Survivor Ghost Island Review

0:00 And welcome back to Day 36 of Survivor 46 and 46 Wendell just won Survivor ghost Island I'm G to tell yall right now I know I said yesterday that I hit a wall and I was very bored it very much continued today this is this is not an easy watch not because of anything problematic it's just it's just so boring but today we're joined for the first time in two years by Ryan you helped me cover two seasons before when I did 42 and 42 and we have you back for the first of two times I believe this time what were your thoughts of ghost Island the first time you watched it and have those opinions changed throughout the years all right so when ghost Island first aired I was a little boy I was like 14 and I remember like it was just one of those moments right obviously and we'll get into this further the game play as it progressed isn't exactly the most dynamic but the ending is very memorable and that kind of shapes the way that the season is kind of viewed to this day so I remember watching it back then like seeing the Tha vote was like this big thing and now like as years have passed I've kind of been able to

1:20 Maybe focus on some of the other they're a little but a little bright spots about oh no froze the season so I'm excited to get into that and you know I'll just preface this by saying that like well I'll just preface this by saying that you know I know not every season can be the ideal season but at the end of the day like every season does have something to provide so I'm excited to kind of get into those little things that I liked about that maybe people might have overlooked yeah and I will say this is the first season that I have done this time around where I haven't been able to really latch on to anything that I'm like wow that's exciting probably until the until final tribal and I in my head this time I kept comparing it to plow for me so for palow for me once the allore of the Oolong tribe being decimated goes away every T other time that I've watched palao has just been like okay yeah like this is this is all it is it's not that fun this time around I could say the same cases for ghost Island where like I was never like a big ghost Island person to begin with but once the Allure of oh yeah at the end it's going to tie gets taken away this season actually just happens with no real

2:41 Type of craziness and that's I feel like that's what makes it so and I'm not one of these people that like oh well it reminds me of older Seasons because I love older seasons for me it's just and I'm excited to hear what you have to say positively about it positively about it because I just I couldn't I couldn't Vibe with it this time around so what is it about ghost Island for you that you can look at and say okay the these are some of the good things that happened yeah so one thing I think that a lot of people obviously like it's very Forefront of the edit but I think a lot of people Overlook is that this is one of the very few seasons where like we have a Duo that not only like makes it to the end together because we have seen Duos get to the end together that are running the game but it's also a season where like both of these play both of these players quite literally have equal win Equity so even though as you're getting through the post merge it seems really dull you're it's in the back of your head like you know I can I'm sure both these guys are going to get to the end it's just a matter of who's it going to be and I think something that a lot of people complain about with this season however I feel like I've always been one to say that

4:01 Like the editing should be more so accurate of the gameplay than it should be like an even representation of everyone and I feel like having those two Front Runners at the Forefront kind of keeps our mind on that thought of well I wonder who's going to take it at the end because it has to be one of them yeah and I will say that it's very similar to the allst stars in that aspect as for me at least where yeah you have a Duo that is very much the center of attention the entire season they don't even bother giving anyone else screen time this time around and I feel like if you enjoy Duos if you enjoy that type of relationship then this is the season for you if you are looking to connect with other people which I really which I very much do when I'm doing rewatches like this where I'm looking for other people to latch on get their stories this is one of those Seasons where I can't like Donathan I feel like would be the only person for me this time around that it's like okay yeah Donathan I can I can rock with Donathan I appreciate how much he tries to antagonize them from like eight or seven until he gets voted out I think it's a it's very similar to like Spencer and Cass doing that with Tony and Kagan it's very similar to people trying to provoke Ben last season and in

5:22 HHH where you know Donathan just saying he's just saying whatever he wants and Wendel and both approach it differently enough but they still both come off as like kind of butt hurt that he is saying this stuff about him so what did you think about Donathan as a character this season Donathan as a game player yeah I really liked Donathan as a part of this season I think he's one of the very few players obviously who really tried to at least set something in motion against the two very clear dominant front MERS of the season and I think something very interesting about Jonathan is I feel like he was put into the game obviously not on a great tribe and he's kind of entering the merge and he's just like one of those examples of like I almost see him like as New Era players like players like Owen or players like Romeo who really just like tried to get something going but just couldn't take down the big other people in front of them just couldn't get other people to take those shots with them and I think he has a lot of potential for a return if obviously there are a lot of other people who I think could be returned first but I think it's a great example of somebody who like even someone like Jake who like just tried after to just get something in motion but just couldn't get other people with him

6:42 To take the shot and I think it's brings up a very interesting point of like you know just because you can't make those shots doesn't meily make you a bad player it's just that the other people with you might not understand the importance of making those moves I think he really kind of Drew the raw end of the stick in terms of who he was kind of paired up with in this cast yeah I agree and that is something that yeah like you compared him to Jake very fair comparison because yes at a certain point he is trying to make things happen and it's just not the fact that him and Laurel are the last two people from his OG tribe I do think is a testament to both of their games and we're going to talk about Laurel because I do feel like people unfairly look at her as just a follower of this entire season when I do think there is Merit to her game now I also have big qualms with it but I did appreciate watching lurel this time around and I do appreciate watching Donathan almost every time I watch this season because he is a fun antagonist to what we're being we're being taught to be the pro protagonists of Dom and Wendell this is the Dom and Wendell show I think that Jonathan's backstory is great I think the way he goes out is great Laurel

8:02 So Laurel is the last person from her OG tribe a very notorious tribe as far as challenge performance and they just cannot gain the right footing pre- swap second swap going into the merge and Laurel somehow is able to stand there at the end despite navidi strong and that is you know I know that's a running gag about this season is the fact that it's navidi strong and I said I tweeted this out earlier I was like I was going to take a drink every time someone says Navid strong or keeping naid strong I was only really I drank like maybe 12 to 14 times today and there was earlier in the merge it didn't really like that story line kind of died out as it continued what were your thoughts on Laurel this time around or just anytime that you've watched the season yeah I feel like it was very interesting watching Laurel the first time because in the preseason obviously Jeff was very high on her and she was kind of portrayed as like this stealthy sneaky assassin and so when I came like later into the season she was kind of getting aligned with Dominic and Wendell and she showed that she was loyal I thought for sure that's somewhere at least down the line she was going to be kind of itching to make that big move against him eventually and so watching it like in the post merges time and time after again she's

9:23 Approach with the possibility of Now's the Time Now's the Time and she's just like that's a time I think it not only I think it speaks to like one how good Dom and Wendell are as players that they're able to Keepers so loyal despite the very obvious thing that they're way better players and they're like running the game but also like I think it shows like a lot of things that i' I've heard survivors say after the game which is that like they always wish that like they had made a move sooner like they wish that they didn't wait for their instincts to kick in I think this kind of plays in here where she's I mean you just watch the final try and she's pretty much just neglected it serves the ultimate punishment of making her vot so I think it was really interesting watching kind of Laurel through the season just it shows almost like what not to do in terms of waiting to make moves yeah and I will say this at final travel she did try to make a case she tried to make a case at hey I knew that I could have you know I chose to be here with them because you know person for my OG tribe I felt like I could have made these moves and my bigger move because I knew that I wasn't in anyone's longterm plans and if I'm not in anyone's long-term plans why would I flip one these people it's

10:43 It's you saying that she's like Jake is so like I didn't even think about that watching this time around but it's so true because Jake was all you was constantly trying to do things oh well you said that he was like Jonathan but I would say the Laurel's kind of like Jake to as far as you know at a certain point she is pretty much the swimming up shits creek without a paddle she there is real she there's really no way she can win at a certain point only because she either goes with these two to the end and loses or she flips on one of them in which case these people over here don't have them in her long-term plans I think at a certain point maybe like Donathan could like have heard them and yeah once the two of them left yes probably but at that point you're so outnumbered that you can't really do anything so I don't I don't disagree with what Laurel did this season I just think that she was she ended up in such a situation that she couldn't really she couldn't really I won't say adjust because she adjusted very well because she was someone said she would played on all four tribes this season she couldn't really find like the person or persons that she actually would have a chance against she ran into one of if not the most dominant

12:03 Duo in the history of the game do you feel like Laurel gets a bad rep you know from the larger Survivor Community I'll say yes and no they're two sides to it I feel like on one side I think it just goes to show and I think Jake has said this himself like it just shows like sometimes like you're just dealt a raw and the stick and there really isn't much you can do I feel like there is a lot of luck involved in Survivor and if just the people you end up with on your starting tribe on your swap tribe just don't really appeal to maybe your qualities as a player or your desires further on the game it might not just work and had you been paired up with someone maybe different who was thinking maybe more so in the future long term then might have worked out better for you at the same time though like hindsight is 2020 and I feel like obviously now the season is ended and she's a zero vote finalist I feel like it would have definitely made sense for her to say you know what like maybe I am not involved in these long-term plans but instead of riding with these two guys to basically a guaranteed death I might as well at least try to work with someone else and maybe make something happen like remember Jake and for I don't know why I mentioning Jake so many times but like Jake in 45 when he was trying to save Caleb like he said like I have to take control of this game like I don't want to just be a follower and he tries to make that move to save Caleb and obviously he doesn't work

13:24 And he gets put on the bottom for the rest of the game but at least he tried right so I think it shows both sides of like you know sometimes you make the moves and it doesn't work out sometimes you choose not to make the moves and it also doesn't work out so there really is no way to say like oh well he should have done this should have done that so I do think she does get a bit of a bad rep I would say if I was in her position I would have tried to at least stir something up but I do understand why she felt like she didn't really have any options moving forward with anyone else other than the two people who've proven to be so loyal to her yeah her and Donathan are like this where you know if you want to talk about the same different size of the same coin they're the two last oh my God orange tribes there are the only two left I don't know why I can't pronounce that right now but they are the only two left and Donathan is shown to be someone that is trying his best at a certain point to try to change the game now he's by the time he tries to do that the game is pretty much over for him and on the other hand you have Laurel who doesn't but still sits at the end and I don't think that Don like I don't disagree with how Donathan was going about it because he still made final five and he's antagonizing the duo from final seven on I believe

14:44 He's sitting at tribal telling Dom yeah we don't have to talk and he's sitting at camp and he's telling Wendell yeah I feel like Dom's just gonna put me on the jury because he knows I'm going to vote for him or this that and the other and like oh so you don't want to go to the finals with us and he's like I'm just saying just putting it out there that this is how it is I think L and you can compare the two of them to Dom and Wendell because wend was more and he even admits he was more of the passive person in the duo while Dom is out there you know being flashy and according to some of the jurors here saying that he was being a little aggressive you know it's the same thing as Donathan and Laurel where Donathan is more of the vocal person is kind of taking a back seat and I don't think that there is anything wrong with either way you approach the game as long as it's done with respect and it I did feel so horrible for Dom here it's very similar to Mike Turner and 42 where Mike Turner has a moment during final tribal where he realizes that the jury felt a type of way about him even though he felt like he was you know doing what he was doing Dom here you could tell hey like I never meant to disrespect y'all I didn't me to give off that impression and I did feel that was the C I do feel like that was the truth when he

16:04 Was saying that do you did you get did you get dick vibes from him this season did you get like he was trying to be too controlling I mean as a viewer watching from home it's obviously really entertaining to watch someone play like that and I feel like had I been on the island with him I would have probably viewed it in the same way of like I can respect really good gameplay even if it does come off as a bit theatrical or like Brash or callus however I do understand that there are other people out there and this is Ghost Island let's be honest pretty recruit heavy there are going to be people out there who might not be able to appreciate that level of I guess Showmanship to the same degree as someone like you or me so I personally didn't get like dick vibes from him but at the end of the day like the most important part of playing a good Survivor game is understanding the people you're with and you know obviously we see Dominic from the very beginning gets into conflict with people it's just maybe just like a personality disconnect but I think that's something you should have recognize earlier on is that you know maybe this group I'm with might not appreciate or like this way I'm playing so I was hoping maybe he could adjust that but he didn't and I guess that was his downfall I would say the two people that he had the biggest conflicts with at least from what I remember about today

17:25 God were Bradley who suck and Chris Noble who did vote for him to win the game so and I do agree with you like everyone has their different reasoning for doing things but like just off the top of my head the only two people that I can think of that were like that Dom was more aggressive towards would be two people and one of them voted for him to win and the other one was a pre merger thank goodness because I don't know if I could have dealt with Bradley at the merge P it does bring up an interesting point because like you see Dom is fighting with Chris and that's like kind of like a very big part of the story of the show and then Chris turns around and votes for him however there are other people who are also kind of put off by that maybe not directly their conflict but just the attitude in general it might not just extend to just Dom and Chris their kind of own argument it might like rub other people like observers the wrong way and if I was there like I personally wouldn't mind if Don wants to have a conflict with me that's fine but if I see him you know maybe getting into that kind of argument with someone else I look at that and I'm like well is this really good gameplay like is this something I really want to reward if he is getting to these conflicts with other people so it brings up a good point of like well how much is it really just a one-on-one more so than it's everyone is watching this so

18:45 You better like watch out what you say yeah I do agree I do agree and I and I do really like Dom this season I think based off a final tribal performance I would have had a hard time voting between all three but like if I'm realistic voting between the two and you know that's only from a 43 minute edited show you know being out there I feel like maybe it could have been different but well from we shown I feel like I would have had a hard time voting between the two of them outside that and this is one of the big problems that ghost Island runs into is outside the two basically the show is very all over the place as far as the edit and I said this about HHH yesterday and I'm saying again today I turned on this season last night and I looked at the cast and I'm like I honestly do not remember not I won't say half because that's not true but there were a lot of people this season that I'm like I don't even remember your face and that's hard for me who has now done this three different times to and seen the season you know once before that I've seen this season enough that I should recognize at least everyone's face even if I don't recogniz name I could not I and there are 20 people there are 20 people in an all newbie season

20:06 And I feel like that's one of the that this season is kind of drags on is because there are there are so many people that you don't even get time to attack like to attach yourself to I feel like Jacob Derwin is probably the only real exception maybe second Stephany she gets some fun screen time but Jacob derwin's like the biggest character for the first episode do you feel like because they knew where the game was going the editors they knew it was going to be a tie they just kind of said hey it we're just gonna neglect everyone else this season and we're only gonna focus on these two because when they tie we want it to make sense to the larger audience or do you just feel like they were the two most entertaining people which I don't agree with but why do you think the season is edited the way that it is I think it's a very interesting topic right it kind of almost becomes like this philosophical thing of well what makes a good edit right is it everyone gets represented equally or is it well the gaml should be reflected in the edit and I think the route that the editors decided to take especially with the tie at the end of the season is you know if somebody maybe didn't really contribute that much why really give them a bigger voice when we could be

21:26 Giving that screen time to really like big pivotal things that are going to be attributed to the Future winner and runner up at the end of it you know like a lot of these like dull characters that get picked off in the early post merch you know you might feel upset that you know like I didn't really get to know these people I don't even remember their faces and it's just kind of like watching One unknown person go after the other but it's not for me I've always viewed it as not so much as like a Episode by episode but more so like appreciating the whole story and I think like by the end of it you know those might have been a bit of a SLO to not know those people that well but by the end of it you at least kind of have a bigger view of the gameplay of the people that are really running things I feel like at least in my opinion it's always more important to show an accurate representation of what's actually happening in the game versus you know giving somebody like I won't say names but giving someone screen time who's maybe not really adding much to the gameplay like why show what they really have to say yeah and I and I would say that I sort of agree with you and I will say I'll say this also when I looked at the cast last night I was trying to con like remember who the jurs were which once again I don't have that problem with virtually any other season and I'm like oh yeah this person I was convinced that Morgan and Brendan were both on the jury

22:46 I was convinced they both made the merge and then they were both on the jury so when they went home I'm just like oh okay maybe I don't remember and it's because I just this season is just and when people say that Redemption Island is a very boring season they're right but there are still things that happened in that season that can be like oh yeah I remember rice Wars for some reason I remember Franchesca versus Phillip I remember Philip's underwear getting buried everything that has to do with Philip basically this season it's I remember the tie and I remember the flashback the flashbacks are the best part of this season and we're gonna talk about the TST of Redemption Island in a bit but I like is there a moment to you and we won't talk about the tie every season has that one moment or those two moments or whatever does this season have a moment for you specifically well I mean if you're going to bring up funny Redemption Island moments I think we have to mention the so much like comedy that is this merge episode of this season we get two like alltime great voting confessionals which cannot be forgotten and I love the dialogue between Donathan and Wendell like you were mentioning Donathan just saying whatever he wants to say and the

24:06 Whole like bro exchange like this could have been used on you bro oh like whatever bro I thought that was funny just a funny moment just funny banter and I just love how like kind of like the in-game like conflict between these two people can like kind of like culminate in like a funny moment for us as viewers I like that yeah we get the Chris Noble well both Dom and Wendell's voting confessional for cobal like you mentioned yeah I okay I'll say yeah that's a that is a moment that is a moment and I and I thought the last food eating Challen the gross food eating challenge the delicacy challenge was in Cambodia until that episode happened today I was like oh yeah they finished after Cambodia we never see it again and then it happened today it's like well what and Angela wins and Angela is another person I was convinced she was the same person as the second runnerup in edge of Extinction they just in my head they are the same person and so I'm sitting there I'm like wait doesn't Angela make the end but that doesn't make any sense because Laurel makes it to the end I

25:26 Don't understand what's going on going to the Twist and I've said this enough over the last fiveish days because we are now in the era where survivor really much very much like pigeon holes there cast into the themes of the season they feel like to really Hammer home these twists and this twist I know I said that Millennials versus Gen X was very annoying and I know I said game changers came off as very corny this is the corniest of the themes that we get right now ghost Island as a concept I enjoy when Jacob goes there for the first time and he's looking at all the snuffers and he's looking at the idols and all that I thought that was a very fun moment especially watching it like this where it's like oh man this is 35 days of you know my life but the I feel like the execution is where it really like it's where it shoots itself in the foot so what did you think of the concept of ghost Island and why do you think that I mean unless you think that it's good why do you think it failed so horribly as a concept yeah

26:46 So I am mostly in the similar boat as you where I really love the concept but the execution could have been a lot better and I will maybe mention some ways I think could have been better but just kind of getting into the twist I like love the fact that they have a season like revolved around like past Survivor mistakes I think even the gameplay in this season reflects that and I love that they brought all the old stuff back that was really cool to see as fans of the show but also one thing they do not need to show Eric in the very first clip like leave that man alone he's been through alone and then they drag him out for the finale he was like Hey you remember you remember Eric and James do you what I would actually like to know is did they like do you think Eric was just sitting at home watching the new season of Survivor and then he sees his face come up and he's like wait a minute I never agreed to that like pay me they better pay me so but back to it back to it yeah I think the reason why honestly it failed so I want say failed so miserably I do think there are some pros to in this season but I think the reason why it failed in this context is honestly like and I don't want to blame the cast but I do think it is the cast like in a season where the more where the cast was playing a bit more dynamically I do think a

28:06 Lot of these twists could have worked because like it almost reminded me of like the new era where like we get players going to islands and constantly have to be thinking about oh did this person get an advantage is this person lying do they maybe we need to vote this person out because they might have something I think it brings up a really like interesting it was kind of like before its time but I think this the way the gameplay worked out didn't really support the idea of like bringing advantages in the game it didn't really change the gameplay itself and I do think there are some ways that it could be it could have been kind of changed to maybe make the gameplay a bit more Dynamic and propes does say in the finale up until a certain point he was like oh yeah only one of the advantages have actually been used correctly this season out of like nine it's like do you understand how bad that is Jeff that only one of these things you re and he keeps going with the well I guess they must be cursed then that's the only reason that these things aren't working is because they're cursed as someone that doesn't believe in curses you know it's corny on that alone but I feel they'd really try to nail it home that these things are actually cursed and that's the only to the point where the extra vote what gets used and then gets used again because it doesn't work I think it was the extra vote it's like oh it didn't work that's

29:26 We're gonna we're going to add it back because this time and it's like have you guys already ran out of previous Seasons things that you have to reintroduce something that you already introduced in the season player that's still in the game yes and it's frustrating because I know we I know we're beating a dead it's true the concept of ghost island is something that it's very similar to like the concept of one world I enjoy it as well you know put them on the same is you know have people that know how to play but like the concept of one world was pretty fun the concept of ghost island is Fun the problem is they probably can't do it again because they used all the they got all the cursed stuff out of the way yes I gu Co Peppers Cole Pepper n and col's er are still out there somewhere and I think that might be it but I feel they really dropped the ball the how he did and it's and watching this time I realized that from [Music] 30 36 on there is some type of with the exception of David versus Goliath and that's it with the exception of David vers Goliath there's

30:46 Some type of y'all are gonna off over here for a bit deal so after DAV GL we've got okay edge of Extinction okay oh we've got island of the idols okay cool winers is we got edit Extinction again and then 40 41 through 46 we've got the summit and I think the worst versions of this are probably in idland island of the idles and ghost Island where there you can get sent to ghost Island and just oh okay you can't do anything today sorry and that happens a lot it happens a lot to this season it's like oh well I guess I'm just gonna sit here for the rest of the time go ahead I agree that's like probably the biggest the biggest issue I have with ghost island is the fact that like the players don't necessarily get to choose whether they want to play or not if they can't play then well they're just laying in a little Hut with snuffers over their head until they get picked up by the boat and they go back to Camp I would love to see especially on a season that's like so defined by like stagnant gameplay and people not playing like why take why send someone to an island with them you know thinking of the possibility that oh I might get something that could change the game only to tell them you can't play today so I sorry you can't you can't do anything today and you know you're just G to have to chill I that's

32:07 Just once this just goes into how they really dro the ball with this twist and I do feel like the person that made it the most exciting got voted out second Jacob Derwin who I know comes from the LRG community of the Survivor fandom he survives one EP or no he doesn't survive one episode he gets voted out at the end of the first episode second boot what were your thoughts on Jacob because and a cast of like this Jacob is someone that does stand out in a bad way but like he's fun he was fun for the hour and a half that he's here what were your thoughts on Jacob I think Jacob is like an alltime Great Character up there with Zayn up there with jalinski like the great alltime like Premier flameouts you know I think I think like a lot of people were giving him a lot of heat coming out the season you know as with a lot of fans that go on the show I feel like maybe people thought he didn't represent the Super Fan Community as well as he does those people are hypocrites because they would do the exact same if they went out there yeah and you know what Jacob maybe thought future fans will Less on what not to do so they can at least appreciate him for that but I think like he's just

33:27 So like comping I know people are saying like you know the premiere was just all Jacob he gets 15 confessionals in one episode and you know like I believe he's in like the upper half in terms of like screen time in the edit yeah which is crazy on a for a premier boot on a 20 person cast is just crazy but I think it just goes to show like the game play and like the character moments on a season like this are going to take precedence when you have people in the post merge who are just kind of sitting not really doing much just waiting to get picked off someone like Jacob to kind of maybe Kickstart the season in like this spectacular burnout is just so fun for me so I love I love Jacob and he doesn't deserve all the hate although he does doesn't he is exactly what super fans would do a lot of the super fans would do out there just immediately just trying to play as hard as possible because they got to make big moves this kid went out went through the rice looking for stuff he goes to the he goes to like want to call it the Ed Extinction or island of the idol he goes to ghost Island he gets the Legacy Advantage he sends it to Morgan he comes back he has this fake Idol and he gets clocked I think by Brendan goes this guy's a super fan and he doesn't bring back the parchment that's this is with immediately

34:47 Gets clocked and he's still you know he's still trying to make these C and he tells Stephanie oh yeah it's fake yeah like it's such it's so funny it's such a fun moment and you know the fact that they lose the first Challenge and he gets sent to ghost Island he said it's all part planned and Gonzalez gets voted out first then she gets sometime I guess but you still get we get more time to spend with Jacob it's like oh man maybe this is the opportunity he needs to survive longer into the season because he didn't get voted out first and then all of a sudden he gets voted out second because when they lose again and he was like you know I guess I'll go and they're like we're going to send Donathan he like well yeah you're you are so screwed besides the parchment thing did you think it was a good idea to make that fake Idol to like or do you think that if he just said hey I sent this advantage to Morgan because or I sent it to someone on the other tribe because that's what it was do you think truth would have been better or do you feel like you would have probably done what Jacob did I mean in my opinion and I've thought about this a lot like at least if I were like on Survivor

36:08 A very big thing for me is like maintaining a good impression so for him to come right out of the gate and like the first three days on the island and say hey everyone I have an idol and then to just even making yourself like a notable figure just so public and like loud and like clumsy and just like just making your presence known not necessarily in the best way even just saying like Malo is the greatest tribe of all time after you lose like why that like it's just not necessary help you in the game there's no reason for that it only like makes you look stupid in front of everyone else so I think like I don't know he did he did a lot of things wrong but I still love him yeah if you want to talk about curses and jinxes which once again I don't believe in but Jacob Jinxed the out of this tribe because he said that I think three different times in the premiere episode and they don't win until right before the merge I'm pretty sure I think they may have won another one in there but I don't I can't remember I know they won the right one right before the merge because that's where Bradley goes home outside of Jacob pre merge I understand that people have certain folks that they do enjoy this season I think that Bradley is a he's a pre-merge villain I won't say he's a good pre merge villain but he's there

37:28 And he's a pre- merged villain I think that Stephanie's hot both of them Morgan gets the Morgan gets the Legacy advantage and it doesn't really pay off for anything there are probably other people that get voted out pre- merch oh James was there and Brendan was there why is this what is the problem with this cast for you what why do you think that people are so down on this cast so I think this is like a really like topheavy cast and by topheavy I don't even mean like Dom and Wendell I literally mean like there are like probably half the cast that I think like are like good cast members that like just really just like got kind of screwed over by the way the game works out and sometimes that happens the game doesn't always go your way the boot order might not always like work out and I think there like a prime case of that where like I pretty much believe like at least like almost everyone that's voted out in the pre merge is basically like a better character or player than pretty much everyone in the post merge the merge yeah I won't I won't deny that Brendan was yeah I would say brenon Stephanie was out there like trying to wheel and deal so

38:48 I don't Jacob I feel like if Jacob had found footing he could have been he could have done something I felt like gonz I want to talk about Chelsea because Chelsea you know she is basically purple Chelsea this season ironically I got a lot of so watching her this time I kept thinking about Kelly Wigglesworth in Cambodia and Alexis Jones and mik renesia where both of them we have to hear from other people playing oh Alexis is a threat if she gets to the end she's playing really hard and if Alexis does this and Alexis does this she's going to get to the end and we are not seeing any of it Wigglesworth and in Cambodia people keep saying oh man Wigglesworth she's good with everyone you know she's wheeling and dealing she's doing this that and the other it's like we're not saying that but I trust that what y'all are saying of true because you're saying it in the moment Chelsea is the same way with this season and it all somehow worse because she gets less screen time than them and is winning challenges and you know is basically a duo with Kellen and I forget that Chelsea is there most of the time which is crazy and she makes it fairly far

40:08 Into the game I think final eight final eight or nine I won't I'm not going to ask you why do you think they did that to Chelsea because we don't know but you brought up earlier like you know sometimes you have to sacrifice certain people's edits because of the story you're trying to tell and I and I absolutely get that but we got Sebastian more than we got Chelsea and I mean Sebastian has Drew chrisy face no he has Alec chrisy face most of the season and everyone knows what I'm talking about Derp Face why couldn't we could spread the wealth a little bit yeah I feel like Chelsea for me is probably in terms of like a character on the season she's probably the biggest question mark I have where I feel like editing her more fixes so much of like the problem of this season like she's winning challenges people are calling her a threat she has Ties on the game she's trying to make things happen and we just we hear from other people like you said and not from her and it just confuses me because like I feel like the editors were struggling so hard to like find other people doing things like that were notable and if obviously we don't know

41:29 But if somebody is like out there doing things trying to make things happen like why would they not give that person like a voice you know like I was saying like if someone's gonna make something happen in the game give them the voice to like make their move like known so I honestly really don't know what went wrong with her you know people might think that she did something bad to production or I don't know because that's the only way you play a decent game and get completely like purpled so I really have no idea what went wrong with her why they felt like she didn't deserve to at least have her perspective shown yeah and you know my guess was she wasn't good T likes CGI Brad maybe like her confessionals what we get I listened CGI Brett he's a legend on his own so like I won't I won't compare them Ryan how do we fix how do we fix this twist you know yeah we agree that it's a good twist how do you fix it I think we have to address kind of the biggest reason why it fell flat and for me that was just the cast and the game that this particular cast decided to play you know especially like on a season that's just so defined by kind of two people just controlling everything and other people are kind of scared to make a move going to ghost Island and not being able to play

42:49 Kind of denying people with the ammunition that they could have to kind of take down the top dogs is really unfortunate and one change and make one let the player decide whether they want to play the game or not because why send them to an island and basically say like you have to go it kind of reminded me like recently in Survivor 46 where Liz and Ben and Bonnie went on the journey and they're like you're gonna do a rock draw one of you is gonna go back to camp and it's like why are you doing this why doing yeah so I think letting the player choose especially when you have written under like it really reinforces The Motto like one bad decision can haunt you forever and when you can't make the decision like what are you really doing with this also I think something that they could have Incorporated I mentioned earlier that I think ghost Island reminded me a lot of like the new era in terms of like people going to the island and kind of playing a game I would have loved to see where maybe they could send one person from each tribe going together to ghost Island and kind of maybe having like a summit similar to the new era I feel like especially on a season that's like so defined by like tribal lines and staying nidi strong and like no we have to stick to our we have to be loyal to our tribe I think having like people from the other tribe at least like interact

44:09 In like a non-tribal setting where they can maybe say like hey like I'll help you out and then maybe we'll connect back at the merge like basically what era if that had happened you know on a season like this I feel like it could have maybe accelerated the gameplay people could have made connections that weren't really as known it just would have kind of like give a jump start to the gameplay by the other cast that really it just didn't have and I will say that I know I sh on this for Game Changers the fact that I don't like when they do more than one swap but I do understand the reasoning behind them doing it with two swaps because you're trying to mix up the game enough that and they do it again this season with the cast of 20 and all that and it doesn't work out that way it does like tribe line L stay the same with the exception of like Laurel tribe lines really stay the same for the most part through both the swaps and into the merch I think that's why navidi strong is such a large it's such a large meme in the Deep Survivor Community it's because they pulled off navidi strong in a season where tribal lines and James says this during the first or second swap where he says we didn't we should be going based off

45:29 Of the connections that we are making with these people and I was like yes you are right you know you don't you don't pick the people that you are start that you start off with you make the connections while you're there but the swaps are made so that you are pulling PE Dom and Wendell did that amazingly with Laurel and vice versa no one else was really trying to do that and James is sitting there saying hey we don't have to do this we could we could find another way and that is frust that is so frustrating to hear him say that knowing full well that's not what's going to happen and we have to watch the rest of this season knowing that's not going to happen and as far as how I would fix the ghost Island twist I would say that it's pretty much what you said like I said I don't think they could do it again because all the twists got reused maybe even having I mean I don't know how much money would cost but like they brought Cochran back for game changers hey you know Eric is gonna sit like on ghost Island Eric's gonna sit with you and say like just talk to you about the game while he gives you this necklace or something like that just make it make it

46:50 More fun make it more fun like one possible like that sounds great in theory but I feel like with that like one possible downside I'm thinking of that like right now is like one it kind of like I feel like it would kind of add to like the so-called like corniness you mentioned earlier with Eric like sitting there and two like it almost becomes like kind of like an island of the idols which I'm so fortunate I do not have to go over that season with you when you do it in three days but you'll see what I mean it's like it's great to see like obviously a former player come back but I like how they did it with Cochran where it was just kind of appeared for a bit we got to see him he gave his advice and then he went on his way and then he's gone having the same person maybe if they brought like multiple players back I don't know well that's what I'm saying yeah like for every Advantage they have that person presented to them say you know just have a segment and then they're gone you know just like that they don't have to live out there live out there but I feel like that would be more appealing then that way when they are showing those flashbacks to the scenes you see the flashback and it's like and now I'm sitting here actually talking to this person all these years later yes it's corny but who cares it's a corny season Jeff even references it in the finale he's like yeah

48:10 I know some people thought it was corny but it's like no it was it is corny the this is a corny concept and sometimes corny can be fun like Pearl islands is a corny concept because oh yeah we're know Pirates and rert is a corny person but like rert becomes compelling because they want us to want him to become compelling corny doesn't always have to be bad but I think in this situation it is it is very bad yeah I agree with what you said about like kind of the Pearl Island situation where it's kind of like they're leaning into this theme a bit but I think like especially like for a new school season where like the theme is like part of the gam playay and they want like this kind of twist to like influence the game when it doesn't really do that it just makes it look worse than it than it would have like I feel like had the twist kind of worked out I feel like maybe some of like the animosity in terms of the cess would have been taken away because it's like well at least like it's impacting the game like it could be a good twist but since it didn't do that all you're left with is just none of the gameplay and all of the corniness and you're like well like why do we really do this okay so I W to I want to touch on the actual the tie itself and how the votes broke down because it's one of these situations

49:31 Where half the jury the first five people in fact vote for Dom and the last five plus Laurel all vote for Wendell like it's very straight down the line and I do feel like because more people got to spend more time with Wendell towards the end of the game where it did seem like Dom was becoming more antagonistic specifically at tribal councils I can see how it split that evenly I obviously understand why Laurel voted for wend in the situation because they were closer the actual tie itself one were you shocked two did you feel like one person actually did outperform the other at finale or did you feel like no this is this is even I get why this went like this yeah so watching the tie when Jeff walks back with the ear and says I'm going read the votes at first like the jury members I didn't believe him and then he pulls it I was like oh my God it's like actually happening and when he pulled out the votes I kind of knew it was going to be a tie because you know obviously before New Era like why else would you do that but I was expecting what I wasn't expecting is you know obviously despite me not maybe not being super high on lurel on her game I thought it was going to be a three-way tie and

50:51 Then I realized it can't be threeway tie because there are 10 people in the jury yeah so what when it was a two-way because like the concept of like having one jur like the last finalist vote for the other two seemed like so like impossible to me that like I was like it can't possibly be and then it was so in terms of like the tie itself I feel like it's so interesting I feel like I touched on this the last time we spoke about this season but it just shows like Dom and Wendell like they're both so different you know like even Wendell mentions it like Dom was like the more bombastic out there big character big moves like the poster guy and L's a more laid-back social guy and I feel like he kind of emphasizes on that I think it just goes to show like the two like big like facets of the game the strategic game and the social game can like quite literally like even up at the final Tribal Council but you know when that's said one jur who's gonna or at least the last finalist is gonna decide I feel like it just shows like a few te so many times which just like the social player is always not always but usually going to win and also like I feel like in terms of Laurel's perspective because she was both with she was close with both of them I think it was just like the power of like

52:11 Just voting for the person who you like more it really just comes down to that because you can argue that like Wendell was more social with other players but in terms of Dominic and Wendell like they both were like forming that relationship with wend I mean with Laurel very early on you can't say like any one like had a better game bond with Laurel but I feel like maybe she just felt a more personal bond with Wendell and I feel like that really just like gave him the edge and I think it's super underrated about Survivor and just voting in general like it really does come down to just kind of voting for who you like more and just maybe kind of justifying that with like some kind of rationale yeah it's and I feel like in it is almost 100% impulsive I mean we don't know how long it took for but you just okay you just sat there and realized you just lost like you are not going to win the entire time you're in attack mode during Tri like final tribal you're trying to prove your game you're trying to refute things that are going on you're not thinking that you have to vote so then all of a sudden you lose and really the only thing you can go on like you said is who do I like more because I probably wasn't really listening to what these two people were saying because I was so stuck on what I need what I needed to say to prove to the jury now my game is done and I just have to make this decision and I do feel like you said

53:31 Because she just liked him more because I do you know I do feel like they did have that connection and Dom brought her to the end you know he didn't make her go to Fire and I want to touch on that in a second but I do feel like you know that is a very rough spot and she says at the in the F reunion that's a very impossible choice to make in that moment and that and it's very similar to how they do the reunions now where they do interviews with these people right after they've lost all these people are thinking is my body is in shock I don't know what to do and I don't know what to say I'm just gonna just say and so that's it's I won't say it's annoying it's compelling it's interesting but I do want to talk I do want to talk about the N thing so Dom gets this the advantage or not really an advantage but he gets to pick what Ern Jeff pulls the votes from and he can pick from three iconic Seasons Australian Outback which I tweeted this out earlier is it's iconic it's for nostalgic reasons but it's iconic because you know it's season two Kagan which is Iconic just because it's iconic and

54:52 Game Changers which happened and he's like oh woo made the worst mistake and in my head I'm like okay I understand Colby making a mistake I understand woo making a mistake I don't understand Brad C pepper like it wasn't like Brad Co Pepper made this alltime blunder by bringing Sarah to the end and I'm crazy that they were trying to make it that way but we get the we get the Kagan n there and at the reunion no after he loses Pro is like oh did you make a billion dollar million dollar take by taking the wrong earn and you know not going to fire with wendle and I forgot about that because we're only two seasons now into the mandatory fir making at final four I didn't re I didn't realize I didn't remember that it is referenced here that it is a strategy to take the necklace off and go to fire against the person next to him and we don't actually see it for two seasons but I think that's great that it's already there as like oh we can do that and I think that I mean spoilers when Chris does Seasons from

56:13 Now that is that is the move that is the move of the season if Natalie does that and winners at War and does it against Tony that is the move of the Season it doesn't happen here and I still think that Dom had a very good chance at winning I don't think that Dom you know oh yeah you have to you have to take out Wendell here because yeah he wins but it's not one of these like alltime blunders because the boat tied it tied it did the day like Wendell does win you know whether you win in a landslide or win with a tie vote I mean if I lost in a tie vote I feel like it would just feel that much worse because it was like what you feel was a blunder on your end though like would you do you feel like this was a blunder on his end I mean obviously it's a mistake but it's I don't see it as an all-time blunder you know just because I mean I don't even know if I would have done the same thing in his position even risking fire like to go out when you have played such an impressive game that's being pretty much acknowledged to your face the whole time like this guy's playing a good game like this is the guy to beat we need to take this guy out I feel like Dominic maybe wasn't anti ipating Wendell's more social game as having a big of an impact as it did at final tribal

57:33 So I mean yes it was a mistake but like you said like this we're just two seasons in and like I don't even know if the ghost island people like knew about this twist because HHH had just filmed like a month before so like they didn't even get to see a season where this twist kind of plays out so like it was like basically new to them and so his idea of like giving away immunity and risking that is like so outlandish especially like on a season like ghost Island where the last guy to give away immunity got blasted off the airlock and he's basically like the face of the Season or basic the face of the Twist and now like even the possibility of you doing the same thing it's like you can't even consider that so I completely understand why like he wouldn't do that but obviously hindsight 2020 and maybe it would have been the better decision to risk that no okay and I can't disagree with that we're going to start to wrap up it's so crazy not having two questions to end this now but I guess I'll give my final thoughts on the season my final thoughts on the season are it's boring it's boring it is it's and I don't know if it's burnout and it could be it could just be burned out but I don't feel

58:53 Like I'm going to feel this way tomorrow with David vers I honestly just think that I was just very bored today with watching it and there's you know there's nothing wrong with that but what are your final thoughts on the season you mean I agree like the game play as it goes on it does get a bit more and more disappointing as the episodes go on and we see people have opportunities to make moves but just don't quite do it however like I said at the very beginning like I'm somebody who can like always kind of see the bigger picture and like just appreciate the things that we do get like it shows one of the most like powerful Duos of all time getting to the end together both with quite literally an equal shot to win a story that is very rarely ever seen and we'll probably never get again so like there is some Merit it does tell a great story and those two people like have their gameplay like completely put on display even at the cost of other people so like I'm at least glad that we did get to see such like strong players have their cases shown so kind of by the time we got to final tribal it was like wow these are two really good contenders and they're going to fight out for the win and like we as viewers know why each of them deserve to win so I it has its faults but

1:00:13 In the end of the day there are still some positives it is technically a historic season so yeah that's very fair I'm going to give go Island a 2.5 out of five I'm going to put it right below Worlds Apart which is insane I have anything and right above Redemption Island so right now it's 33rd out of 36 for me final question and you kind of touched on this earlier a couple people from this season not including the winner that you would want to see back for 50 so number one very obvious Dominic would love to see him back obviously like the closest we have ever had to a winner and unfortunately though I don't know how well he would do being such a big threat that he is so I don't know how well he's gonna do especially now that people like know his game like his game was displayed so well that like people are going to be very wary of him but I would still obviously love to see him I would also love to see Jonathan back if we're going to have someone from the Jonathan Laurel Duo I would like it to be donath because I'm always going to love to see the player who's at least trying to make something happen and I would love to see how he does if he maybe

1:01:33 Gets put in a better position at the start with just the right people who maybe would have you know played a bit harder and I love to see how he kind of works with other people who are more like-minded like him who are saying let's maybe make something happen another player I mean as a character I would love to see Chris Noble come back I don't know how much that is warranted same way with Jacob Derwin would love to see him back I don't know how warranted a return is we have many other better players who I guess are waiting in line to take that spot but yeah I think those are the three that really like stick out in my mind I would have three too I would have Dom obviously I'd have Donathan and I would have Kellen who we didn't even really touch on tonight but like I really liked Kellen this season I think that she was very interesting and I remember the first time watching this season I'm like oh she's villain she's not the villain she's not like she has one moment and she was rightly annoyed after the family visit and that's pretty much it I know she is one of the big nabid strong folks but no I would I would say Dom Donathan and Kellen with h yes honorable mention to Jacob Derwin because if you ever do a pre-merge versus post

1:02:54 Post merge thing I'd throw my hat in for Jacob Derwin almost every day of the week yeah yes Kellen probably would take the Hannah spot that's I won't deny that thank you so much for taking the time to do this it's been like I like you said it's been two years we have you coming back in a few days or is it next week what day next week for 45 yeah okay so yeah for the final week which is crazy that I'm we're getting into it but Ryan thank you so much thank you to the people in the chat for sticking with this especially for ghost Island we will be back tomorrow night for edic no we'll be back tomorrow night for David Goliath and I think that's it so we will see you guys on the other side