Survivor Game Changers Review

0:01 And we are back with day 34 of Survivor 46 and 46 Sarah just won game changers in one of my favorite wins of all time and I do want to touch on that because a lot of this is going to be talking about that and this perception this misconception of bitter jewes because this is probably the most bitter jury that we've had in a while and they still voted for Sarah so I do want to talk about that as it relates to her as well as how it relates to other Allstar type casts or whatever this was today we are joined Once Again by Carrie and Kyle of zp and just going right into it first experience with the season and how it's changed throughout the years both of yall can go so I watched game changers for the first time during the pandemic and it was my first season to come back to so you know I watched Survivor when I was growing up with my family and then I went away to college stopped watching Survivor everyone does the same thing so the last season I watched live was Fabio season and so when the pandemic started I was like I need to find something to do and Game Changers was the most recent season Hulu had

1:21 And so I didn't really know where to start because I was like okay I've seen a lot of the older Seasons so I just started with like the last season they had on Hulu and it was Game Changers and it was like I said it was my first season coming back from like Fabio season and I don't know it was really like kind of magical for me because I had never seen Survivor played that way like it was kind of like not like old school what I had seen But like middle school or something like that like I had never seen so many like advantages and twists and blindsides and things like that and so for me watching game changers for the first time I was like what is this like I haven't seen Survivor like this ever this is crazy and so I really I like game changers I know it's like when I started telling people that they were like whoa hot take but it's I find it to be a really entertaining season and I like it although I haven't seen it now for probably about three years but it's a good one I like it K first time watching it did you I guess I what I can go with VI with this is when the cast was announced oh that's did you get it did you understand some of some of these choices no and no

2:42 If there was ever a season where it ended the debate of like does the cast come first or does the theme come first the cast definitely came first this just felt like a season where they got people who they just got everyone that they wanted for a while and just said what could we call this so but despite that I do think that we get a lot of interesting gameplay I think Sarah watching her from her first season come in through this season was so much fun to watch and to watch her grow and some other players regress which we can perhaps touch on along the way very interesting to see all these players legacies kind of fluctuate throughout the season yeah and muy just joined us so hey mcky going everyone it's going all right you're just in the nick of time I was ready to ask I was I was asking everyone what their first experience was with the season and what they thought about the cast overall go like right before they played just what did you think when you saw the game changers cast did you think that it was gamechanging Oh I thought it was gamechanging to its C like wow game changers oh my

4:02 Gosh no so game changers fun fact was my very first season of Survivor American Survivor the Aussie Blindside was randomly on TV and I was like why the hell are they voting off this guy who just caught them a large fish it just didn't make sense right and so when I watched season from beginning I was like oh this is actually really cool really fun but only later on when I started watching other American Seasons I was like oh Malcolm got done so dirty oh SAR and Tony wow I thought they were just like nobodies but now they're like legendary characters like oh my gosh right so yeah Survivor game changers has got a very special place in my heart because it was my first big well my first American season of all time and every time I rewatch it I just appreciate a lot like the joint tribal twist I will defend that to the day I die I love we'll get to that because I actually do I actually like I do like that aspect of it of the Season for me like I it's you know the running gag is that this is just a brand steel version of an All-Star season and yes at face value it absolutely looks like that I would say and I think Kyle brought this up already there are some players that you know were not the biggest

5:22 Names coming to this into this season that you know exceeded whatever expectations fans and other players probably had Sierra Don Thomas being probably well Sierra and Sarah I would say being the top only because Sierra and I didn't realize it until this time around watching everyone is saying that Sierra is running that Alliance like it's not just what we're being shown the perception is sier it's Sierra and that Co pepper and Troy xan are like her lap dogs basically and I do you know I've always wondered why Sierra voted for Cole Pepper over Sarah I used to think it was just cuz she was bitter but like it honestly could just be because they were a tighter group and that would make sense but Sarah obviously is the person that like really came back and changed up her game a to the point where like I mentioned at the beginning the jury was so pissed off with her over when you know her saying I made aund like all my genuine relationships I made with you people were real and crazy ass Debbie's laughing at her I felt horrible for her in that situation so Kyle going back to you Sarah 2.0 what did you like what did you not like

6:42 I really liked the Cutthroat this I liked her sort of creativity especially with the Legacy Advantage move her willingness and I guess the skill to pull off flipping back and forth which is something that obviously everybody tries to do and a lot don't and she was never really brought up as a Target because of that both sides needed her loyalty and that is super difficult to pull off and make it to the end and win still so just the skill at which she was able to pull off these moves was what I most enjoyed watching her M this is your first American Survivor season so watching Sarah navigate this season with probably no besides The aie Blind Side really no knowledge of how the American Game Works were you impressed with what you were seeing from her or you know did you did you have more negative views on what she was doing in the game yeah so like At first my first time rewatching because you know I was only a innocent 15 like you know 16 year old I was like wow you're strategizing what a horrible monster you get what I mean I was much more like

8:03 The co be like yeah go coold pepper whoa you know but definitely the more I rewatch The More I appreciate s game and I think even though everyone kind of likes to make fun of the game changers cast I do think a lot of people like Sarah who really didn't have a legacy before created a legacy for herself now right where she is one of the best female winners of all time definitely one of the most Cutthroat players of all time as well she really came back not only changed the game of throughout the season but she also changed how she played the game and her Legacy as a character as well and so the more I rewatch The More I appreciate her game but definitely the first couple times I watched I was like wow what a what an absolute ass like no I get that and Carrie you also said that I think you said that Nicaragua the last season you watched before you got to game changers years later so you wouldn't have even seen Sarah 1.0 at that point as well for you know what you mentioned how you loved how the game had changed since the last time you had watched the show were you looking at Sarah as a person that fit into that game changers archetype this season

9:23 Or were or did you kind of underestimate her until a certain point in the season I remember so I remember the first time watching it I remember being really impressed with her the whole time like I had no idea who she was I really don't think I knew who I don't even think I knew who Azie was at that point but I remember that I was impressed with Sarah when I watched her and I was like I don't know who this person is but she's pretty cool and she's doing a lot of stuff and I actually I just watched Tony's season k on and it's interesting like with Sarah's flipping back and forth between alliances it's kind of similar to you know like Tony's flipping back and forth between alliances not to go like you know to that season but it's interesting you know since they had played together and that's I'm wondering like if his playing style influenced her in Game Changers want to point this out this is my favorite version of Azie because we don't get much of him and he's less pretentious until final tribal where he becomes pretentious Azie again so that's my Azie reference for today we I'm probably not going to bring up Azie again for any reason tonight Sarah I do agree with you that you know that she

10:43 She did kind of do the whole flip-flop thing and I think that what made this win for me this win is better than Tony's win and Kagan because he W because she wasn't neurotic about it because she was able to not antagonize people to their faces she was everyone felt that she was their best friend and that's why that jury and it I mean you want to talk about correlations that jury was pissed off at Tony too and Kagan and they still voted for him so here these jurries they are upset with her because they felt like they use she used real life things to connect with them and she did and I feel like that was real it's just she also had to cut you because not everyone can set the final three I and I will say about Sarah this is another and a long line of Survivor doesn't know how to edit social winners because I do feel like you know if a lot of the things that she was doing a lot of the things that Zeke was saying that she was doing are not really shown we start getting glimpses of it halfway through the merge but I think overall yes Sarah is one of the greatest gender not even not included one of the greatest winners that we've had and I think that one of those reasons is because she is able to combine that social strategic

12:03 Aspect of the game and use it to her benefit and she kind of and we're going to talk about I want to talk about her winners at War thing in a little bit but I really love Sarah this season if we move down we go to co pepper I think that Cole Pepper is a very underappreciated finalist I think the co pepper did a very like play yeah I think Co pepper played a very good game this season I think that where he his issue was is that he was very antagonistic to the wrong people and people Optics wise saw that he was basically bullying Tai going in reverse order Carrie what did you think of brat Co pepper this time around I think I remember so i' I've never been one person who like cares a whole lot about like who immunity and so like I remember like not being like too impressed with his like physical game I remember being like okay whatever he keeps winning like so what but like he seemed just like a I don't know I don't really like men I don't like men you know I don't know oh okay so to the to the rest of the men on the

13:23 On the panel here tonight U Kyle I won't say he's underappreciated not underrated I'm not I made sure I made sure I clarified because I do you think there is Merit to this game outside of the five immunity wins yeah I do in fact coming into the season Brad was my one of my least favorite players ever because I had this misconception in blood versus water will you go back and watch that season he's actually not that bad but he's not that the reputation that he had makes you think so coming into the season wasn't excited but when he votes out Caleb to get rid of that connection for Tai that was when I was like this guy he's actually he's got a mind for the game like that was very impressive from someone who I had no expectation for I thought the first time he was really like he played a really good game on a rewatch it's just fine I think like he kind of it just declines as it goes along but I agree underappreciated especially for someone like a Prem merger like him I think that he earned he earned the runner up not just because he wasn't a big Target

14:44 Coming in and same with Sarah they both earned their spots yeah rather than just they made it through because they weren't threats coming into the game Mony you agreed with me you yeah I think Brad cop was a strategic Mastermind this season and let me tell you why right let me tell you why so Brad is an alpha male right and so he kind of needs less Alpha the game in order for him to win immunities which is exactly what happens he gets rid of Malcolm he knew that JT would fumble something up so then JT would be fed up next strategic Mastermind I'm telling you I'm telling you and then at the merch they got rid of Aussie right who's there left to win immunities bra freaking Co pepper all right and so he keeps on winning amenities and even though Evan looked heavily down on his social G with Tai I thought it was genius like how did one guy who's on the bottom with no social capital Strongarm this dude to play two Idols you know what I'll concede my time that maybe he's not so bad you need to speak for Brad C

16:04 Like he needed you out there to speak for him because Aussie and Debbie weren't doing him any favors with them oh we're gonna Champion you one worst jurors probably Debbie sucks Debbie's just the worst but yeah so okay I'm not gonna go the Mony route even though he is right basically on everything he just said for me I do agree though like there are a lot of situations this season where Brad is not he's not portrayed as dumb like he understands what's going on he understands when he's on the bottom and he understands that hey at certain points I might have to turn on like the round that oh man I think it was like the Zeke Vote or whatever and him sier and troyan voted for Tai because they thought that they were like they were gonna have to implode it might have been the Z vote might have been somebody else but he ALS like he understood hey I have to vote how people tell me sometimes to keep my spot in the game so I can find my way back and he did find his way back because Sierra gets taken out and they could have just been boom but because and this is the big problem for me with this season and we're I'm gonna on the season in the second but I want to give it its props the I feel like people just feel felt obligated to crazy

17:25 For the sake of doing crazy this season and I think that works to Brad's benefit and also works to troyan's benefit we'll briefly we'll briefly touch on troyan I so I like Troy xan in one world here obviously you know we don't get much of him but my favorite troyan moment this season is honestly his concession speech is basically what it is at the end where he just kind of says hey I can read the room I know that I'm G to lose I appreciate you guys giving me this time to do this you know be invited back for an All-Star season and this that and the other I that really for some reason that really got me this time I really appreciated tryan saying that go ahead oh I was because correct me if I was wrong this season was the first season where it wasn't like individual questions right it was like the first like group one yeah I think like I mean probably a problem with the group one against the individual ones where if it's individual people can really get that heart to heart if that's sort of Mak sense with players right like Sarah you broke my trust you destroyed me Brad yeah you're kind of a douche but Troy

18:45 I actually like really liked him stuff and I think it was like individual maybe people would have had more respect for Troy xan's game but I think just because it was a group thing and it was as a group talk about this as a group talk about I think because of that the focus then shifted to okay well Brad was clearly the physical Sarah was definitely the Strategic and the social but troan just didn't really fit in either of those categories yeah he I think he over overcorrected from one world where in one world he was very like loud and in yourface and it didn't work for him and so this season he comes in and he really tries to play under the radar which is a good strategy but he was he was playing a beta in a room full of alphas and that was that just wasn't goingon to win the game in this season no and I agree and we have this hold on we have the comment here I hate that Troy laid down and died I don't think he laid down and died I think at that point he like when they finally did ask him a question he's he even says like oh man you guys are asking me a question I think he could read the room see hey I'm probably going to lose like I'm definitely going to lose here there's nothing that Troy can say during that

20:05 Final tribal that would have made anyone vote for him unless he said you know and actually had someone back him up that he was actually manipulating the other two the entire time which he wasn't and I don't think he would have said that so I don't I don't think that it was L I think it was just like I said it was a concession speech just okay I lost you know thank you and moving on oh shoot lost my train oh okay so we're gonna we're going to work our Bay back to the beginning now we the big problem with the season that I have is and I we started to get it in Millennial versus Gen X and it came right into this season of big moves for the sake of making big moves because and especially because we're playing I didn't realize how many times they said game Cher or changing the game this season until this time around and I could have turn turned into a drinking game and I didn't but I just felt like everyone just felt handcuffed to this we have to make big moves all season and every just like in LS Gen X every single person that made a flashy Big Move got their ass sent out every single time so what did you all think of the overall game play

21:25 This season talk just focusing on you focus on one specific thing if it makes it easier but I'll car I'll start with you what did you think of the gameplay overall this season am I am I muted I just switched mic no you're muted you're good okay perfect so I thought it was I mean I thought it was entertaining and flashy and I really liked it like there was so much about the season that I really liked and like I didn't even know that like Survivor could be played that way but I so like for example I really enjoyed like the Legacy Advantage I thought that was so fun I thought that like when Sarah Lina was able to get the Legacy Advantage from Sierra I was like I had never imagined that anyone could do something like that like I don't know so I thought that like the gameplay throughout the season was super cool and interesting okay and Kyle going off of that pre merge we lose a lot of the game changers we lose them early and it's and watching it this time I had a lot of Allstars in my head where in All Star they get rid of the actual All Stars first and we end up most of the allst Stars first and we end up with a lot of group that were kind of Fringe

22:45 Allstars at that point in history and we end up getting more Legends you know because of it because they were able to establish themselves that time and I felt like that was the case with this season where because lose Tony Sierra oh not Sierra God did I just say that Tony Sandra Malcolm folks JT we lose them pre merge it gives everyone space to make their own legacies at the merge but what did you think of that pre merge of you know us losing all of these characters it's disappointing of course you know you have these people back you want to see them for as long as possible but it didn't come as a surprise I think if it came as a surprise you know you were probably kidding yourself going into the season it was unfortunate how close Sandra like got to the merge and like how good of a spot she was inconsistently throughout the first swap in the original tribe so that's when it hurts the most is when they're actually playing well and they have a chance and then they kind of get like swap screwed so it was disappointing but not a not a surprise Mary yeah look it's one of those things

24:06 Right it's like imagine if everyone who went up pre merge made it to merge how much of a different season it is and everyone would love the season right like it's just an unfortunate things that happens in All Stars the bigger reputation you have the more likely you're going to get targeted like someone says here that Tony and JT play horrible Sandra was Queen I think with Tony he realized he was screwed with only like three winners and stuff like that obious he's got him and S got the biggest reputations as winners as well especially Tony coming right out of kagam and so I think Tony's like you know what I might as well just go nuts and just see how far I can get right and so yeah I think there were some certain players who are like you're not I'm probably screwed in this situation I think the joint tribal twist unfortunately because I adore Malcolm was set up for someone who would make the merge like a Malcolm like a gold pepper to go out in that spot if that makes sense yeah no it makes perfect sense and I do agree yeah well and up to this point we've had four outright Allstar Seasons like correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've only had four Allstars her villains Second Chances and Game Changers and I compare you know you look at heres versus

25:26 Villains where the big characters actually do survive it's almost the inverse where the people that are the FRS players are the ones that go out pre- merge with a few exceptions obviously because you have to have ex exceptions in there but a lot of the big names are the ones that make the merge and I think that's what why people put that season on such a pedestal because it's the people that us as fans want to see move on when like in reality all stars and game changers establishes new stars because of the fact that we because of the fact that we got rid of the old guard and we introduced these are the people that are going to be running this and yes I understand that it leads to some bad television that time around but like people were excited to see Sarah back for winners at War like I feel if Andre belky came back another time I wouldn't hate it would be four times so like it might be a lot but like I wouldn't hate it because I think she if Zeke came back or Michaela came back I think because you know they got more spring screen time this time around I really enjoyed a lot of them pre merge for me it just became it's very similar to the MOs versus Gen X thing where like they just kept kind of hammering their heads oh it's Millennial versus Gen X it's like no we're game changers

26:47 We're we got invited back here for a reason because we changed the game and we're going to change the game even more and the prime example of that is Zeke who you know I gave Zeke all the props yesterday despite the fact that I think that it's very silly to make crazy moves every single time I feel like Zeke this season he kind of fell into that trap again where once they hit the merge he's immediately clocked as a threat and it's you're just kind of waiting for the inevitable to happen of him getting taken out because he has established himself as this person that's willing to make these crazy moves and I think that you know going to talk about the merge aspect of everyone's game in a second but do you feel like you know pre-merge Wise and either one of you can answer this pre merge wise this is hard I'm really hot pre merge wise do you feel like people could have taken more of a back like because even Sandra is guns of Blazing this season and I think that's what ultimately cost her do you think that people just kind of felt pigeon hold I guess is what the word I'm trying to use pigeon hold into this is game changers which means I'm now obligated to do everything crazy Carrie

28:07 Will start with you yeah I mean okay so rewatching Tony's season so I had never thought too much about people overplaying until I rewatched Tony season then I was like what is he doing just like stop you're doing too much and it kind of makes sense that like that's something similar that we're seeing in Game Changers and I think it's also what you were saying on a previous podcast about when people take the theme of the show and make it their entire personality like you don't have to you can just be normal stop M because I know you have to go do you feel like do you feel like the cast was felt pigeonholed this time around into fully embracing the theme of Game Changer yeah I personally think so like sometimes you got to have your Heavy Hitters and like your Average Joe's right and I think we did have our Heavy Hitters the only issue is that you know Your Average Joe's kind of just outnumbered them right very similar to winners at War how there was much more new school players and old schools of course old school going to be taken out first right so yeah I personally love the cast I think it's a great cast and yeah I think they did the best of with what they had with what they had I do agree with you on that but Mony I know you

29:27 Have to go thank you so much for even stopping in to do this all good man all good yeah I know there was comment earlier saying oh new background this is just my work background guys don't worry I don't live in like you know a shoe box but quick plug Traders New Zealand season 2 is coming out on Monday and I will be back with multiple friends to recap the episodes every Wednesday night 8:00 pm New Zealand time so I'll catch all then and I think I'm on for Edge Of Extinction right yes yeah awesome all right I'll see you guys on the see you later man yeah all right have a good later we're g to go to this question do you think Troy xan was bound to have a flat edit on a second appearance or do you think he had he been on Cambodia he would have been as flash as was in one world that's actually a pretty good question for me I think that troyan and we get this really early on in the game where troen is I think during the first swap he's in a very bad spot and he finds the idol and you know he eventually bounces back and he gets back with Brad but I think from there he feels so comfortable with his crew that he doesn't feel the need to and he says that at final travel I don't feel the need to do anything because I have my people

30:47 Kyle do you just answering this question this it's on yeah I honestly think it would have been about the same and I hate to say it because I really like Troy Zam but I just think on a return as I said before you know he clearly didn't like the way he played the first time because he just played the complete opposite and I think actually in Cambodia it would have been even worse I guess for L of a better word than it was here because we talked so much about how the cast was half or not even half Legends and then half who are these people so I think yeah if he was gonna stand out on an All-Star season this was his opportunity I think so on Cambodia I think he would have been buried even more with that cast so yeah hurts to say but no I think it would have been about the same Karen what did you think what did you think about Troy xan you're muted I think you might be muted or maybe you just your mic's not working you're muted on screen my browser is lost connected yeah okay you're

32:07 Good you're muted again oh my gosh okay now I can hear you again go ahead I am so sorry I'm having so many problems tonight I'm not normally like this okay so I had watched these out of order right so I watched game changers and then I went back and watched like whatever other season troyan was in and previously and I remember being like is this the same person like really like where is this person that like we saw in this previous season and why wasn't he in Game Changers because like and he lasted I mean the entire time in Game Changers and we just like didn't see it yeah and it sucks because you know watching One World what like last week at this point maybe week and a half ago troyan I think I said was like the third or fourth best player on the season strategic wise and he had a lot of great perceptions of what was going on in the game I just kind of think that he ran into it's very similar to like they're not the same type of player but does everyone just stick with me on this comparison it's very similar to Rob cesternino and Allstars where like he old tricks don't work the same when you're playing against people that have done the game before and I feel like

33:27 You saw that with Rob and Allstar and I feel like here I think troyan just realized you know unless I do something crazy I'm probably just going to be it's just going to be me and Brad and whoever they perceive as being the more in charge they're going to give it to them as far as second place JT so I sat here 14 days ago and I said that JT's move in Heroes versus Villains I understood because he had never seen Russell season and you know perception is parv just won this way in Micronesia which means Optics would say that they're voting out all the men and I get it I think it's a dumb move but I don't think it's the worst move of all time because of context JT this season is it's almost like a shell of what he was it's just he's just comes off as a goof the entire season Kyle JT 3.0 I we can finally put JT's story to bed in the worst way it's very it's very I like Sandra's story somehow went like this even though she doesn't win this time yeah JT just went like this and it was a

34:48 Very quick fall here yes it was and it was a shame because I was really excited to watch JT again and again he was he had an opportunity to make it further that's what hurts is that he had the idol this is arguably the worst instance that we've ever seen where somebody went home with an idle in their pocket I don't understand I mean there's no he knows he's catching boats he knows he's he knows it's a three to2 vote and he doesn't know which way it's gonna go it was just so bad and it's unfortunate because he played so well in token she that nowadays I don't think people remember at least newer fans won't know how amazing of a player he once was regarded as now they just go from perfect winner to I mean I feel like I said I feel like people refer to him as a Dun and her villains I will never refer to him as that because I do think that you know once again but here it's just it's bad like I can't defend anything he does this season and I know mck is gone but like we're going to talk about the joint Tribal Council because game changers it felt the need to introduce so many things in one season while

36:08 Also you know speed running a lot of episodes and you know doing a lot of double boot episodes there was a lot introducing a whole bunch of advantages I think the one like the one my favorite tribal of the season is the two tribe tribal because it is exciting it's different and it leads to a very shocking and surprising outcome car do you think that you know in modern day we're going to go forward for a second do you think that modern day Survivor could benefit for from a surprise like this where they do have two tribes go to a tribal you know just to test the waters I think modern day Survivor is doing too much and like it's kind of like the same thing like they're doing so much all the time and I feel like if they added in another like oh we're going to like have everyone go to tribel together like it's just it's too much it's just way too much like slow down okay that's fair and so Kyle going into the actual the actual tribal of it all like I said it's this is my favorite tribal of the Season what were your thoughts on this tribal as a whole keeping in mind that we were just on JT so I do want to hear how he played this tribal it was I was I was so conf conflicted on I've still

37:28 Conflicted on it and I was conflicted on it watching it I was like this is it is a little too much it but it the same time it was really a new thing and it was very exciting like the live tribal it JT getting up at a time that was unheard of right when this caram Moen and like maybe a few instances since caram moan but like really we had seen anything like that since caram moan no this was shocking and now nowadays if you watch this doesn't seem all that you know big it's kind of standard but at a time this was crazy like this was so entertaining and even the idle play is such an exciting move Los Malcolm pretty lady yeah that makes me laugh every time and then losing Malcolm is what makes this the conflicting part is that it was a guy who I had high hopes forego goinging into the season was primed to do very well and gets taken out very surprisingly no indication that Malcolm was going to be idled out in the Prem merge like who would have thought of that so yeah afterwards it was sort of like I remember the Specialists called this like a shortterm high but not a

38:48 Long ter it hurted in the long term yeah it did and losing Malcolm like that like yes we had just lost Tony we lost Miss big moves herself in the first tribal you know we're losing Malcolm here I think Caleb is gone by this point as well yeah that is not that he matters but we lose Malcolm here is who is a big character he would he is someone that you know I would say not necessarily Game Changer but like an Allstar in this time and so losing him yes it is fun in the moment but as the episode and like and especially two episodes from now it just everything's leading up to like the air just completely getting sucked out of the season and obviously the vote right before the merge just completely just sucks all the air out of the season for a long bit I the reason I like that tribal and the way that I like the reason I like that twist I guess is because they had already done a swap and at this point you really have to you know test where your loyalty is going to lie and Co pepper not no not Co guess Haley was on Co pepper side because it was a whole didn't consent which is amazing best Haley moment ever hey are you going to are you going to be with us you know Sandra Michaela

40:08 Being like Oh yeah what if one of them plays an idol and Sandra goes girl nobody over there as an idle and it just leads to and JT just once again just totally dropping the ball and they go back to camp and there's like and Sandra immediately this clock's like how they you out of everyone they played the adol and Sierra are you serious and the fact that he's still after that he still feels confident that they're going to vote out Michaela the next time they go to tribal even though Sandra has made it very apparent that she wants you gone because she feels like you screwed up at that at that previous tribal is just and I know that everyone likes to say oh yeah well he need he needs Steven and stepen needs him it's like well I feel like he needs Steven I don't feel like Steven needs him I just think that in second chances he was just focused on the wrong thing JT needs he has a lot of Big Ideas he needs someone to like hey you know I get it and it is it I think it does come with playing with house money of I've won so I can just kind of do whatever I want and I can still say I'm a winner but like you said unless you've watched token jeans which Carrie had you watched token Chans by the time you watch Game Changers no okay no I like

41:28 I hadn't watched it yet and at least I don't think if I had watched I didn't remember watching it and so like when people started talking about JT I was like what like this JT guy he's an idiot like what are you talking about and that is the negative side to his last two seasons but specifically his last season of he just he looks like a fool the entire time and it sucks because JT I mean JT never been like my favorite or anything but I did respect everything that you know I did respect JT and token Chans and I did respect JT and in here villain here just like you're he really dropped the ball other Prem merges we can re we can briefly touch on another they brought Caleb back and I think it was just like hey sorry for trying to kill you two seasons ago let's just see how far you make it he doesn't make it very far someone made it in comments about Tony and I agree I think that Tony understood he was probably not winning this season so he just decided to just go off and be crazy Tony for an episode because he gets vot in the because that's one of the First episodes that has a two boots Malcolm fine we get Sandra

42:49 And I remember reading an article years ago where they said that this season is basically Sandra fan fiction and I would say that I probably agree okay yes we've got Sandra who's won twice and everyone talking about Sandra this season is like how do you think she gets to the end because she does this everyone has a different reason for how Sandra gets to the end and it's so crazy to me that like there is no real consensus on how act Sandra actually does it but she gains control of her OG tribe and of her swap tribe and I think she was making some very good point points on the second swap that you know they probably could have voted Tai and probably should have vot a tie because of what he did during that tribal Kyle Sandra 3.0 at this point is probably my favorite Sandra I agree totally she well first things first she has like almost the same number of confessionals in this season as the entirety of Heroes versus Villains which is shocking no it's not cuz what's there right yeah but yeah coming into the season you think that she's dead woman

44:09 Walking like never gonna make it takes control of two different tribes and like you said plays very well even when she has no shot on that swap tribe but she totally changed her play style from the first two times and she's playing with double the house money you could just come in and do whatever she wanted and she it was working for her like she it wasn't anyone but me it was like I'm telling you who it is and you're gonna do it and it they were doing it so it was just so entertaining to watch like she makes the first half of this season and when I think of this season she's probably the first person who comes to mind maybe Sarah you know first but then for me it's sir and Sandra those are the three people who I most think of when I sadly I think of someone else up there too but that's we'll get into that Carrie in a season like this where Sandra has already won twice how is she not the first boot because her tribe does go to tribal how is she not targeted immediately do you think I think she's just magical right like and I actually so I think Sandra was the one person who I did know and it's just cuz she was on like such an early season

45:29 And so I remember being like Oh my God Sandra like I felt like I had seen like an old friend from like high school or something but like she's so such a cool player because she's never like under the radar she's always like right out in front but she always a good job I just I just love her she's great and a person that I can really compare that to that is also in the season is Michaela because Michaela does just tell people just straight up this is how it is and obviously it rubs certain folks the wrong way and I won't go down that road but I do feel like Michaela does as far as being vocal about how she feels about a lot of stuff is very similar to Sandra in that in that regard but I the fact that Sandra is not the first at least her name like gets written down once at that first tribal is a testament to the game player that she is because in winners at War she's also not one of like not one of the first three four boots of that season she makes it to a swap and I you know Everyone likes to oh yeah you she got lucky and this that and the other it's like yeah she won twice in her third time it took two swaps to get rid of her and her fourth time it took a swap and Denise Stapley

46:50 Doing it for shits and gigs I still don't really know why she did it to get her out I think s I mean Sandra to me is always going to be top three just players in general all time because in situ if Tony were to come back for another time after winners at War he is the first boot period there's no one that would let that man unless his tribe wins there's no one that would let that man past that we go the rest so yeah Sandra gets her torch snuff for the final time at that Tribal Council t in a lot of thae moments this season that is it just you feel for him because he just be I think because he's a fun character people don't really realize that like his grasp on the game is not the best he just what do we think about Tai either one you we talked about Tai a couple of nights ago yeah we did Tai 1.0 well tied 2.0 as well they're he's endearing you know what I mean he's a great character you got to love him but his wishy-washiness unreliability as an

48:10 Ally is really exposed this season and it does kind of make some of it a little frustrating at times watching him I can't quite say exactly why it is but just that's the feeling I get watching him is that watching someone who really has a grasp on what they're doing and is kind of making it through the game in spite of themselves despite the fact that I actually think he had a really good shot to win the season if he had made it to the end especially if he was against Brad and Troy yeah so maybe we would have seen something completely different from him had he won the season but he didn't so we just kind of see him I guess a little bit more for how he was out there which was a little erratic yeah car yeah I remember thinking Tai was sweet and liking him but like not really being behind him like I was kind of like ready for him to go but not ready for him to go because like he's sweet but like H why is he here you know oh I understand why he was there because character wise and that's and I think that is going to keep going back to the title game changers that's the if this

49:30 If this season was named Survivor I can't say like Redemption Island because we already have but Survivor something dealing with not Second Chances but like you come up with a theme that's not game changers I feel like this season is probably still is probably looked at as higher yeah but because it's because we have this cloud of Game Changers hanging over the season all of a sudden people are going to look at the cast and they're be like how do we get this they're going to look at a lot of the stuff that happens and like okay yeah like that's weird when in reality if they had just called this I'm very tempted to even say all stars to because I've already made that comparison to the original Allstars I think it would it would at least be looked at as a little bit better now obviously just like the first Allstar there are there's at least one moment that and Seasons where it's like oh man that sucks that's uncomfortable and it's that's a big thing that I just kept in my head today because I was very bored watching the season today and I game changers has never been like a season that I hate or love but today I was just kind of bored with it and I think it's because there are two moments in the season

50:51 That I feel like suck the air out of the whole thing one is the boot right before the murder which sadly we will We like we're going to have to talk about but two is leading into the C Advantage getd it's just like it's so fun watching her once again just like do her thing and just know yep well I know what's about to happen and I know she doesn't get any votes and this is really gonna suck because she this is another situation where she probably wins if she sits at the end we're going to finish off the pre merge with this so Sandra gets booted Debbie gets goes to Exile and crazy Debbie is not one of my favorite people but Cochran shows up and you know he's giving her all this advice and everything and I know I'm not the only person that's ever said this and I think that I would still I was trying to Fantasy like a fanfic different people going to Exile in the situation and everyone always says wouldn't have been so funny if Azie was the one that was there after Azie and Cochran's whole thing in South Pacific and it's like yes that would have been hilarious and then I start looking at

52:11 Other people that were out there it's like yeah what if you send Sandra there what is Cochran gonna tell Sandra that like oh yeah you know back when I won the game she like yeah I've won twice like they're I think they fell into like a pretty good situation with Debbie being a larger than life character but also Cochran being a winner we can have that because if we get Sandra or Azie or a few other folks either there either GNA be a very boring interaction or interaction that this doesn't make any sense like with Sandra but I do like the Exile Island twist this season it was very cute and Debbie really tried to sell it I don't know how well but she tried to sell it we get to the final boot before the merge you know at this point Sandra's gone Varner's actually trying to put the tar at first which is smart I feel like yeah let's get rid of aie right before the merge because we know what he's about and you know we are about to merge Azie might go into on a winning streak let's get rid of him and Zeke even says you know V I like you and like you know maybe this can work and we get to that tribal for me it's always very uncomfortable to watch I think

53:31 Today it just dragged on because I like I guess I just in my head it is kind of a very bang type situation when in reality think it goes on for a good like 10 to 12ish minutes and it just goes I don't want to dwell on it too much because I do want to touch on how people like the others reacted in that situation because I do think that actually does lead into things that happen in the merge the relevant stuff you know Andrea who can never Escape something crazy happening in her season she just always ends up in situations where she just has to break down I think eager Turtle has a compilation on YouTube about just Andrea like Survivor just killing Andrea but this time she you know you didn't have to do that so wrong Azie kind of just you know he's shaking his head and then we get the Sarah moment and I felt like I felt like that Sarah moment was very genuine you know I do feel like you know her coming from the Midwest and you know I don't I don't encounter those all and all that I do feel like it was a real moment and I do feel like that's why she was one of the reasons that why she was so overprotective of Zeke at the

54:51 Merge and I think that's why Zeke and Andrea had such a big fall out in season at the merge or during the merge as well is because everyone kind of basically trauma bonded during that tribal I don't even know how to ask a question for this but I guess I'll just say Carrie the first time you watched that tribal how did how did how did you feel you know is it hard to watch have you been able to go back and watch it and just like take it for what it is yeah so I mean I had no idea that was happening I that was one like there's a lot as I'm watching the ep the seasons after the fact like I'm spoiled by them but that was one that I wasn't spoiled on so I wasn't prepared for it I guess I really appreciated Sarah's well first of all I was really impressed with Zeke for staying so calm because like I can't imagine like not going to get emotional but I can't you know I can't imagine like that but I was really impressed with Sarah for staying so calm and I think it's

56:11 Just added so much to the reason why I liked her and I thought that she was like such a good representative of the season because it was like you know her Still Loving Zeke and still caring about him was so like outside of any that she had ever been exposed to before and then you know she I felt like she was so vulnerable with him and then she's also just played a really good game you know and like I didn't feel like any of that was like gameplay like I felt like that was like true genuine stuff and I no idea what Varner was like I no clue what he thought he was doing like it just was out of exposing a deception like why I don't know and like and so he's a member of the community right yes okay yes that I was thinking about that today I was like wow this is probably the most Rainbow Tribe in the history of Survivor especially now knowing what we know about Azie that like we have crazy Debbie and I think Andrea are the only two Straits On the entire tribe Sarah Oh and Sarah yeah sorry Kyle game playwise and I want to get to this question in a second but

57:31 Gam playwise because this is a I feel like it's an outside of the game moment yeah but it still brings them closer together do you and this is more of an opinion question do you feel like that's why Andrea was so pissed off with Zeke when he tried to come after her two I think two episodes into the merge probably I mean you just went through something like that with somebody you know may you think it may last a little bit longer than that and it's surprised me that Zeke wanted to go after Andrea for the same reason I mean they just went why don't get Zeke's game play you know in general yeah I mean Zeke is Mr Big Move Sierra e is this big moves yeah Z is Mr big moves and you're ultimately going to get like I and I do appreciate the fact that Zeke can remove that from his game playay like the emotional part from the gameplay my thinking is though Andrea is a number for you yeah and like yes I understand you like you want to make a big move right now and

58:52 Like he has the confession where he's like oh yeah do you want to regret not pulling the Trigger or pulling the trigger too early and it's and he's like well pulling the trigger too early I feel like I'd have a bigger regret about it's like no because it's not like Andrea's gonna go on a extended immunity streak because brat C pepper is still there yeah she's good at immunity challenges but you can get rid of her in a certain point but the fact that he was trying to get rid of her so early in the merge really was just like oh man like that sucks because I do feel like they could have kept and that's what eventually happens to that Alliance that does take out the coold pepper Sierra side of things is fact that they start eating they start eating their own because they have to make big moves because Sierra Eon once said and will wall once said and not Tasha because Tasha's great and didn't say anything that you have to make big moves and you have to have a resume question if JT had not returned this time do you think he would have returned for winners at w yes I think so yes I think so I think there's even a case that he should have been on winners at War despite him also being on this season we had enough four-time players there's no I mean you could have made him a fourth time player could have had him redeem himself but I think especially if he wasn't on the season for sure would have been on winners of War yeah I feel like and I

1:00:12 Don't know why he wasn't I didn't I didn't do any research why he wasn't on that season but like yeah I feel like you have to have you I understand not having Cochran on there because of what he does now JT is the first perfect game they gotta have him back for it but once again he looks like such a fool in this season that like so we move on we hit merge and that's when Big Move itis really kicks in and like I went on a rout yesterday every and like I ran about on a rant probably an hour ago at this point every single person that said hey I'm going to make this flashy Big Move got cut either the next episode or the episode after that meanwhile Sarah is making moves she's just doing it subtly which is I would like I feel like that's the perception of big moves is you have to be flashy about it when in reality s does big moves all the time but somehow still makes it through the game Sarah was doing it all season and really only gets clocked because Aubrey or Andrea or maybe both look at her face after Sierra gets voted out and realize oh she's trying to she's playing everyone why do you I mean

1:01:32 Game Changer is the name aside why do you feel we are now in these in these 30s Seasons so adamant about the big move the resume type thing when statistically there's probably in the 30s there are zero winners that have the best res or all the big moves but historically there's probably like three so why do you think that this was the era of people felt like they were obligated to do that and both I want both of y'all's opinions on that so I have one thought that has to do with I don't know if this how relevant this was back then since I didn't watch it live but like know just imagine how people are trying to build a brand for themselves on social media like are people just trying to get people talking that might be more of a thing now but I know back when I used to watch Like The Bachelorette and all those shows like everyone was trying to do like big things because they were like oh I'll go viral and then I can quit my job and I'll just be an influencer whatever and so maybe that's could be a small part of it but I also think that this show in particular I wonder how much of it was not pushed by

1:02:52 Producers but you know in their confessionals I'm sure they're having producers ask questions like talk about how you're a game changer how does that thing relate to game changing blah blah and at some point like it's going to leak in like oh holy crap what if I'm not a game changer and so that doesn't answer your question about like what about all the other 30s but I'm sure that has something to do no I no I get where you're coming from and I agree because I said the exact same thing about millenni vers Gen X yesterday it's like none of the things that the people were doing in their confessionals were it's like Millennials do this and Jers do this none of it ever seemed genuine except for the Brett Zeke where Brett comes out to Zeke and Brett's like yeah you know I you know my generation we have had to hide don't ask hotel and all that other stuff and that was the only real genuine Gen X Millennial moment in the season for me like watching it's like okay yeah I feel like this is real every other time I felt like producers were saying hey make sure you relate this back to The Season's theme Kyle say I think I was just sitting here thinking about it I think Tony and Natalie Anderson changed a lot

1:04:13 About Survivor going forward because they made some pretty flashy moves right they made the big moves if you want to call it that but they were smart things to do they weren't making those moves because they wanted to make a big move and have something on their resume they were doing it because that was the best thing to do for their game and people saw that and they were like man that was cool that was exciting I should do something like that you know like I need to have a good game moment or a good TV moment and then Cambodia happened where that was just gam play all over the place and I think from there people were just wanting to create a lot of the cool things that they saw on the show and then we had a lot of attorneys in here with the blood versus water Cambodia game changers and so I think a lot of 30s people may have been playing to return a second time I that's not that's not a new thought you know I think some of them genuinely were doing that and we've had five rur E you know new non winners since game changers so you know it hasn't it hasn't worked I guess and I think maybe in recent past couple Seasons it hasn't

1:05:33 Been I need something on my resume it's been more of if it's gonna be a big move it's because it's the right it has to make sense yeah it has to it has to make and this was my only qualm with Hannah's game yesterday once again I know I'm biased but like I thought Hannah played a very good game in Mion X I think that the fact that she tried to keep David one more round because of other things I do feel like that really turned off a lot of people jury wise which sucks because it yes it was a move and I understood her rationale before it I disagreed with it but like that's you know that's just one person I do feel like a lot of people in this era just feel like they don't pay attention to context like you said they focus on the fact they focus on the moment and don't really realize what actually is happening in those moments they only they want they want to have that their own Survivor moment and that's cool and like you said what the specialist saying about the Malcolm vote out where it's like yeah in the moment that's a lot of fun but you know JT suffers for it that tribe suffers for it all of a sudden Cole Pepper Sierra and Tai

1:06:53 Are looked at as a as a crew and it only really benefits Co pepper ultimately because he makes it to the end but like it shows that Co pepper has control over Tai it shows that Sierra has control over all these people there's a lot to that goes into it and I think that yes once again you know I respect a big move here and there it's all good this season is just so plagued with two swaps and hey this season for ties we're just going to go straight to rocks and hey we're going to merge but like only or like we're going to you guys can to have your food but only if someone does this I feel like production is also doing too much in this season and like I know people like Carri you brought this up earlier people like to about the 41 through 46 Seasons about there being so much in there and I do agree there is a lot that they don't need in there but 34 is pretty much well you could make a case like 31 or maybe even 30 starts It Off where they start introducing a lot of these advantages and then we hit 34 and it's like they're all these things we're g to change the way that the jury talks to you what I was most surprised by is because we get a new twist one season later and in HHH why

1:08:13 They didn't just introduce mandatory fir making this time around because they introduce everything else here they might as well have just brought made mandatory fir making here that way we don't have to have these J brones on the internet saying that they rigged HHH for Ben for some reason question I know I'm ranting but like I've got a lot to say do you think Sandra gets enough credit or gets enough respect for winning the game twice from players outside of Russell hands yes I do from random smart marks on Reddit no from real fans like us yes I feel like that answers all three people in the community do you guys disagree agree I agree those who know they I love Sandra so we move on we everyone's making their big moves aie like I said I this is my favorite aie version because he doesn't you know when he gets voted out and he's like luck catching food it's like dude this4 he's not no one cares up to speed you know and that's my problem that's always been my

1:09:34 Problem with aie and why I don't look him look at him as highly as some people do clear clearly not this panel but he just doesn't he was out of his League I think yeah with this crowd ay's it's fine like I said this is my favorite Aussie I like what Sarah said about how she was tricked into like trigged into liking a transgender what wait what did she say that did she say that I never heard of that I've never heard that you so I'm not gonna answer that one but what do we think about that yeah I won't I won't touch that one so we move on and we get to the other moment of the Season obviously it's not problematic it's just a moment that sucks the air out of the season with Advantage genon for me I felt like sir had this on lock the first time I watched this like okay this is it like it took her four times but like who cares she's gonna win and it's gonna be amazing because even when she was throwing votes throughout the season all of them made sense like she under hey Michaela you still need to vote Zeke

1:10:54 Here and still going to votee you but don't worry you're not going to go home this is what's actually going on here and her talk with michaelb as a person of color her having that talk of like hey you have to like because these people are going to look at you a different type of way that really resonated with me we get to that final six tribal and we all know what happens either one of you should there have been something put in place to prevent something like that from happening like you there's I understand that like hindsight and all that but like you have to know as a very large production crew then because we just had a season three seasons ago that we had a tribal with no votes do you think that it might be you know something to look into that hey we might have a tribal where five people are immune and one person isn't and they don't get votes like how do we prevent that from happening do you think there should have been something put in place to prevent that from happening Carrie we'll start with you I have no idea what that would be though like yeah I you know like what could that even be like a rule

1:12:15 That limits you know you can you're only you can only play an idol if no one else has played an idol like you have to play this Idol before anyone else is you know what I mean like I don't know I don't know what that would what that could be I guess don't have three Idols in the game at once if you're also going to have the Legacy Advantage which can only be played at the final six but I don't think that they that even crossed their minds because I think they loved this I think this is what they wanted I think that they were always hoping that something like this would happen which is a totally different discussion whether that's good or bad but you know I do think they could run into a situation at some point where everyone is immune and they certainly should have something in place for that and had there been a tie at like let's say Legacy Advantage only two Idols get played and we have a tie where you're supposed to go to rocks those people are supposed to be immune the ones that are tied that situation could have easily come up at some point this season and I wonder what they would have done well and production sees this and decides they're going to start adding more advantages in subsequent seasons in back yeah instead of dialing it back we just keep on

1:13:35 Getting more advantages and now we're in the 40s and there's an advantage for everything oh my God I hate that Tri so much real quick Gabe Ruiz here says production was clueless thought there wouldn't be that many advantages in at six and I actually do agree with that in a season called game changers you had two people with three Idols combined and they held on to them for since the premerge they had them and not an idol got played for until the finale so I think that production maybe got and we all got a little unlucky with how that went out with the two people that had all the advantages just never played him yeah we're starting to wrap up I didn't want to touch this because I mean I'm going to rant about this tomorrow a lot they did not rig HHH for Ben because and my prime example for this is if they're not going to rig the game for sir or Azie or any of Productions favorites they're not going to rig it for some random J Bron named Ben playing in his first time they'll probably like and the fact that he was portrayed as such a schmuck and wears at war is probably proof to that if they were going to rig a

1:14:55 Game for someone they would do it for someone they act like they have shown to love and propes has a very passive aggressive comment there the reading like even though like I'd like everyone the same even though the internet thinks that I have my favorites it's like I mean you do you do have your favorites but I don't think they would go I don't think they would go to the point of rigging a game for this yes that would have been the case wrapping up from me game changers is dull it's fine it's fine it's dull and there're two like I said there's two moments where it's just like kind of gets me to check out for long periods of it I think the gameplay is fine I think the gameplay is silly in certain aspects but it's fine I'm I'll give it a 3.5 out of five as far as people that have that have come back from it outside of the winter I think it's just Aubrey unless I'm mistaken oh besides any of the winners that also were on winners at War I think Aubrey is the only one that's come back from game changers is that sounds right yeah I think so I won't ask the question

1:16:15 Of was she the right person was she the right person I think at that point the production was trying to put Aubrey in a situation where she could potentially win they didn't I mean she didn't and I think she was the first rury on edge of Extinction they got voted out but on the other end of that is there anyone from this season that we feel like we would want to see for season 50 because I do have two answers and it's my same two answers from yesterday I'm not gonna count the winners yeah no yeah I think Andrea would be a great pick because she's kind of spanned a lot of eras of Survivor well you know 12 season period but a lot changed in there and I think she's improved every time she's played yeah this is the best Andrea here best Andrea so she would probably be she's the first person that comes to mind who would you say Carrie I would love to see a Sur back I don't think that we'd ever get it I feel like that should be everyone's answer right group her in with the winners you know so this was my first introduction to Andrea and I loved her like I was like she is so smart she's so strategic blah okay I had so many

1:17:35 Positive things about her and then like watching the earlier Seasons I was so impressed with how she's grown while she's been on the island and you know I could see her wanting to do another season because I know she's you know like it's part of her career you know having you know being out there and having a personality and you know things like that so I could see that being something that she would do for me I mean I'm going to cheat a little bit I mean obviously three is like just my def facto answer for anything but I let's say that like you said Kyle just put her with the winners Andrea is another person that I like I think that Andrea 4.0 would you know it would add to her that one fun trivia question about Andrea Bel if you don't know look it up but Andrea I think would be a fun one but my two people yesterday were Zeke and Michaela I think that maybe Zeke 3.0 I don't think that he would ever play again but I think Zeke 3.0 would probably dial it back a little bit as far as the over strategizing and he comes off as such a fan and I love that I do love that like even at the C tribal his facial reactions were amazing and then Michaela because

1:18:55 I do feel like Michaela is Michaela is such a you can tell that Jeff likes her but Michaela is such a fun character as it comes to trials as the fun is not being non-bullshit about a lot of stuff you know the fact that you know she's so overly competitive in challenges and like she hates losing and you see her react to losing and I think that is fine because at the end when she's sitting on the jury she's probably the least bitter person sitting there because she understands what this is and it's just a game and she's calling everyone hey you guys are all bunch of bitter betties for this I why are you guys so upset over this woman for doing what she did she played us all get over it so Michaela and Zeke I would say and I really hope that it's I really hope that it's Serene more than anyone else but like it's fine thank you both and thank you maky we will be back tomorrow for HHH where the season wasn't rigged I'm looking forward to talking all about final four fir making tomorrow night my God Kyle Cary thank you for coming on short notice everyone once again follow DCP

1:20:15 It's a great game like I feel like I've sent that a thousand times at this point but it is and I think I think that might be it that is absolutely it because I gave my I gave my ratings we did okay so yeah we will see you guys on the other side