The Challenge All Stars 4: FINALS with

0:00 A [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the NFI take we've got the TNT takes for you on episodes 11 and 12 the fin finals of season 4 The Challenge Allstars I'm Kahuna I'm joined by Drew from angel cake vids Drew thank you for joining me how you doing I'm doing pretty well I feel like I've been able to like sleep this one off and then try to like

1:20 I'm happy to be talking about it with you tonight because I think we could Fe like we're g to figure out something on how to deal with whatever that last episode was ah so maybe a little bit of like just to get a top level how you feeling about the finals before we break down into the nitty-gritty and get into all the things just a top level view good bad are you positive negative what are you thinking about the finals and I guess how that sort of impacts the season as a whole that to too much to be a top down view question a top down I was not very thrilled with these finals so I'm not a huge fan of the final and it's it leaves a sour taste in your mouth I think that a final or one part of a season shouldn't absolutely destroy your view of the season but in actuality it's the last thing you're left with so when it's not like up to your standards or what you were expecting it's just like well I got to live with that as the last remaining thought in my brain moving forward it's interesting that you said that like especially us challenge fans can be really loyal but also really fickle when we don't get what we want and

2:40 Some of the more vocal fan bases out there as far as what production does and doesn't do and it's interesting that like that you said that you actually pointed it out a lot of people won't admit that the last thing like our recency bias is so strong you can have a great season not stick the land and we've seen on the challeng sticking the landing is one of the hardest things to do like that final can like carry so much weight that can undo an entire amazing season or save a really bad season and it's not often that we're like open enough with ourselves to go yeah I'm recency buys like whatever happens in that last episode is going to paint how I see the entire season you know so we are of course not joined by today unfortunately he did have some last minute plans this man is like traveling it up he's doing all sorts of things yeah I'm sorry that we don't have Chris that it's just me and Drew today but I'm very stoked to have Drew and we are of course joined in the chat today by lots of people happy to talk about the challenge as always which I love doing as well we have Victoria saying can't wait Chris of course hi drewan Kahuna hey Chris Danica hey everyone

4:00 Is that done from the car today Danica or Brian good evening y'all Julia hi everyone hey Julia Jor is back hi everybody Eric Davis here Willie Lloyd is here what's up Willie of course YouTube Bearcat joining in and there's lovable Nikki lots of people to keep me in my place as well just in case I go C with Chris not Dolores is here yeah we got already lots of people in the chat so I'm really glad everyone's here I hope you had a amazing season for All Star 4 we're going to break it down now starting off we didn't do episode last week again because Chris is travels this man is going everywhere but so we really I apologize I've been a little bit sick lately so we're supposed to be covering episodes 11 and 12 but again we just I just went on for ages about recency biased Dre and people were like episode 11 we that was we already did that we discuss the finals but very quickly obviously we went into the finals with I don't know if I can take you back a week as well just to get your memory

5:20 Banks oh I remember it I remember it vly so we obviously get the we go to the finals with I think considering how overall negative we might be towards the format and some of the things there were definitely some silver lining and positives and I know from watching your videos Drew one of the things that you loved about episode 11 that the first part of the finals was the basically the setup was driving in the RV like yes TJ driving them to the challenge having a lot of fun with it they're playing off on the road trip thing of like hey don't make me be good to your sister don't make me come back there TJ's driving the family around and Leroy's being like Are We There Yet like it brought up PTSD for me personally like for long trips with my brother and like we'd come to blows but this was a fun part a fun way to introduce it's one of the things that's unique about Allstar 4 where they're doing these wacky things that aren't necessarily taking themselves too seriously or they are taking it seriously they're leaning into it but they're doing it like you know it doesn't matter that we're uncool parents that are coming off as cringe or lame or whatever

6:40 This is funny this is marck around this is a bit of light-heartedness that we're enjoying yeah and I actually is some of the comments I haven't answered all the comments but I got like notifications of people like it was a mixed bag of what people thought about it they were like oh I don't I it was too Goofy for me and then some people really enjoyed I personally think that it was fun in the way that this is stuff that we you don't know what Allstar 5 is going to look like I mean there's been rumors and everything but with certain cast of How It's shaping up to be with like more mainstream people on it and people from the flagship you're kind of worried about what all stars could look like in the future so I'm kind of just wanting to soak up what these little moments are like because you never know what it could look like or how the T TJ will act towards seeing some of the newer faces onto all stars so I enjoyed it my problem is that we're gonna get to it but it almost seemed like a weird jaal and hide type of thing where in episode 11 I loved when we got into the RV and got to the final and then right where it picks up at it feels like a completely different tone shift so to me just felt weird

8:01 Going into episode 12 but episode 11 was awesome but I mean there's some weird format stuff but when we just talking strictly of the final I really enjoyed these first two checkpoints and getting to the final I was like this is great yeah I even like the way that like we were told that there would be six stars from the hallway everyone was kind of a little bit dubious would they keep it at six is it going to be a hard six are they just going to give Stars away a and to come up with traditionally we see the eight person final right yeah to be able to get there they're just having that one extra star with the purge while the current star holders get their benefit or their privilege of sitting back at the RV and watching the challenge kind of unfold they get that bonus of watching with champagne and stuff which is great as well but I kind of like that okay six I get it a three like a three or three men three women final is awkward they always have that four one extra star with a purge to get rid of everyone else I kind of like that format to get them to that point rather than just having the six which would have been a really awkward fil final to film you end up with when you

9:21 Have a smaller pool you have the chances of more of them being a Veronica rather than a car so they want to EXP that a little bit I think going into a final say you've at least got that you know the seventh eighth place people that are pretty easy or you can get rid of people whatever you need to do I do like that they kept the stars six and then just added the one extra for the one male one female and the way to do that by purging everyone else out and that's the warning you got you need to have a star there's only one left and there's three of you to get it oh there's you know six of you to get it whatever it was wait was it no it was four how many people competed for that last star it was it well it was six it was three no yeah three technically yeah three it was five they went they went there with six and then Flora said I'm done while looking at the starting line didn't even attempt anything just yeah no the idea of it just the thought of like of running it was enough for Flora but I do appreciate that format to get that one extra in there make it difficult enough but

10:41 When you're looking at a competition with Avery flora and Laurel keeping Laurel away from that finals is always going to be a difficult task isn't it she was kind of a lock yeah to get that last star for the women yeah I if we if it had to be done I'm happy that it was done in a way that people were purged my feeling is if everybody was expecting there to be two stars then your twist isn't very unpredictable and I almost wish that they would have just started out with either saying there's four stars or just keep it to six would be my ideal like let's just have eight stars in the rotation let's hand them all out at that first episode and everybody can about their business the way they wanted to and then see what happens but I do agree that I'm glad that they had to fight for it they had to do the starborn which was didn't look easy at all I mean they had to run it almost looked like a mini final we didn't get that over the course of this season because the final didn't even look like a traditional final so I enjoyed that they actually had to work it was just that Laurel went up against competition that couldn't compete very well in that type of setting and

12:01 Adam and Derek tried to make it look close but Derek came out on top which I'm happy with as well like after Adam's recent you know you mentioned before Jacqueline Hyde he his turn was a weird one as well so I'm glad that yeah he's winning anyway he got Avery out of the out of the show Derek I'm happy for Derek to go forward into this final and we start off you said that you like the first two tasks or parts of the fin which the first one was one of the more fun final Challen like challenges we've seen as far as strapping yourself onto the back of a sports car while shooting stars with a paintball gun was absolutely fun like I think visually one of the best challenges we've seen but I think the problem that I'm going to have similar to you drew is it's not a CH it's not a finals type of challenge is it like everything here I didn't I didn't really have a problem with any of the individual portions it just felt like dailies it just didn't feel like a final event to me you know what I mean like I love the like I was loving it in the moment but it would have been great as a daily like

13:21 So many of the parts of this final were individual you do it once then timing and everyone sitting there waiting there was a lot of sitting around waiting what did you think of that sort of set up there it I definitely agree with you I know what they were trying to do with trying to make it seem like anybody could win if we're just doing random tasks and I can get behind that if there's like a through line if there is something that can keep like keep it cohesive in my opinion you have the first one which we've had star puns throughout the entire season the first checkpoint is Shooting Stars which is the getting on top of the car and shooting actual star targets and then the next one is electric star where they're doing the whole not touching doing operation with a giant metal star and then quickly the star theme just completely just like disassembles and we're getting random tasks that just don't seem to fit any cohesive like structure there's weird decorations the rest of the time and then the final one has to deal with stars so I'm like all this stuff just seems generic it almost feels like they figured it out like two days before and was like all right we got random decorations and a whole bunch of peppers

14:41 We could make something like this right we got weird jet packs that they're going to have to use to drink it's just weird it was like a if you're GNA do that whole consolidation why not make it a through line make it seem like you thought every single step out to make it seem one cohesive way because when it's a race everything every task is on the on the race towards somewhere and it makes it feel a lot more togetherness this just felt really weird and disjointed to me yeah like I said individually each of the sections were kind of cool on their own but it doesn't paint a narrative picture when you put it all together and I definitely agree with you in that like the shooting stars great the electric thing great by itself again like I'm happy to see these people get shocked and tortured like all the time how the approaches the strategy that they go about it with whereas you know Laurel was definitely afraid of that shock very much probably due to the strategy played by Leroy here of screaming out loud so I appreciated that stuff I like that if you're going to do it this way I definitely appreciate them keeping them sep it not understanding times not

16:01 Being able to like we know the first person that does anything on the challenges at the biggest disadvantage and negating that by keeping them blindfolded essentially and not being able to see what they're doing I appreciate all those things I like the effort that they're putting in with that trying to keep it as Fair as possible like you said it's so that anyone can win but again it just doesn't feel like a finals yeah you know what I mean like I like the F like the smartness of keeping them separate let's you know we can control everything and keep it all in one compound and make sure like I get it I understand it's not a finals it's not I like I don't know why I want that stupid run like but it's part of it right is it like it just feels like the final is supposed to be so much more epic so much more grueling so much more torturous on them not just because of the level of difficulty of the challenge itself but because of what you said the race like it is on some sort of linear progression that we see them either separate over time and one person dominates or you know usually they keep us in the dark with the clocks and the timing and we don't know who's going you know where but it was interesting that they

17:22 Did that way and there are certainly positives but maybe it's just an adjustment for us people that like we've been used to a certain way and now that we've seen it like you know like I was saying to Chris last week coming off of season 39 and what I like out of the challenge I certainly prefer the newer version where everything's much more physical the tasks are much bigger it's not the same carnival games that's my personal preference and I was we were talking about how with this season it's definitely gone back to a lot of the more carnival games to keep it a little bit more even platform for the competitors knowing how much difference there is athletically between them and it took me a while to get my head into oh this is a different thing and once I understood and got my own sort of head around I shouldn't have the same expectations I started enjoying them for what it is do you think we can get to that point with the finals setup format like this like is this something that they might be doing going forward I mean I listen to The Challenge official podcast with Ana and Tori and Ana is wanted to say that she hopes

18:42 And she feels like this is the way the challenge is going to be moving towards I keep that I say Keep It On All Stars but you can't I don't think you can go backwards after doing like a 100h hour final and then doing some of these goofy things over on the on the flagship show I just don't I don't think it's going to resonate with a lot of the more casual fans especially when you have like failed D1 athletes and people that are working out a ton over here I mean Jorge says in the in the chat they thought the finals was made like this so anybody could win otherwise why have people like Flora on the cast Flora could never run a normal final I mean she couldn't even run the little thing before the final so I mean that's a problem in and of itself and then but you have people that like I listened to Leroy on the bananas podcast and he said that he was frustrated with the final like he said he barely could watch it watching the portion of after he was purged because it just felt like squid games where it was just like kind of luck based you're kind of just going and you're playing like these carnival games where he actually like worked out a lot he somebody that always trains he's used to the flagship show where you have to run all

20:02 These miles and do these grueling tasks that when you get to a game like Allstars for this particular season they really I'm not they did something completely different compared to the first three All-Star seasons in a way to make it more winnable for the competitors that aren't the most like Savvy or have been on the most recent season but at the same time if you made a final you're supposed to be one of the best you can't you can't go so non-ic difficult to where it hinders the difficulty the entertainment value as well as the creativity of the game I mean whoever came up with spicy foot should already be fired that's just my opinion that's it's not a be it's not a when we're talking about vibe of the finals fo was not one of the challenges we' normally see on something as epic as the challenge you know stage the final stage yeah like it is interesting because everything just seems so like you said there wasn't a through line there's no cohesive link between any of them

21:23 Like there's the tonal shift that you mentioned from episode 11 to episode 12 it's the Good Vibes of a of a RV you know Road Rules thing and then it's like almost like what was the season total Madness like they're in a in a bunker everything's crazy there's like magnet like electric Stars you know electrifying you and you're shooting guns and there's hammering Nails into wood like so much of it was just completely like a fever dream like it was so randomized from one thing to the next like and again individually I didn't have a problem with any of the things that badly like maybe the bowling and the hammer the nails thing like that got really weak especially once Cara figured out do the fire one ace like it's the easiest one and then it was like and it was the most Spectacular One so not only from a television production point of view did they nail it in like straight away in the first five minutes they're like oh great they used up the really good challenges now the only things we've got left for everyone else is to roll a ball down the thing or like hit it hit a nail it was such a weird Choice

22:43 Those ones man yeah that one and then I think the one that Leroy got purged on the balance for survival I thought that one I thought that one was to me that one and the roll the marble blast one was like those two I could definitely have thought I've seen or seen a version of it or just could picture it being on Big Brother which people are frustrated with like big brother players and if the challenge is turning into Big Brother with all the alliance talk but now to have like possibly games that look like they would be on Big Brother I just don't think it was like a good like jumping into I agree the firearm was really good and it was on brand with the with the stars on it as well and yeah like you said they destroyed it in the first like two minutes of the of that portion of bluff KN and then now we're watching Steve getting a hand cramp when nailing in three nails and it's like what well he can't do his hand jobs man he's got he's not a they're delicate hands he's not gonna get a Home Depot [Laughter] sponsorship and what you said before about the marble bash or the bowling thing or whatever it is for whatever reason

24:03 It had Tiki like was it like pey bar kind of like as look Kahuna I don't mind that at all like it suits me if I was on the thing but yeah like why was it a tiki themed Hawaiian bowling like do that is that a thing like is bowl like bowling alleys I know they did the black lights and all that they do Hawaiian theme like I guess I didn't even think of that but I was gonna ask Chris if tikis were like huge in South Africa because I had no idea I was like what are we doing here what is this like you said it was like a fever dream it was like a stump in a blank room with Nails in it and then the next one you see is like a pey room and I'm like how did these like go with each other did we time travel are we in lowkey where they're going to different dimensions and opening doors like what the heck is going on yeah they're traveling interdimensionally like okay so this is the challenge in this universe I guess it's all very different yeah it was weird and now that I'm discussing it out loud instead of just watching it and having it hit my eyeballs and accept what's going on the screen and discuss it just feels weirder and weirder and weirder the combination it's like they had

25:24 A list of all the different types of challenges they've had and these were all the ones on the scrap like they saved all the good ones for 40 they're like oh no what do what do we do for this all star 4 like oh we've got all those other ones that we never use they don't fit together we'll make it work that's why that's why like feels like this was like put together like two days before where they're just like go to go to a party decoration place see how many decorations you get or what they have on like in the back room the most of and we'll just make that work and they just put it all together rocket ship backpack so they can put water to their face and then Mar tiki room it's just so weird it was so weird I was like what does this have to do with anything over this like there was no tikis alluded to the entire season why isn't this stars or Galaxy themed or something it was just weird it was like it was like they rent the majority of the budget went out to this warehouse and then the rest of it was just try to budget as much as you can to get just whatever decorations for every room well we they wasted so much of the budget on tikis that they were just like Cho down a tree get some nails and then hammer it in we need two

26:44 Stumps and like 14 Nails because we can't let other people know that somebody else hammered three Nails into the stump and we had to reset the St it was so weird it's crazy this was so wild to me you know after you strap yourself to a car and shoot Stars Electrify yourself yeah hammer do the balancing drink whatever set yourself on fire and then you can go if you win all that you can go sleep on a cargo net for some reason as well like again as far as the fever dream goes they're like oh you finished now sleep on this net like yeah after blowing each other with water from this fire hose that you had to do soccer with which was wild why are we pairing up it's an individual game it is a solo game why are we pairing people up where half of the pairs are just standing there holding the end of the hose it's yeah I don't get it I just don't get this I was I was watching and thinking oh okay they're probably going to switch at some point because that wouldn't make sense at all to have teams in the final and one person's just holding the back like what does that do they did

28:04 It they did again this was one of those challenge where I thought in my head I was going oh that sounds cool like that sounds actually like a really cool concept like I don't mind this at all but I think in the execution visually having three teams of pairs throwing themselves at each other while wearing full fireman outfit and then using the hoses it just got a bit of a visual like I couldn't track what was going on and like I don't know who's who that it's difficult to tell what's going and then all of a sudden you just see the ball and go oh Cara and Ace got it really did they yeah like oh okay that's good I don't know how that happened I don't know what like how that occurred I couldn't see anything I just see a ball and the edit very slowly moving towards the goal again just completely unrelated Standalone again maybe as a daily it might have been a good thing but yeah like it's not a it's not a final it's not a final and again teaming up S like there's a lot of things that they definitely did I'm not even going to say bad I'm going

29:24 To say weird like it just doesn't make sense a lot of the choices that seem to be made here undoing what I think excuse me are some pretty solid choices like even leading up to it I did like the I think they played the Star Format pretty well this season like we've seen the skulls and stuff the way they did it kind of worked out like pretty decently getting the right number as I said I don't mind the fact that there was a purge with another star to get to the final eight I like that they're keeping them separate so they can't cheat off each other they can't see the time they even kept them like sequestered even though the task took four minutes they kept them for an hour just so they don't understand where they're so they're trying to do all these things and then just contrast that with the complete randomness of what they actually chose to do I'm like oh you did so many good things that I'm liking these little tiny format changes that help keep it a little bit more even and then they do like the complete opposite end of the spectrum where nothing makes sense and doesn't feel like a finals at all yeah and we're missing like we're talking

30:44 About like a lot of the checkpoints and everything but we're missing and not talking about a big elephant in the room and that is people are getting purged throughout the course of the final and then they're handing their are over to somebody else for an advantage later on in the final which I think a lot of people a lot of people had a lot to say and a lot of criticisms about this portion of the final where it a lot of people think that it watered down a lot of the competition when the competition decides that they're just going to dump all their Stars basically on one person to give them an advantage going forward what did you think before because I feel like I've given a lot of my opinion on my own video what did you think about that aspect of the final not a fan not a fan and I think the proof of that is in the outcome in that it was just so powerful like it I don't know if they thought look there's no way all these people are going to stack on one they'll spread it out or something like that would make more sense if they just assume they weren't going to do that but if this was ever a possibility that they might stack up on one person like

32:05 This was the outcome that they didn't want this is the worst possible outcome I think and is exactly what happened it just made it's way too like I said it's too strong for one person to have that kind of Advantage it's almost insurmountable like at that point I felt like Laurel was running alone even though they were close and the edit helped a lot I think in making us think car was right there with her I don't know how close it was at the end because it looked like Laurel was running solo like towards the end there and car had no like it's not like oh she's just up ahead I can catch her like they were running by themselves so I don't know how long it was but it was clearly way too much to overcome for anyone unless you know maybe if they gave it to someone like flora and you've got Laurel and Cara running her down it wouldn't have mattered but as soon as Laurel got that extra Advantage it was done yeah I completely agree and this is where I think people are getting frustrated with like the way of the challenge or the way it's going is that to me it's confusing because I know this is AllStars and but in recent years they've the challenge wants to coin itself as America's fifth Sport

33:25 And then they go and I feel like they use that to kind of like Cloud everybody's mind and be like well we don't want to show all the like hookups or drama because advertisers don't want to see that I mean charman doesn't want like people doing random weird stuff and wild and crazy stuff and they won't want to be our sponsor on here if they're if that's what's going on so we're g to call ourselves and want to project ourselves as America's Fit sport so we can get out of showing all this stuff but then when it comes to the actual comp competition side the actual sporty side they do random stuff and kind of contradict themselves in a way like the Stars handing out the Stars oh I've never seen that in a sporting Arena I didn't know like I've never seen like in the NFL playoffs where like the Kansas City Chiefs beat the Baltimore Ravens the Baltimore Ravens are like you want our best defensive lineman you guys could use them you can use them in the Super Bowl if you want to it's like that's not how it works and then the same thing happens in the main Series in season 39 they people were posting online that a lot of people were using M's instead of W's in that gas tankered truck daily challenge and apparently it was

34:45 Brought up on the day where kyland was like hey they're using the wrong letters and they're using M's for W's and the producers like oh just whatever you know what who cares you know and it's like you can't have your cake and eat it too at this point you either stick by the rules and you call yourself America's fist Sport and you be a stickler for the rules that you have set up or you play yourself as a reality TV you can't have it both ways and I feel like that's where like the ju the position of like and I know this is all stars and I know this going in a different aspect or range or anything and this supposed to be goofy but it's just weird it's just a weird setup to where I'm like I don't know what you're going for I don't know what you're going for I think you're being silly by trying to say like you're trying to come off as a fifth sport just be a reality TV show and own it like just own it's just I don't know I that's where I like it popped in my head today and I needed to say that because to me it's just dumb it's like pick one lane pick a Lane and go with it's it's that identity crisis that's kind of like they could play into either one if they wanted to do the fifth major sport and do it properly they certainly have that there to be able to do but they keep vacillating back and forth between they it's they don't know what they want they don't know what they want to do

36:05 And it's kind of splitting like we end up with a mix of both in between and the finals where we're talking about it feeling like a fever dream that nothing felt like you know like it all worked together and so we get some of the serious sports stuff and then we get like yeah again just the complete Randomness so helping people out with the Stars as well one of the things that I've always liked about the challenge and the main difference between the challenge and Survivor which is you know the big dog Challenger for the for the challenge is Survivor has that implicit in the game in that the way that you treat people and socially you know it can come back to get you because there's vote offs and then there's also the jury at the end right so have to be able to play people the thing that I've always liked about the challenge is that yes social dynamics plays aart in it otherwise you get thrown in more you need your alliances to keep you out of elimination but the whole thing about the challenge is that it doesn't matter because I have the opportunity to go down there despite being a complete and putting off an entire house for a whole season making everyone hate me I can go down and win my way back

37:26 In every single time right that's the whole thing about it is that yes there social aspect of it but it's not the be all and end all the be all and end all is me throwing myself in the sand or being and backing myself up and winning against another individual to get back in the house normally or to win the finals right it's not usually done with that assistance it's like no matter what social things happen no matter how much of an Aral I am no matter how protected I am it comes down to can you win on the day right yeah and that kind of gets taken away when the social aspect is so clearly overpowered it g it gave Laurel a little bit too much so I didn't appreciate it from that side of it that the challenge is not to is yes social but I've always felt like you know it shouldn't matter like a Jordan can be a dick to people and still be one of the best ever right and that goes out the window when if you're the nice person and you make the friends then you get all this Stars just coming towards you like that's if this is part of the part of the recipe if it's built into the recipe then this will dictate the way people play the game as well so that's why it's a really hard thing because a Challen a Twist like that

38:46 Maybe KY would have been playing differently All Season had she known that if I was sucking up and making friends the entire way maybe I would have got stars and a b like you know a bonus at the end you know like that sort of level of change dictates strategy in how you should be approaching the game when it's that powerful and they had a game Cher like that which to me essentially determin the winner at the end with her four stars was that much of a buffer yeah and it was a complete unknown for the entire season it was only done in this la like this last bit with like oh by the way you can now pass your stars onto someone else and that's how powerful it is I would have been like what do you mean like I would have been friends with them the whole way through if I knew that would have happened like you know like how are you supposed to change the fundamental Way the final Works to the point where it will impact the winner and no one knew about it you know like H and you bring up a lot of good things that I want to touch on one of which is I will always say this for The Bitter End is that Chantel is absolutely 100% correct when she said

40:06 And it's been stuck in my brain for years and Seasons where she's like tell everybody the rules right up front one season just go through all the rules giving them step by step on exactly how the season will play all the twists how they will go and let people play their strategies accordingly and I think that to me is something that the challenge has never done and probably will never do but it would be so refreshing for them to be like this is how this works this is how this works put them in a classroom day one day Zero who cares TJ just gives them the complete rundown and let them play accordingly and then if they're thinking there's another twist or something they're dead wrong and then it catches everybody off guard that they are completely dead wrong but I would love them for to do that and be like okay well I got to play accordingly to get to this point which then I would switch up my game to go to this point or this point or that point and I think it would be very interesting to see how the game would progress now there were some podcasts that happened I think Laurel on the bananas podcast Leroy on the bananas podcast and Cara even said it on the official podcast this past week is that there was a lot of people that already knew of

41:26 Cara's resume and how she was like the first ever solo winner hearing that this was an individual season apparently Cara believes that a lot of people had their target on her Laurel also helped by putting that Target on her and Leroy said that car was moping around a lot so he's like she just kind of made herself the outcast and nobody wanted to really talk to her and so I feel like she was coming in playing a losing battle also she's been away from the game for so long that she the people that she knows aren't really her friends or were her friends in the game or whatever so it's just weird it's a funky way of playing it but I feel like Cara was already kind of put in a in a corner and then she just played into that as well she also liked Steve who she said a lot of people would roll their eyes at him whenever he would like come into the room and want to talk to people so that wasn't great either yeah it's so it's just one of those things where it's like solo games are important right I mean we've had the vacation Alliance they've grown exponentially every single season they seem to get more and more friendlier they go on many

42:46 Vacations because a lot of them make it to the final because of each other get cash and prizes and then they spend it on each other so that way they cover their tax their protection tax for the next couple of seasons and everything and I feel like you're just doubling down on that when you have Casey and C win the final and then ask them hey would you like to would you like to share the money because we're not going to make it make you guys share the money but now it's obligated to you and if you don't do it these people can get pissed because you played with them all season and you have the opportunity to give them and the same thing with these Stars hey if Cara could have made it to the final with Rachel she would have and if Rachel were to be eliminated Rachel would have gave Cara the star but in the grand scheme of things it was better to get rid of Rachel because she's a really strong competitor in the game so it's better to get her out but people now hey if I'm friends with them even if it comes to me losing the game I'll just make it to the end so we can share money we can share Stars we can hang out it's like the challenge should not be all friend-based this is how we get giant Globs of alliances and then people make it to the final people get butt hurt because they're not as high on the on the hierarchy as somebody else

44:06 And then so they're left out and then they're always going to be left out and it's just ridiculous that it just seems like friendships dominate now they've always dominated but it's just ridiculous now that the challenge is like playing into this whole friendship thing it used to be like you can have your friendship and alliances but when you get to the final you got to play now it's like hey friends can help you now and you should want more friends you should want to have a social game it's like what are we doing here seriously that's it that the whole thing is like friends don't have to go into an elimination even though that was said in the beginning you need to go in to get your star you don't even need to go in and get your star we'll hand we'll get you a star one way or another as long as you make it with your friends you never double cross anybody you never make any moves you can make the final and then get dumped on with so many gifts and then boom you win by but Laurel says that she won by 30 minutes on the Challenge official like Instagram when somebody was like oh blah Carl would have won and Laurel was like I would have been 30 minutes ahead I was 30 minutes ahead talking to TJ and we had to wait even longer after Cara showed up for Steve but Jorge says that Cara mentioned

45:27 That a producer told her that she was only 10 to 15 minutes behind who knows I if Cara talked to somebody with a watch then I'll trust her take on it but you never know how everything goes but it's just frustrating it's frustrating that now friendships and Rule everything and the challenge is now playing on that yeah I mean friendships and relationships already in a game like the challenge when I've said it's not one of the primary game functions is already completely overpowered like with the vacation allines if you've got the numbers then you can control the game like yeah the vacational L doesn't goes to the finals because they don't go into eliminations and when they do a lot of them are very good and come back but by not going down by controlling the votes that friendship already has the most power within the game really like winning in the sand is kind of the final thw like you need to be able to have that in Your Arsenal in case you get thrown down but the goal is to not get thrown down and you only do that with relationships and friendships right so it's already the most powerful thing you can have in the game more than your own physical capabilities

46:47 Like we've seen not necessarily through friendship but I guess through non-threatening but Flora even getting to the chance to get to a final like we've seen a lot of people get to the Finals over the years without going to eliminations and it's not necessarily because they're an easy layup to drag to the final but because they're friends they're in the right Alliance they've gotten to the right people and they dictate the sway of the vote so it's already so powerful to make it now one the most instrumental determining factor in the winner of the final where those friendship Stars really influenced it that much like it's just so overpowered like to give that much imbalance to one aspect of the game feels like really shortsighted from the producers in there like I said I don't I just think they were like oh there's no way all three like everyone getting evicted will get will Purge will give their starles to one person like I imagine in my head right I'm I was looking at it going I know what they wanted here they were like if they spread those stars out like imagine if Cara had to Ace had two like they all had two and then

48:07 Steve had one or whatever if like if they have given them to someone Laurel I mean Nicole was always going to give it to Laurel right but if Derek had given it to Cara and then someone give it to Ace or whatever like we could have gone into the finals with all of them pretty even yeah like that would have been so much more interesting especially like I feel like narratively this was almost like the worst possible outcome that could have happened as far as the winner goes like as much as Laurel is amazing and one of the goats on the female side it does feel like in this season specifically it's been the Cara show like this has been Cara season Laurel's been the antagonist of Cara screaming in her face putting off the entire audience with the Nicole Saga like just being a dick then we even see leading up to the finals that she didn't even care she wasn't worried she like they were playing it off that she was laughing when it was still that one final Purge which you know perfectly she won but car has been the underdog the entire season car's been the one that we've all sort of been rooting for who has been away from the show for

49:27 Multiple years now we get her comeback it's her she's in every single confessional she's it's kind of being the Cara show most of the season with Laurel held up in the in the Nicole drama and then right at the end through no fault of car's own her biggest competitor the person that's one of the strongest females ever just gets given all these stars and the story that they're building up even in the conf even car is doing it which they film the those confessionals after the fact so they're playing into it I get it but she's like this is it me and Laurel who's the best ever it's going to come down to like if I beat her this is putting the story to bed like they're doing all this stuff just for it to come out that the bad guy won in the end you know I'm short to Laurel it's not the bad guy but like in the edit in the narrative the way they were writing like this season work this was season to win really and man like it worked out horribly for the show in that regard and you said something that I want to touch on I put out a Google form because I'm doing a live on Monday kind of wrapping up the full season on the main Channel at 800 pm on Monday June 24th

50:48 And I wanted to get everybody like in the audience's like Vibe about this season and everything and so I put out a Google form on the community post please fill it out if you haven't on my channel because it's really interesting so many people have already filled it out I loved it I was like am I gonna get six people more than six people filled it out which was awesome so I'm getting like a good old survey of where everybody feels about the eliminations what are the worst eliminations what are the best what are the worst dailies who do you have a difference of opinion leaving the season compared to when you started the season and one of the last ones I had was optional was like do you have any last words and you could leave like a short response or I guess a paragraph or whatever and somebody i' I'm gonna highlight them on Monday but somebody was like it's people for some people who don't have like a dog in the race or something or if you don't have like somebody that you're like dieh hard rooting for the inclination can be I want to root for the underdog and if you're watching the entire season and you're your favorite gets knocked out and by the way that this edit makes it seem is that everybody was dogpiling on Cara she went into multiple eliminations same with Steve and it's like I'm

52:08 Gonna root for the underdog and the Stars kind of completely take out the underdog Vibe because now whoever's top dog is now getting even more of an advantage over whatever they've been able to do this entire season I mean Laurel didn't have to go into an elimination she tried to throw herself down into elimination but was talked out of it she was able to get her star she never had to double cross anybody she only wanted to go after Cara and that's all everybody knew and everything yes she had conversations we never got to see but the person that was like the most like Chris says popular it makes it to the final all their friends get eliminated and then the popular person keeps on getting more advantages and now the underdog has that much more of a hill to climb especially when it's somebody that they view as somebody who can do anything and everything great but on top of that now has a leg up on multiple different loops and it's just I don't know it kind of is frustrating when it's like oh yeah that you're totally right I go into sporting events that I have known nothing about hear who's supposed to absolutely

53:28 Demolish somebody and I'm like all right I have nobody that I know of that's playing this but I'll watch this soccer match or I'll watch this and I want to see the little guy take down the big guy you know and it doesn't normally happen and I feel like the star thing completely wiped out that possibility even Cara said that in The Challenge official podcast because she's like she never gave up hope but it's one of those things where she feels that Laurel always has the advantage or can do everything perfectly but then have such a such so many advantages that it's just like all right I already feel like I have to be on my aame to win against Laurel outright but now she's like St starting on tier three while I'm starting on tier one trying to climb up it's difficult it but she never gave up she said but there's a point where you're like gosh I'm eating this I'm drinking this frog thing two Loops behind and she's completely disregarding these like pipe puzzles that's taking me like two minutes to complete like it's ridiculous yeah it we are used to production impacting results and putting their finger on the scale sometimes

54:49 You know inadvertently like a change to a format change to a thing sometimes it's on purpose or we feel like it might be on purpose but this one I feel like was completely accidental but had one of the biggest impact like it made it completely insurmountable like you said that it was the worst possible person to receive the most possible Advantage like the one person that didn't need any of that in a final is Laurel and I like that what she said that if she's she has to be at the top of her game just to be on the same level as Laurel that they're pretty even evenly matched when both competing at their highest and then just to give her that much of a Runway it's imp she would have had to completely fall on her face to even make this a possibility for Cara like Laurel would have fallen off something or broken a leg or and the fact that she could skip four times the puzzle like yeah five Laps on five yeah and let's be real some of these laps didn't like the first Loop is just eating something so I mean once you're done eating that's one Loop done and so now the ne the next Loop is these two so it's like

56:09 Okay well she can skip all the rest of the four Loops she can skip something of those four Loops now because you don't really need to skip that first one do what did you think of the skipping the puzzle specifically every time I think it was smart I think it was I think it was the hardest one at every single stage like U stacking rocks wasn't that difficult unless you didn't want to touch the little bugs I the added the eating in the puzzle and then the other puzzle the I think that one's a little bit more structured where the pipe puzzle could be anything I mean they're just squares so you could actually put them in any random order and you could be confused there for a little bit the only thing that I would say is that they were 1000% correct to never to not do The Swinging one the last one was is by far the most time was not correct yeah because the most timec consuming because you have to get harnessed in so you have to wait for somebody to like check everything get you harnessed in make sure you're all good to go and then get the thumbs up and then you have to untake everything off and that to me was like yeah you don't want to use the star on that one you have

57:29 You have to use the star on the last one because that one is just completely like and good on production for making it the biggest thing that nobody was gonna do I mean Ace didn't do it I mean Steve did it because he had to because he absolutely screwed up and didn't listen to any of the stuff this is his first final ever in his challenge career but like Laurel didn't do it Cara didn't do it Steve shouldn't have done it and Ace did do it he got to loop I think he got to loop three two and a half and then couldn't do the pipe puzzle again and I don't think he wanted to do the pipe puzzle because he was so far behind he didn't want to have to possibly eat another cockroach or drink that frog thing he's like I'm already done I'm not gonna do it I'm not whatever I don't need $25,000 I'm not gonna win so whatever it's a good position to be in if you don't need 25 Grand but oh who am I to say he probably does but Ace doesn't seem like the guy that cares about the money type of vibe so to me I'm just like he probably doesn't need it he's got a bar somewhere he's just chilling out Ace strikes me as someone who does need it but isn't bothered by it at all like he could probably really need it but he's like I don't care yeah the thing he would have bought with that 25,000 would be like a hot tub so he didn't have

58:49 To go take a bath anymore and he would just jump into the hot tub to take bads so we see after what we've already lamented as a completely unfair Advantage for Laurel he wins it no surprises there considering the Gap that she had on the rest of the field when she was already one of yeah really one of two people that any of us thought had a real shot here like coming into the finals I was still high on Leroy I was still like not high necessarily but I was like Steve looks like he's competent could have a shot here but really for me it was Laurel Cara and Leroy in that distant third spot just because you know I didn't know what the finals was going to throw at us so we get the talk from Cara about this is the Legacy defining rivalry between these two like will she finally have it over Laurel who's beat her in finals I've got the individual win she's only got the one final Championship win and but she's beat me and thing and they were really kind of ramping this up Cara was doing it at least I don't know if production was egging her on to really build that up or she was just doing it herself to only

1:00:09 Lose in the end I don't know if she's that good at like writing like the narratives she's building up the comeback story here or something I don't know but she was definitely building that up so we end up with Laurel winning again was always one of the threats to win from the beginning Cara coming a close second Leroy as I said I thought was going to come in third he went out pretty early in this final very disappointing overall season but what does this do for the legacy of the likes of a Cara and of a Laurel adding another win Cara adding a loss but she really held herself well what does it do for like the longterm how we see these people cuz at least with Cara and Laurel these two women are what many fans would consider the goats of on the women's side so does this move Laurel ahead of Cara does this add to Cara's thing like where does it sort of put the long-term standing of these people it's weird because I feel like people I've seen a lot of lists of like who are the top people and a lot of people already had like Laurel over car Maria at and even just with the one free agents win and

1:01:29 And now Laurel can be like on paper she is a solo winner of a season she has two wins tied with Cara but a lot of people depending on who you like and who you don't like and stands and everything there's always going to be context that's going to be added to certain to certain people and I and to me there is times where context does matter I'm not trying to take this away from Laurel but there's going to be a lot of people that are going to be like yeah but she had four stars yeah but kind of vibe I don't think this does really I don't think this changes too much for anybody in the long scheme of things I think like in the long term people are just going to look at the stats on paper and after a while some things just some context just gets fuzzy over time kind of like with BBG 95 who says I still have Evelyn at number one I mean Evelyn is almost a distant memory and newer fans of the show will come in and be like yeah but that was done in early 2000s when everybody was on a team and you didn't have freak athletes like they do now so now anybody who wins in the more recent gets leap frogs over all these people

1:02:50 I mean we heard this we hear this about Veronica all the time she's tied with Evelyn at the top with three wins yet Veronica is always dismissed because everybody else because Plus's be real she just hasn't been able to keep up with how the game has evolved H as time went on she hasn't been able to really like lock in so it's one of those things where now Veronica is down in the bottom 40s she's in the 40s or she's not even listed in some lists in the top 50 of some people and you have the to the Emily scrums The Laurels and caras way over her and it's because we've seen them compete recently which to me makes sense I guess but I still think respect is due for certain players and I think a win's a win everybody played by the same rules everybody you can't to me you can't take anything away from Laurel or like pass winners of like a Manuel or Tori and Devin or any of the Casey specifically Casey kind of reminds me of this win with Laurel with her win in like season 37 people didn't like the way that she won and discredit her win yet that's not really

1:04:10 On her it we should be more angry at production for instilling formats and weird game mechanics but at the end of the day they everybody on the season played the same game with the same mechanics and it just worked out for them and a lot of these Seasons I talked to kylin way back when season 39 was happening is that a lot of things have to fall right for you to win the game and sometimes with that is social game physical winning dailies winning specific eliminations as well as well as being lucky at certain times and at this point everything fell right into Laurel's lap and she was able to get this win so it's not very satisfying at the end of the day but when it comes down to the numbers when it comes down to her bank account when it comes down to how everybody else played this game Laurels deemed the winner you know yeah it's funny how that satisfying narrative plays such an important part in how we view because like I said Laurel being the bad guy for most of the Season screaming at our hero Cara getting into the most toxic gross cringy relationship we know the outcome

1:05:30 Of again all of that is just sitting with people the fact that she didn't go into the elimination when she kept saying that she was going to do backstab cam in the process and then not even worrying about getting a star was just kind of laughing towards the end and got into the final Purge against the Flora and Avery and then get Stars it's like oh my gosh how did everything that was like narratively if you're writing a script this is the blonde ski like villain on the hills of an 80s movie that one at the end like you know like the preppy snowboarding bad guy who like is picking on our hero just completely won the race the end and it didn't happen where the hero gets Justice at all at least from the story point of view I know in Laurel's head she's the hero of it as well but she's a phenomenal player she's a phenomenal athlete and always a danger on even ground like when you're if you're even close to the Laurel you're in trouble and the fact that you give her any kind of Advantage she's not going to throw it away either she'll take advantage like

1:06:50 You could see sorry in this final if it went to someone like say Veronica had four stars like those four stars could have very well been wasted you know what I mean like but giving them in the very safe hands of aurel they were always going to be used to their full advantage and she wins a season I mentioned before I thought this season was set up perfectly for someone like a Leroy to finally get his win they would bring him back there was very few a much weaker side on the male side You could argue and I felt like it was being set up for a LeRoy win like I think they had a couple scenarios that would have loved to come out of it like the Cara come back the Leroy final win you know there's a thing a few things like that they would have been like okay with and they set these pieces up that it would work out the best possible way unfortunately humans kind of throw a spanner in the works with that a lot but one of those was Leroy himself having a really bad season we saw a Bad season from Leroy overall Bad season from Brad overall yeah like what did you think of the fact that we've got previous past strong performers Leroy has never

1:08:10 Won Brad's a champion just completely like not living up to expectations or the bed on a season that is kind of weaker for them to perform better yeah it's it was very surprising like said Leroy I mean i' I've been following Leroy a lot I mean granted time really plays with your mind because like we said we've been waiting over a year for this season to come out and so the more recent stuff I saw of Leroy on his Instagram was like months before the season actually premiered so that was already a year after this like had already been so like I expected him to come out ready to go firing off all cylinders he's a family guy he has cam like I'm ready for him to be like locked in and focused being like I got to win at no like at all costs like I'm away from my kid I need to win and it just wasn't the case and it I don't know it like I talked about with the form of asking people of who changed positively or negatively from your perception of them in the beginning of the season to now it's like to me the next draft that we do and Leroy is on the cast I'm not gonna be like eyeballing

1:09:31 Him like whether it's allars or like season 40 or whatever he may be on I'm not going to be sitting there like I'm Anna I him like I might try to get him late in the draft because maybe he'll do something and maybe he could like win something and have more friends but at the same time I'm not going to be expecting much from him the same with Brad at this point I don't know what's going on but I guess like Brad was going through a major breakup and stuff so it's interesting that because you talked about how like what was it the that Laurel felt like the villain in some ways and car was set up to be the underdog and everything and it kind of in a weird unsatisfying way that Laura would win if you viewed her as the villain of the season but we had over a year for the challenge to edit this thing to make it seem make it make sense or make it seem satisfying in a way to prop up storylines to where oh well I can see where Laurel is coming from I don't feel this huge sense of like anger when I see Laurel cross the finish line or anything like there's people that are actively coming after people who of cast members who

1:10:51 Say something bad about Cara or is coming out to like congratulate Laurel and everything and it's like that's their prerogative we don't get to see as much stuff is going on but the challenge had so much of these storylines and knew who was going to win before the season premiered so it's like why didn't you set it up Derrick's in the final he Kanas start a laurel yet you never establish that they even had one conversation in the house yet they're the best of buddies and I have to find that out from The Challenge official podcast where it's just told to me why are you why are you doing why are you picking certain things to like completely make like it's just weird it's just weird some of the editing choices and we talked about the format and everything but I think the editing choices of the story and narrative that they wanted to perpetuate and try to get the most like drama out of the whole house and be like whoa look at Cara she's completely thrown to the Wayside and then the person who's doing the majority of it if you are not liking Laurel goes on to get the most advantages and win it just feels weird in a sense why wouldn't you I don't know why wouldn't you push as a challenge editor be like well we got to make it seem at least a gray area of people being like I didn't like abnc that Laurel

1:12:12 Did but the way she played the game and I really feel for her when she's doing a like nobody a lot of people did not feel bad for her going back to like rekindling things with Nicole and I'm sure that was tough for her in some way and to put that on TV and kind of be vulnerable in that way and have it completely blow up in a very public way on social media yet nobody feels that bad for her because you have car Maria in The edit trying to stick up for her and be protective for of for her as we see in the edit of what we see in the edit and Laurel's just yelling in Cara's face to butt out and you have no idea what you're talking about as months later Laurel is threatening Nicole with like putting up a DUI video up so that she gets fired from her it's like what the what are we doing here what are we what is happening like whatever you're trying to do is not working like it's just it's just crazy yeah like it's interesting that you said that they've known the outcome and then they edit around it right they could have they could have protected Laurel better they protect they could have Protected Their Champion better

1:13:34 Like sorry I know last season on 39 we didn't get a lot of positive edits for Emmanuel as the champion but I do think they protected him in the edit they saved him without by keeping all of the Affairs and all of the SLE bag stuff off the screens like as much as he had they were protecting him in that regard they didn't do that for Laurel they made Laurel look like crap and made K look awesome the whole way through and then go oh yeah did we forget like you know well they couldn't save us from seeing Emanuel dab they couldn't take that out of the edit which everybody be like cringe Lord over here yeah like they could have made Emanuel look way worse than we already think he is and the same for Laurel they could have made her look better this season knowing that she was the champion they didn't do a lot to protect her reputation I guess as the hero going into the end there like they just kind of let it ride with whatever she came out with that's what they went with you know yeah and I mean Laurel did say that on banan's podcast where she's like the

1:14:54 Challenge has like a default way of how they want to edit her and portray her and so she doesn't agree with a lot of the editing choices of how they represented what was going on between her and Nicole that there was a lot more happening behind the scenes a lot more in-depth conversations and it wasn't just like it wasn't just like all one-sided and then all of a sudden it kind of wrapped itself into it there was a lot that took place over the course but you have so many people coming out being like this was toxic in the house it was it was getting a lot it was It was kind of annoying at certain points and it was it was tough to live with and it just it just seems like there's so and this is why we can't have seasons that are over a year of not coming out after being filmed it's like so much of the drama just needs to we need to be able to talk about it because now Laurel doesn't want to talk about it because it is touchy it is personal and so she doesn't want to talk about it other people are willing to talk about it or people just don't care because it's been over a year until a baby shower is mentioned and then all hell breaks loose and we're getting four weeks of people talking about a damn baby shower I'm over

1:16:14 It no one case no it's ridiculous I've been coughing so bad I apologize to ew and to everyone in the I've been I didn't it's getting worse it's getting worse I apologize for that but yeah so what was considering that there's been there are flaws in the edit in the final with the challenges they selected and the way it was so in congruent didn't feel like a one cohesive final thing at all it just felt like a bunch of different pieces put together and then if you squint maybe it looks like a final but overall how are we feeling about allar 4 as a season you know like how does it sort of rank ah man it's tough for me because like you said the recency is kind of tough I mean I went and watch the episodes like three four times sometimes during the week whenever they came out so it's like I know this season a lot and I thought like the first half was really good A lot of the cast was really Stellar like they had a lot of like they had a lot of great personalities on this season some unfortunate unlucky stuff that happens

1:17:35 Between like Brad not being able to compete at a high level Tony having to leave Rachel being eliminated by car Maria some of the I think the eliminations were a bit of a pitfall but I really like the daily challenge majority of the time and it's just tough because the drama got really stale in it for me towards the end because it just seemed like it was just recycled and then the final was just It's just tough man It's just tough to like relook over that final and not think like that's how it ended and that's a and to me that is a big part of it but it shouldn't be everything it's I think it's somewhere in the middle for me it's definitely one of those Allstars that I'm not going to rewatch a lot of but yeah I don't know I still think of like Allstars 3 and how like fun that was with how many competitors that were on it and how much like different storylines that were happening the final was really good and it's tough to like look at this one and be like oh that one could over shoot this one or even All Stars One or anything so to me it's like middle it's not like a egregious because it is only 12 episodes so you can like kind of skim through it the but it's just it's tough

1:18:55 It's tough for me to answer I guess at this point I would put it somewhere in the middle is there's like 40 something Seasons I guess it would be like 20 high 20s maybe yeah maybe high 20s yeah look it's one of those things where I watching it week in week out and even now I'm still positive like I'm watching it going yeah I enjoyed this I enjoyed this enjoyed this and then when you stay take a step back only at the end of a season when you can look at the whole thing you go oh like yeah like why this why that like as much as there were good things that I did appreciate about it like I said I like the star/ skull impetus motivator thing like you need to have a star or a skull to go in I appreciate that effort and i' I've I like that they've tried many like not many but they've tried a few iterations now to get that format right and I think this is kind of the closest we've gotten to getting it really good so I do think there is some stuff that have done well but yeah it's tough as an overall product from start to end knowing like you said like losing Tony early losing Rachel early Janelle leaving

1:20:16 The Ayana mess at the start of the Season like we forgot about that like that Wasing crazy as well and then to have a brad disappoint a lero disappointing the Laurel and car kind of going the wrong way as far as narrative goes like there's so much of it and then to have at the end a final as much as there was Laurel and Cara were still there having a LeRoy there Derek I appreciated but when you have a final with Veronica Ace you know kind of getting there and just filling in the numbers it's like well they're not really the show didn't do its job over 10 episodes to filter out the best to get to the final you know yeah but we'll see I mean from what we see of Allstar 5 we'll see how this all plays out I'm just looking forward to season 40 season 40 I think they're gonna go like ham on I'm expecting big and wild stuff I mean I know there's like 40 people on the cast so I'm just like waiting for finally there to be announcements which I'm hoping there it's going to be like sometime next month like in a couple of weeks we'll get an announcement of season 40 and get this like

1:21:36 Big ramp up of 40 so yeah just on allsize 4 leading into 40 now that we've s sort of gotten time and a couple of seasons and seeing the picture now that we're here at the end of All Star 4 why was it held up so long it was before USA 2 and before 39 yeah like can you see a reason now based on what we got out of this season why it was kind of held back for so long my theory is that they were worried about season 39 and how that was going to be received and I think that they were like a lot of newbies a lot of new faces they're worried about ratings going down which they did they hit rock bottom and then they brought in the Champs and that got everybody excited and so and then so I think they were like oh people are already excited they know they got Laurel they know we got Rachel and Cara and Cara's big return that it's they didn't want it to be like I think they wanted to buffer in between 39 and 40 yeah because I don't think you want two

1:22:56 Regular seasons back to back that's a lot of Challenge in a very short amount of time but also they feel like they can have an upswing heading into 40 with who's on season 39 as well as there's a lot of people rumored a lot of people on season 40 from Allstar 4 so if you dump Allstar 4 randomly and then have 20s something weeks of season 39 and that kind of leaves everybody kind of like eh 39 wasn't that great it's kind of like oh remember when we had Rachel all the way back in All Star 4 and she left like in episode four or yeah four well guess what she's gonna be on season 40 and it's like oh great that season that happened a year ago like what are you talking about kind of vibe so I think they wanted an upswing they wanted to see if they can get subscriptions up on Paramount plus before season 40 as well as there's a lot of people like I think Brandon Leroy is also going to be on season 40 as well as well as Cara is supposed to be on there as well so I think Laurel I think is also so there's a lot of people from season 40 and I think they're just like hey we can this could be an easy smooth transition from how many people are on Allstars 4 into season 40 as well as maybe there's G to be an upswing into 40 and get people even that much more excited and these storylines can

1:24:16 Maybe lead into it but it's over a year long a year now and all those story lines are not going to match up from where they filmed season 4 so that's my opinion of why they held off so long yeah I think that would really worried about 39 and I felt it in this one as well especially towards the end like you could tell now that you've seen 39 and All Stars 4 backto back the budget cutting like I really hope they are saving it and they're going hardcore for 40 because oh yeah having the one winner 250 Grand and then the other two splitting 50 like the only reason why they couldn't have two winners is because they didn't want to pay two people 250 Grand and paying two people 125 Grand nowadays feels a little bit weak so they're like we'll just do one winner one prize you know so I do feel like they were they were cutting Corners a lot edit wi financially budget wise and I'm hoping it's because they're saving to I know that's what it was on 39 like as far as the appearance fees all that goes like anytime you're a veteran you get Scaled up based on the number of Seasons you've appeared on yeah and

1:25:37 Coming from 39 to 40 would have been a tough sell I think like so having this in between was you know with the all stars there with the Laurels and the caras it makes a lot of sense so I can see why they did it but it's just it's so long they kept it in the for so long like the world changed life changed and like we're going on now having to talk like I just imagine like the torture for someone like Laurel who won more than 12 months ago had a girlfriend like she was falling in love with again like her ex at the moment and then won 250 Grand and then over the next 12 months that all goes to she's like fighting with like threatening her doing all this stuff and then they're like oh yeah 12 months later now you have to watch it and have the entire public react to something that you've just spent the last 12 months like getting over like that's that makes it feel like almost worse and everybody has an opinion on it and everybody wants to like drag you down for it and call you like why are you acting dumb for going back to her and everything it's tough like just to have empathy a little bit it's like it took a while for me to get over like my college

1:26:57 Like girlfriend my first college girlfriend and for me to like not only go through that but then feel like oh I'm getting into a good place and then see it like everywhere and people like clipping parts of my life and putting it up on like social media and then tagging me in it and then dming me and being like name calling and everything I've been like I am living a nightmare I cannot get away from this like this is crazy but to put it in perspective on this season Leroy and cam talk about having a second child and by the time that they left this season and started they filmed the season they left the season by the time the season aired they had already conceived and gave birth to their second child so that's how long there has been in between so yeah it's crazy the timing but yeah I feel like especially with Laurel it's got to feel like just a nightmare and I mean she does she's somebody that does not step away from social media so when she got she got on onto social media like she just wants to have conversations and quips for everybody and it's like you don't have to like you have $250,000 in your bank

1:28:17 Account you could just go you can just not do that yeah put the Fone down a little step away yeah stuff one thing that I was really surprised with and loved coming into this final anyway is that of the final eight I had four left on my team Drew yes you did I had four of the final eight and I think I had three of the final four on my team so I was like what is happening like I can't believe I still had so many people going into the final do you have score updates or anything like that yes I do and I just want to throw this out there I want to throw this out there when I when I when I there's been points where I don't win I have not won in a little bit since World Championships I believe oh no season 38 whichever one came first but I have not won 39 and I did not win this time but I made history as the first person to lose everybody heading into the final I did not have a single person on my team heading into the final so I went in there I got historically last place not only that but my last three players on

1:29:37 My team were all purged in episode 11 ah as were you drew as were you so yeah I had I had Ryan flora and Avery as my last three players and they all were purged right before the final so that was great but so I am in I'm fourth place I ended fourth place with 286 points so not great in third place was team Chantel even though she had Laurel and Laurel yeah and Chad even though Laurel had was the highest scorer with 195 total points and that's technically half of her team's points she did have Derek but he lost very early on in stage two or episode 12 she got 380 points almost 100 points ahead of me in third place and it came down between you and Chris now I will say that it was close only 14 points separated both you and Chris this is like this is bragging rights now this is you between me and Chris I'm so scared I want to have it

1:30:57 Over him on in the final you lost Veronica and Ace and Chris lost Nicole and Leroy and it came out that last little push got you the win Kahuna you won 466 points to 452 points and Chris made history along with me to finish the game with nobody left on his team because Nicole and Leroy were the last two people in the final for him and he was he got over he got nobody left so me and Chris left the season with nobody left but he got second place I got fourth place and you got first place by only 14 points with car and Steve left your last male pick was Steve who was the second to last pick at I believe yeah that was awesome yeah second to last pick Steve got you 101 points top four in points which was incredible or top five in points so yeah congratulations I'm stoked I'm so happy right now I like I don't feel like

1:32:18 Like proud of it necessarily like I am I am proud but like when my the people got me the win weren't exactly my decision choices you know what I mean it's like Steve Veronica and Ace all Ace I got tricked into to pick him and he got me all those points and he was right there till the end so I'm really happy with that I just love having that over Chris as well by the way it really backfired for him to not it really backfired for him to tell you to pick Ace when he should have picked Ace that's so yeah so the fact that yeah my last three picks were really what carried me is like I can't even claim the credit but I'll take the win you know yeah oh no you definitely deserve the credit you definitely deserve this win I mean you took some risk and you got it so congratulations I mean Veronica Ace was your second highest third highest scorer with 93 points and Veronica was your second highest with 76 so I mean you had two players that you completely unlucky who would have saw Tony and Rachel leave earlyish but you were able to Surge with Ace Veronica Steve and Cara I mean unlikely

1:33:39 Quad four right yeah four unluckily four to get you there but hey it got it done yeah this is awesome I'm so happy someone said I told you Ace was a sleeper like literally yeah he was that's funny but yeah Drew thank you so much man like for coming on to today's episode but also for updating us throughout this the season with the draft but Al the episodes that you've come and filled in it's always great having you on and bringing the break the bakery in like they're always with us anyway it's a shared audience but obviously we love having you on so thank you so much thank you for having me I mean this was awesome you're saving me major anxiety because my hockey team can't somehow win one more game and I don't have to I didn't have to experience them losing for a period in a half I got to sit here have a great time talking to you hang out with everybody in the chat talking about the challenge and that bit of disappointment which brought me great joy tonight so I appreciate it that's good stuff say you are watching in the chat thank you so much I know we didn't like interact too much with the chat today but

1:34:59 I mean there was a lot going on with the discussion so much to discuss about the challenge always and we're always happy to keep doing it now we've got off seon for The Challenge I know that we're going to be doing our season 40 preview draft coming up at some point I know this week Chris was really disappointed to miss out on this episode to recap so this week he's going to during the week do a video either himself or I might join him just to sum up his thoughts on the season as well he can't go without making his voice known so Chris is going to be back this week doing something we've got the 46 days 46 seasons and 46 days challenge going on with Drew coach Drew at the moment on the channel as well but we' we'll have lots of stuff coming up on the channel but that does bring this episode and this season of The Challenge All Star 4 to a close we've got Laurel as a new champ Chon we've got me as the new draft Champion which I'm so stoked about I'm going to I'm going to I feel like I should get some sort of poster or something in the background to championship belt or something that I can put on the wall for next time but yeah I'm really happy with that but yeah everyone in the chat thank you so much I hope you had an awesome episode I hope it's been a great season we're going to be back discussing all things the challenge going forward

1:36:19 We've got a lot to discuss for the Survivor world for you know reality TV in general Drew what have you got to promote this week I just have a live going on Monday and that's pretty much all I have so far planned out I know I have a hot takes video that I'm trying to get out in July on the channel I am G to be doing some live streams on patreon.com Angel vids I just talked about a weird old MTV show called W to come in which is wild which was really fun to tape that's now up live for the $5 patrons but I'm going to be doing live streams every single week we're going to be starting to watch a real world season in the offseason on patreon as well it's between real world Philadelphia or the real world explosion it looks like which very excited about and yeah we're gonna be doing some game nights as well and maybe some movie nights and just waiting for any and all news the Challenge and Challenge season 40 and just staying prepared and getting content out hopefully weekly content on the YouTube channel definitely going to have some stuff weekly going on patreon so yeah it'll be interesting

1:37:39 Of an offseason but we'll make it work nice stuff it does feel weird to assume that anyone watching this right now wouldn't already know who you are and follow your channel but if you're in the in the chat if you're watching and you don't know Drew please follow Drew angel cake vids his patreon is the best challenge Community going online at the moment so make sure you follow Drew and stay tuned for lots of cool challenge info he's the definitive source of all things to challenge online on YouTube and a source of my information as well so yeah thank you drew thank you everyone in the chat it's been a hell of a season I've loved it but we'll do it all again soon stay tuned for the TNT takes coming at you very shortly but until then thank you