The Challenge 40: Episode 10 Discussion

0:12 [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the nullify take Channel on YouTube where we've got the TNT takes for you on the challenge episode 10 that is right we are back after a week of flu or you know not feeling well and still kind of recovering we're back we're going to talk about this week's challenge action and just before we went live I said to Kahuna I actually feel pretty good about the episode at least if I'm going to do a podcast where I'm not 100% you know at least I need to talk about an episode where I had fun and I thought this was a fun episode what was your thoughts overall yeah man first of all I'm glad you're here I'm sad that you're not

1:32 Feeling better here but you can still hear it a little bit in your voice so I hope the listeners and the audience are glad that you're sticking through it man you got the putting up with the hard times just to entertain the crowd I got the throes like I'm ready to go like we're gonna we're gonna get through this but it was a good episode right because we like so often we don't get to see the heavy weights in the game go after other anymore and that's one of the things I think that have frustrated challenge fans in recent seasons is the fact that you don't get to see heavy weights take each other on but this season there are so many heavyweights in the game and it's actually quite entertaining to see banana SC up against the house and be in a position where he has to fight and seeing Tori make the shot like you know she isn't known for taking these kind of shots I feel like she always takes the safe route where she can play that game she's friends with everyone almost like you know how she's upset about Josh being friends with everyone this season that's normally tor's game she's not playing that game this season she's not playing a scared game she's taking shots Tori looked good this episode didn't she like I you know I've always been a Tory deal fan but I really felt like we even got a line in this episode which I

2:52 Thought was so Monumental that Cara talking to and basically said you Cara Maria 2.0 and to see like this what people have been saying for a few years now that Tori is kind of the new Caro the new F they're trying to force her upon us as the face of the challenge and I feel like in this episode she kind of stepped into that power a little bit and it was a very coincidental thing that it happened to be because Devon wasn't there anymore and that was interesting to me because de like she's so closely tied with Deon their best mates Dave and Dave and blah they're obviously very friends they're but they're also in Alliance and work well together but it has played out that Devon does kind of take a little bit more of a upper hand in their relationship Tori does defer to him so much and with good reason Devon is good at this game strategic yeah he is very good at this game and to see her kind of stepping into her own power and knowing look I've been good at this game for long time I get far because of my alliances I go to the finals I've won once now she's actually trying to control things and actually rather than just you know being in the safety of an alliance but actually try to take shots like you said she doesn't do that and it's pretty amazing to see especially in the back of like

4:12 On this season this is the season 40 where we're kind of I hate to admit it I don't know if you're picking up on an a Chris as well or maybe it's just my age or whatever it is but seeing bananas you said fighting but struggling but not just the fight but also like he seems to have lost a lot of his Aura like his power his within the game it's I just think I think it's a case of I think it's a case of everybody wants to see the king fall like you know there's that whole thing there's that not that he's a hero but there's the saying out there that people say when a Heroes when a hero Falls the cowards Rejoice right and I kind of feel like he is at the top like if you're going to take you're going into season 40 it's a big season they're doing what people in it they went after the big ones right off the gate the only person that they forgot about was Tony and I feel like you know compare Survivor to Survivor season 40 to The Challenge season 40 Tony is actually Jordan in this scenario because somehow Jordan is getting away scotf free people are looking at bananas as this big threat in a final and it's like well Jordan is just as capable of as bananas he's got more friends in the game than bananas this season and about eight or n years younger than him

5:32 Like he's way bigger threat than what bananas is and in some ways I'm kind of like you said that and I do I don't want to start off with a bad point but I with Tor because I actually for the most part I am fighting and I know our fans that listen to the show I hate actually saying fans listeners of the show people that are fans of the challenge right they're not the biggest T stands there's not many stands out there and I've always been of that belief as well I've always said Tori is forced on us and I don't like her but it's kind of like when you see pundits talk and Sport and they see a rookie and they keep saying this rookie can be great this rookie can be great and you're like they're never going to be Michael Jordan they're never going to be LeBron James like they're never going to be that state and then suddenly they have a season where you're like the penny drops and you're like aha that's what the pundits have been talking about and I feel like tor's having that season like even for me like I've never been a hater cuz just don't understand why people hate I just don't get it that's just not in me but I've not been a fan of hers either and this season like I mean you know I'm a big Cara Maria fan she beat Cara Maria for the second time like we firstly saw her and I know a lot of fans like lovable Nicki is definitely going to be in the comments afterwards trying to like have a go at us for this but she held back both

6:53 Karia and Laurel in a previous daily with some other women which she was standing her own we gave her prop that this episode she outright beat all of them outright beat karia who is a CrossFit Beast right she beat her to the puzzle it wasn't even like people could say well karia is maybe not as good at the puzzle karia wasn't even at the puzzle when Tori finished the puzzle right so she outright beat her in the in the physical side of it and you know you've got to give credit words do you like but I do still see a flaw in her game if we're going to be critical and that flaw is Jordan does not give a crap like he is using Tori at the moment as a tool in this game as a as a shield like he was doing in this episode where he's like I'm just going to put all the blame on Tori if Tori makes this move you know I'm going to be sitting pretty because like clearly no one can control Tori and I thought you know it was an interesting strategy that he was using and I was kind of I don't know I was kind of like seeing what like you know she's lost Deon in the game somebody that maybe controls her vote sometimes but I feel like Jordan's kind of stepped in somewhat taken that role did you see it that way as well were you surprised to see Jordan because Jordan and Tori they kind of care for each other but he's like she could be collateral damage I'm all good with it yeah I think Jordan's a ultimately

8:14 I think he's a pretty loyal dude if you have that agreement in place like he's said that multiple times like once I say it I'm doing it and he's a pretty he's pretty good that way but he's also the ultimate competitor and if you know he's not engaged to her anymore they're ex's yes they still have a very you know special place in their heart for each other because that's life right but it's not going to stop him from getting $500,000 or what is it$ 250 like it's a million dollars isn't it this season it's a million dollars I feel like it's half a m each 500 oh is it just one person winning is it one person winning or two people winning is it male and female no I think it's actually I don't know what they said at the I assume male female I don't think it's one because if it was one I would have remembered and be annoyed but yeah I do think that Jordan wanted that anyway and he's saying oh I'm gonna he's giving good TV right he knows what to say to make it look like he's But ultimately I think Tori was going that way regardless right like she was making that decision and Jordan got to tag on to it and go yeah I get to like you know be the shield but I think if he didn't he wasn't trying to get her to go either way and I don't

9:34 Think she was going to go either way and Jordan convinced her to do bananas she was doing that anyway right yeah no I agree I think she was always going to take the shot in this moment but I still like the position he's put himself in one thing though about Jordan's growth as a human being has been good for him as a person I think we are seeing it this season like for instance when bananas came atam said hey at some stage you're going to have to make a you know a play you can't be doing X Y and Z he was just like okay I'm going to let bananas have his moment bananas can't Target me directly I'm not going to blow out him blow up at him but if you think about Jordan from like a couple of years ago like even like maybe three four years ago he would have blown back up at bananas this would have been a big deal and I feel like even him saying like I'm not a part of the drama this is why I stay out of the drama he's like taking this High ground it's good for him as a human being but it's kind of taken away a little bit from him as a as a entertaining TV character you AG with that he's boring like I feel like he still says cool stuff at the camera but there's times where I'm just like he's not bringing like any extra drama that's why you know Jordan is to blame that we have Josh because they're like we need to balance Jordan out because he's so Bland now that we need Josh there to create the drama you see what I'm saying so when people get angry at Josh being there

10:54 They should also be getting angry at Jordan I feel like Jordan you let us down and now we have Josh that's what it is am I picking a fight with all the challenge fans like I feel like all the challenge fans are going to come at this podcast now and say how dare you call him out how dare you but again like I thought bananas being the showman that he is going into this I loved it I absolutely ate it up like him going into the deliberation I don't think anybody this season has owned the deliberation like he did like yes he's not been getting a lot of content prior to this episode but then going into that deliberation and just being straight at them saying hey put me in I'm not scared like throw me in like I'm a bloody good competitor like I have got the seven rings for a reason you throw me in I'm coming back and I'm taking a shot straight back at you obviously a big aha moment when you couldn't but still the way that he played all of that I thought it was perfect like it was it made for great TV and this is why as long as Banas delivers this kind of magic when he's on the show like I think at some point we were like do we still need him like maybe he's retiring maybe he's gone like if he's still throwing hakers like that when he's on his back I vote for yes I vote still to see bananas Sur I like it yeah

12:14 I'm with you I think this is what show this shows what how bananas is so good is because I was watching it and I genuinely 100% believe there's zero chance banana talks that bananas talks that way if Ryan wasn't sitting across from him yeah it's possible you know what I mean like yeah like I think he played it right I've said this to you so many times this is my belief on the challenge people like you got to throw Jordan in early get rid of them blah and like you throw a Jordan in you throw a bananas in you throw a CT in not this season but generally like the odds are in their favor that they're going to come back and make life difficult for you take that shot early there's a chance they come back and do things to like Jordan wisely said I thought it was really smart that he was like the women pick the men there's nothing bananas can actually to me yeah really smile he's like the format of this game but bananas only took that TCT because he knew I can confidently say and even if I don't feel as confident I have it has to at least put a question in Tori and Jordan's mind I will beat Ryan like you know I will beat Ryan and that's why I can talk that way I'm coming back into the house if it was someone else across there if it was a if it was a Jordan

13:34 Across the room I don't think bananas is talking as confidently in taking that TCT oh depend obviously you' you've got to play the field that's in front of you and I thought that brilliantly which is what so brilliant about right that he did play the person in front of him he knew that Ryan was sitting in front and he played that as the thing even we're giving and even though we're giving credit to Tori like I said she's moving up in my estimation she's starting to prove that she's and good morning to Hollis who's just jumped in as well morning again welcome to the show even though Tori is stepping up and she is becoming I think a leading woman of the show like she's up there now and she's trying to prove herself with the great she's still humble and has respect that I'm trying to achieve that calling out Laurel and Kary as two of the goats interestingly enough leaving Rachel out which I think Rachel's been having a pretty good season as well but you know I think one of the things for me is I think Tori is still not great strategically like I said Jordan kind of you know letting her make these moves kind of sinking herself and then the second part of this is if you're going to throw bananas in I know she had a certain type of loyalty to the people that she was with her era but who should she have thrown in there like I feel like you throw you throw like a kyin

14:55 In there you throw like maybe I don't know she wouldn't have thrown Josh in there Theo or something like that like you want to have Beast SC against banana and she picks like the two guys that is by far the weakest out of all of them and Derek and Ryan like I just don't see Ryan and Derek is Derek again great at running great at doing the stuff I'm telling you now Derek even in a elimination against beras I would have not back them at all like these are not proven challenges these are not like the top of the crop right you need to put people in there where you're like oh maybe we're going to be sending them home who Tori yeah Tori like she needed to put people in next to bananas that he actually could have gone home to like I said like a kand or Target at the end as because she had the choice right she chose the targets did she did she win that no Rachel did ah Rachel did you're right you're right yeah it's the winner of the of the elimination Tori yeah so Rachel won the elimination and then chose the targets right sorry blank moment there yeah she chose the targets I thought yeah no but Tor Tori did sorry now I'm confus you're confusing me Tori beat

16:15 Casey and when she beat Casey she had the choice of who she wanted to throw and then she throw threw a hail marry back at bananas at that point right because she beat Casey in the elimination in the previous round so it was Tori sorry yeah oh was it Tori okay I might be wrong there I apologize she beat case really bad decision yeah like I said she beat Casey and had the choice and threw them in oh of course what am I saying Rachel yeah what am I saying we did talk about last week's episod yeah that was the whole thing with I also did appreciate that Tori was like saying it's a difficult balance because as much as I'm like I like when they play strategy I like when they play the game I did appreciate and I don't know how much I respect it as far as gameplay goes but I did appreciate that she went look I was there last week when I had to fight Casey I don't want Derek to go against Ryan like she put she knows what that's like she also said I'm trying to be AIT that I really just don't care for like Ryan or Derek I'm like whatever like yeah I don't either I don't either to beon guys like I'm sorry I like knows what it's like so she didn't want

17:35 To do that to someone else and then she also I do think it was a bad choice strategically because like you said they were the obviously not the best people to put down there with bananas and then to actually again double down on it by not just picking them as a targets but then putting bananas in anyway when as I said I don't think it was a good decision to send him down when he was going to come back like he's almost guaranteed to come back against Ryan I would have put it at 9010 I reckon what did you think of bananas's angels and the new alliance that he's creating are you Pro bananas and the angels Rachel Jenny and who was the aiv do you think that's a that's an alliance that can carry him to the end he's kind and you know one of the funniest things sorry I had to pause there for a second to cough but one of the funniest things is when he was sitting in complaining to K Maria I was like you know bananas is down bad when he's in the room complaining to karia that he's on the outs and that they're voting him in because he does not like K Maria at all and he's like unloading on her so the guy really is just in such a bad spot now that he's got B's Angels which Rachel is attached to but Rachel she's playing a crafty game as well like I feel like she's

18:55 She's already got like she's working on parachutes that she's got parachute she's working on that like I think it's smart from Banana's perspective he's got no one like he was basically closest I guess somehow to Laurel like he was definitely in like associated with her who is also not the slightest so the fact that he is trying to build a group to work with is smart I don't know if it's going to be strong enough like obviously he's picking some powerful women there to back him up like if anyone of them are going to go down into elimination they have a good chance of coming back and then not picking him as the next Target so that makes sense but I just feel like those three specifically Rachel being the last of era one Jenny being such an outsider in her era aiv not being there for 20 years as well none of them have any political well Rachel does because she's just a beast but politically socially all that she seems to have picked all of that up in one season again and made all these connections I don't think Rachel's got P though but I think she's good she's good for herself like I think she can she can find crevices for herself to work in but I don't think she's going to help bananas's game

20:15 No and none of them are none of them are that political Alliance partner they're good to it's good to have numbers but if you were to make a draft they're not at the top of the list to pick as far as who can insulate who can protect who can do all that sort of thing you know yeah do you like while we're talking about Rachel's strategy of working with Tori and tor's like I don't get how this is going to benefit me because we're not going to be able to Target each other but then in the very same sentence again where we've given Tori credit I do think Tori is a good player of this game but I think she sometimes does some of this strategy because Rachel went in with the can you put a good word in for me with Jordan so clearly Rachel is getting more from this relationship or this Alliance of looking out for each other to get to the end than what maybe Tor is getting because who's Rachel bringing in to help protect Tori so I feel like Rachel is kind of getting more from this relationship if that makes sense yeah absolutely Rachel doesn't bring a lot to like even when she like the same seex protection thing is so difficult because it's the opposite sex that chooses in both regards who sends them down and who chooses the targets so like

21:35 You really don't have a lot of ability to negotiate with another woman because what can they really do for you and you said yourself Rachel's approach there was not what can Tori do for me it's can you talk to Jordan like it's not even like you protect me it's you put a good word in with someone else like third party so that shows the format of the game really affecting how they can approach people and stuff which is really fascinating considering that I guess traditionally like it's not really as much of a case in the challenge but we did see in this episode The Ladies of Leisure where we often see a lot of the times alliances are formed down the lines of gender the team yumuk or you know the ladies of leer the lavender ladies was the treeh house one season as well I feel like the treeh house treeh house sort of thing right a lot sometimes it's mixed but a lot of times you'll find your friends the women group up together the men group up together and if they're in alliances that could normally work pretty well but in this format specifically it doesn't actually do that much for you to protect each other at all you need the opposite sex holl is here saying bananas as Angels make sense since it's the girls that picks the male Target so yep that does make sense for bananas duu also

22:55 Says Rachel can win a daily and protect Jordan which benefit Tor which is true so there is still an indirect way of yeah definitely I didn't think about that W saying Ladies of Leisure AKA team layup it was kind of funny that all three of them ended up being the target for the next week but we'll talk about that you know thought was funny about the ladies of leiser Olivia was explaining it and she's like well we're an alliance that all like to go on vacation together and go on yachts and I'm like wait I know what I've heard of this before it's you're you go on vacation and you're an alliance and they're like where the Ladies of Leisure like what like she specifically said we're an alliance that goes on vacation I'm like that's the vacation Alliance I think it's something about spending money or they like to spend money or something like that so that's why the Ladies of Leisure but talking about the Ladies of Leisure one of them Michelle had a really tough time out on the daily challenged to the point where she overheat with heat stroke gave me flashbacks of Survivor her first season where Caleb from her season actually ended up getting heat stroke and being passed out on the beach and it was a pretty scary moment actually

24:15 In Survivor history and she wasn't fully to that degree but she was pretty in a pretty bad condition after doing this Challenge and looked like she was wanting to quit there at one point and I don't know if I'm getting soft or if it's just the illness and not being like fully you know 100% myself I kind of kind of felt it a little bit for her going through this I feel like she's going through a little bit of a tough time this season and I've been tough on her for the physical stuff sometimes in the past and then you've got Olivia there like talking her into not leaving and I was like man like this sickness must have really got on me because like it kind of hit me a little bit that scene was it just me you have a soft problem you do I do I do I think that's why I've always been tough on her because I'm like I want her to do better but she always kind of falls short a little bit but that's kind of like always been her story and she's really good at puzzles but this time for some of the reason it's the first time we saw a flounder at a puzzle I thought it was really interesting and so fascinating that for these people that are reality TV trained experts like this is their life right she's done Survivor she's now the challenge like they are professional TV people and I just found it so fascinating that for a moment she was like I'm not an athlete I don't

25:36 Like she just had that impostor syndrome feeling of I don't belong with these people like why am I here and fans have said that like not necessarily from the show perspective but she can't compete with these people physically we've said like getting to a final what like she may get to a final with her social connections with whatever skating by but she can probably never in the final we like not against the likes of your Cara maras and your Tores and your Rachels and Casey's and Laurels and jennies and these monster women that are just so strong and athletic and Powerful at this game she had a real like real life moment of like oh like this is above me but I think she then realized or I hope she's realized that on a television show like The Challenge which is not the actual Olympics and as much as we like to pretend it's the fifth major sport it's nowhere near an actual sport she is a very integral key piece of the show she's a good television performer she's not a good great narrator great drama gets involved in relationships there's now Devon by the way as a side note because my ADHD brain's going crazy Devon for a week when he was already gone like his impact

26:56 Is still do I get like confessional points I need to reach confessional points for dere all the all the he got cardboard cutout thing like they're all talking about you know how I said that postgame tips yeah post like K Maria handing over the torch almost symbolically to Tori I feel like Devon as much as the past has come up in the you know they've had their past the fights blah this season is kind of looking like a bananas to Devon torch passing as well a little bit especially cuz they had a little bit of the flare up again they had and Devon's playing such an integral part I don't know if he's got the same physical capabilities as bananas but personality wise carrying the show the narration all that he's like he's really high Banas yeah if Wes was there do you reckon it would have mended the fence between Deon and bananas and we would have had a very different season cuz Wes and Deon is so close cuz de is actually more a protoe of West not really bananas oh of course of course we may have seen a very different game it could have been I wish we did have Jord could have been in the outs Jordan could have been in the outs in that case he could have been he should be on the outs yeah

28:16 I agree with you let's read let's read what some people are saying here Hollis saying Michelle would never make it through a final but I want to point out that when we watch the TV and we're sipping our nice cool water whatever you enjoy when you're having your Beverages and you're watching The Challenge I don't think we fully appreciate how hot and humid it was out there and if your hydration wasn't good and you were dehydrating I mean she's done better in past challenges this is the first time we've seen her absolutely fail in this manner and then I look at someone like I look at someone like Theo who was puffing and huffing and couldn't get it done either and Theo was second in the most tough final that we've ever seen and try to keep up with turbo and actually did for quite a large part of that final I think it kind of puts into perspective what we saw with Michelle failing or struggling on the day I think you can get it wrong on the day so I don't know if she's never gonna be able to get through like I don't know if she can win I don't know if she can get through it I do agree with duu about Cara that worked towards her Championship which is why I'm such a big fan and that's the one thing that Michelle would have to do she would have to put the Leisure out of her sort of day-to-day activity for a year and just for

29:36 12 months put in the work come back run every day like I think if you're a good runner on the challenge like literally how Amber was Amber was an excellent Runner and she had someone with her that was good at puzzles now Michelle's already got half of this it's harder to train to become good at puzzles and to become good at that aspect of the game than what it is to become fit becoming fit just takes massive amounts of dedication so I think if she coulde oh yeah I mean listen obviously between you and me there's for c for certain I'm not saying like some people do have bad luck and it's not as easy but she's not someone if you look at yeah if you look at her buold she should not be struggling she can get in shape like to me I look at her and I'm like you just don't want to you don't want it bad enough Maybe This Moment is the moment ker what that makes her wake up and decide I actually do want to become a champion badly so I'm going to work at it I don't know if it will I wish it did but you know let's see what other people are saying here Hollis is saying caria took the time off to work on a physical shortcomings that's true a saying I think West would have taken the rotted fruit out because its numbers and West isn't Dumb strike if dumb strike if you can rotten fruit so who

30:56 Would be the roted fruit a like I don't who the rotted fruit would be so I mean fruit around the joshes of the world and oh okay like the layups and things like that really I don't know is that what he meant maybe you'll have to explain but I mean that would be not smart of Wes I've always respected Wes as a smart player if you're not going to go up against labs in the end what are you just agree like don't you want the money don't you want the bragging rights of winning the best season ever saying sorry I didn't see the second part of your text dou saying Ashley and Camila didn't have size but had endurance for days ah okay hey bananas I feel like bananas and wesa in such a good makes sense I feel like they're in such a good space these days like they get along so well like I don't know they love each other even on the podcast they can't have enough of each other what did you think of the daily did you like the daily I was biased because to me it felt like something that I would do on a Spartan Race and I was like I would have freaking loved doing this you know no I appreciated the fact like you said like it was hot enough and difficult enough that it had them struggling and it was another

32:16 Element of what I like about the challenge is that they always do something that pushes or challenges a different element of your abilities whether it's endurance whether it's skill hand eye like whatever it is there's always some little different skill in the combination of others but this one was just straight up like endurance like how long can you run in this incredible heat and then after going through that incredible thing do a puzzle like that's that like that's so like to the point where you know you might even do one upside down and not even realize is how hard it would have been you know exactly I was just going to say I don't want to kick a man when he's down because we already like for me personally I was like yeah I mean I know they were doing a lot they were like in R's dad was in the Army and went there and there was the struggle and maybe it's because that is obviously speaking to certain people out there that would get a lot from seeing someone like Ryan as a role model that played this game but for me from an entertainment standpoint I just did I wasn't entertained by Ryan I wasn't entertained by him last season I wasn't entertained by him this season and then seeing him fail yeah and then seeing him fail at that puzzle so badly I was like who could we have seen like the dest is this the best that they could have done for era 2 like how bad was Era 2 in the men section like that they couldn't find someone else

33:37 Bananas was hampered although they got a lot of them left like none of them went home none of the guys actually left so because of the women the women have been carrying that they had the strongest women like Cara Laurel Emily and aiv like what the like holy CRA that's a pretty stacked team yeah it was very it was very interesting and yeah I liked it I thought it was a good daily challenge enjoyed it I like the fact that you could fill other people's tube as well I wonder if there was a better strategy out there that someone could have used like if you if you knew you're targeted and you're like okay I'm good like bananas doesn't really have friends in the game at the moment that are male but you could like try and make someone else win and that probably just the circumstances didn't really play or cater to that with the targets that were that were on there and then what would have happened if one of the targeted people won would they have automatically been saved like that wasn't explained I assume so and then I think it would have been last place and then yeah the and then Target yeah one of the targets yeah so that's another thing you could have done Derek and Ryan could have been like ganging up trying to get one of them to win or I feel like there was more strategy maybe that was untapped people didn't try

34:57 And get into in this specific one that maybe they missed out on but if it was like a West playing definitely would have thought about how can you g system see an angle maybe that no one else has seen and what was the other thing I was going to say about that the other thing I think that a lot of people missed kuna is that TJ said twice in the episode that if you come in last you're in the sand so it doesn't matter if you're Target if you're last you're in the sand but then one of the targeted people will go up against you so corre technically you could not be a Target and still not be safe if you're coming last you just have to not come last right yeah exactly just you just need to not suck basically is this one of those situations where we found ourselves on the challenge where you almost don't want to win you meant for like a Target to be placed on you or something well no so you don't like Jordan said it when he won he was like look I didn't want to I wanted to keep my hands clean for a little while but you know because if it was a girl's week Jordan would have had to make the choice and if he's strategically said I don't want to have to pick especially if the targets were not your choice right if the targets were your you're chosen by the person who was eliminated last week

36:17 And they happen to be your Alliance I think we're thinking about it a little bit too much like in this case like it can obviously every single thing in the challenge has a blowback effect and maybe some people in the Charlies Angels Alliance is not going to be happy with Jordan but I think that Jordan's Jordan like if Jordan's throwing challenges people will notice it firstly that he's not running at full capacity and that would be seen as sneaky in the game and then secondly you've got people in the bananas Angels Alliance who look up to Jordan and thinks wow he's winning a lot I need to align with that person because they could keep me safe so I think in some ways he's actually made friends by winning and someone like Rachel coming to him saying hey we should look out for each other kind of thing you know so you don't want to be align with someone who doesn't win either so I don't know like I feel like you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't but if it was me playing a game like the challenge I don't think it's like Survivor where you're trying to like have meat Shields and protect your Threat Level almost I think the more threatening you are the more weight your word has in the game and people kind of get intimidated and scared by it for most seasons that we've seen on The Challenge people don't Target the person that is the form player on that season because they're scared of them to go directly against them unless they're a new person right yeah

37:37 Let's see what people are saying here as a Duo saying Tyler should be an era two time Champion Tyler would have been a good yeah he would have been he would have been like he was kind of when he came back on All Stars he was out of shape he was in all star and he didn't do well in all star so if he so if he did put if he did put the work in since all stars then 100 and I mean probably even Tyler out of shape would have been better than Ryan right so like they definitely would have gained with him being out there so let's see what else can we talk about here that the night out scene that's where a lot of the sort of talk happened between Rachel and Tori Derek there was an interesting moment between Derek and Tori there where Tori and Derek spoke and Tori kind of made a deal with Derek so at least she did get something from a from one of the men that she didn't Target and she's like if I keep you out of it I'm not going to put you against your friend can you promise that when you're in power and you've got an ability to pick someone you won't pick me and I kind of feel like between you and me I feel like Derek is the kind of guy that will keep his word he comes across as someone that won't go up against his word I think he I think that's right but I also think I think Derek said it like he was like I don't

38:58 Like we've talked about how much power you have and what you can actually offer the other person and as much as you can offer it in principle in reality how often is Derek GNA have that power to be able to protect Tori yeah versus bananas probably less but the bananas thing was a for Tori it became a thing out of principle it's out of principle you and I think I think it was also just the fact that if what bananas did to Deon was game playay I think Tori would have gotten over it's the fact that bananas and I don't think bananas realizes that he went beyond gameplay he was trying to come between Michelle and Deon he's still taking shots at Michelle even at the end of this episode saying at the end was crazy that's why he pettiness is like next level but before we talk about who he chose someone's pet snake okay we'll talk about it so he picked ni which we kind of knew was going to happen because he spoke about this at the club scene where he was like ni's close to Jordan I have to take a shot back at Jordan if I can't get Tori and then so I thought his choices was actually good Olivia Nia and Michelle was none of them were ever going to work with him so great choices to throw in there and I think car Maria must be thinking to herself

40:18 What the hell I did not get targeted in this moment but probably a good move for him to be honest like karia seems unattached to anyone like I'm actually quite fear for her as soon as some of these numbers start going like I don't know if anybody's got her back so if I was bananas I would actively be working and trying to say I know you and Laurel don't get along but come with us we've got numbers you've got a house with me join the bananas Angels there also the thing as well like every season we don't know what the format's going to be for the finals this season but it's usually men and women want to keep the strong men around men want to keep the strong women around by targeting a Michelle and Olivia anayah who someone called team layup I would I know I'd rather get them out of the game and have a Cara Maria as my partner and have a laurel as my partner have a Jenny as my partner in the finals than a Michelle or an even though I think they're all capable I think Olivia's great I think Nia's probably underachieved of what she's probably capable of I think you would pick the others over them in a heartbeat yeah no I totally agree just before we get into the arena as well fun moment with bananas hiding from Jord n Tori in the closet so they couldn't find him

41:38 This is the little stuff with bananas that I just find hilarious like it reminds me of like USA when he was playing and he put the banana peel in front of the voting booth you know things like that so that people could slide on it I just think yeah he does little things like this which can be quite funny at times and we spoke about the whole BL when even when at the end TJ said Tori's protected because she one you can't pick her as a Target right which duh like we kind of know that's always been okay every season always been the case the bananas was still like for the camera I'm assuming and I think for the camera he was like oh come on man oh that's TJ and tor's like haha yeah and they're both playing it up perfectly like really what should have happened is you can't pick Tori and bananas yeah of course like that makes sense but he didn't he was like oh man that's oh come on T he yes he looks offended he plays it up and Tor is screaming at him it's perfect like that's why they are good at what they do it's interesting du here says was a dumb move not voting in Cara no where Cara goes with Laurel team layup are just going to Target on us back next episode I don't think like why does need to make an enemy out of car

42:59 At this stage like he's got enough enemies like I don't know if it's a bad move I think they were going to go for him regardless his probably his thing is like car's a strong female that maybe will throw him a bone now that he didn't throw her in and she could win a daily Laurel could win a daily so he's got some strong females there that could win dailies and then Rachel could win a daily but I don't think it's in Rachel's best interest to win a daily next episode kuna I think in Rachel's best interest at the moment is to lay low and maybe come in second or third because she would have to show cards to both Jordan and bananas in that case and I don't think she should be doing that yeah so I feel like for her for her the best move right now is to lay to lay low what did you think of the arena with the go the quad bikes going up against each other I don't know I'm mixed to be honest with you because on one hand I'm like this is the crazy weird completely experimental funny like never been seen on any television program before ever I don't think this is the that the challenge does that we love only thing that would have made it more epic if they were on horses like I would have freaking loved it that would have made more epic imag imagine doing like imagine them doing you know like where they got the Epic Horse Race yeah when they just each other and yeah imagine that would be

44:19 Insane I would chall try something like that well when I first saw it and I saw bikes some I was like wait is I thought it was going to be like a j I didn't know it was a chasing so I did like it in principle but then in watching it I went oh these are grown men on little toy bikes chasing each other in circles like I loved it I it I also was watching it going as a big dude I was like this is it's all weight based Johnny's gonna lose because he's fatter than Ryan's weighs nothing this is crap and then Ryan can't drive so that made all the difference yeah I was I was a bit I was a bit worried for Johnny with the same observation as you because the smaller the quad bike weight actually does make a difference like even if you go into go-karts there's a reason that like go-karts normally if they do like professional go-kart racing it's like very small with low weight type of individuals that jump into these go-karts it's not big dudes you know so I was a bit worried for Johnny with that but I thought it was fun what I like about it is it keeps people on their toes when it comes to the challenge because you can't just always physically out muscle or have better athleticism than your opponent sometimes they're going to throw a carnival thing at you like this and you can't prep the absolute best case scenario for

45:39 Ryan right like he could D like he could but it's not driving anyway it's a it's a quad no listen I've never seen someone on a straight hit the tires like it's a stra it's not even him going around the corner and he just like was he looking at bananas was he doing like he was cleaning he looking at the corner coming up mate like that was some horrible driving I hope he never gets like behind an actual vehicle and drive people around because I would not trust him driving me around that's all I'm going to say but I love gokart anything like go-karts quads like I grew up driving quads on the farm back in South Africa like so I'm I would have loved this would have been like right I one of I know kind of like I it was F see I play Mario Kart so be yeah it's just yeah then they showed him they showed him at home like playing on the controller and you're like Co mate cool it's just like playing it's just like playing that but it looked like a fun elimination to be a part of but like but what kind of pressure do you feel like you know even though bananas is like I'm taking on Ryan and then he sees it's like

46:59 A show like it's not like it's he can out it's not like brawl or something where he has to climb faster than Ryan or do something athletic how nervous do you think he was going in because if you lose to Ryan as the best to ever play this game and you're the goat puts a serious dent in your legacy like the pressure must have been on him massively and at the start when he couldn't like launch properly and he was like stuck there for like a couple seconds he must have been panicking because you're I don't think there's a person on the entire cast that he would want to lose less to yeah no one like everyone no one would want to lose to Ryan it's like who Ryan did beat someone did he I think Ryan beat someone I don't I don't remember to be honest I don't remember this is crazy I would I would just hate it I would absolutely freaking hate it if I had to lose to him out there especially like I do like that they were friendly this episode but considering the fighting that they've had it definitely would have sucked to lose the if you bananas you know because he was talking so much to him being an asshole's ego can't take that like his ego cannot take that can you imagine like Wes and him catching up in the podcast afterwards the amount of talking amazing yeah he would have dodged wh like a whole season

48:19 He wouldn't have had him on the Pod that would have been amazing that would been hilarious but I was I was going to say this is why every single week when the challenge is on I can't wait to watch it like it is delivering every week people are like that the show continues to innovate it continues to try new things sometimes it's it succeeds sometimes it flops the characters are professional they know what they're doing I just feel like comparing like when we're comparing this to Survivor at the same time it's just more fun it's more fun to watch you know what's weird as well I was thinking it doesn't feel like work like Survivor sometimes feels like work to watch and the weird thing is as well traditionally anyway at least in my head and maybe I see it a little bit differently but it's always been the challenge was more of the physical one because it's called The Challenge they have the eliminations Hall braws blah survivor's taken that element completely out of the game and has focused like I've always considered Survivor like the ultimate chess game it's the strategy version of The Challenge right it's the Nerds game whereas challenge is the jocks game it's the athletes versus the strategists and when you can have an EP a season like brains versus Brawn you can you know that sort of it really

49:39 Plays on that but watching this episode and our discussions tonight in comparing I was like man even though there is never the same format from season to season and yeah with there's certain Elements which take away your strategic agency because of the fact that they can always come back into the game and all that sort of thing you don't have to rely solely on your strategy because you can just rely on your physical prowess to go down the sand and come back every time I feel like there are now it's now flipping where even within the physical nature of the challenge because of the wacky formats and things that they do the strategy is always and there's so many different permutations that could and could like we're talking about Tori what I love what I love about what I love about it is like the challenges constantly changing and it's keeping experienced players on their toes on how to adapt and how to adapt to the strategy every single time but then production doesn't go and say okay we're going to do this but guess what now we're actually G to F with these people by taking their vter away or we're going to like bring in gamebreaking things so that so that we can force the narrative that we want to force on them we don't allow for them to play the game

50:59 That we've designed right you know and that's what survivors doing survivors the production team is actively going after the format and the structure of the game and they're like how can we break this to not really allow creativity and fluidity within the game where the challenge takes the opposite approach they're like we're going to change it at the beginning of the game but then we're just going to allow for players to play the game in the way that it's designed to play we're not going to interfere necessarily with the social dynamics and the strategy and how it's go you know so that's why I'm enjoying it more and I'm sure there's moments that I can't think of now where maybe they have gotten involved in the past but it's not my experience with the challenge in recent Seasons there's been there's been times when Arena outcomes have been up for question and you're like hm I don't know if that person should have gone home it seems a bit flaky you put your tin foil hat on but for the most part I would say the social strategy that got them into the arena is unhindered like it production doesn't step into that the only thing that I would question is that wasn't random like do you remember the algorithm oh yeah Al was I never liked the algorithm like and again they get it right sometimes they get it wrong sometimes D here saying Ryan beat Brandon yeah I don't remember that at all but the fact that I don't

52:20 Remember yeah because you used to love Brandon you were like oh Brandon's a good guy he's a good dude he should be doing good this of course right yeah I don't he's I always thought Brandon was I liked him enough but he's not a good he was it was always me when you're comparing the Survivor and Challenge and the restrictions and the per like what production does and how they put their film on the scale you know what I sort of put it as an analogy the challenge says here's your canvas here's your paint here's what we want as a picture draw whereas Survivor is he's paint by numbers you have to like you fill in these very specific like areas only and you can't go outside that you to play Within this yeah so that I'm thinking like it's just so much more restrictive of what they can and can't do and then move within that but the challenge generally as much as we find sometimes find the rules a bit funny they tend to be pretty consistent with it anyway at least for the season like you know what I mean they're like yep that's what we set and that's the way it's going to play out kind of thing there has been the odd time we're like oh did they change that just for convenience or whatever but

53:40 Generally speaking like they do stick to the format of the current season even when it gets to the point where we think it's going to break like Rachel being the last person on the team the only downfall I have the only downfall I have with the challenge and even still now is that the seasons are too long like this season as well like we're freaking 10 episodes in and we haven't even stretched the surface so like it feels like there's this massive preseason and then we get into the playoffs basically holl I've got a better question I think Colin will definitely make the final or can make the final but I've got a better question here for Kahuna do you think that kyin will win the challenge before Corey yes because I've said I don't think Cory will ever win yeah I actually do and I like Cory but I feel like kyin could be he could be that dude he could be like I don't know if this is a season but like duus said coming in second in the daily to Jordan good at cardio and puzzles social game isn't that great I'd like to see him get there though strategy I feel like listen when you're when you're a beast like kand and you take out champion after champion and you send them home like he's got I think he's got more Champions that he've beaten than most people in arenas right he just in one season and even this season

55:00 Right so again I think that K's just that guy where like he could easily win I could easily see him win a season I don't know if he's ready yet to take on Jordan or bananas if he gets in the fight I think he could take bananas Banas is not as fit as he used to be duu saying why not he was sick okay maky saying my two favorite Lads remember to add source to your hot dogs that's from Survivor holl also says absolutely could beat Cory to the win is there anything else you wanted to talk about K I think we touched on all the main talking points it's a fun episode it's good yeah it's a fun episode everybody thank you for checking it out I did get through it hopefully by next week my voice will be fully back we'll be back on track to have a really good pod with everybody we may also have a challenger on the podcast with us I'm sure everybody if they know who's friends with the channel can put two and two together who may be on the Channel with us next week for the podcast and I know he is a fan favorite of a lot of people that follow the nullified T Channel and also the angel cake channel so stay tuned for that if we're going to try and make it happen for next week we'll have some royalty on the Channel with us as well but for now if you do like this content please hit subscribe put a like on

56:20 This video and for those that are checking it out at the latest stage I know that we do these podcasts very early over in the USA please comment below let us know what do you agree with what do you disagree with and double wins the price yes it's Troy may be on the podcast next week I've been talking to him today so he's pretty Keen to jump on talk to everybody next week have a great weekend on that side and can't wait to talk about the challenge 40 episode 11 next week see you guys bye