The Challenge 40: Episode 3 Discussion

0:00 A [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the nullify te Channel on YouTube where we've got the TNT takes for you on the challenge 40 episode 3 that is right I'm your host Chris and I'm back here joined by my co-host kuna how you doing I'm doing good man doing really good actually I'm glad to be back again enjoying the season enjoying what we been getting so far like I said last week

1:20 The three episodes in and now four episodes in the novelty factor of seeing all the big names in one place battling each other has not worn off and I still like I still feel like it's I don't know if it's the format or whatever but I'm enjoying it I'm in it's like Punchy we're not getting a lot of like wasted space there's a lot enough going in from all aspects so far season 40 living up to the hype and I'm really enjoying it man yeah plenty of things going on definitely no boring lull moment in this episode and a lot of people are agreeing with you when you look at the numbers you know that numbers do matter Kahuna when it comes to TV shows being on air and getting renewed for future seasons and so forth so the premier episode had a. one9 demo rating of 426,000 people watching it live followed by the second one I believe that went up to 0.2 at 466,000 I didn't realize that the numbers were actually that low until I started getting some data in it because that means it's kind of equivalent to the viewers we get for Australian Survivor but it is stronger than what previous seasons have been and it is good to see the fans are sticking with it I believe that when you look at the previous season it

2:41 Was down to 320,000 people watching it so it's up considerably from battle for a new Champion so that is good to see and you know what I've also enjoyed unlike just watching the show itself and enjoying the characters I've really been enjoying the interactions we've been getting in the live the interactions we're getting in the chat afterwards so many people agreeing disagreeing with us I mean nothing changes Kahuna like we you can never satisfy everyone but I actually do appreciate the people that come in here to keep us honest kuna week in and week out yeah I always want to know like see where our takes it's the nullified take we call them the TNT takes I'm always interested to see where they land like oh nope I'm on the wrong side this week see what happens next week I love it to be honest with you like I feel like if we were just saying everything that other podcasters are saying which I don't know what they're saying because I don't listen to them people wouldn't come here for our takes like they're like these guys are out of control their takes are completely different from everybody else that's what we want we aim to be different right and to be authentic to what our opinions are of the show but let's say hello to a few people taku has just bounced out but said hello he is watching or she I don't know if it's he or she is watching the episode right now and we'll be hopefully back before

4:01 We finish this live kiwi saying watching now so we'll join once I'm done so a few people will probably join us later on and we've got Chris back in the live saying morning or evening for y'all and yeah the challenge has been struggling on cable but one of the big things K when I talk about us being kept honest and viewers listening to this and commenting and being so passionate about it they're like I went for a whole hour and 12 minutes listening to you guys I had one comment saying and you guys did not talk about the karma points you left me with blue balls is basically what this person said we didn't talk about it last week there was so much going on coner what was your thoughts on the karma points you know what we're just ahead of the times mate because all we were doing was copying this episode which did not mention the karma points at all like we were just ahead of the curve we were doing what TJ was going to do in the very next episode and is doing nothing with it whatsoever for some strange reason I mean I don't know what they're going to do though I don't know what the C points are I don't know how they're going to play out like what the what impact they're going to have in the end I'm glad they get to have some say but the fact they went the very next episode and did nothing with it again like who knows you know

5:21 Yeah I was hoping I was hoping that it was going to be something that is going to be happening throughout the season now I did note that as they you I guess they had this new twist at the end where everybody's going to get Targets on their back which we'll definitely talk about as well they did still have both Tony and who was the person who Jody I almost already forgot yeah both of them were still standing there they were still also they didn't say goodbye to them so I feel like we missed everything about the karma points and they definitely did it and we'll either hear about it in the next episode in the beginning of it or at some point they'll show us where people's votes went I'm hoping my thinking on this Kahuna is that comma points at some point will be a disadvantage to certain individuals now I don't know if it's going to be a disadvantage in an arena when there is an elimination or if it's going to be a disadvantage in a daily but karma is normally something that comes back to bite you so I don't think it's a good thing I think we can agree on that so somewhere down the line I feel like there's going to be a penalty on some people and maybe it's the people that they voted at the lowest or something like that because they dislike them the most and that's just me throwing my two SS out there I mean it has to be a disadvantage on my mind I mean you can have good karma points Chris

6:41 Said it here like kind of like the Friendship points that Laurel got in Allstar 4 like when the people ended up going out in the final they gave yeah you know extra points or extra bonus to the people they wanted to sort of bless so it could be you know along those lines but I'm hoping you're right especially for something like 40 especially the way they showed in the edit the reactions from like Amanda saying Revenge you know that they want it to be more that way than li like happy friendly like you know they get more points out of the drama they get more air time and content out of the drama out of the Laurel and the car Maria than they do out of the Ryan and Derek best friendship you know what I mean like you get more play out of the drama I'm hoping that the it is a negative Karma base yeah we've got blood Money immediately G for the juicy bit here asking us what did we think of choose targets and captains at the end of the elimination going straight to the end here I don't mind diving into it a little bit here we don't need to talk about how these people won or how they got there we can talk about that as we dissect the whole episode but what did you think of Target I personally am a massive fan of it I

8:01 Really love this Dynamic of it I mean just that whole Tina confessional at the end where she's like you know derell is uncomfortable as hell you can even hear his voice crackling as he's needing to make a decision at this at this point because derell is like the ultimate floater in the challenge like if he doesn't have to make a decision he's not going to make a decision he's always riding that middle ground in every single season and immediately he's put in a position where he's got to make some enemies so for me person I was a big fan of it yeah I was too like you said just from that the aspect of the uncomfortable nature that it puts or uncomfortable position that it puts him in Avery said you know if I put a Target on someone then you know that makes you the target next time it comes around right so I love that I said when I was watching it live I was like man the added complication of like yeah even when you win like there's a catch you know what I mean like the like to use the old Spider-Man quote with great power comes responsibility and this is yeah the ultimate thing like you can't even like I think Aver someone said it at one point I think it was in here they're like not even a second to

9:21 Breathe TJ like we don't even get a chance like and that's exactly right like they just survived elimination and then now you know you then have this most stressful thing to choose as well on top of you can't even Relish in the victory for a second you got to actually now think strategy politics implications consequences it's pretty big to put that on them straight away you know it's brutal it's brutal but I absolutely love it there's no time for them to become comfortable in that situation immediately being put on the in the hot seat and you know I like what is this is potentially going to do for the rest of the game as well especially for people like K Maria who we all know I'm a fan of and want to get to the end here like this becomes harder now to Target karia outright you know what I mean like if that team wants to get rid of her there's a little bit of control almost taken away if targets are going to remain throughout the game because it's going to depend on who's going to go down into the arena they're going to have to like does Laurel and bananas if they do end up in an arena and they win do they Target karia in that moment knowing that she can return fire I don't know like I feel like it adds some levels of complexity to it as well and it makes it harder for them to Target her out and out like some of the outlier people could potentially be

10:42 Saved by this because of connections they have in other team so that becomes more important it's not just your team that is the sole denominator in you going into the arena so I love what it does like it makes the game messy it makes the game complicated so overall big fan of this move and you know while we're talking about this yeah go ahead I'm interested to see how like it just so happened to be unfortunately it just happened to be derell and Avery who won where both of them seem very uncomfortable with a decision like this and I just thought of like I didn't even think of it in the moment but what happens when it's someone that will wield it like a weapon as opposed to a burden right they're like no I'm gonna use this to like Jordan yeah like when TJ says you target someone's gon like I'm going to use it as an actual Target I want to specifically Target a person and then make sure that team loses in the next daily so that they automatically you know what I mean like there's going to be strategies that can then be used with it as well other than just the social consequences and ramifications of oh no you picked me it's no I picked you like

12:02 Yeah not because I have to because I wanted to that's cool as well you know and can we just talk about the people that got nominated by Avery and derell because in what world do we see Derek bananas Jordan and araso all in danger this early in the season potentially to go down there and no matter which one of those four guys go up against each other you know you're going to be happy to lose of justed massive in the first episode winning against guy three times his size in a PO wrestle so you know he's going to be tough to eliminate an eliminations unless it's something mental but you know bananas and Jordan are two of the goats two of the best to ever play this game could potentially go up against each other in this next round and one of them leave and you know for a fact if bananas or Jordan falls into the bottom there is a very high likelihood that they get those two to go up against each other early because you want one of them gone this early in the game and then Haro is the new kid on the Block could we see a Jordan versus Haro round to haro's got the bragging rights now he's actually beaten one of the best in an elimination before and you know Jordan would like to settle that score so I am absolutely tipping my hat to Avery when it comes to the men that she selected I thought this was a

13:22 Brilliant combination of people that she's throwing in there yeah I love it the fact that you've got the two biggest goat like with throw CT in there but to have Jordan and Bananas In the Mix there with someone like Derek who is a B level or a BT Champion but always never really that same level yeah but he's going to be Scrappy and wanting to be seen on that and then you've got horio who is seen as the next iteration right people were saying he's the St he's the face he's he literally was the face in the post on 39 you know the biggest face on the poster for 39 and you know the couple with narice like the obviously a Target and to have that sort of iteration there is fascinating to see as well and even the women like the women picked phenomenally yeah we'll go through that next but before we go and talk about the women let's read a couple of comments here in the meantime that have come in we've got blood Money saying have you guys ever eaten Vietnamese food before today daily made me never want to eat again Vietnamese food is Kahuna staple like he eats it every second weekend right Kahuna yeah I mean first of all I'm Filipino it's pretty similar Southeast Asian but

14:43 In that's not normal Vietnamese food like they went and took people thinking this is Vietnamese yeah that's not Viet like the area of Sydney that I'm from as well Southwest Sydney I went to school in Liverpool it's right next to a suburb of cabata which is the Vietnamese like that's like Vietnamese Town in Australia the most highly po like populated so I went to school with so many wins and like my entire class was like a lot of Vietnamese people so I've eaten a lot of Vietnamese food in my life that's not that's not it I'm the same I've had a lot of Vietnamese food that's not it and well one of them he said L bot which is Filipina so yeah it's been well documented on this podcast that if it was any eating challenge and I was out there I would struggle I would not do well at it I don't know like I think I would have gone for the Wormy type of things like that would have probably what was the white things that were moving I think that would have been there's no way I would have eaten the snake yeah there's no way I would have eaten the snake no way in the rat way I would have gone for those wormy looking things and I would have just

16:03 Brain even chewed into them listen no it's disgusting maybe I would just say I am vegan before you eat rat there's no way that tofu was as bad as the stuff that they had to eat I would be a vegan if I went to go play on The Challenge I would eat the tofu andan yeah it's tough it's tough that's tough let's have a look at a few more people duoo welcome to the live so early in the morning we really appreciate you being here Britany is saying the twist is a great because now everyone will have an invested interest in who goes down because they could affect you Britany also said prevents people from throwing dailies and their own team because if the targets go if they're the targets going in they can immediately be picked next totally agree Lena saying they have more Western type dishes that are good it's totally true Britany says TJ was so happy with the target selection too he was like this is a stacked lineup exactly smart election by Avery Lena saying Lena welcome to the live to be fair Jordan did volunteer I feel he did that as a way to do a solid for Corey for not picking him last week which is totally true and we all know Jordan Is Not Afraid he's never been afraid if you think back about the kill cards back in the day how he flipped all of them to go and wasn't a smart move back then but yeah he's confident

17:23 Lena saying their fried rice is less greasy that is correct now you mentioned that the woman as well was very impressive so derell went with Ana does have a very solid track record when it comes to winning eliminations but I do still feel like Ana is an anchor in that team and she's every single time she feels so betrayed by everybody doing this but I do think that at the end of the day that is probably the right move for his team to rather throw ana in there because she's someone that is going to struggle if they had to run in the final you probably wouldn't want to run with someone that's ankles potentially could give in a final so totally understand why he made that move I was very pleasantly surprised by the fact that he went after Laurel and I do think that is maybe a shout out to K Maria who he's closer to who he's worked with before saying I've got your back I'll go against the person that threw you in so I think he kind of showed his allegiances a little bit in doing that and then he went with Nia not too sure the reason there and Jenny he didn't have much of a connection with but between those ladies there you'd say Laurel would be and Jenny Laurel and Jenny would be the matchup we'd all like to see right that would be an absolute Powerhouse elimination if they had to go up against each other but overall not a bad selection from derell as well

18:44 Like there's some solid Heavy Hitters in that group two Champions especially as far as eliminations go like Ana and Nia are not on the same level as Laurel and Jenny West but in the sand like an's got the most wins with car Cara Maria like you know she's pretty and Nia is one of I think one of the worst like daily win percentages in the challenge like but in elimination when it's just herself and she's you know six foot tall how like you know she's a bit of an Amazon like she's pretty good as well like that's a hell of a lineup yeah let's see what people are saying here Chris is saying I wonder what happens if all of One gender on an era go out like what if era four loses every week and they have no men left to Target I just feel like the challenge is one of those shows where they like you know how we say in Survivor they don't change the format or change direction based on how the show goes I don't think that rule applies to the challenge like I feel like the challenge yeah they'll switch it up they'll be like this week you can only nominate women because you know we've had too many men go in a row or something like that like I just don't see it

20:04 Getting to that point because I feel like the challenge are a little bit more Loosey Goosey with production interfering and they have like a set number of what they want in the end so I just don't think it will happen personally Britany says Ana needs to stop with her entitled attitude she was barely trying in the daily exactly Britany that is what I've been saying for such a long time like you know Ana gets so upset about people going after her but at the end of the day like it is what it is like you know you are not somebody like you recently ran a final with one of the best to ever do it with Jordan and Jordan I would say could almost win a final kuna with anyone and she was holding him back in that final it was clear as day I mean he ran her into the ankle thing like you know like did he I wonder if she could actually just hang in enough with someone like Jordan if she didn't have the ankle like she I don't I think she I think she did the ankle not to run the whole thing like I feel like so the Jordan could go easier on her what do you think what do you think of Ana in a final like all stars that we just saw or even 39 where there's no mountains like all stars was like I still think running and anything with running in it

21:24 Like I wouldn't Bank on Ana to be great at it like if it's endurance so that's why it's a problem for me running a final with her now what do I think of Ana running a solo final against me love it I would love to have her in the final running against me but I don't want her in my team is what I'm saying so I completely understand where they were going with this move Lena saying Ana is good at trivia I think she will do good in the next episode yep clearly she's good at trivia brainy things potentially is where a strength is she's also good at strength right like anything that's going to require strength she's amazing she's got her strengths but endurance is not it du saying don't like Jordan's chances next week Hario beat him twice bananas beat him and Derek is a beast I really feel like Jordan in most cases will come out okay the person I'm the most fearful off is raasio because raasio does have the current momentum behind him and he's a bloody raaso is kind of the same meta like he's the same build as Jordan like in a video game like when you have the characters they're like different skins of the same like body you know what I mean like different so but whereas I think they compete very well together they're very even sort of both athletic both endurance-based both very smart

22:45 You know both really professional athlete professional level athletes and a different kind of approach to the game to a Johnny or a Derek but those two are very similar in that build you know mhm Chris saying I don't know if I'm explaining it properly I don't have a lot of characters to type I don't know if we explain our side of it properly either Chris so let us know Lena said she does come off as entitled dubu says harass only beat him once and rasio is a professional soccer player he should have won that and then Chris says I don't think Ana purposefully hurt her ankle and faked it she is just like that and Duba says Jordan took a shortcut through the forest because she couldn't catch with the rest on theth and that's when yeah it's true she kind of Hur her anle because they went I think off the track so it's a fair call that's a fair call I'm throwing shade for no reason but I still don't think even with a capable ankle she would have kept up I don't think she's got the speed or the endurance to do that no but she kind of like it's one of those things where you take so on a on a final with his stations she's going to lag behind on the Run 100% and Jordan's gonna be like come on but what does she bring to the puzzle stages compared to someone else what does she bring to the stages where they're carrying the sacks compared to an

24:05 Avery like you know I mean like there are those stages where the strength you said her strength is strength matters in some of these puzzles matter in some of these should she be thrown in before Tina should she be thrown in before Katie like should be yeah I get where you're coming from now this episode a lot of this episode revolved around the drama between Tony and Avery and I felt like the show tried to make this a thing where they said Tony was looking down on her for being a woman and wanting to make a strong decision and it was taking that angle quite a bit when the only thing Tony was thinking and I feel throughout this like I understand it didn't work for him and it looked really bad and he absolutely flopped it in the elimination that is not how I read it like I read it Tony came in from No Man's Land to play this game Avery did have friends in the game and she proted her friend which is her prerogative to do that and he was like I need to make friends I need to get people behind me so if I can show some loyalty maybe come back in this situation if I did go in there you know I've got now suddenly Casey who's grateful I've got kylin potentially there and a lot of these new kids when I look at that you know when we look at statistics Derek isn't someone that you would say is in general have been a strong competitor and that makes a deep every single

25:25 Season he did well in all stars but that's really it right so he was looking at numbers at this stage so I can kind of understand his motivation but I don't think any of it had to do with the fact that he didn't want Avery to have her own opinion I didn't think he was disrespectful to her at any stage but the vibe was very strange in what they were saying they were like oh you know Tony's not wanting to and let her make a decision because she's a woman that's kind of what I got from the episode which I just didn't see it yeah well people flat out said that right Ryan was getting in Avery's saying it's that I yeah I don't know I can't imagine like I can't I don't know why he did it in the first place at all I don't know what motivation he had that was strong enough to get him to go down in the sand but I certainly don't think number one on the list would have been I'm going to put this little lady in a place like you know what I mean like yeah I do think strange if that was even part of the calculations which I don't think it was based on anything I saw it would have been pretty low down on the list I think he was doing the calculations that Casey and kylin are formidable and scary and if they go down up against derell and Jodie Tony's doing the maths and thinking they're coming back like if I send them down I think they beat derell and jod and I think that's a pretty fair assumption

26:45 To be honest with you in for both of them and he knew like they're coming back if I send them down so I might as well do the smart thing here and do that maths but when you're doing that calculation and you're doing the way up he was putting a lot at risk as well like his entire team I know he went down last week anyway so he's probably thinking I'm at the bottom of the pecking order on era three regardless but holy crap he was pissing some people off you know yeah know he wasn't he wasn't making a lot of friends out there that's for sure and Chad's got a couple of interesting comments here so Britney is saying I agree with you Chris Tony made a bad decision but I don't think gender was a factor and Lena also says I agree Chris that is what I assumed was Tony's motivation and then Chris coming in hot saying that Tony is not a misogynist but he is a quiet quitter he wanted to go home do you think that was the case that Tony wanted to bow out he saw that the table was stacked against them in this moment and that he couldn't get his way to the end and decided to leave early here this season I hate to assume that but for someone that was talking a lot of like this is my comeback I'm I want to have a proper run when

28:05 He was an allars he have to leave early due to personal reason so he was like this is my real for someone that's talking that way if you really want to have a run on it holy crap did you do the wrong thing his action said the opposite like he did not want to be there based on him going to stalemate and forcing it to go down like when he says and Avery says I wanted to be here like Tony showed that he didn't and she called him out on it like I don't know if that's true you can look at it two ways you can look it two ways though kuna like I me and you both are we're Gamers and we think about the strategy we're like bananas if we're playing this game with our mom we're telling her you got to get that shoulder ready you're going into a hall brawl right because we want to get to the end we're Gamers right Tony is not that level of a gamer and I don't think for him the strategy side goes to that level of deep thinking as well but you know we not you and I but some people in the chat and some people in the comment section after Derek threw himself in against Mark long applauded him for doing that saying that is what the challenge is about Tony did the same thing he threw himself in there and the challenge love big moves they love people that are not scared to go in there that is why they brought the whole skull twist that is why they try and force more people to go in there for big moments it gloriously failed and the

29:25 Margins between success and failures this thin right so Derek looked like a hero and a very smart guy for going in and proving his worth in the in the first elimination but if it blew up in his face we would have been saying the same thing about Derek and maybe we would have said maybe he wanted to go home early so I don't think personally I don't think Tony wanted to go home early I don't think that is the case here I don't know what's in his heart I don't know his motivations that's not how I read it I think Tony came from an era where if you throw yourself in there you're showing you're not afraid you're willing to play you will go up against anyone and if he beats Dell you know amazing because Dell's a champion with so many different titles and one thing I did want to call while I've got the mic and then I'll go back to you because I can see you've got some thoughts you want to share with me here is that the one person talking to the camera saying that what's Tony doing this is insane like this is the dumbest move I've ever seen is Derek and he did it the very previous episode like does he have selective memory what's going on gaslighting us I forgot that's crazy I was going to say you know what the difference is between the two Derek doing it and Tony doing it is that Derek didn't get called out for any of that stuff for wanting to go home or throwing it or not putting in effort whereas Tony did so

30:45 What that tells me is there was some other signs other than just the throwing in right like Derek could do it and still hold his Integrity intact and no one accused him of to go home because they knew he was doing it from a place of stupid but a good place whereas Tony did it Avery was calling him out before he lost right she said he clearly doesn't want to be here he's throwing himself down so for someone to actually say that out loud what is he showing her what has he said what has he done what has he given off to give that impression where you get called out in front of TJ which is kind of the worst possible label you could put on someone on The Challenge right like in front of TJ as far as essentially quiet quitting with what Chris said quitting the show which TJ hates and doing it in a shitty way like that like if that's true she's called him out on it he's obviously done something to trigger that you know yeah but I mean okay I'm going to pull Chris's comment up here saying your resident social media expert and we do appreciate you follow everything online Chris cuz I definitely don't says Derek confirmed on Twitter that Tony didn't try in theim he wanted to throw himself

32:06 In there to go home and risk Avery with him right and that is Derek's opinion from the sidelines in regards to how bad Tony performed I'm not saying like I'm not even the biggest Tony Defender I'm not like Tony's number one stand here but we're taking it as gospel what another Contender said like that how do we know that like where was this ever confirmed and the same person who said that he wanted to go home and he risked my game was the same person who said that he was you know not wanting to listen to me as a woman basically and I didn't see that translating either in the show but again this is an edited show there's a lot we don't see I just think innocal proven guilty in regards to this like show me the receipts like Derek talks a lot like but I don't know if Derrick's the most credible Source just because he said it on social media I don't know if I believe it yet in regards to that this which Derek is this though yeah like if it's if it's Avery's friend makes it even more that I won't believe it because you know like obviously he's gonna say it he's gonna have Avery's back in this situation I do love the Avery side of it all as well we will definitely talk about that but I just wanted to finish on the whole Tony situation let's bring a couple of comments up here Lena saying I think he was trying to prove his loyalty to kylin and Casey I don't believe it was gender driven totally agree Britany says every kept

33:26 Saying that Tony wanted to go home through the episode so I'm thinking Tony thre it on purpose and that was her perspective possible said it she said it in confessionals which are filmed after the fact right yeah so you know she's got that retro like a lot of it was done in confessionals but it as she went down she was in the sand said to TJ yeah but when they say she was saying it throughout the episode like we did hear it multiple times but except for that one time in the sand that multiple times was in conf you know what I mean like yeah so I don't know if yeah du was saying producer set the tone with Rachel's toast episode zero about underappreciated woman then leaving out bananas with the toast Tony was done no nothing to do with gender and listen it's not I don't mind it on the Rachel toast because it's not untrue there has been times where the women on the challenge have not been appreciate it I just don't want Tony's name to be thrown in there as the person who didn't do it in this episode when I didn't see it right but it's true like we know that women haven't always had they haven't always been given the same respect as men not even by The Producers The Producers have made a way bigger thing about the bananas and the CTS of this world and they've kind of marketed that I feel like a lot better than what they've done with a lot of their women I mean Jenny West is an example she wins the championship and she never

34:46 Comes back they don't couldn't care less like so the producers are just as guilty as the people who are actually playing the show in my opinion I think I think this is an important point that D rais there is that Tony's done like that's always an important very important factor right never attribute to malice what could be attributed to incompetence he's not being sexist he's not being yeah he's just stupid and makes dumb decisions that go against his own best interest in the game yeah I totally agree and Chris listen I know you're not happy with me but if because it's Derek C I definitely don't believe it now I definitely don't believe it cuz he's 100% going to have Aver's back Avery threw herself in there for him that's kind of why it makes it worse right that's kind of why it makes it worse because from to like what people were saying was Avery saying I've known Derek for 10 years I have actual real life relationships with these people yeah Tony was dumb for trying to push the envelope it would have never happened but I fully appreciate it and hats off to her for standing her ground because there's a lot of other people bananas who would not have done that for a real life friend d do it for her Derek CED didn't go listen your games risk here

36:06 Just as mine since we've been friends our whole life I don't want you to throw yourself in the sand for me Derek C was comfortable with her stepping of the bus thank you thank you I'll take it Avery Tony did say that at one point as well like he said to I forget who he was talking to but he said like oh I told her you I'm happy to go down and she said me too and I was like oh no I think I have to rethink my strategy here like I pulled out that card too early so I was like oh he's not going to go down that would be dumb right like I was like he understands he just tried to Bluff it didn't work he'll pull it back but like he didn't like he was he was aware of how bad it was that you know it was it was just a bluff and she called him on it he didn't retract he didn't go back he didn't like you know yeah but again we're we're missing the like there's a combination of a few things here right but Britany calls this out brilliantly and I know you're going to love it you've been a longstanding fan of Casey's right and that Filipino Filipina loyalty Bond Stands Strong there and again we see Casey playing on her own she doesn't have Nani there which is exciting for us as the fans also for Emily she's a bit excited about that as well in the house you know but

37:26 We get to see Casey actually politic and have to fight for position when she's in trouble she becomes alive a little bit and we have to give her some props for her social game because she got this guy who she's never played with to actually throw himself in the ring yeah to try and become friends with her which is an impressive game move and it shows that her politicking is strong and her presence within the game and her piece of her total piece of work of what she's done in the challenge so far Stacks up to the point where people want to be associated with that you know that's powerful stuff like I don't know if everybody would have been able to do that yeah absolutely I thought you were going to mention about how Emily also said that she wish Nani wasn't in the equation yeah that's what I said Emily is that's why I said Emily is as excited as us the viewers playing together but yeah you're right like the fact that Casey and kylin as well kylin played a role in that Josh peppered in some like you know we'll look after you look after us but yeah like to get someone that you've never met before to completely risk their game good point I didn't even think of but poin and Casey like that's pretty impressive like you know when we were watching all stars and t not Tina Veronica said

38:46 I talk them into picking someone else that's basically the best politicking I've ever done in the show like they talk Tony into sacrificing himself to save them like that is pretty amazing like when they knew he was going up against Avery who had decades long ties and he still stood by a stalemate for them like that's pretty impressive yeah and I totally agree and another piece of Goss and so glad the bloody money brought it up so we don't forget about this is that you know the Josh and Tor fight this episode was kind of refreshing this trouble in Paradise in the vacation Alliance and you know what I kind of have Josh's back a little bit on this one to be honest I felt like you know he's an easy target but the guy is sitting on his own he's out of the whole thing we all bag on Josh all the time it's fun to bag on the Goof you know but you don't expect your friends to be chiming in and having a good time on your expense right and he said he was less worried about the fact that Nia ended up hooking up with kylin that's okay things happen but the fact that his friend somebody that he sees as a friend now twice and his mind is starting to betray him in the game and not really showing loyalty you can't help but feel for

40:06 The guy right like put yourself in his shoes like this is a person that should have your back yeah I don't know like I'm on both sides because on one hand I forgot your a Tor stand I completely forgot about this I am a t I am a t like definitely a Tory girl but it's obviously very brutal what happened to Josh to get cucked so hard by kylin while he's sleeping there and then to hear people laughing about it like that is hard but you know she's just having a like it wasn't that big a deal like she's just having a little bit of a laugh and it's a if your mates you should be able to give your mates you know what I mean like it's but to their face direct Jos Josh is a sensitive boy and she should have taken that to account I do feel bad for him because however I do want to say I'm not a big social media person but I think Chris could back me up on this I'm pretty sure he wins in the long run though doesn't he who's this Josh I think did he I think post season photos I've seen where Olivia and Theo which I knew and that's did he win or did kin just move on because kin moves fast mate like he moves and I saw it was nia and joshh Theo and Olia on holiday together

41:27 So yeah but is it a win if kylin actually moved on which mean that Jos actually became the second choice like is that a win because kin moves that I've never seen that boy stay with one lady for very long right so I don't know I don't know what other kind of hookups was going on this week we had the Brad Emily thing happening as well it was kind of strange came out of nowhere I don't know what's going on like this it's like yeah Olivia Theo lot of hook yeah I could see that one happening but they're like also they're also I guess they're not like young like when the challenge first started but they are the young and Theo's got a kid so it's different as well but with Brad I feel like he's my age and I feel like stop like don't hook up in houses with when you're on reality TV you're 45 man stop it like children watching yeah let's see what people are saying here du says how nice of casy to do more than repeating rules of the game which TJ just did blood money is also saying Tor is not being authentic at all Chris is saying they need to book a trip to Cancun stat to save this

42:47 Alliance and Lena saying that was cruel of Tor not cool du saying you are giving itch and kyin too much credit if Tony wanted out they didn't convince him of anything it's true potentially if he wanted out and I will say this if Tony wanted out like again I'm not on the train of believing that he wanted to quit putting it out but if he did but if he did though like my respect for him would be at an alltime low for putting another player's game at risk when you want to put that is like the most selfish thing that you can do and I can completely understand why Aver is pissed off in that scenario and why Derek C is pissed off in that scenario and maybe there is truth to it I don't know it's just I don't feel like we've got enough credible evidence to go off to actually say that was 100% what was happening duu saying Josh is upset over na but he instead takes out frustration to Tori because that's easier so duu is on your side in regards to this Kaa Britney is saying I felt like Tori was teasing him to fit in with the crowd I think Tori does like Josh but she doesn't respect him I think Tori was happy that n was hooking up with someone other than Jordan true very true Chris is saying talking about your friends do their faces way different than talking behind their back totally agree and Lena's also saying don't defend Tori on this one

44:07 Okay Brit saying yeah it seems like something bad happens between I and kyin because she's been throwing shade at him excited to see what happens kylin's gonna hook up with someone else I'm putting money on it Chris is saying I wouldn't say it's a total win oliv Theo and Michelle and Deon are still together ni and Joss were probably just temporary cas and yes col is the communityone Tor be a man for once yeah he's basically what she's saying is that he's the community bicycle you know everybody gets a right everybody's a right D saying question for Kahuna when Jordan and N had their fling if Josh laughed at Tor how does that how does she react yeah you're right that's pretty Che yeah I just think this like as a friend you don't do that as a friend you're like hey guys like I don't appreciate you joking around Josh is a good guy but and we're all human we're all human so sometimes you have those moments of weakness but it's not a great look on her for sure my mind I just think him going no I don't want to be friends anymore was so and she's like dramatic yeah and she was like you're saying some real here like be careful he's like no we're not friends I don't want to be friends any I was like oh

45:30 That's yeah and that hurt it does s you know what I hate the most and I won't I will turn on Tori on this one I'm not fangirling her for this but I hate when someone does something shitty which yeah like admittedly like I was like it's not that big a deal but I'm not saying I wasn't praising her for it I wasn't saying it's nothing I was like H yeah but someone does something shitty and then when someone gets upset then they get upset and act like the victim like Josh got upet like I can't believe you said that to me when I was the one like was laughing at you eat Humble Pie and say hey I was being wrong I was I was that right I was being a bad friend like I'm sorry I'll do better you know I don't want to lose this friendship but anyways what did you think of the actually before we move on let's talk about the Avery side of it we liked it right we liked Avery standing her ground we liked Avery having Derek SE back in this moment because they were real friends outside of the game and good on her for being a badass and beating one of the best Challengers from the era one like probably one of the strongest females from era one right she actually did extremely well like going up against Jody you wouldn't have picked Avery preseason to necessarily beat her in a head tohe no I and I feel bad for Jody that she gets sort of relegated to

46:50 Aver's hero story you know what I mean like she didn't really get much shine herself I was worried about her from the start because of the very little confessional she got in and she got very little air time at all in the in the episode zero so I was worried about her I kind of figured when in this episode she probably was going to go home considering we're getting Avery like stepmom photos and we know about her and her dogs and things like that like I was like oh this isn't good for Jody and she's so like good like she's a very good competitor but I think that's P person I feel like she's a very pure person as well I think that's the problem is that she's just a normal person she's a mom that just wants to compete hard and unfortunately that's kind of boring for a show like The Challenge but I like her I like that she's just No Nonsense no get it done and she's a she's a competitor and I really appreciate that you know she gets relegated to Avery Side Story it's one of the things it's one of the things we got probably I got called out for I shouldn't say we because I've been hard on harao in a few previous podcast but I got called out for it a little bit where people are saying like don't we want the good guy as well don't we want they to be a good guy and it's true you need good guys so be bad guys you can be both it's they don't have to be mutually exclusive there are people

48:11 That can be both a very good character as well as very good competitive you competitors as well you don't have to have one without the other like derell has been for many years he's been the good guy but he's entertaining Jordan is the ultimate combination of both yeah I've see Jordan as like an anti-hero I see him kind of like dead he's Deadpool in this situation like he doesn't yeah but I mean he's not boring at all I mean he's Brant on camera and he's brilliant competitively he's yeah he's not a hero but he's certainly not boring in the slightest and never has been it's all right it's all right Chris I've got this under control don't worry about it nothing to see here move along Chris saying heyy watch it do not disrespect Daisy like that Daisy what are we talking about here like am I missing something you don't know either you're going to have to explain that one to us it's going over our heads Britany saying it was so nice to see Jordan running to hark Avery after she won Lena saying I like good guys that give good confessionals duu says am I the only one that thinks Aras you're going home soon his edit is very weird very sad and feeling sorry for himself doesn't look locked in totally agree it was kind of a weird it was a weird we angle with Michelle and him as well Michelle's

49:31 Like Hey try and be good you know you're still in this game we need you as a strong competitor was just really weird Chris is saying daisy is Avery's dog that Kahuna was being shady to yeah let him know no I was just saying I knew because we got dog stories we got all that like d like Avery probably wasn't going anywhere you know yeah Britain is saying that Tony's move lowkey affected Jody to because I don't think a lot of people would have helped Casey in that elimination since most eras wanted Team Four to go in I actually think team three and Team Four are kind of working together this what we kind of saw remnants of that so they potentially could have still been people from that team that would have helped but Jordan not Jordan Josh doing what he's doing with to Tor is not good for both those eras right now they don't need that Rift they need to be working together in this game well that's one of the dangers or one of the things that's funny about the errors setup right is that I said originally when I was thinking of the errors in my head CT is error one but his first season was season 9 right he really more of a era two kind of guy like is where he build a lot of his relationships and a lot of the era 3 people like Tori came in on season 29 Devin in season 28 and they're in the era

50:51 3 but their relationships and they've been part of the era four a lot more you know what I mean like it's weird how there sliding and a lot like Ana and Tori are besties from era 1 to era three like there's a lot of these different shifting relationships you know it's good yeah totally agree now we've spoken a lot about I guess the end of this episode but we've kind of skipped over the actual daily what did you think of this daily challenge and specifically her one's performance because I've got to be honest with you they feel like they've been out of the game for 20 years at this stage like they were Rusty in this daily challenge and if this is what we're going to go by when it comes to Performance in the daes they've got a lot of work to do I just love anytime you go Brad's like I got this yeah and everybody trusts him like why do they still trust Brad like have they not learned sit down Brad be humble like but who's to blame for this like but who's to blame for this is it like er one who should know better than to trust Brad or is it Brad's fault like I feel like when you're when you're playing into the delusion you're a part of the problem yeah I don't know man and then you've got like

52:11 Just CT going off his nut like screaming at him like yeah CT is not having fun with this team man like he's like I'm meant to be I'm meant to be the old man in the groove like I don't want I don't want to be the young athletic one in my team man like Britney said here the daily was really good it was nice to see CT be activated because Brad really screwed this team and screwed up though right like was it really Brad's fault at the back it looked like it looked like he couldn't use the r work like the r the rudder when you when you no the rudder depending on which direction you go it helps with the angle that it goes into yeah them to be able to coordinate the at the same time right yeah no they were collectively they were horrible but I don't think Brad was that great either at one point it looked like he was rowing instead of using it as a Rudder and then he yeah to R and there was a screen broke Jody's one just fell apart I was like what is she had like nothing in her hand like she had just like the front of the paddle in her hand they couldn't have done worse at one point I actually thought that CT and Rachel and them were going to jump

53:31 Into the water and just push it and swim it to the to the shore but I don't know how clean and hygienic that water was and if you really wanted to be in it to be honest over there but really bad performance you said CT is being held back by this team right now another person is Rachel like she's like I've done so much rowing in my personal life but when you're doing it with a team and they don't know what the hell they're doing it's actually really hard oh yeah for sure like one person I think can really throw off the rhythm of the entire boat right like I haven't done it before you don't get me on boats in the water like that but I assume it's difficult yeah Lena thank you for being here we'll catch you next time on the live and make sure to leave a comment if you do listen to the rest of this live we really appreciate you listening in duu saying cidd is to blame he should have been the leader and put people in the right position as he is the best player I do think with CT's got one of those things where probably he's now like he said he has played for a long time in the game but he hasn't played with a lot of these players for a very long time and with some of these players that are from era one he's never played with them so I feel like he kind of feels like the odd man out as well and if you make too much of a noise too early on especially when team captains was selected and they were jod and Brad you don't want to be

54:51 A Target either you don't want to be the annoying one Kahuna because you know there could be some EG involved yeah and CT usually takes the derell route of sitting back and not really wanting to take charge even though his competitive and fiery nature comes out in a challenge where they're sucking he's happy to sort of be the engine and not necessarily the rudder yeah Britany here says controlling the rudder is the most important role because they're basically the captain if you mess that up it's harder to Pedal shout out to Jordan for taking that role with only one hand again Jordan just being amazing at what he does finding a way and what I like about that team is that they allowed for him to take that position Tony and who was it Avery even though they put their hands up they weren't really captaining that team like it was definitely Devon Jordan and Tori they were the loudest voices in those teams and really stood up to get it done for them and erow 3 was impressive like I was starting to feel really good about the fact that most of my draft had ero 3 in it because they're like a pretty decent team except for the fact that Tony kind of messed them up a little bit at the end of the episode well when you said those names in combination of how they work together like when you've got a Tor Jordan and Devon they're just like you said they're leaders they know

56:11 How to play the game it's like having a you know a bunch of bananas Johnny Bananas that like they're just we're talking about CT and then you've got bananas and eru with a laurel and Cara Maria they're not quite in that same seeing the angles sort of thing but they obviously incredibly good at the game but when you have a Jordan and Devon combined like that's a hell of a combination man that they'll see everything and you've got all the angles covered between on this team so I think you did pretty good as far as picking a lot of those people listen it was definitely by mistake I'm not going to claim it as a master plan strategy to do that but I felt a little bit better having got so having chosen so many erow 3 players in my team Britany saying R 3 showed how well balanced they are too everyone was being a team player and stepped up when need it makes Tony's decision even dumber because he was on a good team very true the more I think about it really bad strategy from especially if you could have just waited and then noticed that targets were going to have to get picked every single week like this really opens up the game for people that I spoke about the loose change the alliance if you put a bunch of coins together it can become a lot right and they even spoke about this in the beginning of the episode with karia and a couple of other people

57:32 Should the outcast just do our own thing so I do think that there was probably room for him to still move in and in my mind it's never a good idea to throw yourself into the game so early on and I don't know if this ever been confirmed kuna but I'm pretty sure they get paid more by appearance like if they were to get deeper in the game they get more pay for it right because they're technically working for longer yeah they get a yeah they get more they get paid per episode yeah now we spoke about the fact that as soon as they got to the shore they had to do the eating challenge I don't think we have to go too much into it I know people love the eating challenge it's my worst nightmare if I was able to go out there and play this game to gobble down that food how well would you have done on the putting all the different logos together like I for Survivor I think I'll put my hand up and say I could probably smash it out but I think in the challenge I would have been in some trouble if I was out there yeah no oh not very good at all maybe from like late teens or 20 onwards second half like those early Seasons get a bit murky when like they're so similar and yeah I don't know yeah totally agree kiwi has just made it back onto the live as well said made it Tony is an idiot kiwi if you do have an opportunity to go and listen

58:52 To the start I think we spent a lot of time on Tony's decision did he quit did he not quit we looked at every single possible angle on that right but I think we've definitely come to the conclusion that he is an idiot we agree with you on that to go in so early Brit Britany saying era 3 showed how well Bal we already saw that Chris is saying hate the eating challenge I would be okay if those just stopped being on the show totally agree there's nothing good about watching people vomit in front of us on screen like I just don't find any enjoyment out of that like it's like what are we doing here but there are probably challenge fans out there I'm sure that really enjoy seeing people struggle right one thing I do like about the eating challenges is that okay first of all one bad thing about the eating challenge is that it basically birthed Tony time into being a thing like he's a superstar at eating challenges so and he did well again like I hate that's the thing but I do like that it humbles people like a fessie or something like fessie is has never been able to do anything eating challenge as big as he is he says he can literally beat anyone in challenge history in a physical elimination but you put food in front of him and he crumbles like I kind of love that you know I mean whereas you probably feel you're the fessie in this in this regard that's

1:00:12 Why you hate it this is the only time I wouldn't mind being compared to FY like let me put that on the record and I would agree with this but let's not compare me to him in any other regard but no I totally agree with you I think it would be really gross to do one of those things but Britany brings up a really interesting comment here which I did want to dive into Nia said that Tori was practicing the seasons the night before isn't that just a little bit convenient Kona you know we know she's got friends in production Nia said kyin was actually the one like studying like teaching her going through it all coaching her through it and then right three just followed yeah kylin was the one coaching her so it did work very well for Tori but and so people were like cuz they're different errors and they're like kyl why did you help her essentially win the thing and yeah but kylin's like me helping her was me studying like it made me better like that's what I was doing so Chris is saying also I don't know if this is unpopular opinion but I hate how the eating challenge is a risk to people with dietary restrictions sure the vegans got a win today it's good to see that the show is moving forward for vegans cuz remember not that long ago I think it was all star 3 there was no

1:01:32 Exceptions made for n which now they are making those exceptions it's really good to see and then Chris says but fessel also has dietary restrictions which I have mentioned before due to his religion I don't like him potentially compromising that because the food that he's eating isn't Halal and I totally agree we should make if you know that there's someone in the game with specific religious restrictions and we should regardless on if you believe in that religion or not we should respect each other's beliefs and I feel like you should amend the game in accordance especially now that they're doing it for vegans I hope they do also take that into consideration for fessel in the future right so and like I said I don't believe the tofu would have been as bad as anything like tofu even if they make it really nasty can't be as bad as eating a brain right there just no ways oh yeah I don't know I tofu in general is I'm not going anywhere near but I've heard stinky tofu is not great and then you have Duan as well like it could be a combination yeah Brit says I would have pretended to be vegan their options are inheritant easier definitely looks better kiwi said that's not why Fel didn't eat he just pu c but yeah so love it when kiwi just comes straight in like Tony is an idiot

1:02:52 Vessel's a yeah it's like K doesn't have time tonight to be like for any pleasantries it's like midnight over in New Zealand right now so it's like straight to the point guys let's call a spade a spade but yeah so like I said love I kind of like the daily challenge I thought it was good I thought it was a really well put together challenge they had a couple of different aspects to it almost felt like a Survivor challenge because they had to go through different things and then do like some sort of a puzzle at the end you know so hats off to era 3 for dominating era 2 in second place era four in third place with era one really lacking behind here not having a good day at the office at all now when that came to the deliberation there was a really big betrayal by derell once again showing that you know loyalty isn't something that he brings into the game of his own neck is on the line which I don't blame him for it but you know someone like aiv who hasn't played this game a long time really took offense to the fact that he was ready to throw her under the bus what did you think about the whole aiv and Dalal situation when aiv potentially was at risk of going in he said I'd rather go up against D and aiv yeah I mean there's a reason why darl's not hasn't won in 20 years right like he's one of the best team players

1:04:13 The games ever seen But the social navigation the politics all that it's just not in his bag and I think this was a demonstration of how yes when you look when you're sitting in that on that table and you're looking across at kylin and Casey or Derek and aiv I too would want to he made the smart decision I just think he could have like bessed it better or you know like he could have said look I would love to I think I have a better chance against Derek I would rather go against Derek but I don't want to throw a ve under the bus right like you how do these people not like and it seems like every season these kind of mistakes get made like they don't it's like it's almost like a level of EQ missing with some of these people and it's like I'm not going to sugar coat it this is what I want let's get it done like you know could made wishes known to the people picking without really like just flat out calling like and he said a like he said a first I think he was like a and Derek like very specifically so it's a tough call I get why's hurt but when you again she should know as well I have this thing I've never been there I haven't been on a show but I just have this thought in my head like they should understand like they get it yeah

1:05:33 I would not want to go against Casey and kylin either I get it but yeah again the emotional side of it being betrayed like I don't understand what it's like you know so it's tough britan is saying derell was too was so messy this episode I loved it and kiwi says LOL with a thing I was shocked but understood his decision and Brit says and this is something I did want to talk about it was also so nice to hear derell admit that he wants to win so he could solidify himself as one of the greats I didn't realize he really cared about that because we spoke about this a while ago and we have spoken about this on the podcast a lot he's one of those people that have heard his legacy when it comes to being considered as one of the goats like he is a legend of the game but even he admitted himself that he's not in Jordan C and bananas's league but if he could get another win he could be in the conversation with them which probably very true you know and it is good to see that he's still chasing that he still got the hunger to win another championship and he got very close in All Stars very close yeah I don't know if it's true though like he says it but he's never really shown that he's changed his game or approached things all that differently he's always been very competent when it comes to challenges and eliminations but you've said so many times that what you appreciate about

1:06:54 Josh is that he works on his game and comes back the physical side we've seen people go Nelly T becomes scuba nelli that was kind of but like people say they work on aspects of their game that are weaknesses right they learn puzzles they do maths derell has never done the politicking social like he has not adapted his game at all ever he's still plays the old school challenge game yeah D saying d fifth all time because he's won four times he is yeah he's up there when it comes to championships yeah so yeah so we obviously have the round table happening Casey fighting in the round table was very entertaining to watch really enjoyed that part of the game and then we went into the party night bringing back the old school Vibes for the challenge with a toga time you know like what did you think of the to time and getting everybody dressing up and you know having a lot of fun and even I don't know how you felt about it felt good hearing CT say man I missed this like this feels like all times we haven't had this in recent times because CT has seen it from what it used to be to what it is now which it's all game no play and they're bringing back a little bit of play do you think that this is something that will

1:08:14 Rub off on the newer players and they'll be like oh this is actually fun like we should do this when era four continues on or era 3 continues on with the legacy of what the challenge is going to become in the future do you think that this will rub off on them and that maybe having era one and two come into this game this is something that will stay moving forward I certainly hope so because it is fun like having that extra bit of Liberty in there they do have the club scene or the party scene or whatever but like when CT says I miss this I miss the good F Good Vibes like to bring up fessie again one of the most recent times CT's been on the season at the party scene he gets called out and nearly gets into a fight and brings out old TT so like you know it doesn't have the same party Vibes even though they have the party scene there's so much strategy talk there's politicking whereas this they kind of seem to forget it and just had fun with it maybe it's the costume thing maybe it's like you I don't think you can have a serious conversation in a toga perhaps maybe that's they dress they dress up in the new ones as well like I've seen them dress up before thing maybe toas is the Good Vibes BR saying openly saying that he wanted to go against like that

1:09:35 Sorry some of these people are just so ridiculously goodlooking like to wear to far out mate like they're on the TV show they're not they're not getting Riff Raff to go on the TV show they're getting people with some good bodies going out there BR saying I think derell openly saying that he wanted to go against era 2 as him trying to change in the past wouldn't have he would have avoided that question du saying we see this on All Stars it's Flagship that's lame Jenny carry bananas like a baby so easy that is that is impressive Jenny is strong Jenny is strong like really impressive stuff from her Britany saying the toer party was fun because they were open to looking kind of ridiculous the newer players tend to be worried about how they're going to be perceived very true kiwi is also saying I like that duo did you see her muscles yeah very impressive like Jenny is an absolute Beast so yeah just a fun scene and it and it led to a lot of the hookups as well this one this is where the hookup scene sort of came the Josh drama of it all came from that which we spoke about earlier on as well but let's talk a little bit about the arena the elimination as we get towards the end of the podcast here we haven't spoken this probably the last part we need to talk about what did you think of the actual elimination after we had four of the best B

1:10:55 Eliminations of all time we go into this elimination where they had to do some sort of puzzle piece where they couldn't have certain colors match each other would you have been like Tony a little bit and get confused throughout this did you think it was visually really exciting to watch what was your thoughts on this not a fan I was not a fan like I do appreciate the raw elements of it like the fact that it's got these massive that essentially becomes an endurance challenge mixed with a memory and a puzzle at the same time like I appreciate that but yeah it was kind of boring you had the help of the crowd again basic to me influencing so much I don't like it's always the case and look I know it's like a TV edit and stuff but like when I'm sitting at home and I know for a fact I have to be if I'm not like there's something wrong with me but I have to be smarter than Tony I think I am anyway but if I'm sitting at wait what was it again yellow can't touch like when you can't watch a challenge and understand what's actually wrong or right or look at it go no he got it wrong like that's part of the fun right yeah you want to be a part of it yeah and you can go ah they missed one they missed one they got to go back they got

1:12:15 To back but I don't even know what's happening like wasn't the GRE and they changed the there's no blue how did they not have blue there suddenly like there wasn't blue like from the men to the women as well right so even if you got it for the men I think it was different for the women and I'm when it's that hard to get your head around it's hard it's hard to get invested in as well you know what I mean you're just kind of seeing these people run back and forth do you think that both do you think that both competitors and I just watched it once so maybe some people in the live will know did both competitors have a different sequence of colors that they had to build to the end or was it the same and if it was the same would the strategy for Tony have been let me just follow derell peace for pece and then outrun him because his back's hurting he's not as fast as me and I will place the last one before him to win it well I think the description on the board was the same so they could have if the was working it could have worked to copy him like I think it's one of those things where there's obviously different com it would work in many combinations but you're right like if he just copied him exactly oh was DB saying is different okay yeah and Elise is saying as soon as I saw Alise welcome to the live by the way saying as soon as I saw

1:13:35 He had to read instructions I knew he was going to lose El say hey K I'm fashionably late to the party again welcome to the live Elise it's been a very Lively live as well we've had we've had plenty of discussions back and forth with the live we've gone and looked at a lot of things in different angles big chat on Tony if he quit or he didn't quit or what if the move was good or bad I think we all ended up with it not being good but there was some fun along the way and trying to dissect and sort of get our thoughts out there on this whole move and then Avery is a badass because she ended up following through her friend and she got it done but yeah I agree with you something felt off for me in this one and I didn't know quite what it was but I agree I think you H the nail on the head when it's when it's too complex for you as an audience member to understand what's going right or wrong and who's in the lead it's not as fun to watch you want to feel like you're a part of it so for me on that basis alone like it wasn't bad I like that they mix it up and not every single arena is just physicality like this one did require some brains it did require some Brawn some endurance like it's hitting all the different elements that you'd like to see in Arena so from that point it's good but it's just as a spectator are you allowed or are you invited into it where you can follow it quite easily this is definitely

1:14:55 Not the only elimination that can get confusing for a viewer they've done many others in the past it's just I feel like when they do this it just gets it slightly wrong for me yeah and I mean when you look at if you were to sort of cast a analytical eye the last week we saw what is considered four classic challenges right we sort of questioned the lot the tie up thing but as far as Paul wrestle Hall brawl and balls in they are the most rudimentary basic almost like cavan type competitive thing like I run at you run at me who win like it like it's the most bass nature of us as evolved beings to like what is so when you start getting to that level of complexity it's so much harder to follow whereas the simple ones the most simple ones ever on the challenge also just happened to be the fan favorites the classics like what does that tell you know what I mean like it's interesting that sort of yeah you know saying that we needed Casey should have explained the rules to us we would have understood it in that case that was the missing piece Ki is saying I was very late

1:16:16 Too saying let's see what else is going on here Bri saying I actually like the audience participation because it was funny that everyone was so confused yeah true a couple of them actually got it wrong and they like oh no you need to go back and restack it was good even to see even though they were all upset about Tony throwing himself in they would like Jordan and Devon Still trying to help him get out of it they're like we're going to try and get you out of it we need numbers in this game no team yeah you know what's interesting though I think both kylin and Casey would have walked like would have freaking destroyed that on both for both of them yeah d k yeah klin walks over derel I think Casey would have walked over I think so yeah kin's been in derell before right so he could have easily have done it again and he's quite smart and I think Casey would have done extremely well as well she's really good at puzzles and fit so kiwi said here not sure if Tony quit easily could believe it as he didn't appear to argue but did we see everything and that's what I was saying and I was looking at a lot of different angles but we didn't talk about the fact didn't deny it and that is a really good observation because if you don't want to be known as a quitter you probably would deny that pretty quickly du saying maybe it was the same for the men but different for the women

1:17:36 Alis saying yeah respect to Avery I'm also stubborn I'm not going to turn on someone I've known for years that's true Ki saying yeah that makes more sense they can't copy K says not sure what I'd do in Avery's position I don't think Derek would end his friendship with her over it might be upset for a bit think Derek should have if he like we spoke about this it's very one-sided Derek was more than happy for her to step in front of the bus he could have gone back and been like hey our friendship means more to me I don't want you to take a bullet for me you know in this scenario and that didn't happen so D didn't really have a choice though did he I could have still told every like hey I don't want you to I don't like you don't have to yeah he could have said to her F your vote yeah it's okay go with Tony yeah ease her of the guilt yeah Britany is saying was fun to see TJ P he looked like he was disappointed in Tony totally true IL said Derek wouldn't know but the guys have gotten away with strong arming girls Johnny did it to Nani and free agents I'll make you cave before I do yep that's true kiwi says yes exactly Chris no denial W says Deon and Jordan helping is about self-preservation he'd be a buffer for them 100% totally agree with that I think we spoke about everything that we could have spoken about in this

1:18:56 Podcast is there anything that you feel like you wanted to bring up that we maybe didn't address no it's good yeah I think we spoke about everything so everybody in the live thank you so much for jumping in we actually had between YouTube and Twitter where we were streaming tonight or X I should say we had 65 people watching us live which is quite phenomenal numbers because we com in at a very different time when we when we do this live so thank you everybody for jumping on especially if you're in the states and you're doing this very early on in the morning I really appreciate it and you know everybody jumping on like Chris here our friendly moderator that always keeps the chat and check but they've been behaving really well so not much work needed we really appreciate everybody jumping in and taking part in the conversation if you like what we do if you like all of the content that we're pumping out survivors about to come back so there will be some us Survivor content dropping on the channel at some stage as well please subscribe to the channel hit the like on it and leave comments what did you agree with what would what did you disagree with where were we completely off the mark this week I always love reading those comments throughout the week but for now I'm going to say goodbye and we will see you guys next week thanks everybody bye