Survivor 50 | Episode 11 | Recap

0:02 [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Welcome back to the channel.

0:53 We're back to talk about Survivor 50 episode 11. I'm your host Chris and with me is my co-host Andre. Andre, how are you doing? >> pretty good. I was very scared that this twist was going to be I mean it was a terrible twist, but it ended up with some really good TV. So, I'm pretty happy about that. just It's a good amount of warmth to watch Survivor when it's so cold here in Sydney. >> 100% and I think this twist kind of worked because of the characters, the returning players, the legacy behind some of the vote outs, all of that and made it extremely juicy. I wonder if this twist works as well in a new era, new season, new cast where we don't care as much about the players that are involved in both of these tribes. I think it was just the perfect recipe. I don't know if it should be a one and done if we should see it come back, but I guess we'll talk about all of that.

1:45 I just want to apologize up front for anybody listening to this at a later stage if my microphone sounds a little bit different. I had some technical issues before going live here today. So, I am just on the headset. So, I will try and get that sorted over the next week so we can get the sound up and running again. Willie, welcome to the live, first person in the live here saying, "I seen episode 11 and I'm happy that Cirie survived of Matt that Ozzy ruined her plans." And it is going to be an Ozzy heavy episode. Andre, what was your thoughts? Like, give us your ballpark view of this episode. Like, are you as emotionally drained as I am after this episode watching it, seeing how it I guess played out, you know? I'm not even the biggest Ozzy fan, but I felt it. >> Yeah, I felt so bad for him cuz I got flashbacks to Micronesia of him getting voted off with the idol.

2:35 Like, it was it was pretty much exactly the same thing happened. And what really pained me was, you know, I thought that this was an Ozzy set up to win, right? I think we both have been talking about it quite a lot. We thought he had a lot of equity and just to know that the story, they set up the story for us to be heartbroken is [snorts] like a dagger through my heart, but also I love it because it's such good TV and it just I think it's like a really useful lesson that it's like, you know, a leopard can't change its spots, right? Like, it's like he could be Ozzy all he wants, but at the end of the day he'll still be Ozzy, you know, that kid from Micronesia and Cook Islands that, you know, a little bit arrogant, little bit full of himself, puts foot in the mouth and eventually gets voted off because of his own arrogance. So I loved it.

3:26 I was I was it was it was masterful television, to be honest. >> Yeah. There was growth this season from Ozzy and we saw that growth. We saw him embody the spirit of Ozzy, his dad, out there trying to be a bit more social, playing a bit more of a strategic game this time around. And he definitely moved in the right direction this season, but it's to your point, like if your baseline is Ozzy and you're really this bit of an arrogant kid, you're a little bit of a loner, you're probably a little bit of an introvert. You want to do it yourself. It's like how much can you improve? And I think that it's fascinating seeing a player like Ozzy who's played this game for a couple of decades now, to see where can he move? And even at his best, this is the best that we've seen Ozzy play the game, and still wasn't enough to get him to the end. And I think now, Andre, that we've seen Ozzy getting voted out in this episode, like even though you and I were both high, we were like, is this an Ozzy win?

4:18 Like possibly does Ozzy get to the end and we're just being shown how him and Cirie working together helped them get there. He's the one that takes Cirie out at the end to get the votes from the jury. But now when you look back at the edit in hindsight, the signs were always there. The signs were always there that he was still Ozzy. I mean, he couldn't make a decision without Cirie on the same beach as him. And that was his Achilles' heel this episode. Cirie literally not being on the beach there to be his eyes and ears to tell him what to do, how high to jump, where to vote. Like, you know, he just didn't have that guidance. And I do think that without Cirie he probably would have floundered sooner this season as well. Like she's kind of the reason he got as far as he did in the game. Do you agree with that? >> Yeah, I was going to say I think if she wasn't there, he would have been voted off by Christian pre-merge, to be honest. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, no, I think that I think he like the fact that Cirie was there, I think that the way that he adapted his game to be like really close with Cirie.

5:16 I don't know if it's that necessarily very different to what happened in Game Changers. We just didn't see what happened in Game Changers. The fact that sort of it ended in this big crescendo, like this pretty epic sort of Tribal Council and vote off. I'm glad that we got that story, cuz I think so like we talk about edit, we talk about the edit, we talk about everything. but really at the end of the day, I feel that this season it is a kind of like pulling one over on us, which I'm all for. Like, you know, we thought that Christian was doing I thought that Christian was doing pretty well. You know, I had Ozzy pegged in. And who know I don't know what's going to happen at the end. Like, anybody can win. Well, Tiffany can't win. but anybody can win, right? >> My sights are firmly set on Aubry after this episode. Like, I was already starting to say she's looking like a likely winner.

6:07 I think this episode even more now solidifies for me there's a way like there's seven players left in the game. I think Aubry there's a world where Aubry gets to the final and she's sitting next to Jonathan and Joe. I can see it happening and her taking a win in that spot. And I just feel like the story is being said even like next to Rizo. Like, apparently Rizo doesn't have much like aura in this in this tribe from people who are getting voted out. They're saying like no one actually knows what Rizo is doing. He's just sitting there. He's not really like Yeah, so I just don't I think there's a lot of places where she could still win. Like, at this stage the only two people that probably still left in the game that I think would beat Aubry. Cuz I also think that this is going to be a bitter jury and I think it's going to get the brunt of it. And I don't think even though we're getting we're being shown Jonathan playing a game and him wanting to put notches on his belt. I don't think the jury is going to give him those notches at the end. Like, I could see him get to the end and then just lose because he didn't stick with certain people.

7:01 Like, I think your coaches and your Chrissys might go for her. But I don't know if he's got enough votes across the board. But again, there's a little bit of game left to play. I want to I want to circle back and I want to get too far into the Aubry thing because we'll talk about why I think the editors are pointing us more and more towards Aubry's way. But Ozzy talking about his dad, talking about the first time that he was out there, how he didn't do his dad justice. I thought it was beautiful how the show allowed for Ozzy to right the wrongs of the past. To sort of, you know, have this even though his dad's not around to see it, he got a bit of a redemption being able to give his dad justice in this moment. And then the beautiful moment between him and Rick Devens of all people who's a new dad. I thought that this is what makes Survivor great is these human moments, these bigger cuz we all have you know, dads I would imagine. We all like most of us and we all know that you know, being a parent and being a son it can be a complicated relationship sometimes, right?

7:55 So, I thought it was beautiful and quite relatable to see that play out on our screens. >> It reminded me of Jay and Adam in Millennials vs. Gen X on the on the hammock when sort of this is why we like Survivor because it's always like kind of like a show rather than tell and I know it's kind of it's also telling us about it, but sort of seeing that emotion and that's I think that's what a lot of people have been critical of Survivor of lately where they would have all these like sub stories of just somebody talking to the camera and trying to push their push their story onto the viewer that the viewer doesn't really care. But me as a viewer, I care. I care about all these story cuz we've seen the journey. we care about how Rick reacts, right? Because we have come with Rick on this journey. So, I think that moment I think it definitely set up Ozzy's downfall of course which was another heartbreak.

8:45 What does it say about Rick, right? Cuz I was going to say the same thing you say about Aubry but about Rick as well. and then also with Jonathan, I think that maybe we're not being set up for a Jonathan win per se, but me as a viewer, I think that Jonathan is playing the best game outside of Cirie to be honest. >> Yeah. >> I mean that's maybe that's a hot take, but that's why I think that sort of like these human moments that we're sort of seeing it for me it elevated our Rick. I don't know about you. >> I think I think if Rick gets to the end, Rick can win this game 100%. Like I mean he's got the credibility to win the game. I think and again, I might be reading into much into the edit. The reason I'm bringing Aubry's name out is because I don't think she said a couple of episodes like I listen to the editors when they throw certain things in there, right?

9:36 And she said "People have always underestimated me in this game somehow. I'm going to have to show them what I can do." And she is a great player. If you think back about her first season strategically, she was a powerhouse, right? And then she talked about Michelle. Michelle not necessarily playing the biggest game from the start, but playing very strong towards the end to win the game, and she thinks that it's still doable. She's seen it happen before. Those things are being put in there for a very specific reason. And in this episode, the whole vote off, like, it was clearly Jonathan's plan, but they had to show us how Aubry also, you know, started throwing mud onto his grave or digging his grave by what he told her. And they made it a big thing where I feel like the editors wanted us to credit Aubry with the move against Ozzy in this episode. But I don't really think that what she did going to Rizo and Jonathan had Oh, sorry, Joe had any effect. It had no effect. It was Jonathan coming over who was the real person driving it, who went back to Cirie to get the okay from Cirie so Joe felt good enough to actually do it.

10:32 But I think that they're showing us this move because Aubry's going to claim it at the end. And we need to see it in some ways. But in a lot of ways, I think the other players don't see Aubry as a threat right now. They don't look at her like a Rick Devens. They don't look at her as like a Jonathan. They don't look at her as like some of the players that are out there that like a Cirie. Cirie's by far the biggest threat right now in my mind. So I see a world where she gets to the end and she just hasn't really pissed off a lot of people. Like, who has Aubry betrayed in this game? And this is the age-old thing about juries at the end that get pissed off about people who should have had their back, didn't have their back, didn't take a bullet for them, and then they vote for the person who had the least blood on their hands. And I can see Aubry getting Will it be an exciting one if Aubry gets to the end right now? Will I be like saying, "Wow, Aubry played a game to be Like, I mean, she should be proud of any game she plays. Personally, $2 million is a lot of money, and she should be happy.

11:24 But as a fan watching it, was it an entertaining one? At this stage, it wouldn't be for me personally. I don't know if I'm being too harsh, but yeah. >> No, I think well, you the one thing you didn't mention was I think last episode when she talked it out of Michelle and Michelle's win. And she specifically said, "You like you don't need to play a good early game to win. You just need to play a good end game." And then and then it's that sort of linked back to Edge of Extinction where she was one of the biggest proponents for Chris Underwood who very famously played one of the greatest last three days of Survivor ever played. So, I don't think she needs to do anything until the I mean, she started doing something today, but like that's not to me, if I'm a player inside the game, I don't attribute that to Aubry. I attribute that to Ozzy shooting himself in the foot, Rizo backstabbing him, Jonathan sort of taking a swing at him.

12:17 I don't attribute that to Aubry. So, I think if Aubry wins, she will be making big moves later on. I think that's all that matters cuz that's that is the that's what they're sort of they're building up to. But to play devil's advocate, if she doesn't win, if she gets to the end and doesn't win, it would be because she didn't make those big moves, right? I don't necessarily think that It's like what if I'm looking at the game right now, who's make to me, I think that Jonathan and Cirie are making the big moves. Like Jonathan, like he's very arrogant in his confessionals. He's like, "You know, another notch, another notch. This is me. This is me. This is me." Got to admit, like that it is him, but I think people won't necessarily give him the respect cuz they still perceive Jonathan as sort of the gentle giant or the maybe just the clumsy guy that doesn't know how to do strategy, where I think that people are underestimating him, to be honest.

13:11 >> Yeah, I think that for some of the reason, he's not going to get the respect. Like I mean, we know Ozzy is a better person. And he was better even on the way out in the Redemption Coach. And you know, Cirie's going to get backstabbed at some point as well. Like for him to get to the end, like I just don't see Cirie now. Like what's the biggest move? You say that, you know, she hasn't made that big move, but I still believe, to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate, that the editors are telling us she was a part of the move, and that's why they showed us the whole thing about Ozzy. Like, if she was or not, that's up for debate, but the editors clearly want us to believe she's a part of this move. You know, the fact that Ozzy came to her, told her his whole game, is another great sort of bit of evidence to how much they're underestimating Aubry in this game right now, because he's like, she's harmless, she's on the way out, she's not getting to the end.

14:02 I'll tell her who I'm aligned with, what I'm going to do, who I'm cutting. Like, Cirie's my day one, I'm going to get to the end, Cirie's got the extra vote. That's the crazy thing for me, Andrea, it's like he's giving information to Aubry about advantages that are still in play. Like, these advantages hasn't even been played yet, and he's like, I'll give you the playbook on what's happening right now. and to do that, like again, it's a bad read on Ozzy to tell any other player that, hey, I want you to go to the end and vote for me, or even do your jury pitch before she's even on the jury. and it and it kind of points towards the fact that Aubry's being underestimated in this moment, and she takes all that information to her credit, and does do the right thing by telling the likes of Andrea who's aligned with him, hey, this is what's going on. Hey, Joe, this is what's going on, right? so I do think she played it well, as well as she could have played in this in this episode. I don't know if she ultimately influenced the vote. so I'm in agreement with you on that one.

14:54 >> I yeah, that's my take. I think that I think Ozzy Well, Ozzy put his foot in the mouth, so you can't say if Ozzy didn't put his foot in the mouth. He did put his foot in the mouth. If he's if he still did the same thing, Jonathan was always going to want to take a swing at him, and I think in this like terrible twist, I will say terrible twist, interesting outcomes, but the fact that Jonathan got to go to the two tribal council. He's a He functionally won two overpowered individual immunities, meaning and he was a swing vote in both Tribal Councils. That's probably the most That's probably the best immunity That's probably the best challenge to ever win in the history of Survivor cuz that's just so overpowered when you can just basically bend the entire game to your will, get out two people you don't like, be completely protected. I think whoever Jonathan wanted to wanted to go home in either Tribal Councils probably would have gone home.

15:47 If Jonathan wanted to get out Cirie, I'm sorry, Cirie would have been gone. It doesn't matter if she had extra vote or not. same thing with he wanted out Ozzy. The only way that Ozzy doesn't go home is if Ozzy plays the idol. And you know, I It was a It was a mistake from Jonathan to tell Joe. I mean, he maybe shouldn't take those marching orders as much from Cirie, which proves how good Cirie is, right? Cirie can sort of put them into position that, you know, Ozzy could get a could have gotten ticked off if Rizo woke up on the other side of the bed that morning, right? But he didn't, so, you know, now we're left with what? Final seven now? >> Yeah. >> And I think that it's pretty much anyone's game in my opinion. >> Yeah. It's I feel like from final nine to final seven is so pivotal and like the dynamics has changed so much now by taking out Ozzy, by taking out Emily, who's probably a little bit more of a non-factor, but the Ozzy one was such a big vote and obviously the second vote out of the night.

16:44 One thing that I wanted to point out and then I'm going to go into some of the comments cuz I know that our live audience have been passionately typing some comments in their favor so we haven't because you and me have been going back and forth because it's the evidence of a good episode when we go on a tangent like this in my mind. But you know, cuz I'm excited to talk about it. You mentioned that Jonathan had this immunity and it's probably like the most powerful one today, which it is and it's a power broker position where he gets to walk back and forth between the tribes. And I feel like with anything in Survivor, you know, there is a an equally strong counter negative to the power that you'd get. And for me, Jonathan getting this, having blood on his [clears throat] hands, having to vote out two people in this moment, while other people there kind of get a freebie. Like again, Aubry, just because I'm my eyes are on you, Aubry. I'm like, I feel like you've got a chance here. She's sitting there, she's got absolutely nothing to do with the Emily vote out.

17:35 She can claim, "Hey, I didn't know what you wanted to do, Cirie. I didn't like Jonathan told us you were good with Ozzy going home." You know, like she's in a really good position because she doesn't have to get her blood or hands dirty. Or any of those other players that aren't in both Tribal Councils. So, there is definitely this negative effect to it as well. The great thing about it is that you do get to dictate who you go to final seven with. And if you know that you can get the right people in both tribes surviving, the right three and three surviving there, that you can work with, you can really set yourself up for the end game here. And this And a guy like Jonathan just being physically as big as he is, he's not going to be able to play under the cover or under the radar for the final seven. People are going to notice him. But this is a stacked final seven though. Like you've got Cirie in the game who like might be one of the most stacked final sevens we've had in a long time now that I think about it. You've got Cirie in the game who's been the power player. Whoever takes out Cirie in the game in my mind probably has the biggest case to winning the season just because of how dominant she's been.

18:28 Then you've got Jonathan in the game who love him or hate him, he has been a big strategic force this season and he has been Like not everything's gone his way, but he's been involved, right? And then you've got the likes of you know, Rick Devens who's up the ante to $2 million, flipped the coin, been just fun to watch this whole episode. Like I mean, Andre, if you could be anyone in Survivor playing season 50, you'd be Rick Devens, right? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'd be doing the doing the fun of dance. >> [laughter] >> Rick Devens would be Rick Devens and we would be Rick Devens if we were to play this game, right? He had so much fun out there. So, but I mean, he's a threat still to win this game. Then Aubry, I think is becoming She's that undercover person starting to rise to the top. And the only two players that I almost feel like have zero shot at winning this game at this point is Joe and Rizo in my mind. I just don't see either one of those two winning the game.

19:19 >> I was going to say Joe and Tiffany myself. >> I had I forgot about her. She's purple, right? >> Yes, she's such she's such a non-factor. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> >> I think Rizo still has an outside chance. If Rizo in public backstabs three and owns that move, I think he still can win. and I actually I disagree with you. I don't think the person the person that doesn't have blood on the hand is going to win Survivor 50. I think the person that makes the biggest moves, that backstabs the most amount of people, I think they're the people they're going to win Survivor 50, to be honest. We saw it happen to Tony. I think the days of All-Stars are long gone. I think that people and to a lesser degree sort of like heroes versus villains, of course, you know, Russell wasn't going to win cuz he rubbed people the wrong way. But if you can if you can make these big moves and don't apologize for it, be humble about it like, "Hey, you know, I had to get you out because you were the biggest threat." I think that person is going to win, not necessarily the person that wins.

20:16 >> not talking about Andre, we're not talking about a normal season here. We're talking about a returnee season of non-winners. Like yes, and Winners at War, winners respected the game enough to give the win to Tony and they wanted to make sure that season was represented by someone that truly played a powerful game that season, right? But now we're playing with players like Coach, Ozzy, like people who they don't I don't think that they don't think about the game the same way. Like there's some old-school players there that I feel like it will be better that come from a different era where why is it not me being at the end? Like I mean, they've got like some To be on reality TV, you have to have some narcissistic tendencies. I'm not saying any of them any of them are narcissists, but most of them are the hero of their own story, right? And they fell short. So I think that we could get a different kind of jury at the end here, compared to a normal new era season, where I agree with you.

21:06 Now people kind of respect game and they can put their feelings aside because at the kind of it's this is a whole new era of people who have grown up watching Survivor seeing better juries vote in a way that didn't potentially award the best player of the season. I'm saying potentially because I know people will debate that. But one of the players that were the best they might not actually win the season based on the fact that they hurt a lot of people's feelings. And I feel like that has changed. You're right. But there's some old school people playing this game and there's some people that I feel like won't look at the game the same way you and I do. But the jury's still out on it. Let's have a quick look and say hello to a few people here. Alexa, welcome. Alexa, welcome back to the channel. Says, "Hey Prince, glad to catch another live. Devastated to see Ozzy go home in the way that he did. So sad that he told Aubry everything. I wanted to scream at the TV." I think we were all the sad to see it play out the way that it did. I'm still so sad that Drea didn't tell him to play his idol. Cirie really tried her best to save him.

21:58 It's so poetic that this extra vote saved Cirie in the same episode that his idol didn't save him. totally agree with that. it was very sad to see Ozzy leave. He trusted the team so much that he did not expect the blindside. It was so sad but very interesting. Christian, welcome. Let's see what other people are saying. Georgette, welcome to the live. Christian here saying Cirie needs to win the next immunity challenge and idol and final immunity challenge. Like that's a big ask, Christian. Like I mean, she's never won anything. And now >> won an immunity challenge ever in her career? >> I don't think so. I don't think I can't remember it. But maybe the live audience will tell us. I don't think so. agree about Jonathan's belt. He doesn't have any notches and the only reason he was able to get Ozzy out is because Cirie wasn't there and the stupid twist. Jonathan is at best a zero but finalist.

22:49 I just don't I see it like Lexa does. I think people are not going to respect Yeah. >> I don't think I don't think we can attribute that to Rizzoli. Aubry, maybe so much. But if I'm in the game, I'm not attributing it to Aubry. I'm attributing to Jonathan because he's the one that had the power. But you could also say, you know, Jonathan had the power, he had immunity. We can't really give it to him he because he was kind of immune at that stage, so. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be interesting. I agree. There's some There's some votes he didn't get, but I do give I do give Jonathan credit for taking out Ozzy. And was it the right move for Jonathan to take out Ozzy, Andre? Do you think this was the best time to do it? >> Yeah. I think he should have taken out Cirie. But if he took out Cirie, he wouldn't have been able to take out Ozzy, cuz Ozzy would have been spooked and he would have been taken off the table cuz he would have played his immunity idol. So I think the better move is If I'm Jonathan, the better move is to get rid of Cirie.

23:39 Because Cirie is a power broker, like the real power broker, not the twist power broker. but I think Ozzy's a good >> Can I But can I can I play devil's advocate to that? All right. So think about it this way. I like the fact that you said if they voted out Cirie first, Ozzy would have been spooked. He probably would have played his idol cuz he's like something's happening against us. >> Yeah. >> the big thing for me is that you take all I agree. Between the two, who's the most likely to win? Probably Cirie. Cirie's the brains behind this, right? But Ozzy can win his way to the end and he's got an idol. So he's Jonathan's biggest competition in these individual immunities. And if Cirie got taken out, he plays his idol, there's always this chance that Ozzy goes on some sort of a run towards the end of the game, where you know Cirie's not doing it. Like I think a lot of people are not afraid to keep Cirie in the game because of her history of not winning individual immunities. Because they feel like we can take her out next week. >> Well, who's the other Who's the other option?

24:30 The other option is Aubry. I mean, based on what you said earlier in the in the podcast, >> Yeah. >> in retrospect, maybe it is Aubry. Cuz we've seen Aubry do this before. She We've seen her >> People are underestimating her. >> Yeah. >> People are underestimating her. That's the problem. I don't think I think This is where I think there's a disconnect between the reality of what's happening on the show there and what people think of Aubry versus what the editors want us to think of Aubry. You know what I mean? Like I think the editors are showing us Aubry's playing a great game. I don't think that the players in the game at this point currently sees it. If Aubry wins the season, it's going to be the way that she spins it in the final Tribal Council and having less blood on her hands. And that's why I'm saying it. I feel like it could be one of those classic wins that just won't be as exciting to see play out in my mind. I hope I hope I hope she >> Well, yeah. It also explains why the editors showed her so badly to begin with because if we built buy into the whole you have to you can start badly but then you have to you know finish strong, then maybe at the end it's like let's pile on Aubry at the very beginning.

25:30 Show how bad of a situation she was truly in. Let's show her really neg- maybe not really negatively but to some viewers negatively. and then that will make her end game seem way more impressive because she started from and we saw that in her first season. We saw that with Chrissy in her first season. You know, you Holly Hoffman. You really start them at the lowest of low and then you have the real hero's journey. So I can definitely see that happening. You don't You don't typically see somebody like, oh they started off really amazing and they just had like a you know, an iron grip on the game the entire time. That's not interesting TV, right? You want to see sort of the growth, the hero's journey. So I can definitely buy into that. >> Yeah, and I think regardless, like I even though I say it's not going to be maybe a win that I would deem exciting, you still got to respect the win. She's had very little agency in the game from the beginning until now.

26:21 She hasn't really I don't like who's Aubry's ride or die in this game? Like I mean, that's really difficult to say. >> I would say it's Jonathan. even though Jonathan has sort of her and Jonathan have had like a pretty rocky relationship but I still say they always come back together. Like it comes back to during the merge. They're like, Jonathan's like, no one would ever think that me and Aubry would be working together. We really tied. So I actually see that as kind of like I think that Aubry and Jonathan is kind of what we thought Cydney's risen of Oz was, right? I think that they're actually secretly the power duo, which I'm all for. I think it's I think it's I would have never Coming into season 50, I would have never thought that Jonathan and Aubry, even though the first like pre-merge, that Jonathan and Aubry would be the ones that kind of are running the game right now. >> Yeah, so can we just stop talking about pre-game alliances and how important pre-game alliances are to the show because clearly it shows you the organic alliances that are happening on the show as the thing that actually matters in the end because this big pre-game alliance got completely decimated that Jonathan was a part of.

27:22 And it was only after Coach was gone and after Chrissy was gone that Aubry and Jonathan kind of came together to say, "Hey, let's work together. Let's like and credit to Jonathan for working with people." Like you said in his previous seasons, he maybe wouldn't have worked with. And you know, another very subtle thing this episode that stood out for me with Jonathan, because there's some people who I think just dislikes Jonathan for being Jonathan. I know that some of the fans don't like him. I'm not one of those people. I actually do like Jonathan. I don't know if he'll win the season, but you know, the subtle thing about him going to the island and talking to Aubry and saying, "Hey, this is what's going on." And Aubry being, "Hey, who do you want to vote for?" And him turning it around, and he's been doing it all season, right? And saying, "Actually, I'm not the one in danger. You tell me what you want to do. It's your life that's on Like he's taking control, and he knows what he wants to do, but he's kind of it doesn't come across like he's forcing it on people, right? And that's a subtle Survivor play that I think we have to give him credit for.

28:14 And clearly, him talking to Boston Rob before the season started, like you can see that Boston Rob has had an influence in this game this season. >> Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but he had a pretty strong alliance with Maryanne in his original season, right? I see some parallels between that and then Aubry, where it's like you might not necessarily peg that Jonathan and Maryanne would like really work together, but I think this is what this is >> No, but there's what? Maryanne won that season. So, it's a good spot for Aubry to be in. >> Yeah, Maryanne did win that season, right? And she won the season by playing a very strong end game, too. So, there you go. You know, any and she had the only secret in the game. So, No, I think I think that it's well in sort of the playbook of Jonathan. I think the it's just that this season Jonathan is getting a very different he's evolved his game, but he's also getting a very different edit.

29:05 I think that they're trying to give him almost like almost like the Boston Rob edit, where they're like, "Okay, he's the one that's controlling. He's the one that's arrogant in the confessionals. He's the one that's sort of like, you know, giving them direction." Cuz we always saw him in the pre-merge. We always saw him sort of like, "You know, I'm placed well." And then we also saw him even when he lost all of his allies, he still is able to get through just through sheer force of will, just through his physical prowess or you know, just through his relationships as well. That makes a very strong player. I don't know if it's a winning game, but I think he can get to the end. I think that we're probably seeing a losing finalist. I On your point, like I don't see him getting vote >> I mean, he could he could go out at fire making like he did in his first season. Like that's definitely a possibility. and that's what I thought would happen with Cirie. but then it's like kind of like then you have to kind of like do a reverse engineering.

29:57 It's like, "Okay, who's being set up to lose fire making and who's being set up to win fire making and stuff?" And I don't think we've seen those clues yet. >> Do you think that Do you think that this cast will take the risk to take Cirie deep enough into the game to make fire against her? Just on the off chance that she wins fire, gets to the end, and then wins the whole thing? Like I feel like I Devon's would do that cuz he literally already played with his life on a 50/50 flip. So, I don't know if everybody else will do it, but it's almost like, "Who do you want to go up against when it comes to fire making?" Like is there a better person to go against than Cirie at this stage in the game? I don't know if there is a better person that you can go up against. >> Well, are we in agreement that Cirie, if she gets to the final cuz we've never seen her at a final like that's strange to say. We've her. Yeah, we've never seen her at a final tribal. Can she beat everybody? Can she beat Rick? >> so. >> Yeah, so >> I think I think she can.

30:49 I think Rick's rubbed some people the wrong way as well with the way that he plays, but I think that he would get Yeah, exactly like Joe. Which funny enough Cirie's like that. Survivor, you know, you say that it's tokenizing, I say it's Survivor, but I do think that Cirie just by her legacy and respect that she has within the community. And let's be honest, she has been the one that people have gone to every single vote to say, "What do we do? Where do we vote? Cirie, are you giving your rubber stamp of approval for us to do certain things in the game?" How can you not respect that if she gets to the final? I do think she's the biggest threat right now. Like if she gets there she wins in my mind. >> So, I mean in that stage, nobody is incentivized to ever take her to the final immunity challenge. I mean, sorry, the final tribal council. That and can she ever win a fire making Did she win the fire making?

31:41 She did two fire making challenges in Australian Survivor. Did she win either of them? I don't remember. >> No, I don't think so. >> Yeah, so it's like I think you probably Rick would take the risk. Risk like But then again, Rick probably has PTSD for losing final And I think a lot of these people do. Like Jonathan lost, Rick lost, Cirie lost many times Well, Cirie's the one we're talking about. But I think those two, if you're at a final four and those two are there then it's like, "Well, I don't know." Or final five, they're like, "We don't want this to happen again." Like let's just get rid of her. Just the same way that Cirie's kind of like reverse engineering saying, "I don't want any idols in here because look what happened in Game Changers." Maybe Rick and Jonathan might come together as like "Mate, we've been here both here before. It's like we don't want to be in this situation. We don't want to Like they could probably have PTSD as like, 'Oh, we might lose to Cirie in the final fire making challenge.

32:32 Let's get rid of her in final five so this doesn't happen.'" >> Yeah. let's read a couple more comments here. Jack is saying, "I think Aubry getting Ozzy was a game-winning move." totally agree. Lexi here says, "I interpret that as now if you go to the end of three, I'll make sure no one votes for you, Rizo, and everyone votes for three. Rizo's done jury management-wise." so this is part of a second one here. So Lexi says, "The part of the episode that stuck with me the most is how Ozzy told Rizo, 'But it's too late to explain and he can't explain.'" yeah, it's not great. Like I can understand Ozzy was pretty heated in the moment there, but we do need to talk about the Rizo at all, but let me just first see if there is any other comments here that I can bring up. Jack is saying Rizo wasn't going to win this season regardless. I agree. Rizo's too young. He hasn't No one's seen his previous game. it he would have had to have played a very ballsy game, like a Rick Devens style game, I think, this season to come out swinging to be able to win or get the respect of this specific group of players.

33:32 I'll just go to personally make this his mission now to make sure that anyone but Rizo, preferably three, walks away with that two million. so a lot of comments around Rizo. Okay, so let's talk about Rizo because there's a lot of comments coming up about Rizo. Andrea Rizo in this moment, Cirie does everything in her power. She can't tip off Ozzy directly, but she's like, "If [snorts] Rizo gets a hold of this message, then surely he's going to go and try and save Ozzy in this moment and will tell Ozzy that the votes are coming his way." and maybe this is the part that, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, this is why I love the live podcast cuz I didn't really think about this prior to coming in. We give Jonathan the credit, right, for the move, which rightfully so, he made it happen. But will Aubry take credit for breaking the alliance between Rizo and Ozzy? Cuz I feel like that's where she does have a claim. The reason Rizo did not save Ozzy in this moment was because Aubry went back to talk to Rizo about, "Hey, here's the game plan.

34:27 This is what Ozzy's telling me." And clearly that was the deciding factor in this tribal. Where if the votes was going to go to Ozzy's regardless, Rizo could have still tipped him off. Rizo still could have saved him. So, Aubry directly did have an impact on Ozzy going home because she tipped off Rizo who ultimately said, "I'm not walking in front of a freight train for you in this moment." >> Yeah, well, if I'm Rizo, what do I do? I One of the comments said that Rizo had no chance of winning anyway, which I agree with. Like, if he goes to the end with Cirie and Ozzy, he loses. Like, let's even find the floor. Like, that means that implies that he goes to the end with one of them, he loses, frankly. So, if I'm Rizo, what do I do? this is a great opportunity to get rid of one of Cirie or Ozzy. If I'm Rizo, how do I win? I have to get to the end with Joe and Tiffany.

35:18 Like, that's his only chance of winning. Like, he loses to pretty much everyone else, I think. So, on paper, that's the right thing for him to do. But, the problem is he got into that situation to begin with. It's like, "Oh, maybe you should have been the one that did the Mr. Beast coin, or maybe you should have been" But, I don't blame Rizo. He's playing back-to-back. He's clearly not eating anything. He's been sick the last week. So, I get why he's in that situation. So, I Yeah, I don't know what I would do if I was Rizo because the Rizo situation is a little bit harder, and he's made an enemy in Ozzy now, and you know, you probably you probably credit Jonathan and Aubry in front of him, too. So, he's kind of like in a in a no-win situation. Maybe you could save Ozzy. You could tip off Ozzy this episode, and then backstab Ozzy and Cirie next episode.

36:09 Get rid of those two on the on the trot, and then try to figure out a way to get out maybe like a Rick or a Aubry, and then go to the end with Joe and Tiffany. I think that's the only way that you could do it. That's probably a better path if I'm if I'm Rizo. Just keep the powerful one more week. You've still got an idol, but I think there's probably no way that he can win at this particular stage, to be honest. >> Yeah. Now, I feel like this is one of those things where Russell's got a very He's got a very this is what it was strange to me the first season I played because he kept talking about how great he was and about how the moves he was making was so game-breaking, right? And I looked at it and I was like, you're playing an okay game, but you're not really directing the flow of the game. Like, I didn't think that in his original season he directed the flow. I just think that he was sort of at the right place at the right place at the right time with Savannah. They kind of they were kind of lucky to get out of Well, again, Savannah, you create your own luck, right?

37:01 But, I didn't feel like he was like this game-changing player that was directing the flow for most of that season. It was more other players were making flaws or, you know, they were kind of falling apart around him. And Savannah, it was a It was a strange season towards the end. And I guess he had the idol that he didn't play, which we knew You know, we thought it wouldn't work this season. He's not played it and he's in the final seven already. So, it's working for a second season in a row. But, I think this time it's because he's a non-entity. And maybe last year the same thing happened where people just weren't that threatened by Russell. They didn't care if they take him out because there was other bigger players that were going after each other. They were taking each other out. Now, the second season is playing. And again, I think he's got this view that he's this mastermind. He's playing a great game. He's doing all these different things. So, I think in Russell's mind he still thinks he can win this game. And that's why he wanted Ozzy to be out. Maybe he is trying to see if he can go with Joe deep in the game because Joe didn't want to move unless he talked to Russell.

37:52 So, clearly there's a stronger relationship there than what we as the fans probably appreciate at this point. and I just Yeah, like cuz in my mind, if you play Russell like Russell two times coming in playing this game, and if you think you can't win the game, what do you do to get to the end to be remembered, to be legendary? In my mind, you go to the end with Ozzy and Cirie. But, that would be a losing game, obviously, in that case. But, the fact >> No one will ever remember Russell. Nobody will remember that Russell was the one that came to the end. I'm sorry to say, but I mean, he's just he's just the He's just the third like there's no there's no way that Rizo can win like in the this game in general, right? Because Rizo's the type person that I want to see in five or 10 years where I want to see like a maybe a 30-year-old or 30 maybe a 40-year-old Rizo. I want to see him come back, you know, like really later on I want to see like a all these people that were too young at the time, but like get them to mature a little bit like get Xander back.

38:46 Now he's probably like in his early 30s, you know, get these people that were super young come back again. Very similar to like Fabio. Well, Fabio won, right? So he has no >> [laughter] >> It's just like we saw it happen with Ozzy. Ozzy went on his first season he was kind of an arrogant little you know, I wasn't a fan of Ozzy. Wasn't a fan of Ozzy during Micronesia. I started to like him a little bit or he was interesting in South Pacific and then now we see sort of the pinnacle. It's like and then the real question that it becomes like does he change his game, you know, and it becomes interesting. And I think that you know, it was too similar like his game is too similar to his first game. There's been no change. There's been no growth. He did play a good first game. He got pretty much as far as he could get without actually getting to the end. >> So this is kind of what I was trying to get at.

39:37 Maybe I didn't I didn't articulate it as well as Lexa. Lexa, thank you for helping out here on the podcast, but saying Rizo could have cemented his legacy to become the next Colby Donaldson if he helped Cirie and Ozzy win. He's done now unless he can help Cirie win. I don't think we'll see Rizo return unless Cirie wins. And I think that's kind of the point like you know, he would have still been relevant as the person who was dumb enough. I don't know if you want to have that as your legacy, but you would have been remembered as the person who took the wrong people to the end and lost in the end, but at least you got to the final four and you got to the final tribal and you >> He's not Colby. He's Woo. >> Yeah, and I think for all transparency production loves Rizo. Rizo's coming back. He's a time player for sure. We're seeing him again, like I'll put money on it. Like >> Not two certain plays. Give you a five >> Yeah, I'm hoping. Yeah, give it five years, let him let him mature a little bit or something, but I think we'll see Aurezo back on the show for sure.

40:27 We haven't spoken much about Emily. Emily obviously being the other person that's voted out in this moment. I thought Emily had a like she's been chaotic this whole season. She's been, you know, loose lips, talk about all the advantages, played chaotic in a way that we sometimes didn't fully understand the strategy behind what she was doing, but I thought she had a pretty good exit episode. Like she went out swinging and, you know, production showed her trying like with this whole I'm going to get Rick to play the idol on me, let's split the votes on Rick, and then try and take out Cirie. Obviously her not knowing that Cirie's got the extra vote in this moment. I thought it was a good attempt by her and she went out swinging. What's your thoughts on Emily now that we've seen her play for two times, how she played this episode with Rick? I mean, she was in a bad spot here, right? >> Yeah, well, nobody knew that Cirie had an extra vote on that tribe. So, if you're looking at it objectively, it's basically a it's a 50/50 shot between you and Rick.

41:22 So, the only real way that you can do that is try to do the double bluff, which is what she did, but she got outsmarted by Cirie. My real question is if Cirie didn't have the extra vote, what would have the game play have been? Or what would have Cirie have done? Because Cirie's like the queen of the three two one vote. She had there were six votes in the in play at that particular time. Cirie played it beautifully, right? Cuz at that no stage like you can't you can't lose cuz you do a three split and it's like, well, I mean, Cirie will always get her way at that particular stage. so, it was a it was a valiant effort. There was no way for them to know that Cirie had an extra vote. I think even D on the on the jury was like, "Oh, there's an extra vote." No one on the jury knew either, right? Cuz why would they? Only three people knew. So, yeah, I mean, I was I think it was a redemption for Emily because I was kind of half expecting her to back Why I thought he she was backstabbing Rick.

42:16 I'm like, "And you don't need to do this. Come on. Like, why?" And then when we found out it's like, "Oh, she's actually still, you know, loyal and true to Rick." I'm like, "Well, thank god for that." she can she can leave with a head held high and I think she did. I think that was a good That was a good redemption arc. She had the exact same redemption arc in her first season to this season. You know, this was the theme of the season. No matter how much you try to change, you're still going to be the same old like player, right? both Emily and Ozzy sort of went out Emily went out on the same day. Ozzy went out the same way. that rhymes, but it's the same it's the same thematic idea. So, you know, good for Emily. I would I mean, I can't say I want to see her back to be honest cuz I don't know what we can see more of her. but I thought that's Emily's sort >> pretty I think Emily's pretty aware of that as well. Like, having sort of seen a little bit of her exit interviews and things like that, she said she's done.

43:09 She's not coming back. She doesn't believe the fans would want to see her again. She's pretty aware. But I mean, obviously if the right season comes up, yeah, you never know. You never know. Like, 10 years from now, right season comes up, the prize pots $5 million, like, you know, I think there's ways to get her to come back and play the game again. not that I want to see it either, but I'm happy with this two-season arc for Emily. And I feel like let's put that to bed now, but I'm also glad that she had a moment in the sun. She went up against the legend of Cirie trying to see if she can like outsmart her, but Cirie always at a different caliber, which at least Emily acknowledged to the camera. She's like, "I don't think Cirie's really buying this. I can see her wheels spinning, but you know, what am I going to do? I've got to try and save myself in this spot in the game. I've got to try and save Rick." >> But should she have actually backstabbed Rick, though? Should she have said Rick played her idol on me? I don't know. >> think Rick would have.

43:59 >> Rick would never have done >> think this No, I don't think there's any world like Rick for me like yes, he's to a risk-taker. I get it, but is there a worse situation for Rick than this five-person tribe? Like it's too risky in a five-person tribe to play your idol on anybody but yourself. This is which is the biggest reason why I was so shocked that Ozzy didn't play his idol, to be honest with you. It's like if there's ever a position where you're going to be trying to somebody's going to try and take you out, it's in the final like a final five situation where your idol is extremely powerful. Just play it. Just get to the next round. Have another day in the game. Like we've seen what this has done for a Rick Devens wins. That's right. Just like, yeah. Surviving one tribal council can be the difference between finding a coin and flipping it and getting another advantage in this game or getting on the right boat, you know? So, to me you just always take that chance and just play the idol in this moment. And I don't think Rick there's any world that Rick would have gambled with his own life after he had to already gamble with his own life to get the idol.

44:53 I just think there was no one else who was going to play that idol on but himself in that moment. And >> But if I mean if you are Rick and you are Emily, you don't know that there's an extra idol in play. So, with that logic, surely Rick should have played it for Emily. Because the other the other three know that they that Rick would never play it on anyone other than himself. So, therefore, if you're Emily, you convince Rick of that. You're like, "Look, there's no way that you would ever not play it on yourself, right? Therefore, play it on me." Like this is the only way that it works out. Otherwise, you'll be here like we need to get out Cirie. Like neither of neither of us can win against Cirie. I probably would have tried to push that angle. Well, then again, it's like Emily it depends on how self-interested you are, right? Is Emily clearly isn't that self-interested because she was actually at the end of day loyal to Rick and never didn't actually backstab him.

45:47 The question is would have Rick have bought that? Is he like Jonathan Penner where Jonathan Penner is famously self-interested, you know? Is Rick the same way? Has Rick in the past ever played an idol on someone else or tried to save I guess he was very loyal to David Wright and he was very loyal to Christian, but you know, Emily's not Christian. Emily's not David Wright. So, I don't know. I just feel like if I was Emily in the moment, I know that I would come off as a bit of a villain. Okay, I accept that. But like really throw Rick under the bus here just like just so I can last another day. I'm never going to win. But I don't know. Well, what was Emily's goal here? Was Emily's goal here to get to the end? >> She would have had Joe's vote in the end. She got there if she did that. Joe would have voted for Emily and been like, "Finally. Finally, my nemesis in this game, Rick Devens, has been voted out in this moment." >> It might actually be a good point.

46:38 It's like then all right, hey Joe, I voted off Rick just like you wanted. Let's final two, baby. >> [laughter] >> Get to the end. >> Yeah, Zudoman here says this round would have been way more interesting without the extra vote. There would have been some real actual things at stake here if the read from Aurora was wrong in that moment. I'm not a big fan of split splitting up the tribes in the merge. I've spoken about it ad nauseam on the podcast in the past and this one was a little bit different because of the power broker position and being able to go back and forth and make it a five and then kind of playing like this game of telephone between the two tribes that I thought made it interesting and I think there's room for strategy to evolve if they were ever to do this again in the future. Like, you know, will people now have actual code words that they'll try and get across to the other side to pass information on to their allies if they get split up with it.

47:29 How will the power broker like will the power broker lie about some of the things like just to try and get their vote across? Maybe say, "Hey, Andre told me it's all good. We can vote out his ride or die when Andre probably didn't tell me that." Like there's places for it to still evolve in the future, but the one big thing that I'm still worried about, Andre, is that we've now had like what? Three Tribal Councils that there hasn't been a normal vote. Like are we even watching Survivor at this stage? Like it feels like every single episode like we're not getting a proper vote out. Like there's just these strange twists every single episode. Is it a bit of overkill at this stage? >> Yeah, it is overkill. There needs to be some sort of like balance here and I would I would suggest that don't have the blood moon. Instead of the blood moon, have this twist. So, it was the final 17, was it? Or when was the merge? Final 15, final 17? I'm not sure. But basically have >> 14, I think or something. >> Well, there was an it was an odd number because Ozzy and went to the island.

48:23 Anyway, just say like final 16 or something or final 15. >> Yeah. >> One of them can be a power broker, then you split it up and you'd have you know, seven on one side, seven on the other side and the power broker goes to both. Don't have the blood room and don't have me split try like I think at that stage with instead of like this massive chaotic vote, have that twist. I think that's decent. That's okay. Then like vote somebody off when Kyle was medevac, right? That way you kind of keep the parity on like who gets sent when. Then we get a normal vote off at a final nine cuz I think final Is it final nine? Yeah, final nine is one of the most interesting votes of the season. Final nine, final seven, final five. Like you don't want to mess that up. So, just all I'm saying is just keep all these twists out of it. Like just we don't nine to nine to final three, we don't need any of this stuff.

49:14 Like we've got enough idols, we've got enough like immunity. Like we don't need it. Just do that earlier on. Make it a little bit interesting when there's too many people and then I'll be happy. I'll be fine. I think that's the balance we need. >> Yeah. I've always said it. I don't want the winner to have a legacy of drawing the right rock at the right time to be in the right combination to be able to get to the end and win the season. Like it's just not exciting to me, you know? It's too much luck and chance when it comes to that. We haven't spoken about the immunity challenge at all. this was an unprecedented immunity challenge with Tiffany winning in the first What you like she got it and everybody's excited for her. I'm thinking to myself sitting here, wow, like, you know, Tiffany was a nonentity in the beginning of the season, but suddenly she's coming out swinging, third immunity of the season, and she's starting to really ramp it up as we get to the end game here.

50:04 And then, Jeff basically saying, hold on, jumping on a boat, leaving, them on the pontoon there on his own to go down there check and see that Tiffany actually didn't lift her leg in time. how did you feel production sort of handled the situation? what was your thoughts on it? >> Well, I think he said it was unprecedented, but I think it is literally precedented. Survivor historians need to help us out here, but I want to say it's either Thailand, Amazon, or Pearl Islands. I forgot who I think it was Burton. And Burton had won a immunity challenge, and then they went back and they checked the tapes. The exact same thing happened, and they're like, oh, sorry, but I think it was Burton, I want to say. But I still like kind of remember it might have been Amazon or something like that. but I actually kind of like that. I like to see the sausage being made sometimes. I and I like obviously they had to do that.

50:54 They couldn't they couldn't have edited around it. it's a TV show. We know it's a TV show. The immersion this is not Borneo. This the immersion has dropped. Let's like, I'm happy to see that. And the fact that we saw like Tiffany sort of like have her foot on it while everybody was jumping off. I don't know what like why did even Jeff say, are you okay with that, Steph, Tiffany? Like, she doesn't need to be okay. Sorry to say. >> [laughter] >> I think he asked her because obviously he got to go and watch the tape, but she didn't get to watch the tape. So, in her mind she might have been like, yeah, I did lift it in time, and maybe could have felt at that moment that there was shenanigans. Yeah, but she I think as soon as they as soon as they said, we got to go check something, I rewatched that part of the episode, and you can see her head dropping immediately. I think she knew.

51:45 I think she knew she was late doing Like don't think she did it on purpose to try and cheat or anything, but I think and like you know like sometimes when you just doze off and you're looking blankly in front of you and you're thinking about something. She probably had one of those moments where she just dozed off and then as the challenge was going on and people were like floundering in front of her, she probably realized, "Oh damn, I've got to lift my foot." And she lifted it. So I think there was a part of her who knew that she was late in doing it and which is why she accepted it and she was probably just gutted in that moment that she lost it based on a technicality here and something that is so simple. But it again shows you how you like I said, this is this is a real show. This is a human show and I personally love the fact that production wasn't afraid to step in, make the call, ensure that the show is accurate. Like we watch like I watch another show called The Challenge which I'm a big fan of as well. Sometimes the production on that show leaves things up to interpretation and fans debate it afterwards. >> is the same way.

52:36 >> Yeah. Yeah, and people are like, "Oh, that was clearly not fair. X, Y, and Z has happened." I like that Survivor actually puts it bed to it right there and there. Like they're not afraid to break >> the what is it called? The fourth wall or the immersion. >> The immersion. They'll bring you into the show and say, "Hey, we need to make a decision here." And I think that more shows can learn from that. I like the transparency in that moment and for Jeff to just step in. if this was the challenge, Tiffany would have won. Exactly, that's my point. They would have been like, "Nah, it's all good." And then people would have been like, "Oh, so you >> If you're Tiffany, do you do you rat yourself out? Do you be like, "Hey, you know, I actually, guys, have a look at the tape." Or do you just say nothing and just like, "I know that I didn't win." >> Yeah. >> You say nothing. You have >> I don't regret Tiffany, yeah. >> But I want to ask you like if Tiffany won this, do you think that we would have seen a very different episode? Like I mean, Tiffany's pretty close with Cirie from what I can tell.

53:29 I feel like Cirie would have been able to talk to her a bit more openly and to say, "Hey, this is not the time to go after Ozzy. Let's try and change things here." Or something. Like I think we would have seen a very >> It 100% changes it, yeah. Because >> Sorry. >> So, do you reckon it's Aubry? Aubry's probably the person who goes home in that instance almost. >> Does that would Tiffany want to get out Aubry is a question. >> Well, Tiffany's close with Joe. So, wouldn't go for Joe. And then Rizo I mean Rizo could have been up for the boot. Yeah, Rizo's got an idol. So, I feel like it would have been Jonathan. They could have gone for Jonathan in this case. >> Well, the question is where would have Jonathan been? which Tribal Council would he been on? Cuz if Jonathan's with Joe and you know, by extension, you know, it probably is Aubry, right? At that stage because but I don't know, but Jonathan would want Aubry in.

54:23 So, it's kind of it's hard to say. I think it's kind of like the what would have happened is if Tiffany won, then the order of who was on each of the tribes would be completely different, right? Because of the butterfly effect. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But, if Jonathan wasn't Tiffany's spot, I think interesting one here. Well, if Jonathan wasn't Tiffany's spot, I think Emily possibly would have still been too appetizing to go after like you know, for breakfast. >> Yeah, I think it would be an Emily and Aubry in my opinion. I think that sort of kind of with Jonathan winning it kind of takes a little bit of power out of Cirie's hands in the fact that they were all split up as well. Takes which is really great that Cirie got most of what she wanted either way. That's how good she is that she needs to literally have her ride or dies on the other tribe and have somebody with unprecedented amount of power not her enemy, but somebody she's not closely aligned with.

55:20 That says something about how Cirie's playing. >> I can tell Lexar is a really big fan of Ozzy saying here, "Don't make me cry guys. Ozzy would have been safe if Tiffany had won and I can't deal with that." I don't know if you heard this Lexar, but Ozzy is not retired from Survivor. He is open to coming back and playing the game again and he said that he wants to play Australian Survivor Andre. He wants to play the full fledged Yeah, no he didn't he said he doesn't want to play Australia versus the world. He wants to play the proper Australian season the full fledged 40 something days season. He doesn't want to play anything that's shorter than that. Yeah and he apparently has a sister who lives in Australia. So blood is thicker than water. Season two or three in Australia I forgot like has there been another one like that? The second season like get Ozzy and his sister on Australian Survivor. We might see the jungle man I'm going to say jungle boy the jungle man return to play the game again.

56:13 >> I Malaysia the next one's in Malaysia you never know. They're doing they're doing casting right now. Maybe that could be a clue who knows. >> Yeah Jacko's saying Australia versus the world was fire. Yeah it was great. The only thing for me is I would have loved to have seen Yeah exactly. That's the only criticism I have. I just don't like these shortened versions of the game. I just feel like it doesn't allow for lots and lots of strategizing and for things like you know the best things in life like when you when you when you cooking a good steak Andre you got to let it marinate you know like it's important and I feel like it's the same with Survivor. It's >> I feel like I feel like they wanted to they wanted a really good task and then for in order for them to get a good task they needed to make it shorter but my point is get people that are kind of on the edge that you know that want to really want to play a game that would be willing to spend 40 days out there. but they don't necessarily need to be like they don't you don't need to see Tony in poverty.

57:07 I wouldn't mind just seeing like a Johnny Fairplay because I know Johnny Fairplay would want to play it right? Just like these random cast of characters and do like America versus Australia or something like that. I love that. >> so I believe that George the next season they were going to do two seasons a year and they've now gone to I believe one a year again. So there was like my understanding there was rumors out there Andre from what I heard that the second season would have been a world but Australia versus world season 2 that they were thinking about but they put a hold on that to do another season in the normal time slot. So we'll see next year we'll see another season coming and they'll probably but then again wouldn't they normally start filming around this time like I feel like they always go filming around June July actually. >> I feel like it's changed I think production is like I don't know if you see it you saw it at the end but I feel like production has changed quite a bit like the editing is completely different David's obviously different I'm sure David is bank rolling a little bit of it as well.

58:03 But I like they did do public announcement now it's going to be in Malaysia it's going to be a brand new season but I also heard that they were going to cut the amount of days or something or cut the cost or cut the length of the season or the amount of episodes. so I don't know what the hell's going on there but it should be pretty interesting. >> Yeah bloody money saying that the next season will be in his home country of Malaysia so it's very exciting I like the fact that they're going somewhere new Andre like we need to get that with some of the other OG like I'd love to see a season that's not in Fiji like let's go let's go somewhere else let's go Samoa let's go you know back to the Outback >> I really wanted them to do like the wild American West season just put them out into some like you know you know Africa flashbacks where it's like the wild west that would have been like such a change of change of scenery right?

58:53 >> Yeah and just cut people from like the East Coast and the West Coast and it's like East versus West or like it's a it's a rivalry like sometimes you have to have these like cheesy sort of themes to seasons to get people to care >> Yeah do a political theme that will that will that will >> I wasn't I wasn't going to go down that path Andre I wasn't [laughter] I feel like Survivor doesn't want to get into controversy at this point like I feel like that's not the angle that Survivor CBS will take >> This is not cook islands >> [laughter] >> We do need to we do need to talk about the like I've been stalling it because I'm not looking forward to bringing up the results for the draft, but let me just get that set up so we can sort of wrap things up in a in a in a good way here for some of us, definitely not for me or for you at the moment because we've lost some people. I didn't end up losing my Jungle Boy or Jungle Man, Ozzy.

59:47 And then on the TNT community we have lost Emily as well. I should probably change that around. So in my tribe at the moment is Joe, who I've got zero faith in, but he's still there and he could still win me some immunity challenges. Like he's not bad at those things. I've got Aubry, which to be honest I'm actually kind of like if Cirie's out like I'll be with Lexa. I'll you know, I'll shove for Cirie to win this season or like a Rick Devens. I feel like those are probably two of the wins that would be very satisfying to see as a viewer. but I do think Aubry winning could be quite poetic because she was the last person drafted in this draft and it doesn't happen very often that you draft someone or you know, someone falls to you and they win the show outright. and yeah, like we've got we've got TNT community in a very solid place. They've got four players left.

1:00:37 How you feeling about the draft? Obviously you're one person still there remaining and sort of doing a good job at it. >> Well, I mean what like my point was that I don't have much to lose right now. Like any TNT community has potentially four people to lose. That's like 20 points right there that they could lose. So I don't mind. I'm not going to win. I'm not deluded. I'm like Emily. I'm not deluded. but I mean my heart says Rick is going to win, but my head says that Aubry's going to win. sorry, but I just I just don't I don't see Cirie winning. even though I want her to win. She's playing too good of a game not to win, but you know, it is 50/50, sir. >> If we do if we do a top three right now, like you'd say you'd still put Cirie in there just if she made it to the finals, she probably still could win this game and should win this game.

1:01:33 And then I'd put Rick Devens in the in the conversation as someone that's But I just I'm very fearful for Rick Devens in this next So like I feel like he's the obvious target in the next Well, it's either him or Cirie like going to be the obvious target for the next episode. And then Aubry, I'm going to put her in there. Like Jonathan could like I could change Rick Devens and Jonathan at this stage. Like I think either one of those two in there. but I just I feel like Jonathan's story is one of doing a lot but not necessarily getting the respect at the end. >> Yeah. Yeah, Jonathan Rizo won't get any respect. Joe is never going to win. Dev is never going to win. So really Yeah, that's why I say it's either Cirie, Rick, or Aubry. I don't know. I don't know. I think Honestly, edit-wise, I If edit-wise, I don't think Rick's going to win. If it's game theory-wise, I don't see Cirie winning just because game theory every it's every Of course Cirie's going to make it this far cuz everybody knows they can get rid of her, you know.

1:02:32 She's the ultimate threat at the at final immunity challenge. So that leaves Aubry. so I don't know what to make of that. I It wouldn't be my favorite ending, to be 100% honest, but you know, I'll accept If she can play good like sort of like final half of the game, I'll be happy. I think it'll be a long time coming for her at least. Yeah. >> That's my thoughts as well. And Okay, so let's look at the points here. you did move forward this week with four points. Devens have been delivering for you in the last two episodes. The previous episode just from sort of doing a recap on the previous episode, Devens got you seven points in the previous episode. this episode he got you four points, right? So he got one point for surviving and then one for playing the idol. Three points there, so four points all up. That moves you up to 56 points, okay? Then for TNT community, TNT community this episode had eight points in total.

1:03:26 They had Cirie, Tiffany, Jonathan, and Rizo all survive to get them a point. They had Emily voted out for minus five, but then Jonathan I did give the immunity win to, so that's three points for Jonathan as well as I put making a big move on both Jonathan and Cirie cuz I do think they both deserve points this episode. Jonathan putting the vote on Ozzy and then the likes of Cirie playing her extra vote. Actually, she should have also gotten one for playing her So, they will get more points actually. she played an advantage as well. So, big move in playing the advantage and getting the points in playing the advantage and ultimately that's the downfall for Emily because Emily tried to outplay her, but she didn't fall for her in this moment. So, all up actually now 11 points for TNT community putting them at a total of 113 points at this stage in the game, which is really solid.

1:04:18 Then obviously from my end it became really tough this episode. Joe got me a point. Aubry got me a point. Ozzy ended up getting voted out, so that was minus five points. But then I did get three points for Aubry also making a big move and talking to Rizo and letting Rizo in on Ozzy's plan to go to the end with Cirie and also giving away credible game information that was still active in the game, which ultimately made Rizo not save Ozzy in this moment. So, all up zero points for me this week. It kind of cancels everything out with the minus five and I'm on 111 points. So, for the first time ever, TNT community is leading the draft here this season. 113 to 111. It is still very close. There's two points between us, but anything is possible getting into the end game here because, you know, with it being so close it's going to be winning. Yeah.

1:05:08 Well, it's going to be Yeah, I guess you're a spectator at this stage, but between you community and you can still influence. Like I'll tell you what you can do. You're the kingmaker actually this season, right? Because >> the power broker. >> [laughter] >> You're the power broker because if you end up getting to the end with Devens and if Devens wins, you could still take that 20 or 30 points that, you know, for final tribal councils, for the wins. You take it away from either one of us, which ultimately could have an effect on who's going to win the season. So, even though you're not winning it, you could still have an impact on who wins it at the end. You're the jury. You're the first jury member. >> Yeah, exactly. And I take like a soft win for you. If I if I'm able to get the winner, I'll be happy. I might not have won the draft, but I got the winner, so. >> [laughter] >> that's it. Is there anything else that we needed to talk about that you feel like we didn't bring up in this episode? >> the only thing we didn't really bring up was everybody eye-rolling at Joe at the start of the episode of how Joe was like super hypercritical.

1:06:06 Like it's just ridiculous. He's like, "No, I was happy with the way that I handled it." And I'm like, "Okay, Joe, whatever you say." >> Yeah, it's like what did she say? You're you live on Like Cirie played this show. This is what why Cirie's like one of the legends, right? Because Cirie's played this show or any kind of reality shows now for what? Two decades. And she still finds creative and new ways to talk to the camera, right? When she's saying like, "You know, Joe lives up on 400 Hypocrisy Hill or something like that." It was so funny when she when she said that, you know. I've just been loving Cirie and you know, the season it's kind of bittersweet that we coming close to the end now because very soon we won't see these players on our screens anymore. And I really do hope that if some of these players don't make it, we do get to see them back out there again. Like I don't know. Like Cirie, can we get her like what would it be? Number six fifth or sixth time coming out to play the game?

1:06:57 Like I'm here for >> Do you really need to see Cirie? I mean, yes, we do need to see Cirie again. But do we really >> one. Season 60, come on, Andre. Season 60 he along, you know, gets Cirie gets Cirie out there. >> Jeff final season, you should bring back the bring back the great. Bring back Cirie, you know. Yeah, I think the only time I probably want to see her again is maybe like a legend season. That's probably I don't think I don't I don't I just feel like we'll watch another season of Cirie and it'll just be her running the game again. It's like, okay, well, we've seen this before. >> Yeah, that's true. That's true. And then just falling short again. So, yeah, but it's been a great It's been a great episode. I think we had some great rounds here back and forth. Thank you so much for the audience jumping in and asking great questions throughout. we will be back next week to talk about the next episode.

1:07:50 I think we're getting close to the end now, Andre. How many episodes until the end? It's like 13 episodes for the season? >> I saw a comment saying that the final the finale was on the 11th or something. >> 20th. >> Sorry, not the 11th. Sorry, the Yeah, 20th, yeah. Okay, so what? That's two more two more episodes. >> Two more episodes plus two to cover here on the channel. It's It feels like not that long ago that we started doing this, Andre. Like I've been having a lot of fun talking to you and being able to share with the community, you know, my thoughts on the episodes here as well. It's been exciting. Like I think one thing I'd love to do at the end of the season like as a little bonus, we should definitely talk about the legacy of the players and who are most likely to Like who do we want to see come back and who don't we think will come back and where do people sort of end up by the end of the season? I think we can do like a little bonus. Yeah, we do like a little bonus one at the end of the season, but that will be after the whole season is concluded. Thank you so much for everybody jumping in.

1:08:40 We had a record amount of people watching it on X and YouTube for this season. I think we had about 40 people watching it for most of it. So, thank you for everybody watching it live. for those that are watching it later, please consider subscribing to the channel. Let us know if you like this content and if you'd like to see more in the future. but for now, grab your torches, head back to camp. We'll catch you guys next time. Bye. >> Bye.