Traitors Australia: Season 2 Final Review

0:56 Welcome back to the Nullified Take channel here on YouTube where we've got the TNT takes for you on Traitors Australia season two and what a treacherous season this was. We had a bombshell of a finale to talk about and the chat's already going off talking about everything that happened and we will acknowledge that in a second but I think the juicy tidbits of how this whole thing ended up well we'll leave that for later in the podcast. We'll get back to it. We'll let it cook throughout this live and then I've got some spicy takes on what I think of the season as a whole but I'm your host Chris and with me as always is my ride or die Kahuna. Kahuna, how you doing buddy? How have you been since the last time we spoke? We did the challenge podcast not that long ago. I may have lost Kahuna. So I'm going to come over to you Tom. Tom is my other co-host here on the podcast.

1:47 Tom, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing great. The new Olivia Rodrigo album came out this week and you know great finale to Traitors so been an week, you know, very happy about it. Yeah, well, this was your first season of Traitors, man. Like, what a season to start on? Like, I mean, you've never seen the in-game before. I'm sure it would have been pretty shocking to you how things ended up in this season. after the season as a whole, without going too much into the finale, what's your thoughts on Traitors? Is this a season or a show that you can get you can see yourself getting more invested in it as it continues on? Yeah, I'm definitely keen. I want to go back and watch the American seasons and, you know, season 1 of Australia and all that. But yeah, no, it was a It was a crazy season overall. Like, I It almost feels like a parody of what reality TV actually is, you know, just, you know, the whole ending.

2:40 But we'll get into that later, you know, and you know We've got a little cook, Tom. We've got a little cook, you know, like get into it towards the end of this. It felt like, I don't know if anyone in the chat has watched this show, but it felt like a Total Drama Island season, like which is, cartoon which is a parody of reality TV. It felt very much on brand for that show. I've not watched it, but you've got me intrigued now. Let's say hello to a few people here in the live. We've got before Danica saying I'm probably going to be late this morning. I need to take my husband to work and then daughter to work. I'll try to listen in the car. And I've noticed that Danica has popped back into the live later on to show us that she is here. Welcome, Danica, to the live as always. also Michael saying that Sarah was the best player this season. Change my mind. Well, we will talk about Sarah's performance a little bit later on. Thanks for your input there, Mucky.

3:31 Andre Lee with the 10 New Zealand dollars straight off the bat saying, "The good news is that we'll be getting a third Traitors AU due to the money they saved this season. How much chocolate milk can Mucky buy with that remaining prize money?" We should not be indulging this. Please, Andre, let's get off the chucky milk stuff with Mucky. But thank you for the 10 dollars. Really appreciate it. Obviously, we'll go straight back into the podcast as we continue to improve the show. Andrew also says officially straight into the top 10, even possible top five best endings to reality competition show. We'll We will talk about that in a bit. Andrew also saying due to the Traders Australia, I do not really want to hear the word evidence much more this year. Yeah, they did not have much evidence at all. Who else do we have here as well? We've got RD saying jaw dropped with Looks like a kind of like a scared-looking emoji there. We do have Kahuna back in the live now.

4:23 Kahuna, officially Impeccable timing by me, as always. As soon as you start the intro, as soon as you live, that's when I get cut out. but yeah, I'm really happy to be and I'm glad I could come back on, so great season of the Is it a great season of the Traders or a great finale of the Traders? I'm not sure, but we're going to discuss that overall, I'm sure. Yeah, definitely we'll discuss that. I am very interested to hear your takes on it. Before we get too deep into this finale, please consider subscribing to the channel. We are five subs away from 2,000 subscribers. So, if you're listening to this and you're one of those few people that have been listening this whole season, you're like on the fence, do you want to commit to subscribing to this channel and, you know, support what these young guys I should say those two young guys and this old guy is trying to do here on the Nullified Take channel, please consider subscribing today.

5:14 I hope we earned that subscription. It's been a lot of fun talking about this season and there's plenty more good content coming. Traders Canada, mucky the mucky takeover continues. He'll be talking about Traders Canada with Hamish here on the channel and then also Kahuna and Tom will be doing The Amazing Race Australia. So, a lot more content coming up as well as Survivor 45, The Challenge, you know, all the normal The Wheel of Time, and obviously The Amazing Race over in the US as well. So much content coming up towards the end of this year. So, please consider subscribing to here on But, let's get straight into it. Kahuna, we started this episode off with two faithfuls and three traders. And man oh man, Kahuna, could they I feel like the traders could not have selected two better faithfuls to go into this finale episode with because Liam finally woke up, but pretty much he woke up at the point where Sam already revealed himself to him at this stage of the game and there was nothing he can do about it.

6:12 Yeah, way too I love that Camille's talking about sort of the meta game strategy. Can faithfuls win the game at that point? Like, is it possible? And she's like, "Yeah, it's possible." But, not with these faithfuls. Not with And it was so spot-on. Like, that like the traders definitely engineered the best possible scenario as far as having which faithfuls to If you could pick and choose, they were the two that you would choose from the get-go to make sure that you're sitting next to them. If you want to go to the end with a goat, they picked the goatest of goats of all time. Yeah, I feel so harsh because you could just tell here, Tom, at the beginning of this episode that Liam was furious with himself. Like, the gig's up. He realized that his good mate Sam has sort of guided him through this game, constantly gaslighting him and telling him who to vote for just for the person that he's voting to for at the end of the day being a faithful and also one that has been targeting Sam.

7:12 So, he realizes that at this point he's been doing all the dirty work for Sam. you know, can you put yourself in Liam's shoes, Tom? What would it feel like to get this deep into the game where you think like you've got this guy, you've got this brochacho who's got your back, and then at the end of the day you realize this guy's been playing me the whole time? no, I can't put myself in Liam's shoes cuz I'd never be that stupid. But, no, I feel I feel for the guy, you know, like it's going to be going to be tough watching it, but I'm sure all his mates just have a laugh, you know, ripping to him about being maybe the worst player. Actually, I'm curious. I'd like to know everyone's opinions. Who is the worst player between Sarah and Liam? That is Sarah. Oh, yeah, you reckon? Yeah, 100%. That's why they left it That's also why they left it up until Like, I mean, right until the end, she had no clue.

8:03 At least At least Liam woke up at the end. Like, it was too late to do anything, but even up until the end, she had no clue. I mean, the fact that he Liam and Sarah sat down there, and they were like, "We've got to vote. We've got to vote for Sam this round." because here's all the evidence as to why it is Sam. Every single round, people start waking up to Sam, they're gone. Annabelle risked her game for it for the Sam vote. Luke risked his game for the Sam vote. You know, every single person you could go down sort of had that aha moment, and Liam was the last person to have the aha moment, but the penny never dropped for Sarah. Right until the end, she still got convinced to go the other way, and I feel like there was leeway here, Kouna, for Blake to make a move, and I think he would have made the move if Sarah was just aware enough of the situation as it stood there, and if she could stick to her vote, but he couldn't rely on her.

8:56 Yeah, I mean, the fact that she still voted for Liam is evidence enough. Like, when you're down that far to not even like think, okay, I get maybe you don't pick that there's three traders cuz how could you? Maybe you think there might be two. Maybe you think there's one left. But, you've got one vote, and out of all the people standing in front of you or sitting in front of you in the in the round table, you go for Liam instead of Sam. Instead like clueless. He's clueless. He's been clueless the whole game. Like, I don't understand how she could look at Liam and think he was acting that up the whole time. Like, he clearly looks like he Like, you know, for Sarah, like, she's a psychiatrist or something. You would have thought she would have been able to psychoanalyze him by now. And she and as a psychiatrist, you would have thought that she would be able to psychoanalyze Sam as someone that is gaslighting everyone and being fooled cuz Kouna has been calling it the whole time.

9:52 Kouna has been calling it out for weeks here on the podcast, Tom. So, I don't know. Who do you think's the worst player between the two of them? I really personally feel like it's Sarah. And I've got a feeling Kouna feels like it's Sarah as well, but who do you think? Do you think Liam is worse? all I know is Mucky genuinely thinks Sarah is the best player of the season or at least the best faithful because she made it to the end. but Steve is always so unimpeachable. He always picks them. So, Sarah is the Steve, the sneaky Steve No, don't do that to Steve. He doesn't deserve that. No, I'm just worried for Sarah's you know, work after that season. Then anyone who's watched that season won't be hiring her. No, I wouldn't. so, you're not endorsing Sarah's work at all on this podcast, but Andrew Lee here says was Sarah playing greedy with a question mark.

10:43 Only explanation I have got for a psychiatrist playing so badly with three exclamation marks. I just think she was clueless. I really think she was clueless even up until the end when the whole thing was over and she said, "Well, I learned something about myself on here. Not that I'm a terrible judge of character and that my reads are horrible, that I'm a badass and I'm so much more resilient than what I thought." That's what she learned from this, Kouna. Well, she had the sciatica that kept getting her made her crawl up a hill and do all that. So, yeah, I guess she did overcome some things, but my goodness, in a game that is more cerebral, badass is not what I would, you know, apply to her at all. Like she was putty. She was completely manipulated the entire way. And the We talked early in the season about how Camille being a federal agent, Keith being a detective, it didn't look great for them.

11:41 As far as psychotherapy like her medical license, I'm like, what is going on? She can't pick anything from people that you talk with and interact with non-stop, and she didn't pick up any of it. Listen, none of these I don't know what it is, but none of the Australian reality TV shows, like the ones where you've had cops playing Survivor, they've been horrible at reading people. You know, like cops this season have not been on it when it comes to reading people. Psychiatrists clearly aren't Like you said, doesn't have that cerebral sense about themselves to be able to psychoanalyze different people or I don't know, like just the emotional awareness of seeing when people are playing them. And again, we're sitting on the sidelines. Easy for us to say. Easy for us to say, but we've seen people in Survivor US play this game, like Debbie, who was a psychiatrist as well, and she absolutely freaking dominated her season.

12:34 So, it's like, why are the Americans better at reality TV, Tom, than what the Australians are? Like it seems like the professions here don't translate over to the Australian TV shows. I just don't think Australians are as built for reality TV as Americans, you know? It's been in their blood and their DNA. Yeah, like Americans have been doing it since 2000, more or less. I don't know when reality TV really original reality TV content really hit its stride here in Australia. But I just remember one thing. in Sarah, you know, like their little highlight their little package of why they reckon they're going to win, Sarah was like I'm the cat with nine lives, like they just can't kill me. I'm like, no one's trying to run you over. No one is trying to kill this cat. Like that cat is very alive, you know? Like cuz I just thought it was really funny around.

13:25 It's like it's like the one game that you can play where the aim is to be a target almost in the game because if you're not being targeted and you're a faithful, you know that you're being played by someone. You know that they're keeping you there because your reads are completely off. So, it's not a compliment to be a faithful to get to the end game because you're not doing anything. You're like you weren't killed Is it a compliment? getting like It's a compliment to be taken out early like Luke and Annabelle was this season cuz they were on to something, you know? And any of the other players like even Roha, the people that were taken out early, they were the ones that actually started waking up to what was going on. it was funny. We spoke about it last week where Gloria stood up after she was eliminated and said, "Well, you guys are all still dum-dums." So, I'm like, "You were a dum-dum 2 seconds ago. You were part of these faithfuls that got dragged deep into the game and that didn't get voted out." And the traders this season, I mean, let's not take anything away from the likes of a Sam and a Blake.

14:20 The fact that the two of them could make it work somehow in this dysfunctional almost like brotherly relationship that they had which was so dysfunctional and still make it to the end game and still have people confused as to the fact that both of them are traders. Like Tom, make it make sense to me. Like I mean, these two were gunning for each other at one stage in the game. Did it help their game maybe that they were targeting so targeting each other so hard? Do you think that threw people off? I think like they were just They're so gung-ho on each other for a moment and then they both like maybe simultaneously woke up and smelled the roses and went, "Wait, Luke's gone. Annabelle's gone. We're here for a bunch of eight-year-olds. Let's just go to the end together and just win this. Easy money. Like honestly, I can't believe it really felt like just two not even like geniuses or anything.

15:16 Like they played really great games, but like they weren't like I'm not that I'm a traders expert or anything, but they're not like god-tier games by any standard, but everyone else was just hopeless. So hopeless. Yeah, so off. I would take something away from Blake in that he went to the end with Sam. Like that is the biggest mistake in the game, more than Sarah, more than Liam, is that he dealt with Sam's the entire season. He knows what he's dealing with. He knows that they did go at each other, and he knows that he is the type that will 1,000% steal, right? And he still went to the end with him when he had Camille. I don't forget I don't forget I think I think Sam just ran the game. Honestly think that Sam bulldozed through the game. Every time Blake tried to make a move against Sam, like Sam would get the numbers galvanized and get it on her side to the point where people were turning the other way.

16:13 So Blake never had a cuz Blake couldn't vote him out on his own. Well, at the end game, I think they I think was his the opportunity. He tried earlier, he missed. Because there was five, right? He knows where He knows where Liam was 100% going to vote. Yeah. If he had one chat with Camille, she would have definitely done it as well, and then it's Blake. Sarah, he knows he can't get rid of her. yeah, I think Camille was the person, but maybe the fact that Sam was gaslighting him about how close him and Camille was. It sounded like and even basically seen the interview that Camille did this week on one of the news articles I read a little bit of that and we'll talk about that later on as well. Camille and Sam were very close within the game. They were very close friends in the game. So I feel like Blake didn't see the option to use Camille because she was brought And again, this is where you could say, "Well, why did Blake cave to have Camille come into the Traders?" Because he did.

17:05 He didn't initially want to recruit. So what would have been his best move at that stage probably would have been to stand his ground and say, "No, Camille is your friend. I don't want to bring her in." But he did cave. So I feel like Sam just I will give Sam credit for the stranglehold he had in this game and when it comes to the numbers. He did play a phenomenal game and he kind of had Blake in the backseat kicking and screaming all the way to the final. But I don't feel like Blake had any control in this game at any stage. Like I think Sam outplayed him every step of the way. Now, well I've got different opinions about Blake towards the end of the game and we'll talk about that, but I will give him credit where it's due in regards to his gameplay and the fact that he was kind of able to I don't know, like kind of bully his way through the game. It was pretty admirable. I know there's a lot of people who want to see him go play Survivor at this stage. let's have a quick look at a few more of the comments coming in here.

17:57 We've got Danny saying Total Drama Island. You awesome younger to watch it. Young youngster to watch it. So that was that was probably directed at you there Tom when you mentioned the Drama Island reference. I did like the story of a frog who think he's in a jacuzzi when you realize he's being cooked, it's too late. And really saying, "Was Sarah playing greedy? We've already seen that one." Chadude, welcome to the live stream as well. Always good to have you here. Chadude says they're both Yeah. They didn't play good, Chadude. They didn't play good. Andre Lee saying, "How many traders did Sarah think was left? One, two?" Sarah thought Camille was the only other faithful. I think she thought Camille was the only other faithful and that there were only two traders at that stage in the game. Audi saying, "Sarah's all someone who is prone to being misled." Yep. Yep. And Chadude says, "Well, I wouldn't say that looking at the recent US seasons of Survivor aren't quite they are quite bad." That was that reference to Americans being better at reality TV than us.

18:56 Yeah, but I'm not talking about Americans. I'm talking about those that are in like services like police or psychologists or psychiatrists. I guess Tory was the only one that I can think of recently, Chadude, that wasn't too great. But we haven't had really many police people playing, right? We had a the and who was the guy who played last season that was kind of like a Tony kind of player? I think it was Danny potential. Danny, we had Danny that was a fireman. But I mean fireman is already forgettable. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. Audi say this is my third season after UK US. This is the only show I think where you don't know how it'll end. 100%. It's very unpredictable because of the fact that it's so easy to lose control in this game. And I feel like it's a difficult game to play. I know Mucky called me out earlier and said the only reason that I don't want to play in this game is because I'd probably be like a Liam if I was to play this reality show.

19:46 So He said taking shots any reality show. Any reality show. Yeah. It's a bit of sour grapes there. Well, okay, let me give you the backstory. Mucky covered Mucky covered Traders New Zealand this season, right? He was the main host for Traders New Zealand. And South Pacific Pictures followed me on Instagram and Twitter. So I think that Mucky's a little bit sour because they're the ones who produced Traders New Zealand. And that's a bit of a stab. He's like, Chris, if you get on, I will come for you. So I feel like it's a bit of sourness there from Mucky because they followed me on socials. all right, so let's talk a little bit about the daily challenge here. Kahuna, what did you think of this daily challenge? The big heist scene with Roger coming in all leathered up with the sunglasses and sort of sitting with the getaway van. Did you Did you enjoy this?

20:38 Roger may be my favorite competition reality host of any like More so than I mean maybe not. But I mean Bo knows, right? But he's amazing. Like that is so like he I think one of the things is that the fact that he's an actor as opposed to a host. So he just like envelops the character. He's like, yep, I'm going to go all out with this. Like when what's his name? Allan coming for the US version it was it was a little bit too much. It was like over the line that Roger just like rides this balance perfectly between camp and host and you know, it's great. As far as the challenge itself I was like the getting the money like sneaking around I kind of dug it. I did think that I did like the fact that he goes 30 minutes regardless I'm leaving if you're here or not.

21:35 I don't know if it really was 30 minutes cuz they were like still walking up to the house with 3 minutes left. How would they get back? Did they walk all the way back? Look would they walk all the way back to the house? So Yeah, that would have been funny hey they just fully left them there like But I mean the challenges are not the biggest part of this show. No. Was this one great to me? It was it was it was whatever. I do like that it pits them especially at this late stage when Liam is like I know that Sam's the traitor and you still like he's behind him while he's climbing through the window and you have to kind of put those feelings aside especially the hurt especially the anger which Liam clearly had and work with them because despite what I know the challenge is still to get more money. So I like that aspect of it. but I mean in general it's always like yeah whatever.

22:29 They got the silver 46,000 out of 50 is not bad. shout out to Camille for being an exceptional team player here as well. I would have been pretty annoyed with Sarah not wanting to get into the muddy water to help me get the silver then you know offering to carry the duffel bag but then takes like four five steps and she's like it's too heavy you take it Camille and Camille ends up with two duffel bags of silver that she has to carry to the next section here but I'm similar to you. I'm not a bit I don't know like the challenges are fun and sometimes can be quirky and funny but like for a finale challenge this was just okay for me Tom as a whole. What's been your thoughts on the challenges as a whole? I think my favorite challenge maybe for the whole season was the mines with a where they had the mines blowing up in their face with the dust or whatever the smoke the black things like I feel like that was maybe like my favorite one so far.

23:22 What did you think of this challenge and your overall thoughts for the challenges throughout the season? Yeah, I think like overall they've been okay. This was my least favorite of the whole all the challenges. I just thought like they weren't really doing anything like it was just like go here then go there and then go over here and then you'll get all the silver and I bet you like how however much I time they actually had was more than 30 minutes and it's impossible to track and they weren't like when they went into the house and it was and like just all the all the silver was just right in the same spot and then like the alarm went off like if I was one of the contestants I would have just stayed in the room when the alarm went off and was like is there anyone even home? Like is there going to be a security guard that's going to like crash tackle me and like arrest me?

24:13 Like what's going to happen? Like it was it was such a silly challenge. It's the butler who would do it. I'll take on the butler you know but he swings an Alfred. Yeah no was it was ridiculous. I feel like you could tell that they knew the challenge itself wasn't the main attraction as well. I think who know that's a great point because throughout this we were explained each one's journey towards the end. They had this monologue explaining what they did throughout the game. You know Liam talked about doing all the dirty work for Sam. Sarah spoke about her grove. Camille talked about being a faithful in the beginning of the game and then having to switch up to become a traitor so she's had the experience of both sides and then Blake and Sam spoke about their dysfunctional relationship and somehow managing to get through the game with Sam obviously talking up how much control he had throughout the season and now that he wants to get paid getting into the end game.

25:07 But like you quite rightfully said, when they do end up finishing this, they do get $50,000 which puts the price pool up to $212,000. So I stand corrected because at the beginning of the season, I kind of shaded Roger a little bit when he said "$250K is up for grabs." And I said "They'll probably put that money up regardless." They actually only managed to get $212K from the $250K in the price pool here going into the end game. So not all of the money was gained. And going back to the house, they had one final banishment to do. And this is where things get spicy. I think Blake tried to make a move here. He tried to feel Sarah out a few times, but Sarah clearly was misled once again here by Sam. I think Camille and Sam were pretty close. And you could also fault Camille at this stage because I do give Camille a lot of credit for how she handled herself at the end of the game.

26:03 But I do think that if Camille actually wanted to win the money, she should have looked for options here to work with a Blake, to work with a Liam, to potentially get Sam out. And I don't think that Camille I've seen a lot of praise for her as a player online. But if we do have one criticism, Connor, I don't think Camille played to win this game. No. And the fact that she in her sort of final speech said "I knew the From the moment you tried to recruit me, I was going to be the sacrificial lamb." But if you knew, then you should have taken steps. And I think she had the opportunity and had the She had the chance there with Liam so gung-ho that it was Sam. Blake knowing their tumultuous relationship, and I think Camille had a little bit of insight into that. They probably would have discussed what happened at some point in that in Traders Tower and how they were kind of little bit of friction.

26:57 She could have played that for sure. And Blake would have turned on the drop of a hat. Like I think he would have. because that's just he was so worried that Sam was going to do it to him that traitor paranoia absolutely would have kicked in. So she had a chance and she just didn't take it to only know that how it was going to sort of play out. Well, at least that's what she said. She maybe just covering like I knew the whole way kind of thing. That's what I got from it. I felt like I felt like she was covering when she said that. But I mean I could be wrong cuz I know she stuck to that story even in her interviews. Andrew Lee says this season will be studied in classes from now on. Example game theory. it's kind of it's very true and I think that to bring up a Game of Thrones sort of reference here, I feel like they were heading towards the Red Wedding and this was the point where they could have stopped it from getting really bloody going into the end game here.

27:49 But the wrong moves were made. Chad dude, he assists the hotel where it was filmed is on the same road as my cousin. So I've stayed at the Robertson Hotel and it's a lovely place. Oh, that's good to know, Chad dude. That's really cool. Andrew Lee says so much bad game of theory moves. Yeah, 100%. So what was that, Kuna? The Southern Highlands where it is, it's a beautiful place. Right. We'll have to check it out. I mean, this is great advertisement for them as well, right? To be able to film it out there. and yeah, stunning. Looks like a stunning location where they're at. But overall here, we do see at the banishment that Liam does end up getting voted out and Sarah's face was golden after realizing that yet again, she's managed to banish another faithful and Sam looked on with the biggest of smiles at this stage cuz the gig was up at this stage. Sarah knew Sam was the traitor and he didn't care if he showed that because they were three v one going into that finale night.

28:46 This is where the whole end game gets explained to us, Tom. It's very interesting because we had the Traitors' Dilemma play out, I believe, for the first time in a Traitors season. We had three people get to the end, and the rules are that if three Traitors get to the end, they either have to share the money or steal the money. And if all of them decided to share the money, they would have split the 212K between three of them, which would have been close to about 70K each. or they could have chosen to steal. If one stole, they got all of the money. If two stole, they split the money. But if all three of them stole the money, that would mean that they would all leave with nothing. And I feel like this being a Traitors game, this is always going to be such a dilemma because the people who are Traitors are normally quite treacherous themselves. Tom, what did you think of this Traitors' Dilemma and the twist at the end game here?

29:39 Did you like it or not? And why? I found it pretty Yeah, because yeah, I've seen I've never watched any show before. Like I was just like, what's happening? Like I was amazed. But I found it funny how like the end to the entire show is something that like US Survivor has done a couple of times in the past four seasons as like a really insignificant early game, not even twist, just like a I guess it's like feature of the early game. And yeah, like but I thought it was interesting and I felt like no matter what, something bad like was going to happen. Like if I was Camille or if I was Blake, like knowing risk saving. You couldn't You couldn't risk sharing, right? Like I feel like sharing was like a non-option. Well, what I would have done is I would have been like, "Okay, guys, like I know we all want this money for ourselves, but let's all like show the boards to each other and write share at the same time.

30:36 I really don't want to go home with no money. That would make me very cranky. I wouldn't appreciate that very much. So, can we talk Yeah, I would say that and then I would continue to write steal while saying it. Because at the end of the day, 100% would have done it. Like listen, think about it this way. Do you want to be the sucker, the only sucker that said share and then the other two said steal or even one of them said steal and you go away alone with nothing? The 100% the right move was like listen, we're all going to crash and burn right now. Like I feel like I could live with losing the money with everyone else rather than saying share and losing the money while other people won. No, but I would make I would make everyone show Yeah, I would make everyone show like write share like reverse like flip the board around. producers would have something to say about that. Well, you know, one thing I'll fight them too.

31:27 It's game theory, Adi, isn't it? The traitor's dilemma is copied from the prisoner's dilemma, isn't it? I believe there is like it's the prisoner's dilemma. So, it's just game theory. Survivor stole it from the prisoner's dilemma. So, yeah, so I mean I've heard it before. The right move is always to steal. It's never to share. this one specifically, when you know that like is there anyone on planet Earth who didn't know that Sam was going to write steal? Yeah, he was so obvious. Like with his ego, with him saying I've run the game, I'm the sheriff, like he 1,000% thinks that he deserved all of it. He didn't even know he thought Blake was he probably thought Blake was going to write share as well. He just thought his spell was so strong over these two and he was going to swindle them out of it. He just knew that's what it was and they should have known that 100% as well and the only way to combat it when you're talking about game theory, you're right.

32:22 The only the best maximum game theory sort of meta strategy is you have to write steal. As soon as you write share, you're at a disadvantage. But when you have someone that is 1,000% going to write it. So, like you're maximizing what you can get. In this instance, it was always going to be zero. As soon as Sam walked into that, it was always going to be zero. so, your maximum is zero share. Yeah. By choosing That was the only possible outcome. Yeah. was Traders themselves. Like Andrew Lee said you're in the beginning of the live. The good news is that there will be a third Traders are you due to the money they saved in the season. So, saving that money for not having to give it to anyone actually means there's going to be another season. And what was funny to me is that, you know, Tom, we had Sam basically laughing in the face of Liam leaving, laughing in the face of so many of these people being a showman, which is all good with me.

33:21 I'm good with playing the game hard. Like basically smiling in a very interesting way to Sarah when she was revealed as, you know, the last person that was the final and leaving the game. He was Everything was going all Trump's for Sam at this stage. Like he was feeling on cloud nine, but as soon as Camille turned her back on Sam Cahuna, how dare she do that, Cahuna? How dare she make the best decision for herself? Blake and Sam deserved the money. She came in last minute and she dared to think she was entitled to that money, Cahuna. What did you think of Sam's reaction to losing this game? I think it was completely expected. The reason why Like I've not been I've not been a big fan of Sam in terms of like I don't think he's played that good necessarily, but I do see that he's effective.

34:16 And I think I'm like I see I'm opposite to you. I think he played well. I think he played well, but I think that he showed his true colors at the end. And there's the saying there's the saying in life that you can tell a lot about a man when he loses and how he to it opposes to when he wins. Cuz when you win, things are easy, but how do you react to losing a game? And I thought it was pretty despicable. The social or he had this he had this real almost like emotional manipulation that he tried to do with Kamil, which I just did not appreciate. I didn't stand for it personally. Yeah, after the fact as well. See, the thing with Sam, and I think I can see why you know how we've talked about how you can separate game from personality, but Sam has copped a lot of heat this season online. People are not happy with the way he's treated.

35:06 But I think I know why. I think I know why. Unfortunately, what people see in Sam is the same toxic thing that some people see in real life. In the workplace, the cocky good-looking, charismatic manipulate, gaslight, get through, get what they want, and people see that and have a bristling to it. They don't like seeing it because they've been affected by it. And Sam has I think why he's so great at being a traitor and why he felt like a duck to water is because he's probably been like this in many aspects of his life. I definitely got that. I feel like he's gotten away with a lot in life and things have always gone his way, and this was the first time someone said no, and he had this rejection in his face. It was so like so obvious that like you could like I don't want to be too polite, but it seems like he comes he acts from a place of privilege.

36:03 And were someone in this show But he tried to say that Kamil was in a place of privilege. He said that when Kamil said listen Yeah, like he talks like a rich person. Exactly. When Kamil said like listen, we should all we played a great game, and he's like well, that's something that sounds like something a rich person would say. Like he was just acting so and the best thing of all was he was looking at Blake for like confirmation, and Blake just stayed quiet. And towards the end, Blake would just said listen, mate, I've had enough. I'm walking off." He didn't even indulge it, Tom. What Those words never had bigger impact. I'm done. Yeah. That was That was Blake's like, "I'm done with you." He didn't say the with you, but the venom that he said, "I'm done." It was just like, "I've put up with your man, for the whole season. And this is what it's got me." Blake was broken. Camille, I think was just like, "Yeah, done with it." But Sam was just so shocked that something didn't go his way for He couldn't He couldn't have He could not He could not have acted in a worse way.

36:58 He could not have taken this loss in a worse way. Like, I don't think there's anything he could have said that would have been worse. And it was apparently, according to Camille's interview that she did, they cut out a lot of what he said. Like, it was apparently a lot worse than what we saw. So, they probably protected him a bit. So, based on this, like and again, I'm being very critical of Sam here. I came into this podcast thinking to myself, surely Sam has looked at this and he thought to himself, "Man, I didn't act in the best way there. Maybe my emotions was a bit high. Maybe." But apparently, he's doubled down on it since the game. He doesn't talk to Camille. Doesn't want to Like, he just thinks he was in the right. And based on that, if that is his outlook and how he feels, I'm okay with not seeing him on Survivor. I know a lot of people are saying we want to see him on Survivor. We don't need to even if he's good TV. We don't It's kind of like when I've got I manage sales people on a like for years and years I've managed sales people.

37:51 Whenever we've got a bad apple in there that is a high performer, but their attitude stinks, we work them out. You don't want that. You don't want to endorse bad behavior. And to me, the way he behaved was horrible. Like, that's how I feel about it. Nothing against him as a person. I don't want to condone hate. I don't want to Like, after the season is done, I'm done talking about Sam. I'm not going to go drag on and go chase him on social media and stuff like that. I don't condone that kind of things. But yeah, I had a strong feeling to this, Tom. I was really disappointed because I thought he played a good game. And I will still give him credit for his game. But like I said, how he acted in the end and the fact that he hasn't owned up to his own mistakes in this leaves a sour taste in my mouth, Tom. I know you were similar to me, you were high on Sam. How do you feel about this? I'm not going to lie. I really enjoyed that moment. Like even though like I feel like to see him lose everything? No, it's like to see him like it's like the sounds like something a rich person would say.

38:47 I thought it was hilarious and like I'm not going to judge him because you know, I don't know like what he actually is until he like does that to me or at least see it like in person like him doing it to someone else. You know, I'm not I'm not going to judge him on it cuz you know, who knows I'm happy I'm willing to put it out there. I'm happy for Sam to come on the podcast and talk to us and call us out on our opinions. Like if he believes he's got a strong case more than just he deserved it cuz he worked the hardest cuz listen, Sam, everybody deserved it, buddy. Everybody signed up for the same show. You like have you never seen reality TV? There's been many a seasons where people have been playing the best game that don't win the money at the end. You know, so they don't deserve it. Like if we were critical of Russell Hantz and Samoa because he played 90% of that game and Natalie did the 10% that was right and she ended up winning it at the end.

39:39 You got to you got to hold Sam to that same standard. You can't just become an Indian saying, oh, I played this game, I deserve more than anybody else. He had main character syndrome in my opinion and his own life and everybody thinks they're the main character of their own lives. You just made me have a thought Yeah, you just made me have a thought like you were saying I don't know if he's ever watched any reality TV before this. I wonder what his hobbies would be like. I wonder like what Sam would do in his spare time. Just You know what he thinks? I was going to say I was going to say he looks at himself in the mirror. He's Patrick Bateman. Have you seen You know Patrick Bateman? American Psycho. He's got too much personality, though. Smug, confident, good-looking, shark eyes that you know he probably he's probably an axe murderer in his spare time or an actual one. He's like, "I do this all the time. That's why I can do it on this show." We spoke about We spoke about this earlier in the season, Danny K, about Sam throwing away those the money earlier in the game and not caring to ultimately not get anything.

40:39 Listen, I know it would be devastating. You've worked hard, you get to the end, you expect to get paid. I get it. But to blame Camille for wanting to play the game, like I blame Camille as well. I blame her for not cutting Sam earlier. 100% but I would not blame her for preventing them. Like in what world should she just be giving them both 100 and what, seven grand or something like that each? 106.5 grand or something like each? Like get the hell out of here, man. Like does she look like you know, social welfare? Like no. Like she's here to play the game for herself, man. Like I just don't get it. Sam did say that if he were in Camille's position, he would 100% give it up. And it's the biggest lie ever told on TV. 100% 100% Sam would never ever In fact, he is in her exact position as far as standing at the end, ability to share it, and he didn't.

41:38 So he's talking about, "I would have done it if I was you." Like you are. You're there at the end. Like what are you talking about? he was emotionally manipulating her at the end and it was pretty clear to see. And I'm glad she stood her ground. I thought she dealt with the heat he was throwing her way very well. She didn't overreact to it. She stayed calm. She stayed classy, unlike him. And she can hold her head high by the end of the season, where I feel like he's got some things to own up to if he wants to or not. That's up to him. He can avoid it. But yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not here for it. Chaddus says, "Difference between George and him is George has a great attitude and respects other people." I agree. Like George takes it like George is just as big of a character, plays this villainous game, but at the end of the day, when he goes out, he takes it like a champ. Because George could have had the same attitude here, Tom.

42:28 Here it says his villainous was George's season. He deserved to get paid at the end of the money. Why did Why did Liz not fall on his sword and vote himself out of the end game so George could get the money after he controlled the alliance the whole season? Because it would have been the exact same argument, right? Yeah. No, I agree like I mean, I can imagine being salty. Like the fact that no one wanted to be That's fair. That's fair. But like yeah, no, I don't think he should have like cuz it did feel genuine like what he was saying to Kamil. and I don't think he should have genuinely said something negative towards her in that moment. But with George, I'm also like saying like he treats people like he was treats people with respect and all that. I don't know how true that is. Like he's great at being like I think he's the biggest hypocrite in the world, George.

43:18 Like you see him on the show and he's he'll be like, "I have I have done nothing wrong." And the And then like the next minute like he'll do something and like And then like even in Brains vs. Brawn, he's going on about how like he doesn't want to waste any energy like before the challenge. So And he goes on a big walk and it like tires him out and he's like, "I'm absolutely exhausted now." And I'm like, "George, what are you doing?" But then the key thing here is he respects the game though. Like he Like he can backstab, he can be hypocrite, but then if someone did it to him, he'd probably go, "Yeah, good boy." it. That's my point. It's the way that Sam left the game for me. Like the Like I was okay with most of his game, but the way that he left a sour taste in my mouth. And I know there's going to be some people who won't agree with this. There might be some Sam fans out there because he was entertaining to watch.

44:11 For me it was for a lot of people. Like I said, I can differentiate between Sam the game player and how the game ended. I don't like how the game ended. I don't like how he took the loss. And like I said, open invitation. Like, you know, if Sam and in fact I might even reach out to him and say, "Listen, Sam, we thought this was a bad ending for you, mate. Like, do you want to come and chat about it? Make us understand where you were coming from." I'm happy to chat about it. I'm happy for him to call us out and say, "You guys haven't played the game. You don't get the emotions that's involved in it and all this kind of stuff." But then I would ask him, "Now that you've had the time and the emotions is out of it, how do you feel about it? Do you still stand by those words?" Like, you've had time to reflect and think about it. Like, can you see how Camille also played the game and was a legitimate player in the game? Like, you weren't the only player in the game. Look, the thing with Sam, like you mentioned Russell before, Chris, Sam did not play the perfect game because he brought Camille to the end in order to do that, right?

45:08 Mhm. Like, he was so confident in his ability to persuade her and manipulate her, but that's a mistake from his part. Like, you can't say he played the best game and deserved it because in reality, she's standing there. She can control most of the game. Most of the game, yeah, absolutely. I do, but all it takes is one fatal mistake, right? Like, one flaw that's enough to end your game. And that's what happened. He made If he would have played the perfect game, he made a mistake at the worst possible time and then that's the result, right? So, yeah, like he can't say I deserved it when you're standing in front of Camille with the opportunity and the power to take away your money. If he really deserved it, he shouldn't have stood with her. He should have stood with someone like Sarah. Well, Sarah probably wouldn't Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, or take Sarah, then the prisoner's dilemma becomes two, him and Blake.

46:02 Yes. And he's a little bit more confident in Blake to be able to share. Camille, he must have been very confident, but again, that's a mistake. That's a misstep. He misjudged his read of Camille in that situation. So, you can't like say it was the game that deserved to win because in reality it wasn't, you know what I mean? Yeah, Danny Kaye here says, "For Camille, I think it was more about playing and winning, not the money. She didn't care about the money as much." And maybe there was something about her being pretty well off and that comment came from something like she maybe is doing okay for herself in real life. I don't know how much federal police agents get paid in Australia and if it's a high-paying job or not. I don't know her personal situation, but you know, at the end of the day we've been going pretty hard at Sam and the reason that I've been going pretty hard at Sam is because of his words. No one put those words in his mouth. He said it.

46:52 You know, like he was the one who acted the way that he acted at the end, which I don't condone. I don't like it, but I can also, if we look at both of the other traders, to move on from it because I don't want this to become a bashing Sam podcast alone. And like I said, this is just looking at it and I don't agree with it, but I also don't want people to go out and go out of their way to make Sam's life difficult outside of the game because at the end of the day this was just a game, right? And it's And it's over now and we can all move on with our lives. But if we look at both Blake and Camille, we spoke a little bit about that as well, where I feel like Blake may probably made the mistake of not trying to get him out earlier, but I feel like there was no lack of for effort. I think he tried to get Sam out a few times, but Sam blocked him along the way, but just playing a superior game and getting people on his side and not to vote against him. And then obviously the other person here was Camille, which I think that if Camille really wanted to win the money, she should have made an effort to work with Blake earlier because she constantly said, "I trust Blake the most out of the two of them.

47:49 I don't trust Sam. I know Sam is someone that is in it for himself." She said that to the camera a few times, even before the last week. So, she clearly was aware of it. She could have made moves. So, both of them are to blame as well when it comes to not winning the money at the end of the day. and I thought it was pretty poetic, to be honest with you, Kurna, that none of them ended up with money at the end of the season. At first, I was a bit deflated, but then I thought, "You know what? After his reaction and how it played out, this probably is the perfect ending for the show." And it is unique. It's a first. The first time we've ever seen a reality TV show where legitimately people go to right until the end of the game with absolutely no money gained from it. And it's so fitting for a show that is literally the traders where the traders kind of backstab each other, pride goeth before the fall, all that sort of clichéd stuff that it makes sense that the bad guys didn't win in the end.

48:39 You know what I mean? Like And they ate themselves. Yeah, and TV shows don't the great thing about reality TV is how unrealistic it can be. And I think if someone wrote this season and like submitted it to their editor, they'd be going, "Nah, implausible. Too unbelievable that this would play out this way." You know what I mean? Like it doesn't make scripted sense for anything. script it. But it was so great that it played out that way. Yeah, first time Well, first of all, I've got some stats for you. Go for it. First time in Traders, any of the seasons, English speaking, foreign speaking, whatever, the traders out numbered the faithfuls before the final episode. the first time that there were two traders going to the finale episode that there were more than two traders, sorry, going to the finale episode. It's the first time three traders made it to the final three. it's the first time contestants voted to steal rather than share during the prisoner's dilemma.

49:34 It's the first time no winner's been declared and the first time no prize money's been given out. So, a lot of firsts for this season. It's a It's a record-breaking season. And it's the first time for Tom to watch Traitors of any franchise. So, Tom Yeah, you If I was If I was one of those traders, I would have been happy getting those delicious breakfasts every morning. So, that's that's my prize money. Oh, I would get in there and like halfway through and Liam would be halfway He'd have bacon in his mouth and I'd be like, "Liam, drop it. That's mine. That's some of his bacon. That's some That's some treacherous behavior there. Are you a traitor? Stealing all of our bacon before we even get into breakfast? I'd be like, "Yeah, I'm a traitor. Vote me off." Idiot's not a traitor. You know, like Oh my gosh. Tom like Someone's been banning seen been murdered and someone's like, "Sorry, what?" the knee the next morning and be like, "Kuna." Listen, I'm not too sure about Tom.

50:33 He may be a traitor or not, but one thing I know is if we want bacon, we better get rid of this guy because he just stuffs his face with it every single morning. I mean, that's the thing. They're working off of no evidence anyway, right? You might as well pick someone. Yeah. The evidence is he's having too much breaky in the mornings. He's trying to make us all weak for the challenges. The I reckon if I were on the next season, they'd be like, "Hmm, well, Tom is a three-letter name like Sam. They both end in M and they both start S and then T. So, he must be the next traitor." It's obvious. It's just Tom. And he's he's a white male with brown hair. It is it I don't know. Pieces of the puzzle all put together, you know. So, I can't go on the next season. I have to wait. I think Chad is asking us here, "Are we going to say that the traders win by getting to the end and no one won the money?" Well, in the challenge, we do that sometimes, right?

51:31 We've got a few people who've made a finale, won a challenge season, but didn't win money because their partner stole all the money from them at the end, but we still see them as champions. So, I kind of feel like this is a win for them even though they walk away with no money at the end, Kuna. On the wiki I just read, it said no winner was declared. There was no winners. So, they don't see this as a winner. So, they're all losers. So, this was truly No, they're all runners-up. So, this truly should have been called the dummies this season and not the traders cuz they all ended up being dummies at the end. None of them winning the money. The game The game won. Channel 10 won at the end. So, we've been talking about game theory, right? And how in previous episodes as well, Chris, it's we've been saying the traders have the advantage. They just don't need to put their neck on the line and they should be able to sort of go under the radar and get through.

52:26 When you're getting towards this end game, and Tom, you said like when you saw the prisoner's dilemma, you were like, "I don't know what's going on here." No one knows because I think it changes depending on the outcome of the season. So, it wouldn't have been that if it was not three traders at the end. Like, they change it kind of like each of the different foreign seasons the first time we've seen it. Yeah, normally it would just be you have to vote in the end game cuz there's enough people left, so you vote people out until you think there's no traders left, and then you say I'm happy with Yeah. I'm happy for everything to be revealed, and then either you win and split the money or not if there's a trader. What is the best approach then? What is the meta strategy you think now looking at it? What's the best way to approach as little traders as possible in the end game. I think that Blake had it right by not wanting to recruit and to avoid the trader's dilemma because if there were two traders left in the game, they would not I don't think you want the trader's dilemma in any circumstance.

53:21 Like, you want to avoid that as best as you can, and I think that is what people will learn from this season. You want to go in there as the only trader or with one other trader. But, if you could go into the finale with you being the only trader, I think that is the safest option because there's always going to be this temptation for the other trader going into the finale to potentially try and vote you out as well so that they can win all the money. So, it's less competition if you can go into a finale as the only trader, in my opinion. Do you reckon though, if they didn't recruit Camille and didn't have her 100% on their side, from that point direct like with all the heat that was going on Sam and Blake at that period of the game, I Camille could have easily Yeah. Yeah it could have could have easily swayed the votes onto them and like I think her joining them was enough cuz everyone trusted her was enough to help them somehow get the heat to taken off them.

54:18 So, who knows if they didn't recruit then both of them could have been eliminated. But this to me again shows why Camille played a horrible game as well and why I don't fully believe and again Camille can come on my hinge and she can tell me why I'm wrong. I'm good with it. I understand we're watching an edited TV show, but I feel like if she wanted to win, she had the opportunity there, K'na. The heat was already on both Blake and Sam when she took that gig. She could have just added a little bit of gasoline to the fire and voted them out, but she was she couldn't do it because again it was that moral compass that some people struggle with when it comes to reality TV where they're like, "I'm too good of a person to backstab these guys." Where Sam spilt the first trader blood, he took out Ash. There should have been no hesitation in Camille's mind to take out both Sam and Blake towards the end to win all of the money. And if she was a true game player, that's the type of game we would have seen from her, K'na.

55:09 Yeah, you're absolutely right. She had every opportunity and it made the only sense really is to not take Sam. Like you had to take that shot and she's working with Like I think I read the same interview you did, Chris, with Camille and she said that it one of the things about being the a faithful is it's so hard to if you come off too smart and a and a traitor on saying. you go out early. If you but you can't be you also can't be too faithful and too dumb where you're at you're no threat and that then you're no threat of being banished by because everyone assumes you're a faithful or knows that you're a faithful. So there's no way they're going to try to banish you cuz you're not a threat there. So then you can get murdered. Like so it's like both ways like very difficult.

56:02 It's very and that's what I said. that. That's personally why I've got no like I love watching Traders and I'll be back for Traders Australia. I'll watch Traders New Zealand and catch up on that one at some point cuz I've heard that it's a very good season and Canada and that. I like watching it as a commentator. It's so much easier to be an armchair critic on this show than actually being out there and playing it. Like I don't have any need or want within me to go and play Traders. Like I would play Survivor cuz I feel like Survivor is hard but it is doable. I would do Amazing Race. I would do The Challenge. I would There's many other shows I would play where I feel like there's certain things that are in your control. But Traders I feel like the balance Tom is exceptionally difficult to get right because like Kahuna said if you're too smart they'll vote you out. If you're someone they can't control like a Mucky, you're a wild child, you're out early as well because Mucky would be doing way too much too early.

56:57 You know, if you're absolutely clueless and nobody believes that you could potentially be a traitor then you're out as well. So it's really hard. How do you play this game? Like the best faithfuls get voted out early on which ultimately leaves the duds towards the end if the Traders are playing it correctly. So what's your thoughts on this? I reckon the way to go is if you're a faithful at least you play the intentional Liam and you just go around being like the whole time. Just wide-eyed being no way. I thought for sure I thought for sure that person that no one's mentioned but just brought up that one second ago was 100% a traitor. And then at the end you're like, "Oh, I actually knew who the traitor was all along." And then you just you go you go from Liam to like to like Boston Rob, you know, like just out of nowhere.

57:48 And then you know, they can't murder you anymore. So, that'd be my strategy. But I think I'd play it. The only The only thing that would make me feel reserved about playing it is, you know, if I went on, didn't make a splash, and got out early, then I probably would never get a chance to play Survivor. Like I'd sacrifice everything for Survivor. So, you know, I'd be cautious about playing traitors, you know, for that reason. By the way, Tom, I love that impression. Do Christopher Walken or something now. Christopher Walken I have to think about that one. I You know what? I think the way to go Michael here with the true The true winners, he says, are the friends that they made along the way. That's the true way Oh, Mockey, you're being too cute tonight, buddy. When you get to the final five, right? And you're going towards the end game, when Roger said there's no more murders, and Liam kind of got that reprieve cuz Sam was 100% going to murder him and gave him an opportunity there, at that point, all right?

58:48 There's no more murders. It's not about being like At that point, it's just numbers. Who can you get on your side, right? Because there's not going to be any more murders. There's not going to be any more It's banishment. It's a vote off. Yeah. So, I think my approach, if you're a faithful or you're a traitor, teams don't matter. It's an individual game when it gets to that point, and hopefully you get to the end and get the money. I think you have to say to the people, "Who do you want at the end now? Who do you want to win this game?" And if anyone said that about Sam, 100% they'll again, "I don't want Sam to win." "Get Sam out now." Like regardless if you're a traitor or you're a faithful, at that point all it comes down to is who do you want to win this game? And everyone's natural instinct is I want to win this game cuz I'm the main character or I need the money or whatever the case may be.

59:39 So the approach is it. I worked the hardest. Who doesn't deserve it then? Who do you not want to be there? And that's the that's the that's the question they should have asked of Liam, of Sarah, of Blake and of Camille because the only answer that they all would have given I think Sarah. I think she would have deserved it the most. Or who doesn't? It is Sam. They would have all turned on Sam immediately. I don't know if that is necessarily how people would have seen it. I still think that they loved him. I think that Sam played a really good game. I think that is the only blind spot to his game that you have Kahuna is that you think that he was a bad player but he was not a bad player. He had control of these people. He had control of these people. I don't think he was loved their Do you think he would have gotten as deep and have gotten people to do all of his bidding if they didn't like him? Cuz I don't think that they would have. Like I think the only person who woke up to him at the end was Liam.

1:00:29 Yeah, like I don't think he's a bad player. I think he played a good game. I don't think like it's where you put the rating. Like you know what I mean? Like I think he played not a bad game. player of the dominant season. They were all dummies. Yeah, we were listed by how bad they were. His game looks better in comparison because they were so bad. I think I know what's going on here. I think Kahuna is the Simon to Sam's George. I think I did that right. I think it's just like he can't let like you know Sam win or anything. It's like you'd be there on Traders targeting Sam every single episode. You know. Watch out for Fans versus Favorites Traders Kahuna out there with Sam. Sam, Kahuna's coming for you. It's kind of like Stephen Fishbach and Joey Amazing, right?

1:01:22 It's the same thing. Well, he can't ever go on this show again. Like he can't go on this show again, right? Well, that's my next question. Like if we did have a Traders All-Stars season in the future, who's coming back, Tom? Like who do you have? If you can pick two players. And Like let's all pick two different players. So, you can go first. You can choose the obvious ones if you want, or you can go in a different direction. How about we all pick two players and then Sam's like a already given. So, none of us say Sam cuz he's obviously Sam will come back. Sam will come back. If he's on Traders All-Stars, he's back. So, it's boring wasting a vote on him. So, I'd say Camille Andrew with the Sarah vote? Yeah, Sarah completely off the hinges tonight. I want to see Sarah. No, I'd say Camille and Like Not if Camille doesn't play to win.

1:02:13 I don't need to see her back. Like if she comes back with a different attitude and tries to win the game, then yeah. Because I don't know if it was because she legitimately tried to win the game because the problem is like Ahuna said, if what she is saying is true and she was onto Sam's game way in advance, she didn't play to win. And I don't need to see that. But if she was kind of playing up the fact that you know, she knew more than what she did, then okay. Yeah, she can come back. But I want people who are going to play to win all the money. Those are the people I want on the game. I just think cuz obviously Sam's a lock. Having Camille back like the drama between those two coming back. But also like I don't want to say Luke because Luke is like to me, he's not like a Traders All-Star. He's a Survivor. Luke needs to come back. I feel like we've seen Luke on other and I'd rather see Luke back on Survivor in a future season than any of these other shows.

1:03:05 Or maybe like Amazing Race. Luke and David Canado on Amazing Race would be fun. Oh, that'd be the best thing ever. Even Luke and even Luke and Jericho. Like I could even sign off on that. That would be cool as well. Luke and Sarah. I'm sure you'd see Sarah still active on another reality TV show. I don't know. Luke and just putting it out there. Since we're going down the line, I'll go play with you, Luke. Luke and Tom cuz we're such good friends. So, we're going completely off the hinges here. Tom, so you've got Camille and who else? I've got Camille. To be honest, I did I didn't like Annabelle, so I'll let one of you vote her because I know one of you will. What? sorry, yeah. Talk about it. Talk about it. Let me know. Hey, he's coming after my girl here. He's coming after my girl here. I just I just felt like she's not the kind of person I would hang out with in my spare time. I was talking to Mucky about this.

1:03:55 Just very extra. I know I'm a very extra person, but she's extra in a different way to me. So, yeah, not You don't think that like listen, I think that she does have that personality, but I do think that when you're on TV show, you amp it up even more. You don't think like it was a bit amped up? Yeah, no, I'm pretty convinced that she be like that in real life. Oh, I know who my other person is. I'm Rohan. I want to see him play again. He was great. Taken too soon. Yeah. I feel like Tom, you need to be on the interview we do with Annabelle now like because Annabelle's so far the only person who's trying to get on the channel to come do a podcast with us. So, now we need to get Tom on here so he can face his demons. See, I could like just be really mean and roast her which I but or I could be nice. No, okay, you're off. You're off the channel. Get him out. Let's kick him out. Let's get him out of here, you know. We don't need that. I normally reserve kicking people off the podcast for Mucky, but tonight Yeah.

1:04:47 Tom has been way too naughty. So, we're giving him the Mucky special. Have you cooled down a bit, Tom? Are you proud of me, Mucky? I did it. He's the Robin to Mucky's Batman. He's the he's sneaky Steve. I'm getting serious Liam vibes from Tom tonight. I'm getting serious Liam vibes. The Robin to Bat to Mucky's Batman. What do you mean? That's two Robins right there. Yeah. No, I liked I loved Annabelle. Annabelle was amazing. So, I can't agree with it. And everybody here as well saying loved like listen, I'm going to say Annabelle regardless cuz Annabelle's my girl. Like I'm putting her on there regardless. But so, who's the other person and I'll talk about why Annabelle is so amazing after this because Tom's coming up with a very cold take here. not everybody can be right all the time, Tom. That's okay. Tell us You know, you can join Mucky in his very cold takes.

1:05:38 I'm perfect. Thank you. So, who else? Who else? Come on, man. You stole on this. I said Camille and I'm Camille and Rohan. Is that Yeah, that's how you say his name? The really is not extra. He doesn't come across someone that's a bit extra in his life. He's extra in my kind of way, okay? Okay? So, it's different. You wouldn't understand, Chris. You're not as extra as I am. So, you know. Kuna, bring back some I didn't realize we had an undercover Mucky on the podcast tonight, Kuna. Who would you bring back? Who would you bring back? You can't choose Annabelle cuz I've chosen her and I'll speak to her in a little bit. Who else would you bring back from the show? I would love Annabelle. I think similar to Tom's Rohan pick, I think Elias was gone too soon. I just wanted to see more of his outfits. The neon pink full set like top and bottom.

1:06:31 Like I loved Yeah. that was earlier early on in the season. And I really dug Guyton. I like I don't know if necessarily know from a game perspective cuz we didn't get enough of him. but I liked his personality. I dug him on screen. Did you like the fact that he was sticking it to Roger the whole time about all the awards he won and things like that and Roger was feeling inferior? It was good. It was very good. I also have a special place in my heart for Guyton. He's the original Ender Belly, Carl Williams. And there was a movie TV movie years and years ago when he was just young, a teenager essentially, which I don't know if anyone else has seen on Earth, but I remember watching it and going, I like this kid. He's a good actor. And then he became Underbelly, and then he became Guy and Granny, and he became The Traitors. So, I've got that going long way back with him. So, I'd like to see him again.

1:07:21 Yeah. Yeah. why is no one saying Mark he was the goat from last season? I also saw Nigel because we're talking about season 2, Chad. We're talking about season 2 because Tom hasn't seen season 1 as of yet. But both good mentions, Mark and Nigel, potentially from season 1 to come back as well. for me for from the season, obviously, Annabelle. I feel like Annabelle for me personally was the season. She was completely correct on her reads. I think that she would be the biggest threat though if she was to come back because her reads were so accurate. People will either get on board with her immediately or if she's not a traitor, people are going to vote like the traitors are going to vote her out immediately because of how big of a threat she is. She even came up with the meta strategy of keeping the shield a secret, which they kept using until the end of the game, which I thought strategically she went toe-to-toe with one of the best in reality TV in Australia with Luke Toki.

1:08:13 To the point where Luke Toki was willing to back her going down in flames with Annabelle this season. So, that to me is goat status on its own. I love the one-liners that she was giving us, you know, from the beginning. The whole, you know, you don't want to you know, I don't know the know the exact one, but you don't want to startle your enemy. You want to get in bed with them, and that's when the mic comes out. Things like that. Yeah, like she just had the best one-liners. Plus, she really is one of us. She is a fan of these shows. She's someone that's so involved in the fan community when it comes to reality TV, Melbourne Survivor, you know, she's involved in that. She's really involved online and things like that. So, I mean, I've got her back no matter what. You don't have to listen to Tom, Annabelle. We love you. Myself and Connor love you here, and everybody in the live loves you. Not everybody Not everybody can have it right all the time, you know? If it makes you feel any better, I genuinely felt for her when she was getting banished.

1:09:06 Like the level of gaslighting, I was like, "Damn, that would be tough." So, I did sympathize with her when she got out. And the passion, the passion for wanting to play. Like was there anybody who wanted to play this season more than her? Maybe Sam at the same level, but I feel like she really desperately wanted to play this season and she put on a clinic for us. And who else really from this season is there that's still left that we haven't spoken about? I wouldn't mind seeing Blake play another season in the sense that I thought if he didn't have Sam there to anchor him, he could have been a bit more entertaining. But he really was gun-shy in regards to Yeah, I think Liam Actually, I'd say Liam above because I just want to see if Liam could be as wrong twice in a row like he was this season. And then we get more Tommy-Lee impressions. Yeah, like Yeah, exactly.

1:09:56 Speaking of Christopher Walken before you. He did an impression of Is that Danica? Saying that Annabelle should go on Big Brother. Michael says secretly Tom is one of the biggest fans of Annabelle. So, it's the treat the mean strategy here. The kindergarten strategy. He's negging her. He's negging her. No, it's what it is. That's definitely not definitely not it. So, but by the way, Danica to respond to Danica before my two Total Drama contestants would be Duncan and Courtney all the way. So, you know, they're 100% two best characters in the entire show. Hands down. like I know what you're talking about. You know the animated one? The animated one? Animated one? The animated one? Yeah. Animated one. Great. Yeah. All right. Well, I think that's it here for this season's coverage of Traitors Australia season 2. The finale is done and dusted. Thank you so much everybody in the live Just quickly, sorry guys.

1:10:47 Go. The prisoner's dilemma has like you said, it's been a long time game theory thing. If anyone wants to see something really fascinating, on YouTube there's a British game show where basically the prisoner's dilemma is the game show. It's I have money in front of me, you have money in front of me, you write share or steal from the egg and they open up a golden ball. I think it's called golden balls. Be careful when you Google things like golden balls and see what comes up, but in YouTube, I think it's okay. And there was one that stands out. What the guy did, and this is so fascinating, two people if you both say steal, you get nothing. If you both say share, you share. And one of them says to the other guy, "Listen to me very carefully. I promise you 1,000% I'm writing steal. No matter what you do, I'm going to steal this money and we will both get nothing. But if you write share, I will give you half when we leave here.

1:11:37 You're not going to win it, but I will give you half. But if you don't, I'm writing steal no matter what you do. You cannot convince me to write anything other than steal. But you have to write share if you want anything." So it's like, oh my gosh, what does he do, right? You put him right to it. He ended up the other guy was like, "Are you going to give me money? You're going to give me something." He says, "I will give you something, but I'm going to steal it. Right? 100%. So he ended up sharing and doing what he wanted, and the guy who said, "I'm going to write steal," wrote share. Right. Right. So it was the only way that he could guarantee, or not guarantee, but come close to guarantee that the other guy was definitely going to share by telling him, "I'm stealing no matter what. And if you watch the way it plays out, it's really fascinating. And I was like, I wonder if that like I think three-way is incredibly difficult.

1:12:31 You can't do it very Maybe you could. Maybe you could if you said, "I'm stealing no matter what. The only your only option to get something here is to write share. Maybe you could do it to three, but it's a really interesting Look up golden balls on YouTube. I watched that years ago and every time I see the prisoner's dilemma coming. I go, "Do the thing! Do the golden balls thing!" But no one's seen that video apparently, so All right. For everybody there that is interested in the Prisoner's Dilemma, go check out the video here on YouTube recommended by Kahuna. Danica is saying, "Chris, you have to watch it." And I believe that is to the show that Tom mentioned earlier. So, yeah, there's a lot of TV at the moment, Danica, that I have to watch that I haven't even watched Traitors New Zealand yet. and if I was to go play Traitors New Zealand season 2, I better get my game up because it doesn't look like Mookie's getting the call, right, Mookie? Got to rub that in while he's there.

1:13:24 So, I've got to I've got to go you know, brush up my skill set on that. and also we have here Natalia saying, "Can't wait for season 3." Yes, I think season 3 is going to be good. If it's anything like this season, I feel like it did improve from the previous season and I do think season 3 will continue to improve even more. Michael is saying, "I don't even." What can I say, Andre? You know, like Mookie has been taking shots instead of being in the live tonight. Like a like a man, he's been a keyboard warrior on the sidelines. So we got to we got to we got to call him out. We got to call him out. Hey, for everybody here in the live, thank you so much for joining us tonight. if you haven't subscribed yet, please consider subscribing to the channel. We're five subs off from 2,000 subscribers. When we hit 2,000 subscribers, we'll do a very special live. I'm hoping that we can hit that within the next week so we can make some plans for that to celebrate the success here of the channel.

1:14:17 If you like this content, we are going to be back. Myself, Kahuna, and Jake will be back to talk about Survivor 45 this weekend. we'll be doing our draft pick on the channel as well as challenge content between myself and Kahuna talking about the latest episode and Wheel of Time with my boy Wheel of Time will be happening again here on the channel as well. We had so much fun doing that last week. So, plenty of content still to come. Thank you everybody here in the live and catch you guys next time. Bye.