so that's why i wish a little bit that we could have a you know some agencies so that they could like pick who's on their tribe at least so they can use some sort of strategy if they choose to and then you know it gives people a better a fighting chance at their position in the game and isn't it interesting that you know rocks roy mike and all these people are like we want an all-male's alliance and then somehow the survivor gods just manipulate the events all men and you know they have to sort of like have an idea of what would happen if the middle lines were to happen and they were not they were in the final five positions so and poetically enough the person that came up with it got chopped

20:04 [Music] yeah i think that this is going to have massive ramifications for the rest of the game as well the this vote that went down but we will get into that a little in a little bit let's talk about the actual result here on the immunity challenge i thought it was quite entertaining to watch this time because the sea the ocean there was extremely choppy similar to that challenge where they nearly drowned i think at the team portion of the game early on it seemed really difficult to balance on this and ultimately jonathan and lindsay that was impressive to see them go here to head here i think lindsay has been holding back for a large portion of this game and we haven't seen her go full beast mode out there yet but she seems to be very capable at winning challenges as well but ultimately jonathan and hai they're gonna win the immunity here hai is very happy to win it jonathan obviously jeff is very happy very quickly that he's won this one here as well and i do think that we're gonna see i'm putting it out there jonathan's got a taste for victory now i can see him when more immunity is going forward in the game here like you know the survivor is about to meet him kevin i think that's coming for him i don't know if he doesn't win the next community i think that he's done for i do well we'll probably get into it a little bit more but just the way that

21:24 He interacted when he had a little bit of power wasn't i don't think savory for some of the people that were in his previous tribe and i think that if they have the opportunity they'll be like do you know what i think i need him gone at this point so yeah i don't think he's gonna be lasting very much longer do you think that and again this is me sort of playing devil's advocate here and i can see him very easily falling but do you think that omar calms jonathan down even further and gets back in there and does what he's been doing the whole season which is to keep taku strong like he's been preaching it throughout the whole season he said let's not split and divide here we need taku numbers i can very easily see taku being the dominant tribe here because they're the only one that have not lost a single person yet marianne does get annoyed with jonathan in this episode and we are moving into this next portion of the episode so we might as well talk about it she does get annoyed and she says that you know jonathan is treating me like a kid he's leading me around he's not really asking me for my opinion but i also know that marianne's got a great relationship with lindsay and with omar and omar was not in this tribe configuration is he the secret source they could come back and calm the rest of those taku members down shintel or do you really think that it's just done for him now like he's got no chance at meeting those bridges i think the secret sauce is jonathan not having any power and having

22:44 To rely on other people to keep them safe i really i really do and i'm not even trying to say that in like a mean way at all funny way like you know so far he's not had any in protection and so he's had to really rely on the relationships that he built with taku the fact that he did provide for them and he helped them win a lot of challenges before the merge and so now he's been vulnerable for two to vote out some to tribals and so he got power now and we see now what he does when he doesn't when he feels safe when he can make decisions when he can call his call the shot and he immediately decides to take that role on and goes and tells people what we're doing tonight we're blindsiding drea that's what we're doing and marianne you're gonna be the backup boat because we're gonna we're gonna flush your idol out like why does she get to be the backup phone and i was totally with lindsay being like well why would you make her be the backup vote why wouldn't you make it be tory because like we don't want marianne to go if draya decides to play her idol he's like andrea's not gonna play her idol it's like of course she's gonna feel like playing your idol because if you're gonna be going for somebody and the backup vote is somebody that has an idol and you're going to try to flush out an idol here like if i were drea i'd be like well if we're going for marianne i must be the backup and if she plays it then i'm going to be going home so i'm probably going to be playing my idol like i think that she

24:05 Was probably gonna be playing her idol even though some people are saying like no she had no idea no clue i just don't think that she would have she was that clueless that she wouldn't be feeling a little bit nervous about you know playing her idol so he was just going around and telling people what to do not listening to reason or rationale i think that this is indicative of what he is like with power and i don't think that's going to rub omar the right way if that situation kind of happens again and we see in the next episode omar and lindsay talking a bit i can't remember exactly what they're saying but i feel like they're coming to the conclusion that maybe it's time to take out jonathan make their tribe look a little bit less strong like allow him to you know get out of the game and the three of them can stick together the three taku so that's what i think should go moving forward and i wouldn't be surprised if that's what happens richard what do you think of all of this jonathan-ness in this episode and how he you know had the power going a little bit to his head do you agree with shadow do you think he's running out of runway here yeah i do think that because i mean i'm not sure if you guys remember but earlier on in the season when they were at the challenge and then jonathan it's it said something like our tribe is strong i forgot what the orange or the tribe is really

25:25 Strong and then marian and omar after the challenge were like what's up with that guy why is he telling other people that was sort of like a tight a type four type five so i think a similar thing could happen here where they like you know he's proving that he's sort of like the mindless you know muscle man and maybe it is the time to go but strategically thinking i don't think going for jonathan would be a good situation because there's four original taco then there's two of the others if they vote out what's his name jonathan the two twos could work together to take us to three maybe they should stick together for just one more vote then the game can open up a bit i think just to let you know i know you mentioned the next on and they had hai saying or they had a few different people talking and lindsay's saying that we should go for this person and that person but they didn't actually say who the person is that they're targeting next episode i think personally it's hot i think highschool especially now because i really liked him at the beginning i saw some similarities between me and him but these small things where he's just annoyed that romeo is causing chaos trying to fight for his life or you know is angry at people for not you for writing his name down those small

26:45 Things are sort of like making him lose points on my sort of like so he's playing emotionally at the moment i feel like i feel like he's letting his emotions drive him and survivor it's not always a good thing to play an emotional game nothing to hire as a person i think he's a great guy and you know he's probably a top bloke you know but we're talking about the gameplay here i think he definitely played it wrong here at this stage in the game so the reason why i think it would be jonathan over high like i think that they're making us believe that it could be high and like i couldn't see a scenario where it could be absolutely but i think it might be jonathan for the for what happened with lindsay and then that whole tribal council and how everything went down i'm sure that she's relaying that whole scenario with him and that's kind of why i'm kind of leaning more towards it being jonathan that they're deciding around because i don't know if omar and lindsay both right now think that hai is the target right like i could just i could see lindsay explaining about jonathan but i don't necessarily see omar explaining about hi so that's what the kind of the reason why i'm leaning that way but i can see hai be the target yeah so dolores here says no not high here's my winner quick pre-season and you know what dolores he's my winner pick preseason as well he's my number one guy pick and win a pick for the season so i don't want him to lose but i've got a very bad record with picking

28:05 Winners and then they end up not making it all the way so you know i wouldn't be surprised if this is the case here if i'm ever on a show please don't pick me they're gone so i don't know for those survivor players that are coming back for survivor return of the outcast on survivors of africa i hope for your sake i don't pick you as my number one to win that season that's gonna be good for you i didn't want to go back to the jonathan thing because there's kind of a few interesting funny points here so him and lindsey talking and he's so confident about his plan and he's like you know i've got i've got the immunity win now so a lot of people take it easy here but this is when you need to go full throttle because you're safe and it's like the exact wrong advice like if you've won immunity and if you're a big guy like him you take a massive seat back and you let other people dig the hole or dictate unless you feel like the vote is going to go in a way where it's going to get one of your allies out of the game you shouldn't be burning social capital at a stage in the game where you can actually sit back and relax it's like one of the few times you can sit back and relax in the game it was funny to me when he was so confident about his plan and he had that conversation with lindsay and she just dismantled it in one sentence saying hey if marianne goes home draft plays the idol we lose the idol and we lose the extra vote and you could just see the gears turning in his head and he didn't

29:25 Have an immediate response but then he went into defense mode because he didn't want to be seen as the guy that was wrong and strategically not making the right decision which is funny doubles down and you're just like why are you doubling down on this like clearly this is the incorrect read sir like you like clearly it's not it's illogical for you to continue to want to put a backup vote on someone that you do not want to go out you never throw a backup vote on someone that you don't actually want to go out to some degree and another thing though i just wanted to throw in there too is that they had this whole alliance of seven now like that you know the reason why what's your name al what's the girl with the l's name lydia she went out because like it looked like she was turning on that eight and so that's why they ended up getting her out right and so they have seven left they got out chanel and then now they're gonna go and turn on their own already jonathan like i think that's also really disingenuous too and i think it makes him look bad that he immediately wants to go against that and i think that you know is also not really great when tory wasn't part of that seven and part of people that were fighting to keep you and deciding to keep you because you're part of their alliance because maybe they would have turned on you and took in you out instead of instead of lydia in that tribal council when you and marianne were also

30:45 Both vulnerable so the only the only reason i can think of in my head for why that vote changed and again obviously there's a lot that we don't see on the tv show we only get a very small snippet of what happened out there but i think everybody is aware that drea has got advantages like they knew she's got an idol and in his mind he needed to make that decision like who's the biggest threat to me at this point is the person with two immunity wins that could win an immunity from me or could she be a shield for me because at least i can say well tori's won more than me you know and draz got an idol so i can kind of see where that conclusion came from it's still the wrong way to go about it the way you try to make it work but i can kind of see where he's thinking that way in a broken way and i also think him losing i will only reiterate this again him losing omar in this tribe i think really exposed him as a game player and i think that omar is the person who's keeping him calm and in check because i do think they've got a very tight alliance where they've said this from the start that omar is his brain shield is the person who actually is going to go out there and make these strategic decisions he did not have that person there now he definitely should have given more credit to lindsay and listen to her because lindsay to me seems like a very capable and rational player out there and i did feel for her because you could clearly see that she wants to work with her but she's like man i'm stuck with this guy that's just not listening to me and i'm so frustrated at

32:05 This guy right now and i think there's a lot of women out there that have felt that way about men that time so you know it's just playing out on our screen in front of us you tell a big reaction from you well it was just so classic that like she was being she was being calm rational just laying out some alternatives some facts and he immediately is like basically like you're wrong and this is why you're wrong and you're freaking out all over nothing and she's just like okay i'll just pretend like i'm not freaking out like well i'm not freaking out i'll just sit back and let you do what you want to do just like it just it's just frustrating that sometimes women have to take a back seat when there's a really bold personality that really needs to have their agenda be heard and that they're making the decisions and they are right and it was very a very classic moment that we see all the time with the woman in the situation just kind of biting their tongue and allowing the alpha man to act that way so but it is interesting to see like lindsay in this role because she is an alpha woman and like you've got very other strong women this season as well so it's kicking and choosing your battles yeah it's picking and choosing your battle knowing when and she does i mean some people could say criticize her and say she should have just told him how it is but she's still playing a game

33:25 For a million dollars and she's got to navigate this guy you know and she's she i thought did it really well this episode i don't know if i would do so well because i would probably be like hey my face doesn't hide any sort of emotions or things that i feel so i just probably like be looking at him like he's an idiot i tend to make that face often like this you're really dumb and i kind of make people feel dumb sometimes i think i'd do that i've gotten that face a lot richard whenever it comes to the challenge drafts that we've been doing you know i get that face all the time [Laughter] now we're gonna go over to the other camp here and that's the original taku camp where the men are all together they've got to make a decision this was the most straightforward one i felt like in this episode in regards to what was going to happen the plan here should be let's stick strong together here for rox and mike and omar potentially to work against romeo here who is in the outs and should be an easy vote but omar is definitely seeing things differently here he's the one that goes to high and says hey we need to mix things up here we actually do need to go and vote rocks out so that we can prevent this male alliance from happening because it's not going to benefit our game here and i found the conversation here very interesting between hai and mike because mike is saying

34:45 That we will lose all credibility within our alliance if we turn on someone who's supposed to be a part of their tight alliance that we've currently got which i thought was fair but it does look like omaron hi together outvoted or overruled mike in this situation and this is the reason chantal i think that mike is going to go out and he's going to lose trust at high here now it's going to be very interesting because i feel like he warned him he said don't do this someone's going to have to be someone's going to be to blame for this you know like roxroy had a really big there was a really big reaction when he was voted out in this episode where is the blame gonna go i think omar is a great figure skater and he's gonna skate all the way around these bullets flying and it's not gonna come his way it's going to come high's way here it's going to be not so good for him i feel like see i don't know if he's going to actually get any too many repercussions for this decision because the only person that would really be fighting for him at this point would be romeo which clearly it wasn't because romeo took him out or drea and drea i think is a savvy enough player to decide like okay this happened like roxroy was my number one or whatnot he's voted out i'm gonna have to pivot and move i don't i just don't see her coming for revenge

36:06 For roxroy i don't know if their relationship was strong enough for her to feel like she's been they were taking a stab at her for taking a stab at roxroy i think she knows his personality i think he she knows that people weren't necessarily getting along with her with him and i think that she after a little bit of explanation she's going to understand why that why it happened so i don't actually think that he's going to take a big hit for it i think mike though like why didn't he just vote the way he wanted to vote and just pretend and just pretend like he didn't flip that's what i thought that was going to happen yeah well i think he was probably the case for him is probably not wanting to be seen as the one person that's immovable or that he can't change and you know shift with his alliance and at the end of the day i think that voting in a different way could always put someone else at risk and you know you don't know who's got what advantages out there so it's a dangerous one and a tribe configuration the small to do that the reason that i'm sort of really interested in how drea is going to react and we'll obviously talk a lot about this when we get into the second tribal council is that it may be that she understands why he got voted out and that there's personality issues but i also think drea is not only thinking about this game she's also thinking about perception and how her community is going to perceive her outside of the game is it going to be expected of her to take revenge here for

37:26 Rockstar being voted out and has her game shifted slightly because she came to the sudden realization that hey we've just had two players of color here one after the other being voted out should there be repercussions should i go and look for who was the person who turned against them and i'm wondering if she's gonna look at it that way or if she's gonna have the presence of mine not to do that and to focus on the million dollars at the end here because i don't know if it's the right thing for her to do to make a big target of herself at this stage in the game yeah i mean we would we did see like drea initially in the game one of her iconic quotes was that i don't know these people so of course she's gonna do what's in her best interest and in one of the trouble council she was like she's imagining her mother saying that drea that's not your family so it's really interesting that after what happened in this recent episode when she said that she's to be resetting a game going back to the drawing board and all of that what does that actually mean does that mean she's going to play the vengeful game are we going to see her play the advantages are we going to see her voting out certain people so that her amulet gets stronger it's all these questions you know it's like a it's like a million dollar question but you know there's an amazing character so we'll see what she does yeah georgette here says that i think hires on the chopping block christian says mike is going to vote off high

38:47 Also says omar is coming for high and then dolores says i can see my targeting high as revenge for rock so it does seem there are a few people out there that thinks it's going to happen and i think that we as an audience understand why people don't but i think mike and jonathan kind of had a real connection with roxroy and they connected on being man's men and people who go out there and provide and yeah maybe not everybody understands that but still there is a reason that they felt a certain connection to want to do this man's alliance out there i do think there's going to be repercussions and i one thing i am very sure of is that none of it's going to go into omar and he's the one who instigated in the first place which to me is brilliant gamepl they go into tribal council and you can immediately see andrea's face i've watched this tribal council twice i wanted to make sure i got every little bit of detail from this as much as i can i knew it was going to be a big topic talking point this episode and you know i could think of nobody better to talk to than both chantelle yourself and richard you've got experiences i don't have right and i can't talk to that i can

40:07 I can relate somewhat a little bit to what jonathan felt out there in regards to being really afraid things are going to blow back on him because i would probably feel insecure in that moment myself as well if i put myself in his shoes just afraid of how that could look like it's an edited show you don't know what's going to make screen time but is a lot that we need to talk through here and you could see drea's you know her whole demeanor changes when she goes and she looks shocked and you know you've got jeff they're asking her up front you know drea does this change things for you seeing both rocks and chanel there and she immediately says yes it does i just don't know how to process this yes and you can see in real time her processing this thing she didn't go in there with an agenda she didn't have a certain thing she wanted to say that should be clear but she just does mention here that optically it does not look good seeing and if i offend anybody by saying this i don't know what the right term is because normally in my day-to-day life i don't talk ethnicity i know chantal is chantal and richard is richard i know some people even see that as me not recognizing the culture of where chantal and richard comes from but i do have a lot of respect for both of them but you know she's black she's a she's an african american and i believe marianne is a canadian american or however they would like to identify if i am misrepresenting that i do apologize but they see two people of color here that have voted back to back out and there is a history on the show of seeing minorities or black players in

41:27 The game get voted out quite early on and for draya there's changes in her mind because i've seen a lot of comments out there people saying drea voted for chanel why is she saying this there's a lot of that coming up but at the end of the day i think what chanel what drea realized here is that these are two players now in a row i'm potentially the third one on the block this does not look good and how am i going to be perceived outside of this game there's a lot of weight that is on her shoulders that i would never understand because if i go and play survivor personally i would never have to go out there and play survivor for my people you could say like for white people like nobody's looking at me and saying chris you need to represent for us out there but draya feels that pressure that she needs to go and represent out there chanel a lot happened here with drea and you know what was your thoughts on that pressure that she felt out there can you identify with being in a game such as survivor and having that pressure on you and how people may perceive you outside of the game for seeing the game unfold in a way that you potentially didn't think it was going to unfold at this point and having two players that you can identify with so early out of the game so i totally like understand where drea was coming from and that whole tribal i was crying when i was watching it because it was such a visceral moment that i could completely put myself in their position in their shoes and understand exactly what they were feeling

42:48 And it's when you look and you see two people that look like you that have lived through similar life experiences you have that were taken out of the game and you the plan is for you to be taking out another person that looks like you out of the game right so even if she doesn't think it's her she thinks it's supposed to be marianne that's supposed to be who the vote is and she would be the third person sitting on there and maybe it even would have been her who knows and it's just realizing that like not that anybody voted these people out specifically because of their background and their skin color i don't think it was any of that at all but it was just seeing two faces and knowing that her vote would be going towards a third person of co third black person losing their opportunity to play this game she didn't want to be a part of that and i also felt that jeff was really kept on asking her over and over and over again what was going on and i think he was the person that brought up race first if i'm not mistaken i could be wrong you've seen it again i only saw it the first time yeah he didn't ask he did ask he asked her point blank he asked her because she was she was talking around and she said listen maybe there's some subconscious sub subconscious thing going on here which is it's fair but obviously in that when somebody says subconscious you know i could see where jonathan had a bit of a response to that as well but i will talk about that when we get to that

44:08 Part but he definitely asked her point blank do you think that there was some race you know racism involved or this was based on race and that's when she was kind of put into a corner because i felt like she didn't want to go there i honestly feel like she didn't want to go there but jeff took her there in the conversation she didn't want to go there and it's for the reason by all the comments that are coming out about this episode i don't know why i did it but i went into facebook survivor 42 like i went into that group just to see what people were saying and i've actually i'm really disappointed in a lot of people in a lot of people's perspective i'm not watching this show ever again everybody always makes it about race and it's like it's very convenient to not make it about race when your race isn't the one that's always being targeted or you know being lynched or being killed like if it's not it has nothing to do with you so it doesn't it shouldn't affect you and it's just kind of like they feel as though black people being on the show is ruining the show that they love because they're always having to talk about race it's like but you know what i always have my skin color i can't hide from it i can't hide from it and they can't hide from it and when they see something that shows them that like oh my goodness there's a couple people here that have gone out of the game and i'm gonna vote on another person that looks like them and like me that's not a good sign i need to we need to be sticking together she shouldn't have voted out chanel i don't think that was the right decision for her

45:28 To make if she to have to keep solidarity but i don't think that she was thinking that way i think she thought that she was solid in that seven and that group was going to be able to protect her when really she should have been thinking optically like oh we definitely need to work together even though i know that there's a lot of people that think it's racist for all the black people decide to protect each other but these are the reasons why because if you don't protect each other then you end up being really easy people to be voted out even if you're like really you know a great player even if you have all these idols yes i understand that they have really good reason to be voted out i understand that but it's also if there's a person for instance like jonathan right if there was a black male attractive black male that had the same build and physique as jonathan and he was doing all that he was doing for their tribe before the merge there's no way that he would have been able to get through the first vote from the merge and so there's just certain things that black players have to go through that white players just don't necessarily understand see or experience and i think that's what was coming over drea is like she wasn't ever thinking about race until she saw two people right there right in front of her that was like oh wait i need to maybe reconsider what i'm doing here because that doesn't look great for my game yeah no

46:48 It's extremely well put and richard you and i we had some conversations off air about this prior to even jumping on the podcast and i know that when we spoke about it and i don't want to talk for you're going to have to flaw in a second here you mentioned that you know being a south african being a blacks of african there's certain things you can't relate with because obviously in south africa you're in the majority you're not in the minority like in america but there is still certain things like being a black man and how you have to conduct yourself i'm sure you think about some of these things as well what did you think of this specific moment here on the show and you know i guess culturally how is it different for us that are international like even for me i try my best to understand and i try and listen as much as i can and i think that's a key thing here is to listen before you speak and to give each other the platform to talk but there's a lot i don't even understand still richard what was your thoughts in regards to this and what we saw unfold here on the tv yeah this is a good thing because it highlights the sort of like differences not only between all the different races but even in a particular array in a particular race there's so many different experiences that for me where i live it's mostly black people or mixed-race people so ever so really have i ever had like interactions with black people up until i went to university when you know i had to interact with all these different people

48:08 And my experience is different from someone else who was in primary school high school with other races and all of that and racism means much more to them than it would for me because if i was in a similar situation as drea i wouldn't even notice that it's two people that have voted out i'd look at them as just pure players that are voted out because of strategy or just a lack of game play in any in any sort i think this is this really highlighted and i think for drea her actually voting chanel is actually a good thing because it shows that she wasn't thinking of race she was playing the game what it is but when she got to trouble counseling then saw what happened it put in a position where she was shocked and she had to process it and we clearly saw that so i mean i've also been in some of these chat groups where people just say i'm done i'm not gonna watch survivor you know it's back-to-back seasons where people talk about politics but it's like look at it season 41 and 42 were back to back and it's not like people in season 42 so what happened in 41 and the same issue is still popping up so it really shows this is a genuine thing and things that people should actually be thinking of but you know everyone has their own opinion and that's it and also big brother as well though right and at the same year big brother had the cookout that came together and it's just really interesting i think because

49:28 Like we've increased the diversity absolutely with us i think it's amazing on all these shows that we love because i really have i've never really identified with many people on these shows that i've loved and in my day-to-day life so it's completely opposite to yours rich shirt is that i've always grown up being the only black person in every situation that i've ever really been in right so all the schools i went in all my best friends like all the most people in my surroundings were always going to be white people other than my family and that and even there you know my dad married a white woman so i have mixed race on that side as well so i definitely can understand being the only black person in a situation but if i was with another black person in one of these games i'd be like we gotta stick together because you know that we're always gonna be voted out first right like and it's just something that i've always experienced i've always had to mitigate being voted out first in any of these games or being thought of as somebody that's so strategic or she's so charming like i have to like downplay everything and i have to really tippy-toe around how i'm perceived by everybody else because they'll use anything as a reason a good reason to vote me out so i think that's also where those subconscious biases come in that like you yes it's a great reason yeah she has all these trinkets she's really likable blah i get that

50:48 But if there was somebody that was white that had all those exact same credentials would they be as targeted as draya and being in that alliance with them and whatnot and so this is where i think a lot of like the conversation needs to be looked at where these subconscious biases lie because they're just so subtle and they're showing up now as we're increasing diversity on our shows and sorry i like what that you actually made about even in online games not just what happens in survivor in the i mean i've played almost like more than five survivor online reality games and the pattern does really occur where a season starts and then you see a person of color get voted out person of color gets word out personal color gets pulled out and then the people actually comment like hang on what's happening here why is this patent happen last season it's happening this season is happening the next one and it's really something that you really think of that you know i mean when you think of it there's other stuff that obviously justifies why someone's voted out maybe they're too chaotic maybe they're too brash but noticing the pattern that you know a person of color being voted out back to back to back is something that has happened in many seasons if you have the chance to stop it you need to take it with both hands because it almost makes you morally justified to do it and it's something bigger than the game and you know thankfully

52:09 I mean we saw even with marianne having to play her idol because of the ramifications yeah ramifications of what could happen you know of in terms of what the fans would think that oh this was a you know gameplay thing you know nothing's off limits which isn't the case but you know well she read the fans correctly because a lot of the fans have responded in that manner one of the things i wanted to bring up as well is that you know a definite you know thing that i look at i know people look at it when you say privilege you know and they're like how can you mention privilege but i do feel like you know i do have a privilege if i was to go play survivor where i could choose the personalities i want to play with you know where you're almost locked in as black players and survivor now to play with like you've mentioned to tell other black players because you identify as being from the same race but that's maybe the only thing you identify with like that person could be full of shepherd do you really want philip sheppard until the end no well i don't know you know what i mean so and i couldn't be the person that takes them out right because like people would be coming for me oh my gosh it's the external pressure which i picked up from and i think a lot of people didn't understand that and when and i would have if i was i can't say now sitting at home it's easy for me to sit here and say oh okay i've watched tribal

53:29 Council twice i understand her intentions i've had the hindsight of seeing people's social media responses to it but if i was sitting at their tribal council as a white guy you know and i know this is not going to take a very big part of the podcast if i heard subconscious buyers coming up i pro i can't say i wouldn't have been acting defensive myself because i would be afraid of how i was going to be perceived outside of the game and it's an edited show and am i going to look racist now when i had no intentions to be racist so i understand why well because of his reaction in my opinion like from his reaction i was like it definitely i didn't feel that they were being targeted i didn't think that they were calling him out because he was the one that was calling the shot here like so they weren't ever really naming him as the person that was doing something subconsciously racist but he immediately took offense to it i think the immediately taking offense to it is because i think that subconsciously for him he's realizing that oh maybe subconsciously i was only targeting the two black women this episode even though marianne is good for my game she's good for my game but i'm willing to lose her here because and i and i'm willing to save and protect tory what

54:49 Are the reasons here why is he so willing to lose marianne who would never vote him out has two advantages that could be used and beneficial to you but she could be the backup vote because i'm willing to lose her but i'm not willing to lose tori who just won two immunity challenges that's not really great friends with anybody nobody's going to be mad at for getting out of here and it's come from me when you know it's before we merge and kind of like blew up my game calling me goliath or whatever she was saying about him and has voted for him before so yeah i think that he was feeling defensive because he was realizing that subconsciously he might have some biases that he was recognizing in that moment so i can't i can't relate like i can empathize with what dre and marianne has gone through but i can never i am not mary ann andrea but i am a white guy and i can if i if i was jonathan in that situation and i heard that i would have panicked because again how are you going to be perceived outside of the game that would have been very much on his mind i can't say and it would have been just wow this conversation is going in a direction i didn't think now i do think if we look at it there's a few reasons why he could have gone that way like i said tori could have been a shield for him the marianne vote to me does not make sense it's a dumb play and i don't get that one dre having too many advantages kind of makes sense to me one of the things that i did see the second time i watched this and i'm not saying i'm right or wrong i don't know what's going on in his heart i honestly don't i can only watch

56:09 The tv show right but the one of the things one of the things that i did notice in the tribal council was dr turning back to him after she's gone through her thing and everything has come down but she said listen i'm not talking about you i love you she said that at tribal council so i think we need to listen to like i don't know if she just said it for the cameras it didn't look that way jay doesn't come across someone that plays up for the cameras or she this doesn't come to me like that person so she said that to him now i don't know what's happened outside of the show and i don't know when interviews come out we might get a completely different picture on it but just based on the limited information that i've had there i think that everybody was coming at it from a different angle here and they were being misunderstood and that's maybe the optimist in me that are thinking that's how it went i don't know i mean i can see that being a perspective and could be true but i also know in my lifetime i've definitely done things to make the powerful white man feel more secure in their position and i wouldn't be surprised if drea was trying to calm him down not make him feel defensive not make him go on the tack attack and you know she was like leaning on him at one point to make him feel comfortable with her again she doesn't want him to think that she's against him she doesn't want him to be targeting him and so i think that or

57:29 Her sorry so i think that a part of that is that the social dynamic between especially black women and alpha male white men i think that she was also playing a role to be accepted by him and so that they can continue with their dynamic and that it doesn't become a race war so i do think that she was selectively choosing to act in a way that was because remember she he said to her like you're being aggressive and you saw the faces of chanel when he's saying you're being aggressive and she wanted to completely flip that narrative that he was trying to paint of her and be like i'm being very you know agreeable i'm being very understanding you know what i mean so i think that she was being very careful with how she was managing him because she didn't want this aggressive label to be the new storyline of her journey on survivor so that's one thing and there was one other thing i want to say about jonathan oh when he was like when jeff said like if you guys want to play your idols or something like that like it's up to you guys and then jonathan was like yeah you guys better go play them like kind of urging them to go and play their idols and i was like see he's anyways he just there's a few people there was a few people though chantelle and

58:49 Again and again i'm not like i'm purely looking at this from a game standpoint some people are going to be like chris here out defending jonathan the whole time i'm just looking at it from a game point right if i was out there's a million dollars at stake i'm making sure people are playing idols like i'm sorry like even though i understand the conversation were bigger than survivor i understand it's still a million dollars there are people richard online that are saying jonathan should have just gone home you should have just laid on the sword for them yeah but i don't so like i do understand why both of them had to play their idols because they know that the backlash it's gonna be that using racist strategy is pretty repulsive so i understand why they had to lose or use their idols but like how sad is it that they had to play their idols in order for them to not get backlash from the american public or the marianne in my opinion more marianne like i think drea always she said she read the votes were coming her way it's what she said at tribal council if that's true or not i don't know but i felt like drow always had to play our idol but a lot of people will criticize the ones that aren't looking at the bigger picture here will criticize marianne for playing an idol when she i don't think she was going home in any circumstance but she was the backup vote still probably right unless lindsay did some fancy footwork and they did do tory without jonathan knowing which i wouldn't be

1:00:09 Surprised if that was the case as well because when we're going into tribal that's what i thought was happening like lindsay was like okay we're voting marianne but like actually half of them vote tori out and so maybe that's why marianne was so sure but she did know that she was the backup plan with when jonathan approached her and told her about drea so that's funny yeah so i can see people criticizing her but yeah once again to come to your main topic to feel like you need to play due to the optics outside the game and that's what i think the thing that a lot of people are missing here is there was a lot of people who were worried about things outside of the game and i think that you know you've got marianne worried about how she was going to be perceived you've got drea worried about how they were going to be perceived or she was going to be perceived and then i think jonathan also i mean if you hear these things going out there not that they were calling him directly you automatically think worst case scenario you know about the stories of people getting cancelled and you know people blacklisting you and all those things like i mean this could change your career for the worse you know and in the long term so i do feel really you know i empathize with a lot of people here this episode but i'm really happy we got an opportunity to talk about this it's a tough topic one that i didn't really realize i was gonna get into this season because it came from nowhere like this whole season has not been politically driven and it's still a season that i enjoy and i'm really sad that people

1:01:30 Are looking at this and saying this one episode this one interaction now makes us not want to watch the show because i feel like as we become a more diverse show on survivor there are going to be more of these conversations happening it will it will disappear as things have been said and as things move past that i'm sure there will be a time when people can move on from it and it won't be the main point of discussion because the survivor as a show will also feel like a lot of it has been publicly addressed but yeah it's teething point like if you thought bringing more diverse people from different backgrounds into the show into it and this wasn't going to happen as a discussion you were fooling yourself it was always going to come with the territory but i do want to go back to someone who was actually on the show tori i thought she had a very interesting post on instagram here where she said that you know she's got where was it so when empathy is hard so i'm going to read from this part here because there's quite a long post she says now let's talk about tribal council some of us some of us have never experienced anything that mary ann andrea was talking about you've never thought about your race you've never had to think about your race you've never watched survivor and thought why do you keep voting out white people back to back so it is possible that the reason you struggle to have empathy is because you aren't able to relate because you've never thought something similar because you don't understand because you don't share their experience i saw the evidence of their pain did i understand their emotions no did i share

1:02:50 Their emotions no did i see their emotions yes i've had nothing but peace and respect ever since that tribal council happened one year ago i understand that i might never understand that is why i cite with empathy i acknowledge that i'll never understand and that they've gone through not understanding does not give me the right to invalidate their experience not understanding does not mean i'm right and they are wrong my survivor dream was over because of what happened at the tribal council yet i still had empathy let that sink in if i can have empathy in that moment i hope that you can have a step back understand that you might never understand and still lead with empathy and i thought brilliant words from her now i know tori has also gotten some flak on social for other things which i didn't read i don't actually follow social all that often but i saw that and i thought if there's anybody that should feel aggrieved by what went down it's probably tori because she ended up being the vote at the end but she got herself in that position she can understand it she's got empathy to a degree and yeah it's it was a it was an interesting tribal council but i thought everybody did the best that they can with what they've had i'm very interesting now to see how does the game move forward here does this remain a big talking point now chantal for drea and marianne moving forward in the game like what conversations do you think is going to happen in camp next episode i mean i think

1:04:10 That they're going to go through the entire tribal council marianne it's a bit of a chatterbox i don't think dream might be offering up too much information but i do think that marianne we will give a play-by-play on what happened at that tribal council i feel like she will be leading that conversation letting everybody know what went down probably explaining that they don't have their idols anymore so they can look a little bit less vulnerable probably saying like we love everybody that we you know we don't we don't think that anybody is racist we don't they're probably going to do a lot of you know making people feel okay and i think i think that they'll be able to move on the people that are that are the biggest forces in the game so far are people that have experienced some sort of pulse most likely experience some sort of you know segregation or some sort of you know something to do with their race or their background or their sexual orientation they've probably received some prejudices in their life so they're going to understand like omar is going to understand a little bit of what drea and marianne went through hai is going to understand to a certain extent romeo is going to understand to a certain extent and who else is left that wasn't on that tribe there's one more person who else who's the fourth person mike and michael is i don't know somebody says he's half puerto rican and someone says he's half black i'm not sure i'm not sure

1:05:30 He's part of rick and i've seen i think but i mean i don't want to assume half irish or something half irish half puerto rican so i mean he might have experienced some or within his family seeing some different prejudices happen so i do feel that people are going to understand what happened in the tribal council and i think that it's actually going to be probably another conversation that they have and then i think it's probably going to dissipate and be okay so i think i think the season is going to be fine i think that people are going to learn from it i think that they're going to be really happy and proud that they were part of a season where they're able to overcome something like this so i think it's going to be positive for the players moving forward in this season and yeah i hope so because i feel like i've loved this season from beginning to end so far it's been a great season the characters have been amazing i'm drea's number one fan it hasn't changed because of this episode and her going through an experience i'm not supposed to i don't look like someone that should be her fan but i'm a mess a fan of hers you know she's playing a great game she's got a lot of advantages i like chatel knows me she's been on podcasts with a long time i like the characters i like the explosive players which she's all of that you know so it's not changing for me moving forward speaking the truth here says it's literally

1:06:50 Going to take generations to erase the stigma around race-related conversations and we're only season two of the bipark initiative so survivor fans are in for a long ride so there may be a lot more conversations in the future christian says here mike is like a grandfather of the tribe he's 100 years old right so it's like not that old it makes me feel really old when people say that i'm like he's in like my dating range though is that like i know that it right in this particular episode we were talking specifically about race black and white but if i was say a white lesbian and there was two other lesbians that were sitting on white like female nobody loves students or female so two other lesbians that were sitting over there that just got voted out back to back and there was one other lesbian that was on the tribe with me and i was going to be voting them out of this game i would probably have a second thought there too it's like any time there's an other and you're noticing a pattern and you're part of the a group a minority of some sort that looks like okay you're kind of am i being targeted like you would get nervous of your longevity in the game the more that the numbers of people that look like you or identify in the same way that you do start to dwindle so i know it's black and white in this episode but it would happen in any sort of pattern that you're seeing if you

1:08:10 Identified with the people that were being voted out in that pattern it's interesting you mentioned that because at work like i'll use this as an example obviously living in new zealand being a south african immigrant who've moved here automatically when i work with other south africans i'm like oh you're a south african hey we've got something in common we know what briar is like a barbecue we know certain things that's cultural for us right and at work when there's certain conversations happening you know this guy you know he doesn't fit quite in because he's a little bit because south africans are very straightforward we come to the point we you know if you're what survivors of africa you know it's always explosive because people they say it how it is i've kind of toned that down because to fit in culturally with new zealanders they're a lot more relaxed they're not as in your face and telling you up front so when i hear conversations happening or this person's not fitting in or they're just being too direct i can't help sometimes but take it a little bit personal because i'm so african and they're talking to me about another south african so i think that situation i can understand it that it's also you know globally there's certain stigmas about certain countries and things like that so in that sense i can to a certain degree i guess relate to it a little bit and you know yeah i think it's interesting when you go down this rabbit hole there is so many different layers that you could talk about you could actually do a whole three-hour podcast just about this yeah absolutely yeah i'm coming back to what shintel said as one of

1:09:30 The viewers in these groups where people comment about the whole you know race thing someone actually made an example this jonathan that part of the reason why the all males alliance was started was because of instead of looking at race as a thing you can look at strength if you if jonathan saw two people that were challenge beasts and he's voting on another challenge piece it doesn't make sense because if that challenge beast goes that means he's next so in these two contexts people are doing the same thing but because this one involves race people you know look at it in a different way because obviously race is something that no one has control of you know it's an outside game thing but being a challenge beast you know it's an in-game thing so you know it goes back to instinct right for us as humankind like of when we started and there was like different tribes and there was a saber-toothed tiger running into camp you need to knew you needed to know there was someone next to you that would pick up the spear and help you fight you know so you're gonna obviously be close to the people that you know if it's visually or personality wise or whatever that is that you relate to you know there's this tribalism thing that for us as human beings are always going to be there and so when these topics come up people it's almost they choose teams you know like i know i'm team this so i'm team that but yeah it's hard for people to come to the middle and just have a conversation like we're having right now like i mean i hope i've given both of you a great platform to talk here and i've

1:10:50 Really appreciated the fact that you allowed for me even to you know because i feel like sometimes you know it's tough as a white guy these days you can't always express your thoughts as well and it's great to talk about what jonathan may have gone through and you guys didn't just immediately shoot me down and say oh well don't even don't even consider thinking about what might have gone through in his head like we don't want to know about it you know and i think that's what it is it's like a let's allow to like if it's a five minute or two minute conversation around what potentially could have gone through in that person's head what went through andrea said let's look at all the different possibilities and try to understand each other better as a society i think that's what's missing for me personally when i look at a lot of things these days online or i look at news depending on which channel you're turning into or where you're getting your social media from you're gonna get very one-sided information and people just thinking and acting the same way without having real conversations which i feel like is lacking these days i don't know if you guys feel the same about that or not but i felt comfortable and i knew i would feel comfortable with both of you to be able to also dive into the other side of this which i think is important you know for us to understand each other well that's one thing that you know i said it on my channel when i was talking about this episode is that i love about reality tv so reality dp was like a big stigma at one point be like oh my god did you watch reality tv and it was kind of like my dirty little secret but it actually is

1:12:10 An opportunity to watch all these social dynamics play out on things that i find interesting i like social strategy games i find it interesting when real life situations come out through these game shows that i like to watch yes sometimes these conversations are really uncomfortable yes we're going to be noticing some people having opinions that are very different from your own and you're learning more about people but i think for myself my fascination is with human behavior with human dynamics with the social economical structure of like people's lives and where they've come from and when you see them on your screen playing a game for a lot of money so the stakes are high it's really amazing to see what comes out that we could talk about and learn and grow and experience like i could write a paper on this like really like i could write a thesis on what has just happened on our tv show on a survivor or tv show that people really like you know turn their nose up against so i love reality television for the fact that it offers a platform for voices new voices to be heard for us to have these conversations that were never available to the just the general public to be having and i think it's i think it's really positive for the growth and understanding that we can have for each other and other cultures so i'm a thumbs up for reality tv for giving us the platform and the opportunity to just to discuss

1:13:30 These things yeah and i mean you get to make great friends if it wasn't for reality tv chantal and both richard i probably would never have gotten to know both of you yeah like and it brought us russell muscle tv hello welcome to the live stream speaking the truth says also 100 eucharist for having people who can actually speak to the experience on your podcast i was disappointed with one of my favorite pods had two white guys having discussions with zero nouns and you know a lot of credits should go to jake as well he's the other part of this podcast he stepped out and he said listen i'm going to take a step back this week not that i'm not comfortable to come on here and talk about it but i just feel like if you've got two great guests who can come on here and talk about it from a different experience have them on rather and both myself and jake looked at and we thought listen we love to talk about the strategy we love to talk about all this kind of stuff but it is great to have i think diversity and thought and speaking the truth if you like this type of thing richard and both zoe from the hangout room who's also in the live stream there will be a permanent fixture for survivors of africa on doing some of the podcast there and i think south africa is an interesting culture and it's got a very interesting background and history to it as well that these things will come up at some point when we're having conversations about survival in south africa i'm sure it's just going to be natural right richard yeah absolutely i mean these

1:14:50 Some race line topics have sort of happened in the previous seasons and it's going to be something awesome to talk about i mean i'll just mention this thing that in the most recent season of survival essay with not sure if you know toriso yeah when the trouble randomly split you know she was in a tribe where most of them were white people or afrikaans and she felt like she didn't relate with some of them and that's why throughout the remainder of the first episode we just saw her being secluded because of how difficult it is to actually get into that space and feel comfortable to be yourself and you know she fought ostracized but that's just like a dilemma of how that context can happen in south african survivor as well it happens everywhere new zealand survivor possibly i don't know australian survival all the others it happens everywhere yeah listen and teresa if she's ever listening i know she's a listener of this podcast she might listen to this episode who knows if she's ever listening she's not a young boy who's the future of south african rugby man that guy is playing i see photos every week on his socials and things like that she's a proud mother i got to meet her son when i interviewed her as well such a great personality and she is rumored to be back on this next season for survivor south africa return of the outcast so hopefully we get a little bit of redemption

1:16:10 For her as well but i know exactly the moment you're talking about and it was discussed at that time by me and i think riley at that time that optically it just didn't something looked not right and yeah but and it was discussed but you know we've spoken about this episode of survivor here in the us i think that we had some great discussions i still love this season i hope the people that are listening to this in any case no they're in it for the long haul they're willing to go through all of these different things and have open discussions they're open-minded about what's going on out there i hope people stick with the show i think survivor 42 should not be written off because of one episode one thing i still think drea her intentions would appear she did not come into that tribal council to have a certain agenda that some people think she may have had and jeff forced it out of her exactly i was just gonna say i think he needs to like i mean and again the counter argument to that is that jeff wants to open the discussion you know if jeff didn't do it with the discussion have happened you know so it's because it's because it's part of a game like it makes it really difficult for any of the players to navigate the game effectively and so even if she was having that experience she could have kept her mouth quiet played her idol and this episode would have gone fine marianne or tori would have still gone

1:17:31 Home and it wouldn't have brought up this discussion so i am appreciative of that she could have done this in the exit press right she if jeff wants to have these discussions i feel like we need jeff back from back in the day when he did the reunion shows and then like and now the problem is obviously the reunion happens straight after the season so there's no time to go and reflect on it which is not great like i liked it the first season because i thought it was a little bit different but in hindsight you don't get to reflect on it but i feel like jeff he's a talk show host he's always wanted to be a talk show host by nature so he's turning survivor into a talk show where you know you're right there's only a certain element of how much you can tell people in the game it is a game you if it's going to put you on a disadvantage then allow them to play the game until the end nothing's going to prevent drow from talking about her experience at the end of the season when a million dollars is not at stake and i think that maybe if jeff could tweak himself a little bit like i've gotten to the point where i used to bag jeff quite a bit for a lot of the things that he's done recently now i kind of feel sorry for the guy and i'm like he's trying his best he's trying different things but i just think he's a little bit obvious i think that you have a really good point though i think that if they chose to do it maybe in her confessional being like what was going on with you there like i know that you didn't want to say much because we're at tribal council but like what was happening with you i think that would have been i think that would have been more palatable for all like the viewers because it looks now that they brought race into the

1:18:51 Game for strategy and really i could you could see that it wasn't her intention because she didn't want to say how she felt she did no i don't know what to say i don't know how i'm feeling i don't know i don't know i don't know like she was very defensive nothing about it and he pulled it out of her and then obviously in that moment then you know marianne it had a save a similar reaction that she might not have said anything about but she would have probably just done something but he opened up that conversation i just don't know if tribal is the right place for it for people's games right discussion's amazing but for people's games you don't necessarily want to bring up these things if we think just back to 39 when all those discussions around what was the man's name that we shouldn't then dan and a lot of people didn't want to say how they were feeling around him because they're still playing a game and so it's a really like the balance of sharing your truth and playing a game it's just really it's unfair that he brought that out so now they have to navigate them trying to lower their threat factor but then like if they win the game now people are gonna say they won the game because like people were scared to target them because of race and so he now has like opened up the floor for race to be tainting the season when she could still have had all the same feelings

1:20:11 And we could have gotten the same conversations after the game was done and let the game play out as it was supposed to so yeah that's just kind of my two cents for four yeah so speaking of the truth here agrees he says the same as us yeah jeff wants to talk show he should look at the challenges format and do an after show which the challenges format could work really well maybe be a little bit more dramatic than some of those three unions that seem to be pretty cookie cutter when it comes to cbs also here i almost completely forgot so christian thanks for reminding me he says hey chris just use your final five in the finale episode just curious we haven't done our rankings this week and we do rankings every single week here on the podcast but when you're having big conversations like this it almost feels so arbitrary or so you know mundane to go back into the rankings because we've spoken about some really good topics here but maybe we'll leave it on this let me just do a quick share of where the rankings are sitting currently for you that have not been on the show previously so we've got currently a number one omar throughout all of the weeks we've got drea and number two hai is still holding on barely to number three jonathan had early momentum week one week two week three and week four but he is starting to fall back here on the pecking order so it gives you guys a little bit of a visibility of where the rankings are sitting so chantel we'll start with you if you're ready can you talk us through who you would rank as

1:21:31 Your number three you're number two and you're number one here for this week all right i think that i think that who has put themselves kind of in a good position and showed me that they are they know how to play the game i think that lindsay did a really good job i think that the fact that she was able to suss out that what jonathan was suggesting wasn't the right plan we can we'll never know what she was actually going to do i was under the impression before that tribal that she was going to be flipping the vote not telling jonathan about it taking out tory and he'd have to just deal with it after that's what i was thinking when we're going into that tribal what was going to happen so if that's the case i think that's really strong for her i think the fact that she's invested on keeping the taku4 together i think that's really good for her as well it's hard for me to think about drea and marianne because i don't 100 know how this episode is going to affect their game dreams always is going to have a ton of advantages and trinkets and whatnot and she's going to be playing a little bit more like cautious now so i do i'm going to put drea i think in my number two spot because you know even though she might get some blow back from this and she might people might

1:22:51 Target it i'm not sure how it's gonna play out but i do think that she has enough stuff that she's gonna be able to make it through to potentially the top five you know she has she can steal mike's idol if she wants to with the beware advantage she has the part the three-way amulet so she has that eventually maybe two people will be voted out it could be another idol and then she also has an extra vote so she has a lot of things that can help her get to the final five so i'm gonna put her in the number two position and regardless of whether or not you know she was tipped off by the fact that it was rockstar that went out she correctly played her idol and so i put her in the second position there and in the number one position i'm still gonna give that to omar you know he's been able to get his agenda across every single week it seems and nobody is looking at him as being a threat at all and i think that is a really shows how great of a game player that he is he chooses to vote on the wrong side just to make sure that the outsiders feel as though he is with them still so he's still getting information on all sides and so the fact that he has all the information and he's able to make plays that people are willing to go along with i think that's really powerful with this whole flip you know it seems like high's gonna get all the blow back and he's gonna be screws in so

1:24:11 And he was definitely for not for the all-male alliance and definitely was teaming up with hai to like not allow that to go down and he's not gonna it seems like he's not gonna get any blowback from it so that's my order number one omar number two drea number three lindsay yeah all great pics and just before i get into richard's specs here charlotte says jeff now seems to be an excitable child with zero filter agree with you charlotte welcome to the live stream all the way from the uk then also here christian is saying i think omar's edit seems to be perfect and obvious without any flaws or mistakes he may be getting the rick devons in it and then goes out on fire and that would be a shock and we know there's always a fallen angel each episode i hope not i'm actually enjoying omar's game so far richard who do you have is your number three two and one it's actually similar but for me i think that drea will take the number three spot because obviously i mean she still has like what the immunity the knowledge is power their extra vote sorry amulet and all of that so obviously she's in a good position and i mean like shintel was saying that obviously with her having this experience that changes her game so it wouldn't be surprising if something would if the change

1:25:31 Is so bad that she actually ends up seeing herself in hot water but i think she still is in a relatively good position especially given that she can steal mike's idol or something like that then on number two i'd say mike because even though in this situation he didn't want rox roy to go i do feel like i'm sort of like bringing up a new concept in survival sort of like a dirt shield like someone that sort of like takes the high sort of like a mike's dirt shield such that if something you know like a betrayal happens mark can say that hey i don't want to do that but my number one ally i wanted to do that so the fault is on him so he seems to be having no blood on his hands he has good social game no one really wants him out so i think he has it good going from this season at number two then i mean obviously number one is omar i just don't you know i mean i've had experience playing this with this game online and i just don't understand how he's so good at you know manipulating high to sort of like when hai has this fixation of well how is one person to say i want romeo out and he changes the rocks roy it's interesting how you know omar can just you know manipulate him to sort of like make a decision that omar actually wants even lindsay going home wasn't something

1:26:52 I wanted to happen but omar was able to make him think that way so he's clearly playing the game the game the right way and plus i mean omar has good relationship with the people at the bottom as well like what isn't he doing wrong like legit he's playing awesome but you know i hope he does omar have a little bit of the dan miss the dan gizzling missed out there on survivor because he just seems to be missing people i think that people just don't find him threatening right i think the fact that he's not an alpha male but he's still a straight male i think that is just he's just not threatening to people and they don't think that he's playing as hard and he's coming across as trustworthy and i think that's the i just think that they're just not threatened by him at all and they just take what he says is like he's just a nice guy that is being truthful and honest and even how he goes about switching the votes he doesn't really throw people under the bus he's not really deceptive in a way that is kind of slimy you know like he's quite how he does it like it's not really a miss i guess he's just like very kind with his approach on how he shifts things and changes that's great change his plans who knew you just needed to be kind and listen to people you might do well in the game richard sorry i know we interrupted you

1:28:12 There was there anything else you wanted to say on omar oh no going back to omar like it's really interesting because we saw that in the previous episode romeo was a bit chaotic and he wanted to you know he thought he was in trouble which he sort of was cause his name was in the picture in this episode we actually see oh my sort of like calming romeo that your name is actually on the block but please calm down i can handle it sorry romeo chill he was so like yeah and he's seeming it seemingly worked because it seems like you know romeo wasn't causing any chaos and another point is after roxray joined the jury one thing he said was ha that means hai and romeo got together to get him out and no mention of omar so i think he's off you know he's not going to get in trouble for this end good on him i hope he wins i really do hope he wins i think i think omar like i mean we'll talk about my top three now as well but i don't agree with sonia about amar having the sean edit like maybe as a big player or a very big strategy strategist or strategical player out there i guess but sean had very big social flaws she didn't listen to other people wanted her way there was some strategical social flaws where she was like not yeah

1:29:32 She was she was getting angry at ricard for having a fruit for goodness sake like i mean i just don't see omar getting that way so i feel that these differences maybe in big player edit it could be something similar but i would actually argue it's maybe more high at this stage i really don't think this game is making it i don't think i honestly think he's out next it's how i see the game unfolding and it's a shame because he is my pre-season winner pick omar is someone i completely the pettiness here from richard omar is someone that i completely underestimated in the beginning of the season when they did the preseason things i didn't write him high jake had him he didn't read him high and he was a super fan i just i thought that you know because when he was talking he didn't like and i know it's good to be flexible i felt like him being like this exotic animal lover that does all these different things he was very flaky in his answers he wasn't giving us anything so it's like i was like he doesn't know how he wants to play the game he's got no plan like i was just not that into him in regards to but i mean like that's his preseason and normally preseason is so different from what actually happens when you go out there and play the game but jake to his credit had omar very high on his list from the start and really rated him so jake was clearly more onto it than what i was but my top three actually is an exact replica of chatel's like we've done this for too long but i do think lindsay definitely

1:30:52 Deserves to get that third spot she you know was the calming factor within that alliance when omar wasn't there to try and keep jonathan on track i felt like you know we're not seeing enough of lindsay which is a shame on the show and i don't want to shade the show about it too much because i feel like they have done a really good job this season to show more people and confessionals and it's not as bad as like australian survivor was this last season or some other shows in the past so i think they're doing a good job but that means do you think she's getting the error she could she could she could get the erika in it very easily could get like i mean i'm hoping it's not because to be honest with you i wasn't a fan of the erica edith i wasn't either but yeah give me my offer i would like she's winning see if she's winning like i would like to see more of her story if that's if that's the case it's kind of yeah exactly because then you get the fans coming at erica afterwards it's like you didn't play a big game and blah but it's like we didn't really see much of her game and it's so it's so unfair to like her to get the blame for the edit because she's that's out of her control what people show on the actual show at the end of the day but yeah i've got her in third i've got drow in second dra played the idol correctly she was going to go home if she didn't she read the situation i still think drea has it in her to you know make things happen she's a

1:32:12 She's shown us more than once now that she's gonna play aggressive when she needs to and i like that in a player and then lastly omar for all of the reasons that we've said i think that omar is playing the best game it's in my opinion omar's game to lose at this stage and then christian here said his final five would be drea omar marianne romeo and mike i've had a few people on twitter tell me that i'm sleeping on the other hand yeah the romeo's not getting there but a few people would have said to me that i'm sleeping on marianne they're saying marianne's gonna go way deeper than what i'm seeing richard i think you got the biggest reaction there i don't know like i mean to be honest can you sleep on mary anne can you not see her coming like i feel like everybody would see her coming because she's just the ball of energy he's the loudest person but i mean i don't want to sound like a jerk but on the first episode i just knew that you know if i was on an island with her i wouldn't get i mean i tried to do my best to get along with her but i feel like her personality would really like being in my face and it wouldn't work well but i mean we've seen her use her emotion as a way of gameplay to make people do a certain thing we're seeing her being able to have a good read on the outside audience in terms of her playing the idol and she's a super fan i mean she's always constantly commenting on twitter about her takes so clearly there is a good player in her and we're seeing her having some good reads but you know i mean

1:33:32 I don't know it's like hit or miss but you know not too much of a marian fan but you know she's a fan i can't see this particular jury voting for marianne over most other people in the game yeah i just i'm not sure i see that maybe she's sitting next to maybe romeo and dragon she wants in the landslide in my opinion exactly i feel like draya would win against most people at this point omar i think could win against most people would be very easy i think i think i think at this stage would be the one like i honestly think she would get the votes against them because omar's game is so understated in the in the shadows like it's not in your face like dress game is out there for everybody to see you know what i mean but yeah we also have sonia here saying that just correcting me on my take and that's always why it's so hard sonia when you're getting these chats coming and you don't know what someone means by but she's saying i'm not saying i'm not playing but he's getting her winners in it which makes sense i mean shawn had a really good winners edit early on i think a lot of people i thought she was going to win that season as well just based on that i know chantelle was very happy that she could still be the first chantel from canada so yeah marianne can't win either she can't be the first black canadian female to win survivors

1:34:52 Though yeah oh she ain't winning hey guys it's been so great to talk to you about this week's episode of survivor 42 for those that stuck around all the way an hour and 35 minutes in i really appreciate it there is some great interviews still hitting the channel at the moment there's going to be some more shorter form videos on the challenge as we go into all-stars three as well that will hit the channel in the next couple of weeks just to say thank you for all those challenge fans that have subscribed to the channel and chantelle as always will be back with us to talk about a lot of challenge content here on the nullified take channel as well but chantal what else do you have going on at the moment on reality realness with three s's for those who don't know so things are pretty getting kind of quiet right now and we're coming to the end of big brother obviously still doing survivor on thursdays usually at seven p.m eastern but next week is gonna be a little bit different for me because i will be going to new york with rob as a podcast and so we're doing a live no dolls on wednesday so i will be over in new york with all the festivities meeting all the other podcasters meeting all the other patrons and meeting rob in real life so that's kind of what i'm going to be focusing on i'll hopefully i'll do a lot of instagram stories and even maybe putting some up on like my channel stories and using that so you guys can see what's going on with i heard that we're supposed to maybe

1:36:12 Meet chanel might be someone that we meet well i saw that jamal or jamal is going to be there this weekend wendell and so there's probably gonna be other survivors that i'm gonna get a chance to meet next week and so i'll do my best to get some pictures get some insight get some maybe some interviews who knows what's gonna happen but i will be immersed in a survivor heavy community so just confused to what's to come because i have no idea what to expect and who i'm going to meet but i'll definitely do my best to document as much of it as possible and then when i get back on thursday at some point i'll figure out what i'm going to do about the rest of big brother but thursday will probably be concluding this season but i'm not sure about the times and all that stuff right now chantal remains the hardest working woman in the industry at the moment we're doing all of these different things for the fans out there so please go give her a follow a subscription if you haven't done so already at reality realness with three esses it's also one of the channels that i feature here on the nullified take channel as well richard where can people follow you if they wanted to hear your takes on episodes i know you're not going to be back until survivors of africa is probably to do some content for that we might do some offseason content prior to that season as well it's exciting for everybody that's from south africa but if people wanted to hear your thoughts just

1:37:33 In general where can they follow you on twitter or any other socials i try not to say much on twitter because i have this thing in my mind that one of the producers for the show is going to see what i say and then not cost me because of that like i have this weird paranoia that always goes in my head but otherwise if you didn't see this if larry watches this just forget about this whole podcast please yeah i was actually using it i was actually talking to dean about three hours ago in terms of you know me being scared that some of the things i see here could actually you know be my influence but she was like nah don't worry about that you know it shouldn't be something by the way jack berger got on the show after doing a podcast so i don't think just by doing a podcast you won't get on the show to be honest with you so you could still get there for yourself yeah but on in on all my socials it's basically my name richard underscore gobbledy and that's about it great go give richard a follow if you guys want to hear more about his thoughts on this season as always guys thank you so much for being with us and we'll catch you next time and bye