Survivor Marquesas Review

0:01 And we are back with day four of Survivor 46 and 46 I just finished watching Survivor mares the reunion is about to start which means Rosie odonnell is about to show up with Colby on a motorcycle it's a lot of fun and only a tad bit awkward but I am joined today one by mcken aini who is one of the hosts of the org dynamic character Productions a game that I have played twice one of my favorite games that I've ever played in the online or live game community and the host of Survivor New York Chris Lord one of my favorite games that I've ever played period one my you know one of two live games that I have played I'm appreciative of y'all coming out to talk about this season in particular because it's at this time around like for the longest time maresas is always kind of always kind of set in the middle to lower high this time around it was it was great even and we're going to get into a lot of it but I always want to say for the longest time I always saw the vote after John Carrol's vote like the from Zoey to the general I was like oh yeah it's just

1:21 Filler because we already know what's GNA happen those episodes are actually a lot of fun from the you know from then until now and so I want to talk about a lot of that so we'll start with the older of the two of you first Chris what was your first I'm sorry oh my goodness okay it's you know what can I can I just tell you something that it's kind of ironic because I wanted to show that Survivor nowadays doesn't do anything as cool as they used to and I randomly found this in a cabinet like recently this is the TV Guide Survivor Africa they had all the contestants get their own little you know magazine to promote the show and my favorite Survivor is Lindsay RoR from season 3 so I had her magazine back in 2001 I got that and I found out about Survivor my cases from a People magazine back in early 2002 so I was I was 10 years old or 11 years old on my journey to this season this was my first season it's still like so important to me in my life and just like knowing that people are rewatching it and like just experiencing it for the first

2:41 Time also is just so cool because it's just such a Monumental moment so many moments in survival history can lead back to this season and so many of the archetypes within this season yes McKenna as the younger of them I'm kidding I had and the more beautiful what was your what was your first experience watching this season I'm assuming you didn't watch it live I did I did not so what was your first experience with the season did you know a lot of the stuff that happened or did you go in fresh no I came in Very Fresh So as some people may know my first introduction with Survivor was through Richard Hatch on The Biggest Loser so that was in the break of Co WR on Millennials versus Gen X so I had a long off seon until I could actually watch Survivor live but I binged everything that was on Hulu at the time and then was got all access and able to watch like the middle Seasons that weren't there but Mar's is like so special to me because a lot of people know I stand Tammy so hard like Tammy is one of my favorite Survivor players

4:02 Because to me she was like the original purple edit like all of a sudden she won immunity for me and I was like where has she been on my screen the entire time and so whenever I watch maresis now I only focus on Tammy and I'm like oh she's here but she's not getting confessionals it's all like Camp life stuff so I'm like a big Tammy fan and wanted to come on to talk Tammy this and it's funny that you say that because this time around I want to less focus on the bigger charact I want to focus Less on the bigger characters and focus on other people having said that I did focus on Sean a lot this time around but Tammy was one of them and I start she started there's a thing that I kept calling the Tammy side ey because Tammy side eyes a lot of people a lot of times during this season both at tribal and during you know Camp life they'll just cut to and she's just looking at people and she's reading them and I don't even know if she has the right reads whatever that means but just the way that she looks at people I'm like I think I love this woman and I think I understand and we'll get into the whole Boston Rob thing people don't worry the one when he says oh there's not much hope there because I have never you know Tammy wasn't

5:22 My crush this season at first I think she might be now she yeah she's amazing for the edit that she does get I would say that the original purple player was probably oh my goodness I just did this two days ago like first one ever you're talking about it's Survivor Outback Nick right Nick Brown Nick Brown yes I was like I just listened to I think MC Brown's the first ever purple character but yes I would say that I would put Tammy in that category and it's funny even before JN gets voted out people are like it's Tammy and John it's Tammy and John and we really don't hear Tammy side of the thing until after JN is gone where she's like oh yeah we got well did you so Chris who were your who was your who were some of your folks on this season McKenna had Tammy I'm sure she has a few more who were your folks you know what like I said Marquez is my first season I love everybody I just want to say on the Tammy note love her final tribal council speech is so intimidating if I was sitting in either of the two spots I would be

6:42 Scared shitless by Tammy's aggress like I don't know if I can say it's aggressive but it's just so intimidating yeah like wow very strong I don't know how the two girls they got put up with that but they did also challenge win is the first time I think in Survivor history that somebody like needed immunity so incredibly bad and she studied those stilts I think I think I read somewhere that she basically hogged them and wouldn't let anybody else use them and it worked in her advantage and she won that immunity but going back to your question Gina actually is one of my all-time Survivor player favorite players along with nalia and Pascal but Gina really just was such an amazing character that we don't see too often on this show and she's like a true pre merge Underdog the original and I also just read this article that she is the most over edited pre-merge survivor in Survivor history in terms of confessionals per episode edits actually no Bono's number two she's number one oh wow she is I just I just saw this video wow like when you said we're going to do Mar I was like damn

8:02 I get to say that little fact about Gina and put some like you know Gina for Survivor 50 let's go seriously yeah that's surprising Dina also I think was like a crush of Jeff probes remember reading in the fors back in the day I want to say I think they dated I heard that like rumor somewhere that they dated but I read that too way back I wouldn't put it past Gina was my crush for the season until Tammy came along this time around I love athletic women what can I say for me my Mar's story for people that know me and it's so funny listening to vpia talking about it you know people sitting in hair salons and barber shops because I was sitting in my mom's hair salon when bpia won and wow I a lot and like yes I understand what it sounds like but it was almost like slavery had ended again because everyone lost their minds when she won like it was it was a big moment and I remember being 11 12 years old and crying about it because I thought it was the craziest thing that I had ever seen and I didn't watch marqueses again until 2020 and watching it in 2020

9:22 I watched it again and you know everyone you know at this point I had entered the Online survivor Community which I didn't know existed and I'm listening I'm hearing all these people say oh yeah kbo you know Kathy and I'm like I don't even remember this woman and then watching marqueses in 2020 and then for 42 and 42 and 2022 and now the seppia is still my person you know and if anything Shawn has actually may have taken her spot as my favorite person on the season because Shawn is the narrator for most of the Season except for maybe the family visit episode where it is mostly Kathy Centric and that makes sense because her son comes to the camp I'm not a Kathy fan and I want to get you all I'm not a fan of two people in particular in this season Kathy is one of them we'll get to the other one in a little bit why first of all are yall fans of Kathy but two why do you think that she has such this large following we'll start with McKenna I don't mind Kathy she's not like I like the vwin and appreciate the V win so I do I think she should have like gone over vpia no because I like the work

10:42 And the grind that vpia had to go through throughout the entire season but I can appreciate Cathy's work and grind because she had to basically flip on her entire Alliance and not just like Pander to them and go along with what they want to say she kind of made her own path and was one of the first to carve her own path in a game where it wasn't tribal line based she aligned with vpia and Shawn and grabbed Pascal and niia to make this new group of five to dominate the rest of the game Chris can I say something about vpia really quick yeah of course okay so I just want to say the vpia wi was very Monumental for me and for a lot of people and I don't think a lot of people understand at the time of vpus when she was the first African-American person to win any major reality television show almost in the entire world so it was like really important and a great representation and then it took all the way until season 42 for another African-American female to win the game so I don't think even vpia was ready for that sort of perception or that sort of like title that she had withheld for so many years because she

12:02 Was like the first she should be in the Guinness World Record books for that she is an icon and I think there needs to be a lot more respect on her name she's done a lot of podcasts talking about how she's been shunned by Jeff propes and CBS and it's very honestly disappointing to see that but on to Kathy so yes at the time of Survivor Mar say I was a fan because Kathy is somebody that was an underdog from the very beginning you saw those first three episodes completely Shun from her tribe if they had lost any of those three challenges she would have been voted out and if anyone's ever been on in a live reality game or in an or being on the bottom and knowing you're on the bottom and knowing that if your team loses at any point and you're going to go home it's a very daunting situation to be in so from Kathy to make it through that first hurdle was like wow this is really cool to see like an underdog survive to like the next phase of the game so she gets into the swap she's not really well-liked by nalia or Pascal but they need her in order to survive because they don't know the situation between Sarah and Gina if they're like friends or not but once Sarah goes home you know Pascal and aah could decide to vote out Kathy if they wanted to but they kind of stay true to ro to and everything like that but come to merge you know Kathy really is controlling the

13:22 Game in a positive way you know I don't really see her as a negative light so much until you get to the Final Four final three maybe and then definitely an allst stars but I'm sure you'll deal with that later Kath Kathy's just like that Underdog Story that almost seemed like impossible for her to get to the end like she kind of like continued the story line for Gina a little bit on a different Spectrum I can't say I love Kathy you know I do like her a lot and exactly how McKenna said she kind of like carved this New Path this and it was like a new sort of era that Survivor had begun with maresas and Cathy was sort of like a big part of that and I will say that I enjoy Kathy and spurts this and it's very hard as a person that is rewatching for the thousandth time to not this has been the main thing for these first four seasons is not thinking about all stars because when you think about all stars and you put you think about Kathy and Allstars it's like all right I really don't like this person but here it's fine I like I and I do love an Underdog Story and I do like her on Ro Ru I think where it starts to become and I think it's one of those her fans annoy me more than she actually where it's like

14:42 Oh man you remember that time that Kathy a flipped on the row to four and it was Kathy this and Kathy that I'm like it wasn't like it was a group yeah if anything Sean went to these people and did this and it was but I don't want to even say it was just Sean it feel like it was a group of people that decided hey we just saw how this challenge went let's do something about it and so from then on it's like okay yeah I'm cool with Kathy's fine blah and even at final five where vpia and Shawn are saying hey you know this whole thing you're in the middle and you know we know what this is about and Kathy's like I haven't thought about the race thing said yeah okay fine and I'm not annoyed that she voted Shawn in that situation I am annoyed that one group of these people and we'll go I guess we'll go to the final five with this one group is straight up saying hey we will never vote against each other being Pascal and niia we will never vote against each other ever the seppia and Shawn yeah they're tight and yeah I don't think they're going to vote against each other but they have at least voted differently I think twice up to this point so there is a paper trail

16:03 Of the two of them not always being on the same side do we think that Kathy made the right decision situation or do you think she was always going to end up in a situation where before she doesn't win and there's a rock draw Chris you know what I always look at the final six vote where Kathy should have made a jump in the game Robert was down and out he had nobody he had nobody and the other it made no sense for the other groups to you know approach him about anything because I think they both in the back of the Mind had Kathy as their third person I think sha and V really were planning to go to the final three with Kathy and mil and Pascal thinking the same thing so if Kathy had went in there and went to the final FL with Rob Shan and V I think it puts her in a really good position where she really isn't the target at all and then if she had went to the final four with Rob n and Pascal I think she also is not in that position where she's the target I think she should have utilized him I don't think that I remember Robert physically was not doing well at that stage in the game as well his shirt at final tribal dress I think that's what Kathy should have done but

17:23 I totally agree with you and what you said about chaav V like they had their own games completely separately than n and Pascal and if she had went to the final four with them even I think Cathy could have still made the final two McKenna yeah I it's tough because I think VPI and sha now that it's the end game I think would not have broken because they're so close they're so close to the end of the game and why break now when Sean might feel that yeah that's true why break now when you know we h both have the same end goal and you think that you can beat the other one in final tribel Council so I think she really is in between a rock and a hard place and in her case of going with what you know might be an easier route to get to the end than going with the people who you don't know because she didn't swap even with them either so I can see why she made her choice but then again using Robert at the six could

18:43 Have benefited her more long term it's the Kim Johnson thing from yesterday where like Kim Johnson is at a few points in the end game where at some point she could have linked up with T Bird and Kim Powers or whatever and done something and there's a we get a lot of confessionals a lot of moments where it's like oh man she might actually do this knowing full well she doesn't do this and I think Kathy's put in the same position where she could do something with Tammy and the general to take out you know but I think at this point the game is still the same the game is still growing you know we have a pagang in season one season two is fluid but it's still the same three people kind of running the show in season three it's much of the same it's the same three to four people running the show with a few little mixes in there and then here is where we get a whole game actually shifted it's not until what like maybe six that things start to actually become fluid it's not like tribal lines actually mean nothing at that point and I think that's where cath Kathy runs into that situation and I do feel like Kath probably beats mostly everyone at the game at the end of the

20:03 Game I do think she beats Pascal I do think she beats niia and it's funny because there's a confessional where someone says n is riding Pascal's coattails and I'm like based off of what I'm seeing it's the other way around like nalia is the one that goes to Pascal consistently in the first two merge episodes say hey maybe we should start thinking about this and no because people like Shawn and V don't deserve to win this game but we won't go there yet but I never saw I never saw nalia writing pasco's coils because I did feel like Shawn and velt of nalia was playing this sweet PE roll to Perfection and I do feel like there are spots where nalia could have beaten certain other folks but not the not the sepia or Kathy I do think she destroys Pascal so we do have a question hypothetically speaking if Sean de seion Jon Rob made the final three wow that's going way back final immunity you think he would have voted out Rob I think he would have voted I think no it would have been vpia there's no way she's got cause she's sweet talking all of Ru

21:23 That's the problem with us going that far back is the fact that there's a lot stuff like do what happens at final N Final 10 then who goes home in that situation do they on John Carroll then and then we go because if that's the case and that's guess we'll go to Bost that's a lot of what ifs with that a lot of what if I guess we'll go to the Boston Rob thing so I understand that and I tweeted about this earlier it's very cool to you for you to either love or hate Boston Rob I have always just been like oh I like Rob's cool you know I'm not he's the best and I'm not like oh he's overrated it's like yeah Rob's cool especially in these first two seasons once again just kind of straying away from Allstars for right now Rob is playing the game he's playing very hard and V out confessional and I forgot about that until today his vote out confessional is what everyone's vot out confessional should be and it's not it's like hey I was playing the game I hope no one takes anything personal I would love to be friends with these people after the game I'm like I love this is what this is this is a game and you can see in this moment Rob is still treating this thing as a game once the game is over and you know you have that thing lifted from you it's like okay yeah I'm

22:43 All right you know my life's not over I did like some of these people I would love to be friends on the flip side of that in the game where he's saying that VPI is an ass kiss I think yeah that's why bpia lasted as long as she did because she was kissing ass until she found so what did you guys think of Boston Rob part one Chris you know it was he's a very fresh breath of air in a way it's kind of like touching a little bit like Richard Hatch level of like a villain and you don't you don't see that in Australia and you really don't see that in Africa so much just someone being so openly villainous and a little bit funny about it and using that their confessionals you know as a gay man I still cringe when he goes up to John and like are you gay and John just goes H let yeah I'm just like oh it with moments like that I just keep saying you know what it's 2001 just like get totally understand like I can I can say that it's 2001 it makes sense and Gabe is right he's young he's messy he flirts with Sarah hooks up with her you know he does the morning show is the goofball he like

24:03 I just remember him like going after Zoe in the merge or calling her a man or something like that and then what did he say about the general he said he's got a he's got a little sausage he says that Zoe's the toughest man on the tribey has a boyriend so there's no hope there and that John's a Big Time queer is I think the phrase he I'm sorry so that's the thing like he's a villain but he's funny about it and he made it iconic I have to say like for 2001 he was great TV and that's what made it good and after watching Australia and Outback and watching Survivor Africa I'm sure you can agree Andrew that he brought something completely different that those seasons did not have in terms of a character in terms of entertainment and that's why he's that's why he probably returned allar yeah I agree I don't know if like is the correct term for Bost Rob 1.0 but he is great on the screen and I feel like whenever we see Boston Rob on subsequent Seasons or even other

25:24 Reality shows I'm always like oh Boston Rob again but then I'm in it and watching this man play and I'm like in glued to the screen enthralled at watching him play and maneuver in social situations so he even had the chops and like the hunter Blind Side at that point in the game was not heard of but he's like he's not my Ally and that's like mindblowing at this point in Survivor history where we're getting rid of a strong challenge competitor you never do that at the tribal phase in ye olden days so like this he's really cultivating a new way to play Survivor yeah facts the fact that Boston Rob has been in reality TV whatever for three decades and he's played in at least one game in three different decades right now at this point I'm pretty sure is a testament to him as a character and yes once again I understand that some people think he's the most overrated person that's ever played I understand people some people think he's the greatest thing that's ever existed I appreciate Boston Rob for everything that he has done for the show including in this season where he

26:44 Is the merge boot like we don't see him again past the merge until all stars and if you're watching it chronologically as I am now it's like okay yeah like he's a fun character but like you know why is he coming back to all and I think you know both of you rais this point of like because we had never actually had like a out andout villain you know season one we had rich but Rich was just one of two people actually playing the game because they didn't know what the game was season two we had Jerry which as I talked about two days ago wasn't really a villain but like whatever she's she was just a mean girl like yeah she was a mean girl it wasn't beef jerky season three I made my point yesterday and if juliia row if you're listening I think that Lex was like the first villain but I also thought he was compelling enough that I understood why he was in Allstars Rob I don't even see as an all andout villain because I am rooting for the underdog in this situation but when they go to rowu and stirring the pot and he's doing all of this it's like okay cool maybe this will work and I think that to start

28:04 Off this entire Point what bit him in the ass and what he should have been paying attention to is oh V VPP is over here kissing ass and VPI I don't trust VPI because of this that the other it's like if you learned from this and realized the and that's that was VPI strategy from beginning to end and she says it so many times during final tribal of I want to make these connections with these people and that's always been my thing and everyone knows I'm a social game person first strategic and physical doesn't matter but strategic second the fact that VPI was able to go in and find herself in a lot of situations where a weaker player may have gotten voted out at a different point as a testament to her game because yes on original maramu she would have been probably on the bottom if things had gone the way of previous seasons on Swap rowu yes they did win what two of the three challenges so they really didn't have to do much there but even going into the merge if Robert shut his mouth they could have possibly gone after V or Shawn first before Rob and I'm not saying that I want Rob to shut his mouth because I do think that the merge episode is actually pretty good from

29:24 Beginning to end because it's starts with him and Kathy flirting and they get to the camp and he's like trying to Buddy up with everyone's like no we're One Tribe now like we're friends let's hug B blah let's go it's like that's so it's so wholesome knowing what Rob actually is and like I said when he gets voted out he takes it so gracefully and that's something that really only like him and Shawn from my him and Shawn take it very well there are some people that don't take it well this season I do say that I felt so horrible for John and his it's like he hoped that he didn't let his mom down and I almost cried I almost cried but I do think this is a good start to the Boston Rob narrative and we'll see how the Boston Rob narrative goes this Sunday and let's go to OG maramu for a bit here the morning show it's one of my favorite it's one of myor what do we is this the first all in out dumpster fire tribe or do we not get that for a couple more seasons is this the or do we not get that until maybe like oong

30:44 No this is a this is wackadoodle time tribe like you have Peter talking about holes like that's one of my big fears in life things with holes in it and he's talking about it right on day one would be my first choice he's a say like the Voting is just so bizarre like that first tribal five Peter two on Sarah one for Patricia it's just like right from the bat like they are just all over the place yeah it is I think one of the first like big just really bad tries yeah and it's funny because looking at the Swap maramu tribe it's like well these people are screwed and they end up winning a fair few challenges on that like at face value swap maramu should be one of the worst tribes of the first four seasons and in reality they win a couple of advantages and they win an immunity like the swap mechanic is just dumb too I mean it granted it's only their second time swapping but like not equaling out the tribes is just maddening to me and I would never wish that a like I feel like the swap Mar AMU

32:04 Were just doomed in that sense not necessarily the people but just that they're so down in numbers that they can't sit anyone out like that's such an advantage to row to and Boston Rob vpia and Sean just got gifted into that yeah where now Pascal niia and Kathy are screwed out of that's such a great Point like know yeah and I so I do I do enjoy maramu for what they were which is a dumpster fire yes but I and it's funny because everyone's like oh yeah you know Hunter Ellis Hunter Ellis Hunter Ellis and in my head there's only been up to this point one God whatever you want to call him Colby that has actually M it that far in a game because in season one I don't think was actually looking at Wigglesworth as a goddess until she until she kept on winning no one was looking at her as the challenge threat of that season I feel like they probably looking at like maybe Jervis or Joel or somebody else like that in season two Greg yeah season two yes Colby makes it to the end fine he can have it season three they get rid of Clarence not Clarence yeah get rid of Cl

33:25 They get rid of Clarence at the merge and here so when everyone's like oh man people like that always make to the end it's like there's really not much context because they haven't even seen Africa so they have no context except for Colby to say hey this person always makes it to the end having said that I do think it was a good move in that situation to do that because we know that hey we're probably going to merge at 10 best case scenario we win one of the next three challenges in which case we get rid of Gina and we get rid of sha or V probably sha or V or maybe Sarah may maybe we can convince them to get rid of Sarah I don't think it's a horrible strategy it's just that when you hit the merge what do you expect to happen based off of what you have seen on TV up to this point and that's the thing with a lot of these early seasons is you only have a small sample size to go off of and the other thing with these early Seasons I call this the part three of the trilogy of Seasons where Survivor tried to kill their players because Australian Outback you know we know what happened there Africa hey look they're Lions don't worry about it here they don't get a lot of the stuff that they had gotten in

34:45 The first three seasons you have these bugs that are killing everyone knows and they these people are like the fact that the General in my head the general and John's clothing partic specifically in my head during final tribal are just hanging off of their bodies because they've lost so much weight this is still the part of the of Survivor history where I think the Survivor producers thought hey people want to see them surviving they don't want to see the strategy stuff and we see that because they never really have strategy time it's like challenge ends there's like a montage and then they go to tribal when do you guys think that switch kind of got went off and Productions head of hey maybe people actually enjoy this for the social strategic aspect of it either one of you guys can go first I mean I feel like it flip-flops a little bit because like Thailand we have that giant cave right and there's no and they're on a beach they're nice but then we get thrown into the Amazonian jungle where there's crocodiles and we have Guatemala where you have the billion mile hike in the woods and everyone's dying so I feel like it just depends on a not what non Beach location are you at it's

36:05 Really funny because like Gabe just said in the chat I was researching to Mar's things yeah so because of September 11 they've had to shift the location of Survivor maresis to the island of Polynesia but it was supposed to be in the Middle East and it could you imagine Survivor if it had been if we had never went back to a beach until season 7 like it we would have had Australian Outback Africa Jordan then Thailand Amazon doesn't really count because he can't swim in the river there's you know yeah crocodiles and anacondas in there so and also if you look at the challenges from this season you oh don't worry we're getting to the challenges yeah the production were so last minute like there's some really basic like pick up a rock and take it to the beach type moment it's very are you telling me the kite challenge isn't iconic it's I it is Iconic because people remember it but it's not iconic in the fact that people enjoy it exactly they were just we need something quick somebody think of something let's open a whole bunch of coconuts and see who gets the mostr I'm glad you brought that up because in this I love lrgs I love them they're amazing a lot of these challenges this season I felt like

37:25 Okay this is something that you would see and an LRG and that's not a knock on LRG please do a challenge you I will I will definitely do it if you because of because it's quaint and quick like you don't you don't have to spend a lot of time to say hey for this challenge it's you know the kite challenge is the only one coming to mind at this point oh the one where they have to fill the water so it gets to the top one that sent Pas yes that was very there's so many basic ones even I that's right you're right the still one look at the trial counil look at the oh yeah true look at the tribal council though it is probably the worst Tribal Council in Survivor history it is just because the jury sits behind them is it think about every aspect of the tribal council the way it looks even the voting booth everything is so incredibly basic if you guys first one with a roof though true but I'm a big like Survivor prop collector and I research the Torches it is the worst and ugliest torch in Survivor history even season one is not that bad it is so basic so they really just threw this together last

38:46 Minute yeah and I do think that the challenge is what is What Hurts the season if that means anything what helps it is the fact that a lot of the reward challenges are a lot of fun like the actual reward aspect of the challenges are a lot of fun they lead I think what helps the season is Once John goes and there is that what some people including myself until today have called the lull the rewards themselves have made the episode we have Pascal and sha you know bonding and you know them saying Oh yes I don't think I would ever made friends with a white judge from Georgia or a black kid from New York we have that and then we get the Pascal nalia boat trip the Pascal nalia Boat Trip where neither one of them drink and I felt for Kathy in that moment because yes I would have taken advantage of the alcohol as well would take my menw would you take that is my favorite sh moment of all time is it's like hey do you want to eat this piece of doooo like that's no I have to ask this question for real guys like you're on the island it's day 25 someone comes back to camp and is like do you want this mint from my mouth do you say yes or no nope I would do it I would do it I'm so happy to

40:06 Hear that Chris spit it out niia well he was so passive aggressive when he was like no but we also brought food from our yeah from our reward n nah just goes oh well I have this m my favorite Survivor moments you know what it's like she actually really did mean it from the heart and it was very she's 21 years old Mor mind Mormon and Mormon yeah it's just like oh I this is all I have you want it or not yeah I think it came from a good place and the fact that she wouldn't shut up about it and all of Shan's confessionals is that episode and you know I think she tries to give to Tammy first Tammy or reppi or somebody first I'm like no thank you sweetie like yeah also on the reward with Pascal Sean is riding I think it was a donkey and he's like balls when he says he says oh you're beautiful you're too young for me and I'm like way to go Sean way to have morals unlike Pascal so we're gonna get to Pascal and neyah now oh god

41:27 Oh okay said you said it on Australian Outback Poor Man's Roger and Elizabeth yes I feel like they were trying to do they were trying to do these archetypes in these early parts and it's like we have Pascal nalia and I understand you know the whole offscreen thing of nalia and Gabe and Pascal has his fatherson thing and it's fine whatever what we see on camera is this past it's never it's never worked for me because it always before I even knew about Pascal's doings off Beach it's always just kind of rubbed me the wrong way because it always came off as this band is in love in a nonf fatherdaughter way and so any interaction that they have is just like I don't I don't like this I don't like this at all and then when his wife comes and he's sitting there saying I love my wife so much blah I'm like oh do you what Chris because you did say that these two were a couple of your favorites in the season what about them did it did it for you I could phrase it better butas that okay so for me it was just like

42:47 You have to think about it I'm watching the show I'm 11 years old I'm young so I'm going to relate to somebody that's young so nilia is the youngest and she's one of the youngest Survivor players at that time to compete on the show 21 like yeah freshly turned and it's like okay I relate to someone closer to my age and then she's has this really strong relationship with this man that's seemingly like a father figure obviously looking at the perspective of as a 33y old it's so different now because it seems a little predatory in some way especially since past school had to resign as a judge because he had a relationship with one of the lawyers and cheated on his wife it's tough because I see it in a much different light now but at the time it seemed very innocent it seems sweet and it like you said it is the poor man's Roger and Elizabeth and I was such a huge fan of that duo and it's a great archetype and they sort of ran the game together in a way that you kind of see in Survivor in the earlier days but it and they were successful keep kind of go I didn't realize that Thailand had already started I guess I thought I saw Rob back there

44:10 With yeah Rob two be I Echo a lot of that where like my first watch of maresis I was just like okay you know we're trying to bring back this relationship and it's just not doing anything for me it wasn't bringing back the same feels where you know Roger was like vote me out first save Elizabeth and it just like felt very like father daughter and this on upon like another watch and another watch I'm like this feels weird it doesn't it doesn't like give me the warm and fuzzies that Roger and Elizabeth give me so you know that's when I like turned my focus on like some other characters that might be in the scene or something like that what's going on in the background of where they're talking and you know kind of gloss over them a bit yeah and I so I mean I love this cast this cast is very underrated the season is very underrated and I understand that everyone kind of plays the plays their part and as a black

45:30 Hearing Pascal say things like sha and if someone like sha and V made it to the end and this like and I think that along with the accent has always just in my head it's like man I don't like this guy so everything that he does is always going to be negative in my head yeah having said that his moments his three four episode story are where him and Shawn are best buds I do love it because I do feel like they had you know a good bond with each other and as we move as we move into final three because this is where the kvo stands really start to come out it Kathy wasn't robbed she got tricked by a 21 yearold to say hey fix your shirt I don't even know if deleted it on purpose but in my head she did hey fix your shirt Kathy goes fix it she screws up V you know says Hey going into final tribal for both before we talk about what actually happened who did y'all think had the better chance going in 100% fresh 100% vpia

46:50 I'm like how the heck is niia winning this she might get the old she might get some people's votes in Pascal or maybe John Caroll if he's like bitter or something but I was like she's not gonna be able to pitch herself Chris I have to disagree at the time I remember being in like the CBS Survivor chat room on this is back on the website they would have it every night after the episode and everybody would just say like Nalia's winning this game or C well Cathy is winning this game really or nalia blah those are the top two always every week and I just remember thinking okay vpia doesn't have the longevity of the relationship in the way that nalia does but when you watch that final Tribal Council okay I'm 33 I'm still not at the age of a sepia play Survivor she was 36 when she won nalia is 21 years old she does not have the sort of experience and the knowledge and the way to present herself the way that vpia did the way that she talked and explained her game and I think nellia was very nervous she stumbled many times and she self- admittedly said that her game was based on luck and that she didn't start

48:11 Playing the game until day 24 and I think fppi at that moment knew that she was able to clutch in the wi and say that she played the game all along where it makes it looked like she had put in more effort through the long run I do think in some way you know John Tammy and Robert were bitter they have they have come out and said on certain podcasts and articles that they regret their jury votes and wish they had voted for niia years later I don't know how much that is true but that was based on bitterness from what they what they said I do think going into it nalia but after seeing the performance for sure vpia yeah I mean I think when the seasons that were on Hulu were went from like 1 to 10 and through to like late 20s or something like that so I had already seen a lot of like Survivor and Survivor strategy before going into maresis so like I didn't come a new brain I was like seeing the show before I got to this season so like I can understand why you know a lot of people are rooting on like nilia or Kathy over V because they don't see

49:31 Like the underlying strategy because as survivors evolved we've gotten more into like deep strategy and critical thinking throughout the entire thing it's so interesting you say that mcken because it's so cool to see people like watching later seasons and then going back because there's so many different ways to be a Survivor fan and how you watch it so that's why really think these rewatches are so cool that you're doing Andrew because it's like you're getting New Perspectives on each season and it's always evolving and it's like I've started from the very beginning have worked way up to this and then somebody could be starting from 45 and then you know just kind of bounce around and like you said you're you started with the strong evolutionary part of like strategic things matter most but that early stage was really about relationships and not pissing people off yeah and the fact that thei won this jury specifically where most of these people are OG Ru and they still give her the win and if you look at the three that Goen Aaliyah Pascal's always gonna vote in N Liam fine Kathy I don't know what her

50:51 Issue was with how that answered her question but like whatever once we get to all Star once again all star but whatever she's sitting there saying oh yeah I was robbed I was robbed and mares like you weren't robbed you lost you lost and I think that Zoe is crazy I don't I still don't get how why Zoe voted for nalia but like cool why does Zoe flirt with Jeff and weirdly eat a Snickers out of his hand like why does Zoe why do Zoe so fun fact Chris has actually met Zoe I have met Zoe and she actually cracked my Lobster because I didn't know how to do it she was sitting next to me she like for you and she's like picking out the meat she like here you go and I ate I ate the meat from a lobster that she had in her on her fingers but she's very nice you could give it back to her what she did to Jeff all those years ago yeah funny she's so odd I have to like find that picture she like telling Tammy like oh yeah I actually never liked you and this that is so funny that is so funny so cringe it's so cringe she's very underrated

52:11 Character in this season but you know what I'm always confused about is why did she vote in the final nine for John like did she get clude in iath they told her and said to just vote that way and then the next round they vote for her so was like why did they clue her in then to just turn on her or is because they felt like Rob was just weaker but then he wins immunity after that listen Zoe's not friends with anybody remember she's not friends with Tammy she's not friends with the general she's not friends with John there's no Alliance so I compare to Brandon's vote in Africa where they get Brandon to vote Kelly and it's like okay now we can't trust Brandon at all because he's already shown that he's disloyal so I think in this situation I think that because we're told that Kathy and Zoe are actually pretty tight I think Kathy may have clued Zoe in on the vote Zoe votes that way Tammy wins immunity they don't vote the general because at this point yeah he is looking weak and so then Shawn and all these people are like okay yeah I don't think we can trust Zoe let's go after her next and then we'll go boom Tammy boom General that's the way I perceived it this time around what did you think about the little confrontation that Rob Zoe and Kathy

53:32 Had at the merge though I thought I always find that another thing like Rob so crazy if Rob had just at the summit with Kathy had just told her how everything had been and then go to the new maramu beach and say hey let's go like we're all a team now and we go if he had just not tried to stir up a lot of stuff I think they could have potentially flipped a vote somewhere but because he went and tried to show Kathy hey look like this is what's happening if because Kathy was smitten Kathy from what we're seeing Kathy was smitten with everything that Rob was doing with her at the summon and if he had just stayed in that role going into the merge I think she would have bought a lot of the stuff that Rob was still selling but because he started that confrontation and then it started to get out that Rob had leaked what Sha's plan was or not sea Jon's plan was of going Kathy Pascal neia and then we move on I think that's what ultimately screws him in the end because he was trying to do too much if he just taken a backseat a little bit I do think that he could have made it past this round McKenna yeah I agree I think

54:52 If you just got to at the merge I feel like it's such a hectic time already someone else is going to step like put their own foot in their mouth so like take a step back try and gain the numbers with Kathy because you just formed a bond and like try and move forward that way but he might not have been the number one target where we know Boston Rob he can move and shake so if he just lets that first merge vote go by and then try and do something afterwards maybe we can see something switch here where he's in the Cathy position of Pascal Mia Shan V yeah like I said earlier I think this is a great Rob 1.0 I if I had to rank all of my robs would be like are you including island of the idols or no I'm only including those the five Seasons that he played but because he doesn't overstay his welcome this season and because of the way like his ex I don't know how I didn't remember that but his when he gets voted out his vote out confessional is so wholesome it's like yeah

56:12 This was a game and I hope that I can be friends with these people and it's so funny hearing that because when we go into all stars and I hate that all star keeps coming up but going to All Stars and he's sitting there at that tribal and he realizes that all of these people that he has made friends with throughout the years are now pissed off at him because he played the game I feel for him even I feel for him even more because it's like wow this man was actually you know this man was just playing a game and these people especially in Allstar were just so upset that their friend voted them out for the people in the org and LRG Community it's there's a thing called friend vior yeah and friend vior is basically you go into a game and you only play with your friends and Everyone is always sus of it so no one ever tells oh I know this person or I know this person I think that people went into Allstars thinking they were going to be playing friend viver Rob didn't think he's playing friend vior and we see how that turned out that's a story for another day overall so the last two questions that we always end this with are one by my account we have had one person back from this season

57:32 Two one were they the right people before we move on were they the right people to come back from the season in the seasons that they came back for I think so I think Rob coming back for All Stars if he doesn't come back there I don't think we see him anywhere else I think he needs all stars to be able to be who he is Boston Rob and then here's versus Villains duh and then Redemption Island was called out at the Heroes versus Villains finale and wi winners at War and winners at War Chris I think the two of them were correct for sure I think vpia should have been back for winners at War especially in terms of like a diversity aspect it was much needed like espe over I'm sorry over Danny Bool right like it didn't make sense and you know what Shan Rector I have seen so many people and so I've listened so many podcasts of people saying why has he not been back yet why you know it he's still talked about the St probably what the biggest character of yes Thomas hit the nail on the head actually you know I also seen neia has been posting a lot about like she

58:52 Would go back but I remember the very early days when they were discussing all stars and like the drafts and like Ken from Thailand was close Penny from Thailand was close I remember Shawn was also very close I don't know what happened there may have been things that happened to them personally that made them you know not able to compete and that's why Rob was able to compete yeah and I would say that piggybacking of what y all said I do think that Rob this based off of what he said tonight I do think that Rob earned his spot for All Stars sadly I do think that Kathy earned her spot for all stars I do think that Shawn is someone that absolutely should have been there Tammy yeah they could have brought her back at some point between four and 16 like I think she should have been in there vpia yeah I'll always say it's CRI that she wasn't at Leisa winners at war I've heard the rumor in IND window is that she was looked at as like maybe a villain to put on heroes or villains which is dumb but also Sandra is a villain on there and cand some rumors of Game Changers too yeah like I've heard a lot of that it's like okay if she's still saying that they don't have a good relationship I'm gonna

1:00:12 Buy that other than you know them saying Oh yeah we thought about it I will say that I do think that John Carroll should have been on all star more than more than Rob and maybe less than Kathy I think John Carroll should have been there and I do feel like if he is there you know obviously if he's there then Boston Rob probably is never a thing like he's probably just this oneoff character that everyone kind of loves to go back and watch I don't know what that does for John Carroll moving forward but I do think that John Carroll was because he was the his little Sermon on the Mount thing where he's like laying in the tree talking about how Leah is and Pascal like really rooting for him to win it's like yes that's such that's the right type of arrogance to have as a villain that's a fun villain confessional to have and his downfall is a lot of fun and I think that his jur I mean his jury speech there are a lot of bitter jury speeches in this season John's is this very straight to the point like hey don't feed me this religious mumbo jumbo because y'all have both claimed oh yeah God and this and the other I do think that Jon was such a compel compelling character on the season that I'm shocked that I had to watch

1:01:32 What the sequester mini that they did in 2020 to see John Carroll play again which is insane the second question is once again I'm gonna say this every season until we get to 33 I don't think that anyone pre-33 is going to be on season 50 but if there were from this season is there anyone from this season that has either come back already or has come back is there anyone from the season that you were like dying to see play on season 50 because I would say John Carol my answer will always be Tammy but will she no I'm pretty sure she's very much done with Survivor I listened to her rap interview and she's like wow that's still going basically and by the way her book is intense so if you're looking for a good intense read listen to her book but I feel like I'm not missing anything if nobody returns I just don't think they're go going to put vpia on at this point no so which is a shame I agree with McKenna there honestly even nah at this point is 41 years old looking at how Survivor has been casting there's less and less people in their 40s

1:02:53 It's majoritively 20s and early 30s it I don't think they want to see a lot of older people play and especially I hate to say it Jeff has said that he doesn't really like maresas and he hated the location yeah so it's not as memorable as other ones if anybody who's gonna come back to Mar from maresas it would be Boston Rob yeah but it's not it's definitely not happening thank God I think I would lose my mind like if he came back I think because Shan has such a large line following if there would be someone that I feel like fans could convince production to do I think it would be Sean and I would love it like I would love Shawn Rector to come back it's not going to happen because I don't think that anyone pre-33 is coming back but yeah I would say Sean and John all great all great I listen I know Tammy's not doing anything but my is strong so I'm I am obligated to say it but like these would all be great but just what are the odds of it we're 20 we're 20 plus years ago at this point so far I have done

1:04:14 Borneo right now it's Borneo Africa Australian Outback which is still such a shock to me to even say that out loud maresis I'm going to give a 4.25 out of five I really love this season even the parts where I thought that it dragged or in the past did not drag this time I think there was a very compelling story arc at the beginning of the game I think there's a very compelling story arc at the merge and I think that yes even though it is boom in the between then and A Tale of Two Cities When A Tale of Two Cities happens and we get that final five and that Tribal Council is one of the first long tribals that we ever get in the show's history like that traval actually goes on for a while before Shawn you know eventually goes we didn't even touch on the fact that we got our first rock draw in this season and PAs fall there yeah I hope Pascal stays there forever because I'm Not A Pas but I give it 4.25 what do you guys think Chris you want I think it's fair I think that's a very fair there's some things that could have definitely improved like for me I looked at the challenges if the challenges were maybe like surviv Thailand

1:05:34 Or Amazon level I think it would have been like a 4.5 but the characters were all great I mean so great and the first big move in survival history it deserves at least the 4.2 I have it me and my fiance are current ly doing our rewatch and we out of 25 Seasons because we're on caramon right now we have it ranked at 12th so like right in the middle but maresis is one of those ones that I always like it's a comfy place for me it's like one that I could be like you know what I want to watch some old school survivor let me put on mares like it's not you know one of the common ones to be like oh yes this is you know one that I love so like I is it a perfect season no but like a 4.5 is kind of where you know I live with things for this season I think okay I'm it's probably higher than most but like there are just certain Seasons where I'm like yes like can I ask you a question about your little ranking with Carrie is what would be

1:06:54 What's like right before more cases for you guys and like what's right after okay now this is with Carrie so her opinions are involved Philippines is above marus which is not my forte but she I think liked it a little bit more and then underneath marqueses is Africa okay yeah I that is because right now through four and I'll get to that question in a second through four it goes Borneo marquez's Africa Australian Outback Thomas I will ask I will answer this question on what Saturday Sunday when is PE Islands Pearl Island would be Saturday I'll answer this question Saturday night I have a feeling that maresis will probably be fourth of the first seven but we'll see I for all I know I'll love Thailand tomorrow no you it but yeah I am not looking forward to starting that tonight have fun oh my goodness but you know Chris McKenna thank you guys so much McKennon when we be seeing you guys or when will we be seeing you next Panama and cook Island so get ready double trouble so that's those are both next week I think those are both next week and Chris we're

1:08:14 Having back at least one more time Ryan yes probably for One World for One World yes so we got I think that's like mid June at this point it's like mid June thank you both so much for taking I'm I know that it was a little later in the day life finally did catch up to me today so I'm hoping to get back on schedule for Thailand going into tomorrow I have to knock out maybe three episodes of Thailand tonight to like be on schedule I'm so looking forward to that because I think the gandia episode happens in episode three four oh God so thank you all for tuning in everyone in the chat thank you so much this has been a great start to all of this I love mares and we will see you all on the other side