The Challenge 40: Episode 4 Discussion

0:00 [music] [music] [music] Welcome back to the nullified tech channel on YouTube where we've got the TNT takes for you on the challenge episode 4.

1:01 That is right. I'm your host Chris and with me again today is Kahuna Kuna. How are you doing buddy? M I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I was I was battling sickness over the long the weekend. but I'm I've come good just in time for another episode of the challenge and I'm I'm feeling very mixed about this episode. very mixed about this episode because I did this thing like years ago, right? I really got into like NRL tipping comp and or fantasy the fantasy like and I do I get pretty obsessive about it and I came like top 100 out of like 30,000 people or whatever. I just like I focus on that sort of thing. And I think like winning our three fantasy drafts undefeated so far, I find that I focus on Oh, that was a that was a that was a confessional.

1:54 That was a confessional. That was a thing. Like, and I, you know, so I end up not watching it with as much just relaxing joy, but I'm trying to pick, [clears throat] did I get a point there? Is that good for me? Oh, Josh is having a good episode. There's Oh, there's a Tina. there's a so you know I'm point but you do pay more attention right so now I'm mixed because I'm getting some good content for my people but I'm also getting my people eliminating each other and stuff and there's a you know so I [laughter] don't know how to feel about the way my challenge is going at the moment I don't know it's kind of strange like I've done reasonably well in some of the drafts that we've done on the channel and because of that you know similar to you I took it very seriously but I feel like the drafts actually kind of took a little sort of the joy out of the show for me. So, I actually made a very conscious effort coming into the challenge 40 to Yeah.

2:45 Firstly, a lot of people told me afterwards that my draft sucks and that there's no chance I can win. So, I've kind of made peace with it. Most people out there probably know the spoilers, so none of my people are going to win this season. So, I'm actually just sitting back relaxing, enjoying it. I can't even remember who I picked. It's like what happened? It's like a distant memory for me by now. and I'm just really I'm just here for the ride this season when it comes to the challenge 40. I'm just I'm along for the ride. I'm not taking it too seriously. I'm loving the goofiness of it all. I know there is a lot of drama after this episode. A lot of controversy and we definitely will be getting into some of it. I've got a couple of things, clips and that on X that I'll bring up that is quite interesting when we get to the actual elimination part of the show. But let's say hello for like all the people here in the live that are waking up at 7 am in the morning that are here to talk some challenge with us. We really appreciate it.

3:35 Aaron is the first person to be he was up at 6:00 a.m. saying, "I'll be walking the dogs, but love and miss you guys. One day I'll catch the live lol. But please note my feelings on the elimination. It is so rigged. All capitals as boring all capitals as you think is Chris. I call BS." And we will talk about that. We'll definitely get into all of that when we talk about the elimination. So a stick around that is coming up. Danica saying, "I'll be listening, but getting everyone ready for work and of course driving. Maybe by 8 I'll be able to hop on." We hope to see you on a little bit later then, Danica. And Chris is saying, "So excited Dariel's take on this episode." we will have plenty of takes. I don't know if everybody's going to agree with us all the time. That's what we do here on the nullified take, but we'll have takes to share. That's for sure.

4:25 And then, Chris is saying, "I'll be safely rushing to work so I can respond to those takes." Joshua Johnson, welcome to the live. Probably the first time I've seen finally made it to my first live with you guys. Welcome. tell us Joshua, who are you shouting for this season? We need to know. Who does Joshua have? Are you team Jordan? Are you team Jenny? Are you team Tory like Kahuna? We need to know. Or are you team Cory like your boy Chris? I need to know this, right? Or team Kyro Maria. and then Danica saying, "I felt bad for all three guys nominated. didn't want any of them to go home. Also proud of Ana. She went up against a beast and if she hadn't dropped that ball, she might have pulled it off and we're definitely going to talk about that. Britany saying, "Another strong episode." Sam is saying, "I woke up to defend Herasio's honor. Love it, Sam. That is some true dedication and we will be talking about it." And Kansas James saying, "Good morning from Chicago.

5:21 So glad to catch live." Thank you for being here for a live, especially because it's so early in the morning. We really appreciate all our United States you know fellow fans of the challenge that are waking like the challenge fans kuna they're a different breed right different breed I love that it's his name's Kansas hi from Chicago just [laughter] just to mix it up yeah love it absolutely love it but yeah we get into the beginning of this episode you know there's a lot of talk between era 3 and there's going to be a rotation of people who are going to be nominating themselves to go in They applaud Jordan for stepping up, being the first person to throw his hat in the ring, you know. and we all spoke about that, Kahuna, that, you know, Jordan is someone that is a beast at this game, but he's got the kahunas to actually put himself, you know, play on words there to put himself out there.

6:11 But we kind of find out that this is a thing that they were going to do all of them within it. And there is this talk about like when the next one comes around, who's going to be the next person on it? It's probably going to be Corey. what did you think of the strategy where they're trying to keep cohesion within the team instead of having a backstabby type of game going on where the team don't trust each other, they all get their turn. So, trying to play nice and trying to keep that cohesion within the team. Did you like this strategy and this angle that Era 3 is going in the game? I did. I loved it because like on a team like Era 3 as well where there doesn't seem to be any standout deficiencies, right? like you haven't got the clearly weak player like unless you start turning on each other and putting it like how do you determine that is making it the fairest way possible and the fact that they analyzed and said look at error one they're like sniping at each other like hating on each other because of the way they have to pick each other if we can just say that we're going to do it knowing full well that we'll all have a chance you know easy like it's going to happen eventually.

7:21 Own it kind of thing. But it does rely on people sticking to it, which is such which is always the fascinating part, isn't it? [laughter] Yeah. Well, do I mean it's one thing to put your hand up when your time has come like Jordan did, but not many people have got the confidence. Like Jordan's got that cocky confidence like no matter what situation I'm in, I'm going to be either able to talk myself out of it or if I have to go into the ring, my skill set's insane. and I can probably come back from any kind of elimination in most scenarios. So, obviously as this episode plays on, we definitely see that's something that Cory's not going to going to going to hold his word to, you know, because I guess we're jumping a little bit ahead, but we do this on the podcast all the time. So, let's talk about it. CT nominates himself, and that kind of gets I think both Cory and Josh scurred out there.

8:12 They're not they're not they're not planning on going against the big dog anytime soon. I mean, I would do the same thing. Like, I talk a big game until CT puts his hand up first. And he like not only did he didn't get picked, he like straight up hand was like in the air. Like that's a it doesn't matter how old he gets, the intimidation factor is strong, especially against people that he's beaten before. He literally calls a goof and [laughter] embarrasses. that's hard. Like you don't want to go up against that, you know, like at least limit your chances of going up against it. Yeah, totally. Let's read what people are saying here. Doo saying always team Jordan. And he's got a little goat symbol. I didn't even know you get that little goat icon or emoji out there. So, I'm going to have to start using that a bit more as well.

9:03 BBG95 is saying, "I'm team Jordan and Jenny." Britany is saying Jordan basically caused a ripple effect by volunteering himself, which is very smart on his end. Unfortunately, Cory backtracked quickly. and do you think this is going to have some repercussions for Cory in this game, Kahuna? Because, you know, he's now seen as someone probably that's not going to stick to his word. and you know, it's when in the challenge, your word is your bond. If you don't follow through with your word, surely there's going to be some backlash within that era with Cory not stepping up here. I don't know. like I guess they probably would be because Devin is so insul insulated, right? Cory is on the outs already like as far as the inner circle goes, he's have he's got a good relationship with everyone at the moment pretty much because they've been getting along, right?

9:58 So if that's not the case and Devon feels slighted by this or Tori feels slighted after Devon maybe goes out or something like that, you know what I mean? like there could be repercussions if the impact is big enough. If they don't go down or if they win or Deon goes down and then he wins, maybe the victory kind of sweeps that aside cuz it's not like he actually nominated him. He just didn't put his hand up. You know what I mean? Like it's a more passive slap as opposed to You know what I mean? Like it's you Yeah. It's not that much of a of a betrayal to just not throw yourself in. You know what I mean? No. No. We've experienced some real growth with Kahuna on the channel. You know, this is what our first season podcasting together. I give you I give you the biggest layup that I could possibly give you to dunk on Cory and him ducking the challenge here, not following on his word, and you choose not to take it.

10:56 And I love seeing this growth. like, you know, we need to talk about the growth of another character on the season. I kind of applauded Josh for not overreacting in the previous episode when, you know, I think it was Kylin ended up swooping in and having some fun with Nia and we said, listen, maybe Josh came from a good place and there was this fight against Tori and I was kind of like, I don't know, some people were still not on the Josh train, but I could see why he was upset. But then he in this episode kind of completely back backtracks with Tori, right? It's really weird. It's like okay well Josh what are you doing? Like either follow through with being done with Tori or you know just don't do it. Like it's again it's kind of almost like he created that drama so there could be a storyline on the show which Josh has been guilty of previously I feel like on the challenge right?

11:46 No I don't think that's it. I think I think you think it's genuine. No, Josh is just a hotthead, right? And he's an emotional crybaby. And he had a cry. And then after he realized, oh I just told my friend, "I don't want to be friends anymore." Like that was like he was like, "Hey, I maybe went a step too far. I was upset. I get it. I said something stupid. Let's wind that back a little bit because maybe we can still be friends after just laughing at a little thing when I was hurt." You know what? Like Yeah. I don't think he necessarily owed her an apology. Saman B saying Josh did not owe Tori an apology. I don't necessarily think he owed her apology, but I do think it says a lot about Josh that he can realize when he thinks he's done something wrong, he'll admit it. There are so many people that be like, "Nah, sticking to my guns. F her." Like to what end?

12:37 To what benefit? Like even if you're thinking strategically, which he doesn't cuz he's, you know, a big dummy, but essentially a good guy, right? even if you're thinking strategically, does he really want to cut off Tory in this game? You know, like, yeah, I don't think so. And I know that there were a lot of vacation alliance fans who were up in arms. They were, you know, besides themselves thinking that the vacation Alliance are going to come crumbling down and this is a thing of the past now. But, you know, Josh came to the rescue for those fans and resurrected that alliance. a lot of them still in this game. So, I think it's going to be tough to get rid of them as long as a lot of those players are still out there playing the game. But, let's see a few more comments here. Joshua saying, "I'm team Cory, but I was also writing hard for Herasio, Narice, and Kylin, so my heart is breaking right now. It's looking tough." Joshua, it's looking really tough if you're a fan of all of those players.

13:30 Daboo is saying, "Jordan said he volunteered because there are more options to go against in a limb." as show goes on, it will get messy for people like Cory, so why not do it first? Totally true. Danny also says, "But Tina and CT stepped up at the end, unlike Josh and Cory." That is true. Sam says, "The only one being upset about going in on Era 1 was Ana, unfortunately." And Ana had a big episode. She Yeah, exactly. But she's also had a big another big episode here, Kuna. you know, the show really tries to get us behind Ana. I feel like with the whole story of her running a final and there's this very pure moment between her and Jenny West where they talk about you know, body shaming and how that can be a really big thing. And we see her injure herself, work her way back to being out there again.

14:24 And as soon as we saw that scene, firstly, I knew this was not going to end well. And whenever you see two players bond and there's a pure moment, you're like, "Oh, no. this is pointing towards something ominous towards the end of the episode which obviously meant that they had to face each other. But what did you think of this episode as a whole? Do you relate kind of with someone like Ana? Obviously you've gone through your own journey. You've had your own experience. Can you kind of see where she's coming from with this? Like I really feel like the show was trying to show us a different side to Ana a little bit here and maybe trying to get us to understand why she comes across as someone that's always complaining about not winning a final, people not letting her get to a final or they think that she's not an asset. Maybe show us a different angle of Ana's life and her struggles right at the moment on the show and trying to keep up with the young kids. Yeah, I loved all of this.

15:15 I hated that Ana gone home cuz but you I'm a fan of Ana. I've backed her the entire time and I always feel like my Tori love and my Ana love is like a double thing that just gets me so much hate in the challenge for the fact that I actually like Ana. She's a beautiful black queen and I love her. and it first of all as well I the fact that it showed that injury when people like oh she rolled her ankles cuz she knew she couldn't have she just said she rolled her ankle. Holy crap. I didn't know it was that serious. Like a full Yeah, they make me look bad. I was I was literally saying that the previous podcast, so it made me look really for saying that. I didn't call you out, man. I didn't I [laughter] didn't call. Hey, I owe it. I owe it. Like, I'll own it.

16:05 If I say it, I'll own it. See how that's We're good that way. I'll admit it when Cory's awesome, too. No, like But I didn't realize it was that significant. That's that was, you know, I hope that put a little bit of the conspiracy theories or the hate to bed there, but I mean, she showed that she's she can do stuff. She is a bit of an asset. I think she's probably more of an asset than Tina, to be honest with you. you know, people are not going to like that comment. Like, Tina's loved in the in the challenge, especially the old school challenge. I love Tina, too. I picked her specifically because of how, you know, I knew she fun. Sorry. She's entertaining at least. Like I feel like Tina's more entertaining for me than Ana. She came up with a Lemona, you know. That's what she does. [laughter] Like that's how entertaining she is. Like so I'm glad that Ana got her shine.

16:57 I'm sad that she got home, but gone home, but it did show that she was competitive in, you know, up against someone like Jenny, who by the way, I fell in love with Jenny in this episode. She's just the sweetest like most lovely person in the entire world. I think to be that encouraging to be that encouraging of Ana like when like I know as well like being big as well going through whatever transformation the judgment you get from some other people that not necessarily even from a bad place but the you know here's how you can fix yourself here's the thing and she's her coach I know but she does it in such a supportive way saying you are awesome already you know like the way you are yeah I loved She was so sweet. Like I couldn't believe like she's too good for this show. You know what I mean? And I guess that's why she hasn't been on cuz like you're a nice person and we don't want to corrupt this wonderful like angel.

17:54 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if she ends up being on the show for like 10 seasons straight or something, I feel like Jenny would change. Like you see so many people change on reality TV when they come back season after season and they're forced to stab their friends in the back out there. Let's read a few more comments. Britany here says Jos did back out, but honestly it was smart on his end because Kylin doesn't have the numbers to do anything about it. That is completely true. Kylin's upset, but what you going to do about it? you know, Josh definitely has the power in the game. Dolores says, "What I find weird is sort of an evolution is I could not stand Kylin and Big Brother, but I really am all right with him on the challenge. He has surprised me in a good way." And I think this points out to something that I've said a few times, Kahuna, on podcasts before. I don't know if I said it on the challenge or not, but you know, the challenge is unique where we get to see people come back season after season where, you know, if you go out and play Survivor, if you go out and play big brother and you're having a really shitty moment and like we all know that we have our good and our bad days, like there's just those days when you woke up and you're not a great person to be around, like maybe you say the wrong thing to the misses and she's pissed off, the kids are annoying you on that day and it has a ripple effect.

19:05 Right now on reality TV when you do Big Brother or you do Survivor that could literally be your season. You could have that one off moment and you can never redeem yourself. You can never come back. And I don't think that people are not in general people are not stagnant. We all grow. We either grow to be better human beings or we become worse. And in Kylin's way I feel like he's grown. Yeah. I think he's grown a lot and we just we're seeing the true Kylin. I think he is a bit of a sweetheart. But I also think, you know, he's talked about autism and things like that he struggles with. It's like sometimes maybe he doesn't say the right thing and it comes out across the wrong way. And it's not like he's trying to be this bad guy. It's just I think people looked at it in the beginning and they don't they didn't have that understanding of Kyle and the person, right? Where on the challenge we see him come back season after season, you get a better sort of feel for who he is. Yeah, absolutely. Like there's so many, like you said, people grow, people change, not only with age, but if there was ever a trigger or an impetus to get you to change is something like going on a, you know, reality TV show like, and people criticizing, people saying they don't like you, blah.

20:12 If there was anything to make you sort of change, it would be something like that, coupled with maturity, coupled with growing in age, coupled with more experience in the world and blah. Like there's so much that goes into it that it makes sense that you that people become more attached to these people because they can get better over time or sometimes get worse. Laurel, [laughter] we're definitely going to be talking about the Laurel moments. I feel like I was one of the real ones that saw through some of the Laurel BS very early on. I've never been a fan of Laurel because of how she treated Cara from the very beginning. I could tell she was a bit of a bully. and that's what Derell called her this episode. but Sam B here says, "Joss did not owe Tori an apology." Dolores says, "Devon just had one of those faces.

21:02 I find myself laughing anymore." Akuna, Jos is a teddy bear. And I think that was a comment because Britney said, "Also, the look of disgust on Devon's face when Jenny said his name was hilarious." Du says, "Casey probably told Joss to have a conversation. It's strategic." Yes, Casey went absolutely missing in this episode. We didn't get to see much of her at all, which is kind of strange, but she'll come back. Britany says, "I agree with you, Chris. The combo between Tori and Jos didn't make sense. It was very gamecoded. We need each other in the game, so let's get it over with." Definitely has to do with the alliance, I think. and keeping them together. Chris says, "Thank goodness, Tori and Jos, mate. I'm nothing without the vacation alliance." See, one of the true vacation stands. We'll have to clip this short of Chris admitting on the nullified take channel for the first time. She's a true vacation alliance fan and that all is saved and well in this world now that Josh and Tori has made up.

21:58 Hannah saying early birds, I was rooting for Ana and this. So, another Ana fan there with you. So, there are some Ana fans out there. Kuna, you can you can fly your Ana flag high and know that there are other people that agree with you that she is she's a challenge legend. Daboo here. Cesa is a liability. Good riders. If [laughter] you can't win with Jordan, then no need to even be there. Injury was excuses for inevitable flop. so yeah, listen, I personally after all of this. Yeah, it's amazing. Like, listen, that is the thing. I want to say we appreciate everybody's views and takes on this channel when it comes to who you love, who you hate. I love it. I love the fact that the fans can be so divided on someone. I still am not a Nissa fan. I really appreciate where she's coming from. I really appreciate that there's a lot of difficulty that she's working through, but doing that on a show like the challenge where you need to compete and no one's going to give you a final, no one's going to give you a championship.

22:56 Like I'm sorry, you got to bring it. You got to bring it, you know. And maybe I do have like a little bit of a tough hardcore approach to it, but I get where Daboo is coming from. Sam says, "Was rooting for Ana, too. She's complex, but I do think a lot of hate and body shaming and that is never good." So, for me, I don't think we've ever body shamed her on this channel. We never will do that either. and I did want to say as someone that has said on the podcast that Ana has to work on her cardio. She gasses out, she did phenomenal in this elimination to keep up with Jenny West 40, man. Or more than 40. Yeah. Hate it. But except that she like who would have if you had bookie odds prior to this elimination how close this was going to be. I don't feel like you know you would have made a buck if you put that there was going to be like one or two of those whether they call the things that they were putting into the board.

23:56 Yeah. There were like one or two jacks between them. Like I don't think anybody would have put money on that. Like you would have thought Jenny West was going to blow this one out of the water. Speaking of blow, she was blowing wind like just sucking so much oxygen said she felt like she was just getting choked. Like when you're talking about endurance and the fact that Tina as well, by the if we're talking about the elimination, Tina said that Ana when she called Elimina is strong. Yeah. But she's also has gotten older. She's in her 40s, but she used to be when she was young. She's an athlete. like she's and she actually said she's more athletic than Jenny, which when you go, "What? What do you mean?" But this we've said this about Josh so many times, right? Athleticism and coordination is not about fitness, right?

24:46 Yeah. Because despite my overwhelming sizes at school, I couldn't run. But, you know, hand eye coordination, I was on the basketball team when we played cricket. I'm hitting sixes just like everyone else. I just didn't want to run up and down, you know? You know what I mean? Like, as far as athleticism and control and coordination, that's not about fitness and endurance. And like Jenny didn't have that. She said, "My both my friends are musicians." So, but it was shocking though because Jenny outran Bananas and the competition on a up on a mountain. Like, how did she go from being letting Ana have a bit of shine? Maybe I don't know. Like she said, struggling with I thought she was struggling with asthma or something at one point when she was struggling to breathe.

25:36 I was like, what's going on here? Because she was so good in that final. She blew it out of the park. She was the first one up the mountain. But maybe it's also it's a different kind of fitness because like you said, it was hand and eye coordination. You had to be able to throw or do like the basketball shot up onto the gutter and then it's explosive power. you're like doing these short bursts of explosive power, which is different to doing a long distance run, which maybe she hasn't trained for. And the way that I can sort of relate to that is that, you know, obviously I do obstacle course races. I do long distance running with obstacles and things like that. It takes a different kind of training when you play something like squash, a racket sport in a short enclosed space where you have to do explosive power, vertical lateral movement back and forth. you know, you gas out differently compared to doing like an endurance run. So, I feel like some of that may have had an effect ultimately on Jenny's performance in this specific elimination.

26:31 Let's see what other people are saying. Danica saying Ana could overtake 90% of the people out there. She represents a lot of her viewers and age and size. People pick on her, but in reality, she'd crush them. She barely lost to a beast. That is true. Like, listen, you got to put respect on her name because of how close this elimination was. and Jenny West is also a lot younger than her, right? So really showing that age is just the number as far as huffing and puffing. Like I listened to a bit of the official podcast that Ana was the guest and just at the start because I was coming on tonight. and they asked how long it was. So when you're talking about endurance, she said it was a bit over an hour. So that's non-stop, right? like and she was walking at one point like you know you're kind of walking it over but it's still an hour of non-stop back and forth. That's hard at least for me like maybe not for you but I hear and I go whoa.

27:25 [laughter] Britney says happy for Ana's performance. She said on IG live that she was using Jordan as a motivation coach during the limb. that's great. Obviously they've had that bond because they've been partners before. I'm sure Jordan's a great guy. he'd probably be shouting for her on the sideline to do well in the elimination. Kiwi also say, "Okay, I dislike Laurel even more than I already did. I never really like Laurel and she keeps confirming it for me." And then Britany says, "I still like Laurel. We say what we want drama." And I think Laurel is great. Britany for TV. I think we spoke about there needs to be heels in TV and people that we dislike and some people will even like the dislikable people and can relate to that to a certain degree. I'm with Kiwi on this one a little bit more but I can always appreciate Laurel as a character on the show as someone that is legendary as someone that has got a reputation.

28:18 But I want to bring up a clip here of when Laurel ultimately won the Daily. and for me this was very interesting to see this back and forth between Laurel and Dell. H like it just gives me vibes of some like high school kind like she just seems not mature when she's having a go at Dell there and like you know the whole back and forth like it takes me back to high school, right? Like what are we doing? She's in her 30s. Yeah. To just immediately win and her first thought is you, Daryl. like hey like that's weird like that's not normal to be in the fits of winning enjoying your team like the fact that you've that and your whole thing is to spite someone else.

29:09 Laurel is a broken person unfortunately and maybe it's because of you know peanut butter Nicole but she's got PTSD like really bad and I think she just lashes out at people because the fact that she equated Daryl being old man saw back and Emily a professional masseuse helping him with that and she equates that to cheating. This person sees cheating everywhere because it's happened to her so much that she thinks any kind of thing that hap like anything between it has to be cheating, right? Like she s she's her she's on such like hair trigger for it, she calls people out on like all the time cuz she's a broken person and she lashes out because of it. It's so kind of to see now after like I don't that's not the entertainment I like where I see someone that's just bitter.

30:07 You know what I mean? Just also and it's not her I mean it's her fault. I'm not I'm not taking accountability away. But there's obviously stuff has happened to her in her life that has made her this way. But it doesn't give her any excuse to treat people like And I don't like that just for the sake of entertainment because I know it's not like Johnny Bananas does some shitty stuff. People do shitty stuff, but from her it's from like a place I know that is like some really deep hurt and that feels bad to me. [laughter] You know what I mean? Like she's like a horrible person because she's been horrible things have happened to her. Listen, it's hard. Like I said, she's not doing herself any favors with these sort of moments that she has where she just latches out like out like this. And then, you know, like Sam B here says that the massage stuff with Emily was wild and could have been damaging to Dell in his real life.

31:02 Like, he's got like imagine that this was taken out of context by his wife. he's got kids, he's got a family. Like, it's just like it's game with Dell and she's making it personal. She's going beyond game, right? And she's damaging, trying to damage him and his reputation out there. and I've never liked Dell more than what I like him right now. Like just standing his ground being like, "You're like a what was like schoolyard bully or something like that he was saying." I was like, "That problem I have." The two like just looking at the two go at each other and she's going, "You're stupid. You're stupid." And he's like, "No one even asks you. No one's thinking about your ass. Like shut up." like he's so much higher above in the scale of who won that battle that she had to actually again go to the lowest possible like shittiest thing you can say to someone and potentially ruin their marriage and like that's how like she's looking like a freaking idiot as I said after winning where she should be happy and the most disgusting thing in the season so far like you know what I mean like to I think it would have been okay if she was like I think like we've seen moments before where somebody's like back at you stuff you try to target me and I think that's fine but it's the level that she goes after that when she was like the massage thing with

32:22 Emily I think that's just that step too far. I don't mind people taking shots and saying, "You try to come for me, you can't get me. I'm invincible." Right? There's a little bit of showmanship that goes with that. But it's that extra step she takes where she just crosses the line a little bit too far for me. Chris says, "If you clip that, it is already marked." Chris, it's going up on I'm just joking. I won't I won't put you on blast like that. Chris, I know you were being you were being joking when you were basically being what was the right word? being like sarcastic about the fact that you were happy that the vacation alliance is still a thing. let's see what other people are saying here. Hannah saying, "Did anyone catch the late night Maya and Tina live on IG? They gave their opinions on the Laurel and Devon popped in to aggressively say Derek didn't win that limb. It was rigged against Harasio." I don't think we were going to go into that immediately, but people are just giving so many good content to talk about, but very clearly on this episode, there was a moment where both of them were standing next to the finishing well, the board being finished, and this was the clip that we got, Kahuna, there was a hole still there where one of these jacks needed to get pegged into when the buzzer went on the show.

33:34 Do you think it was bad editing that caused this scene to like maybe they didn't have a better clip of Derek finishing? and did they challenge fans like Do they think that challenge fans don't Sorry. I think Devon's a troll. The way Devon was screaming at the camera cuz I've seen it and he's like, "Look at this. There's a Where the hell is the peg?" And he's screaming and he goes, "Horeshit. It's horseshit like that." Like and I think he's trolling because I know exact like once I saw that controversy I went holy crap this is the worst egregious production thing we've ever seen. We always think production's shady on them on the challenge and now it's just like the worst possible thing. But I know exactly what happened because I rewatched it and that peg was there for most of the challenge, right?

34:25 Until Derek picked up four things, fell went flying and threw all the pegs in his hand into the board and they and one of them fell out. so that's what happened why it wasn't up the end, but he did get it there first. So that's right what the confusion is. And I saw Scott Jagger actually say on Twitter, who's his Challenge Mania? They're going to talk about on the podcast when Challenge Mania comes out, but he said that like he got it on there first, it fell out and then it showed it later because that's the B-roll. Like after they finish production, they kind of do another shoot around the stadium and all that to get those little extra shots. But apparently there's a offscreen, never gets on screen, never on camera referee. And they all knew, they said that if it falls off, you leave it there. The women knew that as well, that if it falls off, they leave it.

35:17 And they'll count it as part of the thing because it got on the board. And that was the rule. It has to get there, not stay on there at the end kind of thing. So that's what they explained to both competitors before they started. They made it clear even if your peg falls off, don't worry about it. Like it's been in there, it's already count. Well, that's according to Scott Jerger, who is Derek's podcast buddy, right? So his wingman. Yeah. Yeah. So who knows? Who knows? But that was the explanation and it makes sense to me cuz I looked at it and it definitely was there and then I saw him throw the things it would have fallen it would have fallen off but I could see why Horasio was so casual at the end is because he looked over thinking Derek's got another one to go. The crowd is screaming that he's probably ahead because there's another one to go. So, Horasio probably got screwed in that he's thinking he's ahead when it's kind of a fell out productiony type thing.

36:13 But according like according to again Scott Jerger the rules were and you can hear I don't know if it's because everyone knows that TJ does a lot of his stuff ADR which means he records some of the voiceovers after the fact and they put it in cuz I listened very specifically. it just says you have to get the jacks to the board, right? Like he like I relist I was like, "Oh, he said it like almost very specifically that it's just about getting there kind of thing." So yeah, you know, it's Well, listen, if there's one thing challenge fans love, it's a it's a good conspiracy theory. Like I know I've been on many of podcasts with Chantel before where she's also like this is definitely rigged. This is something that happened. And sometimes the challenge don't do themselves any favors either. Another thing that looked really weird on the editing was how nonchalantly you know Harasio was putting his last one in.

37:08 He was not rushed when he did that at all. So that kind of as well like when I saw it. Yeah. And it maybe points towards the fact that like you said he looked back and there was a hole in the pecking board for Derek and he thought ah there's no rush. I'm cool. I can just place it in slowly. which maybe is what people are saying when they say that he was screwed because Arasi couldn't keep up. To me, it just makes sense that your that your Jack needs to be in at that point, right? that would should be that should be the difference between winning and losing, but again, we weren't there. It's very weird. it's a it's a shame that they have these moments on the challenge where it makes you question the game because that's kind of one of the things that made me fall out of love with cricket, right? Because for a long large period of time there in cricket there was so many controversies with betting and gambling happening and players getting bought to throw games basically and sometimes that even happened in boxing quite a bit right where it takes kind of the love of the sport away for you a little bit you don't want to watch it as much if you think it is rigged from the start and I can see that there's a few people here in the live that do think that it is very strange so let's see what people are saying very confusing still call on this.

38:20 Hannah saying Narice said on IG live that Arasio is retiring because he believes he won the Chris is saying to be honest I'm confused by the rigging allegations. Maybe they rigged it. Maybe they just messed up calling Derek the winner. But in my opinion, Hashi would have better a better win story line over Derek. Exactly. To me, it doesn't make anyense out of 10. Yeah. To me, it does not make sense that Derek won this because I was thinking to myself, who would you rather want to win at this point? Would you want the next generation guy to win who's going to be well now he may not come back and be there for future seasons but someone that could easily carry the show for the next 10 seasons or be a big part of the show for the next 10 seasons. Would you not rather have that guy win and build that guy's storyline where he took out the really what do they call Derek in the episode like the bulldog or whatever they called him like the Yeah.

39:11 Like you kind of want that story line. You want new legends to be created, right? If you want the show to last beyond season 40, 100%. Like Hasio is like they made in the face last season. He's good-looking. He's athletic. He's got it all as far as TV goes, except for maybe a little bit of personality, but he's definitely got like over someone who's been there 20 years and isn't really bringing new people to the show anymore, right? Like it's not like there's going to be all these young people or new things going oh this Derek guy on Allstars like you know like Herasio is certainly where you would rig it towards and make story lines around if you were able to. Yeah. One thing as well when you look at this picture here you can actually see that Derek you know he looks surprised like that's not the face of someone that's convinced that he won this thing either.

40:04 And you can see on Arasia's face, he's like, "What's happening? What's going on here?" Right? So, body language does tell you a lot as well. So, I do feel like there was some strange things happening within this specific moment, and maybe we're just not completely across it, so it's hard to comment, but maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle when it comes to this. and I know I got called out in the beginning by AR saying that I normally call Harasio boring and maybe I wouldn't have his back on this one, but you know, like I do think he is a bit boring for me, but I do think Arasio's got like I mean, like we said, he had longevity. He's a crazy athlete. I like seeing the athletic side of the competition and when he's there, he elevates the competition. So, it is sad if this is the last time that we're going to see him. It is sad that he's going to leave in this manner. I do want to backtrack a little bit though, Kuna, because we have fast forwarded all the way to the end here.

40:57 We kind of skip we kind of skipped over the daily itself being the fact that it was trivia. Did you enjoy the trivia or and how many of these questions would you have been able truthfully to answer correctly? Because to be honest, I would have struggled. I'm no angel cake. I'm no angel cake Drew. I don't have I don't have an encyclopedia of the challenge in my head. and it was actually quite heartwarming to know that the challengers themselves didn't even know the seasons that they were playing on what the right answers were. so I didn't feel as bad that I would have absolutely sucked at this. Yeah. Like normally trivia is like my favorite of all challenges like which is weird for the fans cuz I know TJ broke the fourth wall and actually looked at us the camera and he goes, "I know you hate trivia but we love it." Which I thought was really funny but I was like I love trivia TJ.

41:48 I'm with you buddy. It's like my favorite thing in the whole thing because I like answering them. I'm good at it. But this one was hard, man. Like I think I answered all the ones that weren't necessarily like who matched up who like knowing specific names. So like Oh no, I didn't know even the body of water and the city in Jamaica and all that sort of stuff. That was hard. But the ones I was proud of, I knew Jamie Chung was the actress. I knew Sean Duffy was a politician, you know. I knew the colors of the Colombian flag. [laughter] Yeah, I knew that one. I would have gotten that one cuz it wasn't really a challenge question. That was more like I don't know, geography or [laughter] something like that. yeah, it was it was funny seeing Jordan go up against the whole team at the end and just like sitting there.

42:40 And then obviously we had that moment with CT. one of the big reasons that we didn't actually pick CT or I didn't pick CT, I passed on him and I chose Deon. Yeah. Well, it could definitely come back to bite me in the butt. And I even said before we got to the point before we got to the point of selecting players, I actually said, well, would they actually show CT getting medacked from the game if he's not coming back? Like, surely you don't want that. That's like maybe a hook. And then I still didn't listen to my own advice and I picked Deon overse. Do you risk that with your number one pick? Like as a second I was playing amazing. Yeah, it's tough. I that I feel bad now as well cuz I'm like oh some letting CT go for like because of that it was scare but like yeah that was tough seeing that as well.

43:30 Like I felt every bit of it too. Even especially like when he walked back in. It wasn't a victori victorious like you know the jabs here. I heard he walked in and he goes [laughter] I was like yeah I got you. I feel that. See I know what it's like. He was like oh I'm a bit tender. [laughter] I'm like he's 45. Like this poor bastard. He just freaking smashed into the water as a middle-aged father. Oh my gosh, I can't even think about it. Yeah. so we got Chris here saying, "I love this trivia format. The points, the question, my favorite trivia challenge in a while." the fact that they could say how many points they were going for, which specific category of challenge questions they wanted to ask, hookups, geography, history, I can't remember all of the random was one of them.

44:26 They didn't have to answer in the form of a question. They didn't have to answer in the form of question. You didn't get that. It's a Jeopardy thing. So, yeah. The points format that they did is Jeopardy where you nominate. Yeah. So, they basically copy Jeopardy in this is what they were doing. Yeah. Nice. liked it. And then Mary is here. Hello from Mexico. Hello Mary. Welcome to the live. Hannah's saying it wasn't even multiple choice. Kiwi says, "Yes, same Chris. It was good except for CT. Obviously, that was not good." And then Dolores said, "TJ made me smile too on that trivia." Britney saying, "I like the trivia. They really went back in challenge history by bringing up Theo Vaughn and Kendall." Yes, I forgot that Theo Vaughn was on the challenge, but Theo Vaughn like such a funny comedian. Like I just And Christina got Yeah, really going back here.

45:20 Sam saying, "I think was tired too. He did season 39 then did other shows. only had a few week only had a week before starting season 40. So I think he didn't have any more fight in him. Wasn't that show like brutally long? The one that the Mexican one he did was insane. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. So that and he went deep in that one as well. Chris saying exactly CT needs more than some water to take him out. I felt to be honest when I saw him hit the water I felt sorry for the water like you [laughter] know like CT going out. I'm like, you know, but no, see, I was definitely still worried that something bad could have happened and that we wouldn't see CT come back. And like, you know, if you think about the mechanics of this specific trivia, it was quite dangerous because they had them lying back. and a very strange angle where you were tumbling down and you didn't have control over hitting the water.

46:14 But what was strange was that when CT hit the water, his legs went in first. Like, it actually looked like the perfect landing. So, I don't know how he got hurt. At first, when we saw that clip in the trailer, I thought maybe he landed on his neck. Maybe he landed on his back. Strange. But he actually landed on his ass, man. I think he landed on his ass because later when he's in the room with Derek, and again, this was just the perfect scene for me because I felt the room so much. They're all walked into the room, aches and pains. And Derek was like, "Sit down." He goes, "I can't." [laughter] And then CT says, "I have to lie like this because I can't sit like I can't sit up." Like he was like, "I have to lie on one side." I think he like he might have like bruised his ass or lower back or something. Like the fact that he had to lie on his side says to me it was something in that region.

47:08 [laughter] Oh man. Like it was funny seeing all of ER1's guys coming together being like we're no threat. Like there's no way that they should be coming after us. like we can hardly move, you know. seeing the old guys all bond over their aches and pains. Du saying, "I only one that thinks CT is milking it. Look, I'm injured and old. I'm not a threat." Then skates to the final and whoops their ass. Is doing the if you're a Survivor fan potentially the Tyson Apostle move. Tyson Apostle with the arm, you know, when he injured his arm and he tried to play it up like he was injured until the end of the game until he won. that would be a good strategy though and I would love for CT to do that. Dolores says, "I looked away when CT's time to fall." it was like a game show. Let's see what other people saying. Chris doesn't know Jeopardy. No, I don't. Like I've seen I've seen clips of Jeopardy before.

47:59 Is it Is it Steve Harvey that hosts it? No. Alex Tbeck. Rest in peace. Rest in power. Alex Tbeck for years and years. It's one of my favorite shows despite it actually not being on in Australia. So, like you got the daily double. There's a reference that you don't get, but I love it. It's But the American fans of the challenge will definitely know what you're talking about, though. So, yeah, they'll get it. Sam B saying, "We know we know he can win no matter what shape he's in." That's true. Chris, it's time for me to unsubscribe. I can't endorse the lack of Jeopardy knowledge. Like, what's up with this Chris? Do I go down the Jeopardy? I'm carrying the weight for that. Like if you want Jeopardy references, you know, that's what you get from TNT. We cover all bases between us. All bases. All bases. Jeopardy is very American. Hollis is saying, "Just got here.

48:50 I'll rewind later." Hey Hollis, welcome to the live. Mary says, "Does Chris want BB Tucker to join the challenge soon?" A big brother Tucker. Is it Tucker? Tucker. I just want to see because I don't really watch Big Brother anymore. So I have to do a quick search on who Tucker is again. I'm not watching the latest season, so I'm assuming it's the latest season. the last season I watched Mary of Big Brother was I think it was it Tyler's the girl Tyler's season where she won? I think that was the last season I watched. and it's just not been it's not captured me in recent times as much. Sam says CT and Darell and Derek were hilarious in this episode. K saying, "Yeah, we don't have Jeopardy either, but I know what it is from American sitcoms." and Ka saying, "Thank you, Kenna. You are the backbone of this channel." listen Chris, that clip's now going up for saying that.

49:46 You know, I need a little bit of appreciation, otherwise I'll blackmail you with a short of the Vocational Alliance. but overall, I thought it was a fun episode. Fun seeing the trivia. and then we haven't spoken much about I guess the deliberation and about Jordan in the daily throwing potentially this trivia to like I mean he kind of looked like when the production team was talking to him, he had that smile saying that yeah, I kind of threw this one and that I was okay for Laurel to take it because I knew Laurel was never going to gun for me. Did you did you get that vibe as well? Do you think this was a game move in this episode? the fact that he doesn't know Cheyenne's name. you know, when like they said, it's Cory's baby mama and he was at the gender reveal with her.

50:39 And then he also, by the way, he popped a little sh when he was thinking of names, right? Like he was like sh and then he ended up Sylvia. like he was about to say Cheyenne like or he ended up saying was it Chantel or like so he knew it was either a black girl like I don't know what's happen like that's why it was one of the most easiest questions Cory's literally burning like you know into the back of his brain it's look yeah like that is crazy and one of the questions he did at the start as well I was like what why would he get that wrong like but on the other side I don't know why he would like why not win? Does he not want to have the power? Like I don't get I know Laura will protect him in his mind, but also why would you not want to win? Like I don't get that. You know what I mean?

51:31 Yeah. did he not want to make enemies at this moment? Like rather not be the one to choose who goes down there? Like it's very interesting that he felt comfortable enough to not win it himself because Laurel would have probably been safe at the same time. Jordan didn't really have any Well, he had a Nissa then that he would have to try and keep safe and he would have to keep Laurel safe at the same time. is that maybe the reason for it? Like he didn't want to show his cards. I don't know. It's very interesting. I don't think Ana could have held any like bad feelings towards him afterwards because Laurel and Jordan did have like an intimate relationship at one point like and he hasn't had that with Ana. Like that goes deeper. So, I don't know what his motivations were so early on. Maybe he doesn't want to stand out but it's Jordan. He's standing out regardless. It's like he's a threat regardless. People know he's good, right? So, but it was funny. Even if he didn't throw it, even if he didn't throw it at all and he was 100% got it wrong on Cheyenne, which again is crazy.

52:28 He knows her in real life and went to a gender reveal. like even if he doesn't know that, like he would play it up like he would give the option the like the that little look he did to the camera where we're all going h Did he like you know that's what's great about Jordan's re either way. Yeah, either way he's going to give that like that bite to the camera where like I didn't I stuffed it up. I didn't think but I'm going to make you like I know what good TV is. I like that about Jordan. Yeah. Yeah. so Mary Duda is saying, "Pretty much everyone is hyping Tucker to join the challenge. Ask Chantel for context." Okay, Mary, I will ask Chantel because I know Chantel is up to date with the tea when it comes to Big Brother. Dolores is saying Tucker is currently a victer who has been screaming how he wants to go on the challenge, saying that he would kill it.

53:21 And then Hannah says Tucker from BB has the capabilities [laughter] as soon as he comes on. As soon as he comes on, Deon gives him the old big brother sucks. Hannah's Tucker from BB has the capability to do very well on the challenge and he's expressed interest to do to do it. what did you think of Bananas's cop out in this moment where he's like I can't make the decision. Laurel is holding me hostage on this decision of who's going to go and sorry Derek who I've got a friendship with for many decades now and you know I can't you know I can't simply choose because if I try and strongarm Laurel it'll be I'll be doing the Tony move and I'm just going to go down there and throw us both in. What did you think of Bananas in this moment doing that? Surely you weren't surprised because I mean that is kind of Bananas 101. He doesn't have anyone's back.

54:13 Yeah, he's the greatest player ever. He's got the most chips and there's a reason for it, right? Is cuz Yeah, he didn't go down. And he I like that he did say it to Derek. Like he's like, "I'm not going down there for you." Like he [laughter] said it to his face. I'm not doing that. Like I'm not going to do Tony. Like don't even You're a good dude. But like no, I'm not doing the Derek I'm not doing the Derek move where Derek goes in for Dell. Like you're not Dell to me. Yeah. And I think he also knows that, you know, Laurel's difficult to negotiate with or persuade sometimes if Laurel gets something in her mind. even Bananas with his years of experience knows what battles to fight and which ones is like not worth it. and that's kind of what makes him so good is that he kind of sees where to make his moves and sees when to sit back and sees when to let a very, you know, angry woman be an angry woman.

55:07 So, or not make her angry at you. Anyway, yeah, Maruda says, "Banana sitting on his throne of lies, laughing." And then Britany saying, "What gives me pause about Jordan throwing it is why would you go to why would he go to sudden death? He could have just thrown it earlier when he was by himself against era 2, which is a great observation." So, I think someone else here has said that, you know, he easily, I can't remember who said this, but one of the commenters said he easily, if he lost, would have just said it so he didn't look like he lost it as well. you know, Jordan's got a little bit of that ego on him where he probably doesn't want to admit that he actually lost. But, yeah, very good move I think by Bananas. I think, you know, love or hate Bananas, he's a he's a seasoned campaigner. Like you said, he's got more rings than anybody else. He knows how to get to the end of this game and has been doing so consistently for many years. and he also knows that he also knows that like I like that conversation Jordan had where he goes like me and Bananas have you know we've built over years respect like we know that there's time when we will go but there's time where you don't need to cause that early because I've said this so many times why don't you go for Jordan early because he comes back and now you're in trouble because he's not getting eliminated and now you're in trouble.

56:23 Now he's pissed off at you. He'll go out and win a daily intent. Like he'll just go, I'm going to win this one now out of spite. You lose, you go in. He'll then throw off his immunity anyway just to get you. Like this is how Jordan thinks, right? Like he So why can the men I'm going to throw I'm going to throw a hot topic out there. It's going to probably piss people off, but why can the men do this? Why can the men be like, "We're not going after each other. We understand that if we throw each other in, we're coming back them. But when it comes to Laurel and Karia, when Karia is saying the exact same thing to Laurel, like, "Hey, we can change the narrative here. I don't need to be coming back taking shots back at you. Let's try a different game. Why can't they come to the same agreement?" Because, you know, Cara is still there. She's waiting for her opportunity now. Laurel is not this like Laurel is not You can't talk to her.

57:14 Yeah. You can't talk to But look at Carrie and Tori. Yeah. True. They're kind of, you know, that Laurel, they're coexisting. Yeah, they're coexist. Laurel's taken the mantle and, you know, the shine like, you know, there's bigger things to worry about. A bad example, Chris. Yeah, it was a bad example. I realized as soon as I said it, as soon as you put Laurel into any sentence, that's the problem. It's not the fact that the woman couldn't sort it out. It was Laurel is one half of that equation. She was never going to listen. Laurel is Laurel. So, it was a bad take. I'll own it. I'll own it. I just like to explore all these different options, you know, when it comes to the strategy and why people are throwing each other in so early. what did we think live chat and kahuna about Derek's phenomenal presentation and the deliberation? You know, like I feel like I should be hiring him for my sales team, Kahuna. Like the guy's got like graphs.

58:06 He's got he's got like a whole notepad there with like a pitch ready to go. The only thing he needed like I think it was I can't remember who said it was a PowerPoint presentation. If he had the PowerPoint presentation, like surely Derek would have saved himself in this moment. Were you as impressed by his salesman skills that he displayed there in that moment? I mean, it was Laurel he was pitching to, but if it was anyone else, I reckon they would have taken it. They would have they would have bought the Kool-Aid. It was it was pitch perfect. Like, I loved it. It was the perfect blend of like stating your case very clearly and very plainly. Everything you said made sense. They are depleted. Three and four are absolutely the biggest threats. Error one is not at the moment, right? They might be in terms of having a CT, having a Rachel specifically, having a Derell, maybe, but as a group, they are not your biggest threat.

59:01 Like, that makes so much sense. But he didn't do it in a condescending way. He didn't do it in a screaming way. He did it in a self- aacing, joking, funny way while still getting every single point across crystal clear. And then I don't know if you noticed, the greatest little cap for me was when he turned to the other teams. He said like they you should really vote them in as the smartest thing. He turned to them with respect, like very respectfully. Like I thought that was so great. Like he's not pissing anyone off. He's making them laugh the whole way through. But then Jordan had to like with one sentence put like a spanner in the works by saying you have to win to be an asset. Like if you don't win, how are you going to help the other side in the future? And that is so true because not looked like they were going to win anything. And you want to be allied with people who are going to be in power, right? Exactly.

59:51 Exactly. [laughter] So like it took Derek it took Derek I don't know how long 20 minutes we probably saw abbreviated version of his pitch there to get his point across. And then Jordan comes in with one sentence. Good point. This is Derek's argument. That's true. That's a very good point. But with Jordan out of this game, you have a much better chance of being that winner week in and week out. Right? You're worrying about giving putting your trust in someone else to protect you. Protect yourself by getting the strong players out of this game. Then you dominate all of a sudden. There you go. So question for you, how much of that question for you though, how much of that pitch do you believe Derek actually came up on his own and wrote down because we've been listening to his podcast for a while. He's not the most strategic mastermind out there when it comes to it. Like he's a great guy.

1:00:42 He's a fun guy and all that, but how much of it was Derell and CT helping him put that together so that he could go and pitch? Like I feel like this was a team effort. I guess like when they did have the old man conversation in the room, he was the one that had the paper going. He's the one that told Derel to come and have a sit and you know, they probably came up with a collaborative effort, but he was driving it for sure. I don't think Derek was given. Yeah, I think so. As I said, because it was done in a funny way, right? And like you said, as far as strategy goes, I thought it was a good point. It's really the only point that he has. But again, immediately dismantled [laughter] by Jordan in like in an instant like in Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chia says, "I love Derek's presentation. That was very funny." Hannah says, "I think era 2 and era 3 look the strongest right now.

1:01:36 Era 1 is on live support and era 4 doesn't have all the strategy connections." BBG95 says, "I liked how Jordan effortlessly countered Derek's argument by pointing out that Era 1 probably won't win anything." and won't be able to protect Bananas and Laurel in the future. Britany says, "I'm impressed that Derek did try to politic. However, Jordan used his strategy against them by saying that one can't repay what they owe because they won't be in power to actually help." And then Luciano, welcome to the live says, "Derek was great, but unfortunately Laurel would never budge." Sambby says, "But Era 1 can win eliminations and they can put target on folks." And Britany says also Parasio made it easier for Era 2 by specifically asking for Derek since he and Jordan are friends. There was this I think when you've gone like you see it in you see it even in UFC Kuna like you know I'm a big UFC fan because my boy Driers Duplac has been winning the middleweight championship of the world and her man Israel Desagna went up recently and they had like bad blood but all of that was like squashed afterwards.

1:02:43 They're handing each other jackets. They're like, "We'll hang out when we're in Cape Town." Like, I feel like there's a thing where if you have been in the ring, if you've been in the sand with someone and you've gone head-to-head with someone, it even happened with Paulie and Bananas when they had their headto-head in CBS. There is like this mutual respect that is formed after you've had someone in the sand with you and you've gone headto head. Like there's just something there's like a bond that gets formed. Yeah, absolutely. You want to know the perfect example of what you just said? I saw a picture on Insta or something. Theo and Cara Maria together after the thing holidaying, right? And they became very close because apparently Paulie said to Theo after Theo freaking knocked the crap out of him after all that bad blood said, "Look after Ka Maria for me now that I'm gone." And Theo's like, "I got you." Like, that is so dope.

1:03:38 You know what I mean? And that's what I'm talking about. the bad blood, but once you hit it out, it's squashed at that point. Like maybe it rekindles again in future, but right now it's done and settled. Like, you know, that's cool. Yeah. And also obviously the only rift between Kamaria and Theo has been Pauly like because they actually were partners in War of the Worlds and were very good partners at that. So, I feel like they would get along pretty well even now that he's gone out of the equation there. But you're right, it's just there's that bond that gets formed out there. let's talk a little bit about the elimination itself. Kahuna, did you like the elimination? We were kind of low on the previous one. There was a few people in the comments section afterwards who agreed with us saying that maybe they should have given us the right color sequence on the screen so we could see when somebody was wrong and we could follow along.

1:04:29 This one was a lot more simplistic, right? To see what was happening, you had to throw the ball into a gutter, pick up a couple of jacks, and put it onto a wallboard. Obviously, the end of it, I think, wasn't great. And we spoke about the controversies of that and was it a win, wasn't it a win, for instance, but in theory, I feel like this was a good elimination. Like, this is a step in the right direction where it's a head-to-head banger. It's got a couple of different skills that are being tested here. You've got to be agile. You've got to be athletic. You've got to have some hand and eye coordination. It's testing different things. And as a viewer, it's a spectacle. I don't know how they messed it up, to be honest. I feel like this was a layup and they still found a way to mess it up in the editing. You know what's really kind of interestingly ironic about it is that all we talk about the challenge and their innovation and their dailies and eliminations.

1:05:20 This was actually a very survivoresque very survivores thing. and we're saying how good it was cuz I agree I did enjoy the variety of skills that is being showcased in each episode so far and none of them necessar like even last week I said I like that it's was difficult the endurance factor the puzzleness of it just didn't translate to TV this one did translate to it doesn't have the difficulty of the mental side but that would have been hard like endurance wise and every time you drop the ball the punishment of having them to go to the far side again on top of that. I do think there is some strategy here and I think they were pretty dumb about it because Ana dropped the ball. But the smart thing is to just drop the jacks and catch the ball.

1:06:12 In fact, what I would do is just throw all the jacks over towards the end of the ball thing, right? Gutter. You don't take one over and put it on. You just throw them Chuck them. You're not carrying them. I'm chucking them over so that I stand the ball while I've got six that I'm just picking up like this. You know what I mean? Yeah. Is that the hack? Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you're pretty much on to it. And it's like what I what I liked about it was what I liked was the fact that you had to you had to go risk or reward, right? Like how many of these were you going to risk taking at the same time and still try to make the run back? What I do feel like if we could get a slight altercation for the future in Survivor, if you drop the ball or if you knock something over, you got to start over. And I feel like that's the thing that was missing.

1:07:03 Like there should have been a bigger penalty for you not cap capturing the ball on the other end. So that it was like you have to reset the board and you have to start over which would have been a lot more brutal. The whole ball reset and start over. Six hours they'll die. No, but then you would have to be a bit more calculated about how big of a risk you would take, right? You wouldn't want to be right at the end and stuff it up because you would have to start over again on the on the challenge. But I thought it was I thought it was close. They all were each of the drops having it be you have to put them back over past the line. Like as close as they were, that was a pretty big punishment, I think. Yeah. Like that probably was the separator between Ana and Jenny. especially because of the way done it. Yeah. Yeah. and Derek probably would have put any confusion to bed had he not had that big spill as well.

1:07:56 Well, I mean he would have because it knocked out the thing, but as far as that penalty goes, you know, maybe Hasn't been as casual if it was a little bit closer because of that penalty. You know, the penalty was quite impactful on both rounds, I think. Now Hannah's got a really good question here. talking about the editing and that saying is the sketchy editing on purpose the conspiracies could drive up ratings more people wanting to watch to see what the challenge like do you think like if there is a thought that maybe they're manipulating the outcome of the season more people would be interested to tune in for the next episode to see who they're manipulating the episode for or the fact that more people are talking about there being this manipulation on the show will get more people interested to see what is this manipulation that is going on, they would get invested in the show because for me personally, hearing about it, they say that there is no such thing as bad press, I guess.

1:08:50 But I don't know if this is a good thing on a reality TV game show where you want there to be like some level of fairness for whoever's going to win the game so you could feel good about the fact that person's won the show. Like for me personally, I would probably be more turned off from it if I'm a casual and I hear there's this reality TV show where people are potentially they're gaming it to get to the end and it's a fake reality TV show. I think I would be less invested. But more people talking about it, the controversies being out there. Can you see where Hannah's coming from that this could be something that maybe drives people to the show or more eyeballs on the challenge and what the challenge is? I mean, it could be because like I said earlier, Devin did a video where he straight up says Herasio one this is horseshit. Like he says this is horshit and he's screaming, right? And Devon's not a dumb dude. like he wants to come back to this show.

1:09:41 He's a champion. Like he I think he sees this as there's a future here. He's not retiring and he's out there saying this without it getting pulled down without you know and the cast are constantly like not all of them but they don't feel as restricted about talking about the show as other shows do with their cast members. Like we know we've had million-dollar island people and we've had that where we want to interview people and they're like I can't talk about certain things like these guys. Even the challenge Australia even the challenge Australia like when I had I forgot the guy's name now who I brought on for the interview. I had to like go through so many levels of checks on that before I could even put it out edit certain parts of it out before I could even put it on the channel. So it's interesting that the main show they don't really don't care.

1:10:31 They let them just say whatever they want. Well, that's sort of saying like maybe they are okay with That's Thanks, Chris. Connor<unk>'s interview. Yes. I had to like clip out a lot on that interview, Chris. And like the Australian and that wasn't the main that wasn't the Road Rules production team. Yeah, it was local. It was the Channel 10 in Australia that wanted to really carefully curate what was being said. And yeah, it's very interesting. like it's a lot more loosey goosey when it comes to what people can say over in the US about the show, the main show, you know. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it does drive views. Yeah. Well, that adds to that conspiracy theory, the fact that they do let it happen. Yeah, it is a gamble. It's a huge gamble. I don't know. I don't know. But then there are there are a lot of people who love WWE.

1:11:21 There's a lot of people who love wrestling and they know that it's fixed. They know it's fixed. They know it's a story. they know like it's not real and they absolutely live for the story lines and that is also big in America, right? So maybe that's the angle. You know, the Miz went over there, you know, Mark Long is now involved in some sort of wrestling. So maybe that's the angle that they want to go in. I personally I still don't believe that. I feel like they are trying to put an authentic show out, but they get it wrong sometimes. We talk about the fact that they take risks, they try different things, they constantly It's not like Survivor where the rules are pretty set in stone every season. It's always the same format. It's always the same challenges that come up. They're constantly trying something new. So, I think there's always a chance with innovation, there comes risk. When you get it wrong, the line is so thin between success and failure. And when you get it badly wrong or it's contested, it looks really bad, right?

1:12:11 But when they get it right, the highs are extremely high. I think there's also an element of the challenge fandom specifically are very keen and raid for this sort of thing. and do follow that sort of thing and we'll find these sort of things. But they also know that the challenge fandom that will go to that level of detail that are podcasters that are podcast chatters a very small percentage of the overall viewing percentage, right? and they just watches it on his Wednesday night the missing peg in the top corner or the edit this or what does that say of like they're just watching it they're not jumping on Deon's Instagram they're not jumping on Deon's Instagram afterwards it's moving pictures it's flashing lights that lets them get through life without you know hating themselves for a second you know what I mean it's just entertainment it's not much yeah it's just not that much to it but the people that obsess about it find these things and I think it's a much higher level of scrutiny to live up to and you can also ch potentially damage either way, right?

1:13:24 Because I was watching I'm going look, it's obviously confusing. Why doesn't TJ say what the hell happened and like why not come out and go, "Okay, folks, here's what's happened. I know it's confusing, but I said you had to get your stuff to the board first." Derek got them all there. It's on video. We're good. Derek's the winner. Like, why not clarify? They never ever clarify. And I think it's because if you go to the minutia, if you go to the level of detail, your average person that's looking at p moving pictures and doesn't care about that level of details goes, "Shut up." Like, I don't care. Like, just announce the winner and keep going. Like, I'm too, you know, it we don't need to be bogged down in that sort of thing. But for us who love this sort of we can there's enough there to [laughter] get bogged down in.

1:14:16 But I think the bigger audience, it does not matter to and they cater more to that. I actually do thank them for being sloppy sometimes because it gives us podcasters a lot of content to talk about and go back and forth. We get the live crew coming in. They're having their thoughts and opinions. And normally when there's something very controversial that's happened, the live audience absolutely goes off. to the point where we've had a record number of viewers tonight as well or this morning. We had up to 120 people watching us. the majority of those people are on X over 80 people watching us on X right now which is absolutely insane. So if you want to take Yeah, thank you Elon Musk for bringing some viewers to us. But like you know if you want to follow us and take part in the actual live chat conversation I don't think any comments on X we can see it in StreamYard. So, make sure to jump on YouTube.

1:15:09 You will see underneath right down there, it's got the nullified take the YouTube little icon there. go give us a subscribe on the nullified tag channel. We'd really appreciate it. We're about eight or nine subscribers away from 2,500 subscribers, Kuna, which is insane. It's a big milestone for us. So, if any of those ex viewers want to jump over and give us a sub, we'd really appreciate it. Put a like on this video as well when you get here. And for those that are watching this at a later stage, let us know what you agree with, disagree with, what was your highlights, your hot takes for this episode. Was it rigged, we need to know yes or no in the comment section below. and please subscribe to the channel, like I said, because we're so close to that milestone now, and we are planning on doing much more content here on the channel. We've got the Amazing Race Australia that's kicking off. We're talking about having a live show every week for that. And then we may have, by the sounds of it, two live shows for Survivor this upcoming season, which will be Coach Drew and Jake with the classic recap and the American take on Survivor US.

1:16:11 And then myself and Kahuna are going to do it later during the week on a Sunday morning, I believe, in the US. I always get the times right. It'll be like a Monday, it might even be a Monday morning actually, now that I think about it, and Monday evening our time. We'll be doing a recap as well, but it will be a little bit more fun, I'm hoping, than just like the recap format, little bit like how we do it now. We talk about the main points. and we're going to continue to grow the channel. There's plenty of traders content coming up. there's traders interviews for traders New Zealand. So, lots and lots happening here. But, yeah, two for Survivor. We're going to have two shows for Survivor, Chris, this season. And, be sure to subscribe. Check it out. Check all the content out. The more you subscribe, the more you like, the more you comment, the more you know, we know that you like this content. But I think that's all we have here for this week. So, thank you everybody that woke up so early over in the US to jump on and leave some comments.

1:17:04 We really appreciate all of the comments, all of the feedback. you're the reason that I keep doing this really because, you know, every time we get the live audience come up, I always want to see Kuna, how wrong do we have it this week or how right do we have it? Because the live audience keeps us honest. They'll let us know if we get the takes wrong here on the channel, right? and they'd let us know every time. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. We didn't have a who knows. If only if only the production team on the challenge had live chat to keep them in check and call them on their stuff like that, right? They wouldn't put out this they'll fix it like because you know they're not they're not letting anything go. Totally agree. Hey everybody, thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your week. Stay safe over the weekend and we will catch you guys next week. We'll talk about episode 5 of the challenge 40. See you.