Julia Vahry Interview: Traitors NZ

0:00 Welcome back to the Nullified Take channel here on YouTube where we've got the TNT takes except with a twist. It's the Mucky Take baby. I'm your host Mucky and today I'm joined by very special guest. She was a finalist on Traders New Zealand. She made the smartest move of the week for week two in Hamish and I's smartest move of the week competition. It is the great Julia. Julia, how are you? Oh, I'm so good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on. You know, Hamish has been a massive fan of you throughout this like entire series and he's been telling me the whole time, Mucky, you got to get a deep dive with Julia. Oh, I'm so pleased because I was I guess probably my game play was a bit under the radar.

0:51 So, yeah, but we can we can smash that out and go into that conversation shortly. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like at moments, especially at the start, we didn't really get to see your game play, but as time sort of went on we slowly got to see more insight behind some of your strategy, like who you were sort of aligned with, the groups you were in and going forward. What was your experience with the show overall? Yeah, I mean it was it was amazing and I know a lot of us when we were approached to do the show initially I actually said no and out of all the weird places that I got asked I got shoulder tapped via LinkedIn. And it went into a spam folder and you know, because there's always a billion people going, can I do your SEO marketing and you're like, goes straight to the folder.

1:46 So, I left it there and then got a follow up and I wouldn't say they were persistent but they were like, hey, no, this is legit. We'd really like to meet you and said, you know, like, "We'll have to even take this meeting, we need to have a like an NDA signed." And I was like, "Oh, well. Okay, this must be legit." took the meeting and initially I was like, "Oh, heck no, I'm not doing reality television because I was nervous with how they would edit it and how you would be portrayed or would they create a certain character for you and etc. and they said, "Oh, no, before you make your decision, come back to us on Monday and watch some of the UK format because All right. you know how it is actually when you hear it's quite a complex game and format to understand.

2:41 You don't really understand how good it is until you to watch it. And I know that a lot of audiences here in New Zealand found the same that it wasn't until they started watching it, they're like, "Ah, it's good." Yeah. So, yeah, so I watched I watched the BBC some of the BBC version, not all of it. kind of came in halfway through and my partner and I just looked at each other and went, "Hey, this is a really cool opportunity to experience something that's once-in-a-lifetime and yeah, give it a nudge, I guess." Yeah. Yeah, so it was crazy. Well, first actually question I had for you, do you know, how much of Traitors UK or potential Traitors US, I know that Traitors Australia probably had their first season up before you guys went out to film. How much of the Traitors did you actually watch before you went out?

3:34 Was it just the UK or just the UK one, but I didn't see the entire season, so I came in maybe like halfway through. So, I got an understanding of the game and kind of organized my thought pattern as how I would play it. So I guess we probably did have that advantage over you know other global formats. But in saying that I know that with the New Zealand format although we did some missions that were similar it was it wasn't the same. There's there was a lot of things that happened that they did deliberately to kind of throw us off. Mhm. So yeah and I for me it was a different experience because I went in there being a normal person.

4:30 And so I guess probably the advantage and disadvantage for us was not having any rapport. We had no we had no relationship so it was something that we had to build. We were kind of unknown people. And that was a good and a bad thing. So it could work favorably and also not. So Yeah I was excited. I was excited to get my teeth stuck in and see where I could take it and stay see how long I could stay in for. Yeah you're absolutely right you know it's an advantage and a disadvantage cuz we saw you not really been the spotlight really for that long whereas on Robbie the other hand who was a bit well known was put on the hot seat straight away on well both of the cast of celebrities the way Yeah. Yeah.

5:20 And that was kind of how it went you know like Robbie I know that Vander got a lot of hate early on and I think around episode three or four maybe the room switched to me I think. But actually it was actually when you break it down a lot of people are like oh my gosh and they get nervous when you've got suspicion or pressure on you. For me it was actually a good thing. Okay. Because when I when I went into the game, I was like, "There's two ways that you can play it in my mind." So, I was really relieved when I wasn't selected as a traitor because I didn't think that I could pull it off. Okay. And it was it was really hard work for them because although they can see everything going on, it's a really hard balancing act, I think, looking for moves and trying to sustain what the gameplay character all the time.

6:23 So, I was kind of thinking, I think I want to be a faithful. I think it will just naturally be easier for me to just work the room that way. So, I was very relieved when I wasn't selected. and my strategy was if I can last maybe till day four or day five, kind of being under the radar, then I slowly wanted to build suspicion because I liked the idea that if you had enough suspicion on you that you potentially could be a traitor, then traitors would leave you alone because they would go, "We're going to get this girl banished naturally. We don't have to do anything. We'll just let the group sort it out." Yeah. And I actually liked that because my mentality was like, "Okay, well, if I have enough questions around me, then at least at night I can sleep soundly knowing that I'm probably not going to be murdered." And in a weird way, my brain was kind of going, "You've got control to a sense." Like, it means that's one thing that you can control, where so much of the game can be out of your control with the traitors conducting how they want the game to go.

7:36 So, yeah, I guess that was how I wanted it to be, under the radar for as long as I could sustain it, and then slowly build suspicion to keep me in, and just hope I held that things would happen that would change the direction of the game, which they did. So, Yeah. Oh, buddy, what a roller coaster. Yeah, definitely. It's just so interesting to hear you say that you would have much rather been a faithful than a than a traitor, cuz everyone I've spoken to they've all wanted to be a traitor, cuz at least that way, you know, the game is really in your hands, and you kind of have all the cards out, and it just depends how you play the cards and how you move around. Whereas in your case, maybe having all those cards out, like there could be a lot of like, you know, pressure, quite stressful, you might slip up, and that's how you get banished.

8:28 But at least with your way, like, you know, being a faithful, you just don't have that pressure, and you're kind of just going day by day. Yeah, definitely. And you can look for opportunities as well. And one thing that I did during the game is that I would obviously we didn't have phones or I didn't even bring a watch, for goodness sake. So, Oh, wow. I had no concept of time. So, when you would go back to your rooms after we had finished filming for the day, but I had no idea how long I had been there for, what the time was, like, when I woke up I just made the executive decision that I'd just wake up naturally, and then have a shower and get ready and stuff, and just wait. But there was so much waiting, and the longer that you would wait, like, the more psychotic you would feel. You're like, "Oh, man, is it all over?" And then somebody would knock at your door, and they'd be like, "Pack up your stuff." You're like, "Okay, well, it's I've been cat." And they're like, "No, we're just moving you're moving rooms." So, we there was all this stuff happening to us all the time.

9:28 Although we were in a really beautiful place, the mental torture was something that I didn't expect to be as intense as it was when we were filming. Like they really outdid themselves in terms of like making us paranoid. which I think you can see that. And the longer that you're in the game, the worse it is. So it's yeah, it's so much harder and especially with audiences critiquing on the couch, you kind of forget that remember you're seeing even more than what everyone else is seeing in the game. So you see the traitor's perspective and the faithful's perspective. So for an audience it's like, "It's so obvious." But it really isn't. It's really not when you're playing it. it's just insane.

10:20 It's insane. Have you been watching The Traitors Australia season 2? I have. Oh my goodness. I just want to say I'm a massive Sam fan. I know that everyone is very You either love him or you hate him. But just with how he's able to move throughout the game, like every week I was like, "Nah, he's done. Like he's finally cooked." And then somehow he skates by. It was so It was crazy, right? But then as the audience when you're watching it's like, "You idiots. How can you How come you can't see that?" But then because you're under this spotlight of scrutiny where everything that you do, like every movement or body language or like a look or the tone, you're so paranoid that if it's like it's such an unnatural environment.

11:11 So with him, you know, like at the roundtables how Sam would like shift it. And they'd be like, "Sam, I think you're the traitor." He goes, "Well, I think you're the traitor." And then everyone is like, "Yeah, it's too obvious." You know, and it's maybe in a normal environment people would be like, "It's Sam." But because it's this unnatural world that you're in the bubble that you're in. you question absolutely everything that's going on. So you go, "Oh, I think it is too obvious, maybe." Yeah. which is why the format is just so fascinating to watch because audiences are screaming at the TV going, "What are you doing and why did you do that?" And it is so intriguing actually unwrapping it to understand what was happening in their head or how they were perceiving things at the time. And unfortunately with the thing you don't get to see that.

12:01 So what I found like for the cast with us was a lot of them were like, "Oh, I wonder why they didn't show that conversation that we had or Mhm. you know, like if we were having a one-on-one conversation with the camera, you know how you would see those clips of us going, "Well, I think it's such and such." I was always intrigued as to why they didn't show certain things because in my mind it might have showcased the story a little bit more. but of course like we were filmed for you know, 12 hours a day and there's like 19 people. Can you imagine the monstrosity of editing? Yeah. The content were like totally crazy. So yeah. Yeah. That's probably one of the hardest things as a producer or an editor is being like, "Okay, we have so many different conversations happening you know, across cuz how many days was it per banishment?" so we I understand that Australia was way different.

13:03 So potentially maybe the budget, but the way that we did it we did it we smashed it out in 10 days. So Oh. So the whole entire filming was 10 days. Oh, wow. That's So we played as you saw it. So there was no like constructed production intervention at all. It was like show up. We're filming it as is in situ right now and the game played and the filming played along with the game. So, you know, we had the 10 episodes. Well, that's because we filmed for 10 days and that was kind of how the voting ended up in the end. And I know that the Australian one went to nine because of how the game played out. Nine episodes. So, Yeah, but I know that they filmed for a really long time.

13:54 Because they were able to. But we had like banishments every night, breakfast every morning. And I know that they had a different setup. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, no, it must be quite hard finding, you know, especially everything in one day on. Okay, how can we fit all these different conversations to show a story in only like an hour-long episode, right? It must be quite hard Yeah, and that's why I was saying like there was so much content for them to pick through. It's like, how do they create the storyline out of what happened? And they kind of they did such an amazing job and it was really exciting for us to see as well because we only saw the first two episodes in advance, maybe like two weeks prior to the show airing. But we were watching with you guys. So, when episode three came out, we were watching for the first time with the rest of the world.

14:49 And that was terrifying. But yeah, it was really it was such a buzz and I know a lot of us pre-watched it like as soon as it launched on three now. A lot of us were like, "Refresh." We had to watch it first to be like, "Okay, prepare yourselves for, you know, you're going to look like a ding-dong in this saying this." Or you know, it was yeah, quite terrifying watching yourself going, "Oh how am I going to come across here?" Yeah, definitely. But something I loved about Traitors New Zealand though compared to a lot of other, you know, sort of New Zealand shows or international shows. So, I really feel like our sort of culture, cuz you know, I'm from Mount Maunganui, but I live in Auckland at the moment. I felt a lot of our like classic New Zealand culture really showcased throughout the whole season.

15:40 Like a lot of our humor, our banter. There was that one mission at Sheep World or something like that. Yeah. I absolutely loved it. And yeah, I feel like a lot of those sort of classic Kiwi moments was actually kind of shown throughout the show, which I thought was really lovely to see. Yeah. I agree. And yeah, you're so right. And it was simple and it goes to show that it's not saying that the production was simple, but it didn't need to be overproduced. They casted the show incredibly well. And we did simple missions. I know a lot of people are like, oh, the lodge is budget and it's not a castle or but it didn't actually matter when you when you watch the series. Us having a significantly less budget than other formats, I think what we created was really beautiful and down-to-earth.

16:34 And also like they didn't need to construct a storyline where it made people nasty or mean or really critical of one another, which isn't your typical like, I guess, what people expect out of reality television, but it was still brilliant. And the cast seriously incredibly wonderful people. And I think that's probably the best thing that we've all taken out of it is friendships for life because we've had that weird bonding experience where yeah, it's I just amazing people. Far out. South Pacific Pictures casted perfectly. I don't think we could have got a better crew. Yeah, really truly. Yeah, it's like I personally think Traders in New Zealand is the best Traders in the globe at the moment.

17:24 And that's not me being biased, you know, I've seen the second Australian one. I've seen the start of the first Australian. I've seen we've got some bits and bobs of the UK and US, but I don't feel that natural like gravitation towards it like I did with New Zealand. Yeah, and I feel like the game play as well was very It was really good. Yeah. Yeah, and what I really liked about our game play was classic Kiwis I mean, as you know, I get got kind of harder for us at the end because we were so good Yeah. and identifying Traders is it made it almost harder for us at the end because we were bringing in faithfuls, so they weren't OG Traders anymore, which mentally made it quite hard for us to know that we were turning on one another. Yeah. But I What I really liked about it is that when we were identifying Traders or discussing it, we were actually quite methodical and strategic and tried to cut the emotion out of it as much as we could and actually looked for evidence-based theories rather than just like massive pylons.

18:30 And it's savage because statistically you do have to get rid of your own. Like faithfuls have to go. There's no two ways about it. But I think we did like Trader faithful, Trader faithful, Trader. You know, like That was That was insane and to get be able to get the majority votes which is also a really hard thing to do to be like you know, who's going to organize this and be like Is this what we're doing? It was It And also, you've got to be so careful if you're have that leader type personality. I tried to avoid that at all costs because I had seen that if you were showed that you were good or if you had any leadership skills or if you could hold the room, then that was a target.

19:20 So, I kind of positioned myself where I was like Oh, I'll go with you. Even though I kind of knew to myself that I was like, "Okay, that's who I suspect is likely a traitor. I've seen these certain things happen or my big thing was looking at the votes strategically, how the votes were. And every time I would go back to my room, I would write down who said what at each banishment. So, I'd be like, "What was behind them Why did they say that when they were putting down like the vote?" I'd be like, "Okay, that Well, that seems kind of like a wasted vote or was that strategic to make it not look like that they were a traitor or so, I don't know. Maybe Key was we were quite methodical about selecting who was going to go.

20:15 Yeah. Yeah. Sorry I'm thinking about it. Such a Seeing Mike put her go in Kings and Vander. Oh my gosh, it was just such a Oh, and I mean, all of them. Every time you had to take someone out. Actually, even when it was traitor, you felt terrible because you were cutting off people's opportunity to play the game and it was fun to play. Yeah, I was I was just I was about to bring Mike up actually where you know, like talking about you know, getting rid of like faithfuls and kind of like reading the room. Were you aware that cuz I know Dallen was very aware and he went very hard at Mike for it that Mike wasn't as like celebrating as much when Lauren got see it because a lot of that was the beauty of the round table is because we were positioned.

21:08 So, I was sitting next to Colin and Jazey, Justine, or at the start I think Chris might have been next to me, but Paul Chris didn't last that long. so I couldn't actually see and I think Mike was next to Colin, so I couldn't see his facials. I could only see right like straight across from me and this the front of the table. so, no, I missed that. When Mike went I didn't want to vote out Mike, but I was in the same position. I think Brody might have touched on it, but they showcased Brody going I don't want to do it, but I know that's where the room is going. Mhm. And you kind of have to go it's like it's such a savage game where pile-ons to a degree almost naturally have to happen in the game.

22:02 And if you put kind of pipe your head up and vote for somebody else then it's kind of like oh, why did you do that? Yeah, definitely. don't want any spotlighting to happen. You want to You want to be like as DL as possible for as long as you can before that starts looking sus- suspicious. So, yeah, it's psycho and a lot of people go oh, it's so easy, but it's really not because every little thing that you do can be taken out of context. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Cuz something that Chris and I have chatted about a lot is that he said that he'd be quite scared going to play Traitors cuz just the tiniest thing, you know, you can breathe oxygen in the wrong way and everyone's like ah, there's a traitor. There's a There's a traitor.

22:52 So, it'll be so hard especially once that suspicion is on you like we saw it with Paul Robbie. Once I got a little bit suspicion on her, she just could not shake it throughout the entire game. Yeah. And it And it keeps coming back. And do you know what's totally wild? Is that I because we weren't really talking None of the cast after we finished filming really talked to each other. So, we weren't A lot of Some cast wanted to know that had gone early wanted to know the outcome of the game. But the majority actually didn't. The majority wanted to be like keep me in the dark. Don't tell me what happened. Like I know Dylan didn't want to know. Colin. Oh, there were There was a big Oh, Justine. I don't think Brody want Oh, I can't remember actually. But there was a big portion of people that didn't want to know. And so, it was really exciting for them.

23:43 And I didn't know until like 2 weeks before it aired that Robbie wasn't an original traitor. Right? Like for 6 months, I thought that she was original. Oh, what? Like that's how much of a brain fog. Like that's how much I was manipulated to think that was That had happened. Crazy, eh? Yeah, that is nuts. Yeah, I felt so bad for Robbie cuz Hamish and I we did, you know, meme and joke about her quite a bit on the podcast, which I'm really sorry, Robbie, if you felt bad for that. But I just found that she would It would just be the tiniest thing she would say or something she would do. It would just turn everyone against her. And Oh, I just felt so bad for her. And the one time she was a traitor, that's where she gets eliminated. It's so sad.

24:34 Can you imagine how frustrating that would have been? Like standing up and knowing that you were brought in as the patsy and not being able to say, "Well, I wasn't. But I am now, you know?" And then for us to be all like, "I KNEW IT." LIKE IT WAS I MEAN, I THINK CUZ ANNA AND I WERE ON the on the blowout on the phone, and she goes, "Oh, it was so crazy about Robbie." And I go, "What do you mean about Robbie?" And she goes, "She was a Pepsi." And I go, And she goes, "Yeah, like Brooke and D'Angelo brought her in." AND I WAS LIKE, "WHAT?" I HAD NO IDEA. SO, and to everyone else, they're like, "What a smart player. So obvious." but I truly had no idea. And my the crazy thing is my gameplay was I know you guys talked about it was on day two I think it was.

25:30 And they didn't They didn't show my strategy because I was trying to work through like evidence-based stuff. So, I was like, "Okay, well, this happened." on day two, we were in the car and I think the night before Robbie had said something like, "I would I'm going to be too drunk to murder anyone." But in that game, you know, you can make those offset You can make those comments. But in the game where everybody's psycho, you can't make those comments because everyone's like, "What does that mean?" You know, like Yeah. You know, you wouldn't say that if it wasn't front of your mind and you were thinking, you know, like if you were a traitor. And then in day two, we had that incident in the car, in the car. and I think Kings was in the front seat, Robbie was driving, I was in the back, Chris was in the middle, and Mike was on the other side.

26:21 And she said something like she was talking about Kimberly, "Oh, we were right to get rid of her." Yeah. And so, MIKE AND I WERE, "WHAT?" AND it seemed to be we were the only ones that heard it. And my mind was kind of like when I'm driving This is I'm trying to explain to you guys so you can understand how the end game played out. In my mind, if I'm driving, I'm the driver, and I've got somebody in the front seat, I would say, "We were right to get rid of her" in a way. If I was having a conversation with the person that was next to me Yeah. front and Kings is in the front and they were having, you know, this conversation and we were like the three kids in the back. And then my brain was, oh my gosh, I think it's Robbie and I think it's Kings because of that conversation. And then Chris went, you know, she got murdered and I thought it was like this Pinson movement where all of us in the back seat were going to get taken out.

27:19 So, on day two, I thought my game was up. I was like, ah. I'm in this car with this situation and it wasn't even anything like that. So, it was crazy. And so, I hung on to that going, should I think you know, and when Robbie got voted out as a traitor, I was like, I think my theory is right. Maybe it is, you know, maybe it is Kings. And so, there's just so much stuff that went on where yeah, didn't get airtime and so, people were trying to explain what they thought was happening, but you didn't get to see it. So, a lot of a lot of the time people would be so shocked at a at a round table or like a move. Like with the Anna move, for example, nobody really got the insight as to where that came from. And I think that made it more exciting for television because everyone was like, WHAT THE HELL?

28:11 LIKE, WHY DID SHE DO THAT? You know? we can talk about that if you want cuz I know you want to Why? Why? Well, I'm good if you get into that and just thinking about it. A question I do have is, so you and Kings and Fully as well for a small bit had a bit of a rivalry on the show and with Kings especially, did it start from that comment Robbie made in the car and that's why you guys couldn't really Well, that's why you didn't really trust him throughout the game? No, not actually. Not really. so, the I think it's the maybe like day two or the night that Mike got voted out. So, I think that was episode two. Mhm. But, I got those two votes from Philly and Kings out of nowhere. So, but there was no explanation. And so, I thought that was odd.

29:03 But, I never ever voted for Kings, not once. Yeah. No, it's actually crazy to think about it. Yeah, which is crazy because everyone's like, "Oh, you guys had this beef." And I was like, "Did we?" Because I didn't either vote for him. it was always kind of like in the back of my mind. and I love Kings. And with Philly, I think a vote went for Philly. I Sorry, I'm just trying to reflect back. Oh, that was after the barrel mission, eh? Yes. Yes. I actually tried to stop that from happening. Oh, really? Yeah, which they didn't show. So, I think they showed the a clip of all of us that kind of got shafted after that thinking that we were going to make some sort of assessment, you know, for especially those people those players that were at risk of maybe getting murdered and that hadn't been to the armory before.

29:58 And there was a whole group of us. And like, that was a hard challenge physically for a lot of people. And like, Robbie kicked ass, Vanda, Sam who's got MS, you know, like there was that was a really hard challenge for them. And they all really worked incredibly hard. And a lot of those people really deserved to go. And I think with Philly, he was really nervous that he was going to get murdered. Mhm. And my perception of it with him crossing over twice was that it was he was panicked. So, I was like, "That's a That's a move of a faithful." Because he's panicked that he's going to get taken out. So, in my mind, that was that's a Facebook thing to do. And I showed I think they showed me when we were all kind of like all and dark that everybody had gone to the armor and we'd been shafted.

30:52 And I said I think I was saying to the team I was like I think he's just nervous. I think he's really nervous. And I tried to slow it down but you can't you know when everybody's kind of like on it and emotionally annoyed and then we'd had it was it the night before that weird interaction between Robbie and Philly about something that was said? Yeah. all of us confused. Yeah it was kind of feeding into that. And I think they actually showed a clip of me when we were voting. I went for Philly because I was like I've got to go with the crowd. Yeah. And I don't want to turtle head up because that could spotlight me as being good or like I've got to go with the crowd. But to make a point we're about halfway through the voting and I turned to Jazzy and I said it's not him.

31:46 It's not Philly. And she was like and of course it wasn't but we try I like it was such a savage game. I don't think really anybody had like beef I have no idea I really have no idea where the Kings and Philly original votes for coming for me came from because there was never any explanation. So it was out of the blue it was totally out of the blue. Yeah cuz we see right at the very end you know Brooke he's campaigning really hard to get rid of Colin at this point and he sits you two down he's trying to work it guys out but it just can't be worked out unfortunately like do you know potentially what why Kings especially towards the end didn't really want to work with you?

32:41 I don't think King's and I really got the opportunity to actually talk one-on-one. So a lot of the conversations that we had together were almost orchestrated. So like that conversation that we had with Brooke in the middle, that was like a really amazing play by Brooke as a trader because it was kind of orchestrating and feeding into the distraction of what it was. So when you actually unpack it, like that was amazing game play by Brooke going Yeah. I'm going to I've I know that this is a thing and we've got to keep feeding it because it's providing a distraction for the faithful that we're going to focus on this and then hopefully, you know, in his mind either King's or I will go and then it's just another easy way for us to keep culling out faithfuls to get him closer to the finish line. that night though and King's and I actually I think it was like we've got together on the final day.

33:40 It was episode 9 and 10 where it was really cool some of us cast got together and we hired out a movie theater to watch the last two episodes. Oh man. Yeah, it was awesome. And King's was like far out man, I reckon we could have taken it right to the end if we had actually got the opportunity to talk to one another. Yeah. But it just never came about. And probably the proudest moment that I actually had in the game and I know a lot of people like oh this is where you up and got yourself gannered which is true. Yeah. But I was really stoked because I was so convinced in my head. I was like surely okay, Rob is an original trader. He's in the front seat. King's has been doing weird stuff and then you know, you've got Anna was really convinced that it was King's and I really trusted Anna and I was like okay, well yeah, I think this is the next move we're going to play.

34:32 And then it was like this amazing epiphany in the middle of the round table, which mind you is the most stressful time in the game. Because you're like don't like screw up and you've got like Yeah. film cameras right there and you're God, what do I say? So intense. And Yeah, you know, like I'm trying to explain my theory of what I think has happened in that round table, which you swore where I was like Excuse my language. I was like, "For sake, like stop coming for me." Because he just kept coming. And so I was day nine. I was done. Like I was like, "It's not me. Like what the hell?" so I kind of like got stuck in and I don't regret it, but I was really frustrated by that point.

35:24 Yeah. And So we're having like not It's not an argument. You're trying to get your feelings across. And Brooke's sitting there like delightfully pleased. This is like let him go. Like let him go for it. And then he was like it's distract He starts talking about distractions and then I went I went like this light bulb went off and I was like, "OH, IT'S BROOKE." AND I WAS LIKE, "This is This is a distraction. This is a distraction." And I'll tell you why I voted for Anna, okay? Okay. Cuz everyone was like, "Why did you do that? You're so dumb." Da. So I thought that there was still one more murder to go. Okay. Okay? So that round table, I was like, "Okay, somebody's going to get murdered after this round table.

36:18 I don't want it to be me." And so my theory was So I had this light bulb. I go, "Cole, we're in this massive ruse. This is a distraction. It's not King's. And at the last minute, I was like, Sam thinks it's maybe Anna. He we talked about that. Maybe it's Anna. Anna hasn't had one vote this entire game. She's just been totally clean. The rest of us, aside from Sam. Actually, I think Sam Brooke had put Sam's name up as a joke. and I was like, "It could be, but I think it's Brooke. But I don't want to write Brooke's name down, because if I write his name down, then I feel like he'll take me out." So, I was like, "It could be Anna. It could be Brooke.

37:09 Go Anna, and then come up with a story why you think it's probably going to be Anna." Yeah. And all like, kind of at the last minute, I was like, "Shit, I've got to do something. I can't vote King's, because from a integrity thing, I need to prove to myself that it's not him. So, I was like, "I know that it's not him. I feel like this is a ruse. It's a distraction." And then, of course, it was. but that at that Anna vote really did That was like for me. Because yeah, and in hindsight, it's a really beautiful thing, you know, like when they tried to I think Brooke and Colin tried to murder Anna with the shield, everybody was like, "Why didn't Julia just say to Anna, why would I try and murder you when obviously I didn't have the shield?" And at the time, I didn't even think of that.

38:01 I was like, "Whoa." I didn't even think of that until I saw somebody's comments on Reddit. I was like, "Actually, damn it, WHY DIDN'T I SAY YEAH, DAMN IT. WE SHOULD HAVE. But you don't you There's so much stuff that you don't think about when you're playing. So, Yeah, it was crazy. So, and then obviously, everybody was pretty upset. Anna I really upset that I had, gone for her after our, like, girl power, you know, 9, 10 days. And, yeah, that just set me up for Brooke's wonderful next move. So, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, now, it's, something as well that I just thought of now is that you could have even potentially been like, you know, "It's between me or Kings, so the fact that I even put a vote on you shows that I'm a faithful." Because I would have risked my game, yeah. Why would I risk it?

38:52 But, I actually You know, I remember Brooke actually said, "Oh, Jolene, I think it shows that you are playing with your heart on your sleeve." Which I was. I genuinely was at that stage, because I was so tired that I just was like, "I want to play with integrity now. I'm like, you know, it's really hard emotional thing for you like as a person, because you're trying to showcase skill and talent and not look like a dick, and there's just and all that you're done. Cuz remember like it was actually quite a nerve-wracking experience sitting down with the camera, and there's nobody in the room. It's just the camera and then the producer or whoever's kind of prompting you questions would be like, "How are you feeling right now?" And you'd be like, "I'm feeling like shit." You're trying to You're trying to not start look, you know, I was always really conscious that if I was voicing how I thought it was, that potentially I was voicing who it wasn't, and then I was going to look like a total egg when it came on television.

39:51 So, I was really quite nervous to, come forward with what I actually thought was going on. So, I did keep a lot of that stuff to myself. All right, fair. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I Just speaking about online stuff, I know this a bit different to what we're talking about, but I remember I believe it was you. You posted something about online trolls. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, what is sort of like is like fan reception to you and the online reception to you? Yeah, I mean you're never going to have everybody that likes you, right? Like there's it's but the majority of it I would say 95% has been really positive. Oh, awesome. Which is really great. There's only been like a few messages that I've had or like comments and people are people are pathetic.

40:43 Like there was comments about the way that you know my jeans tell that woman to not wear such tight jeans or like the blonde's got to go or she's an idiot. And it what I found really fascinating and it's probably based on my time in the police as well is that people have that you know bias against what potentially what somebody looks like, you know, I've got the blonde hair or whatever and so they just automatically put me into the box that I'm probably stupid or I might be you know not playing a good game, but when you actually unravel it I played equally just as good as game as so many of the players and better than a lot but I was still not good enough and so it was really interesting going funny how you know like with New Zealand how we absolutely played a blind of a game in terms of finding traders.

41:45 And when you compare that to other global formats, I was still hammered for being stupid. And I'm like how funny is that you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. No matter how good you are, it's still never going to be good enough. But I actually loved that lesson as well because I was like I don't care because I know that I played a really good game. especially when you compare it worldwide and some of the records that we got. I know that we were easily scoring the best in the world in terms of strategy and locating traders. So, far out. For little old New Zealand, that's pretty good. Yeah, all six traders, I think you guys will voted out, you know? And I don't think any other franchise has been able to do that. I think I forgot which one, but I know that one season, like there's only one other season where the faithful was have actually won, whereas all the other ones are traders.

42:43 Yeah, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Like you guys did a fantastic job finding all the traders. Yeah. And that's what it leads me, you know, when the game sort of first started, who are your potential original thoughts on who the traders could have been? like when it first started? Yeah. So, once the traders were selected, like did you have a sort of, you know, a good idea on who they could have been? I Like to be honest, I didn't. Like, you know how some people go, "Oh, immediately I think it's this." But you really can't in that game. You can't. You have to be kind of looking for things or trying to spot things that might have been different or interactions or like feedback from other people. So, for me, I never really went out like guns blazing thinking it was going to be a certain person or I think I wrote down in my diary names, but in a game like this, you kind of have to let it play out a little bit.

43:44 Because I mean, for us to get Lauren on the first like that was out of control. And the only reason that I put Lauren was we had the first day Lauren and I had a little conversation, and she's Lauren is delightful. She is such a nice person. And then the next morning, I only picked up and I feel stink cuz it was my vote was a vibe vote because I didn't know Laura. Okay. Yeah. So it wasn't like evidential or anything like that. It was purely the vibe. And we had a conversation on the couch and I just went I feel like you are different to how we were interacting yesterday. And that was all I had. And then the rest of then I could understand that I could see that the room was kind of going that way and then what solidified it gave me the seal of approval was Sam's speech in that round table saying I know you and there has been a change and I went okay, well, I can see where the room's going.

44:53 I got to go that way. So I mean some of it was I got the vibe, but I mean with Laura and that was like pretty lucky for me because I didn't know Laura and I had the advantage that other people did know her. And yeah. I felt so stink that she was taken so quickly, but as what it is. And then the other ones Who went next? Was that Matt? Yeah, Matt was the next traitor. They got voted Yeah. Yeah. So I think people were kind of vibing on Matt because of his votes, the way that his voting had been. So it was kind of going against the grain which remember like we talk about you kind of got to go with things and so he was the I think probably the way that we perceived his gameplay was he was like I'm not going to go with the with the grain.

45:52 I kind of want to stay out. and we thought that was unusual. Yeah. And yeah, and then Brody was like really sick. I didn't know actually that Brody was thinking potentially it was me, so that was really lucky that Oh. that night. Yeah, that round table was intense because it was between Matt or myself. Yeah. But that round table actually set me up for the rest of the game, I think. Okay. Like cuz kind of throughout the game we sort of saw you were always in like a like a group of people and it was always like Sam, Anna, and Colin, and sort of Brody was attached to that as well. At what point did you guys sort of form your sort of like group or alliance? Was it after the Matt vote or sort of.

46:44 Yeah, so the groups kind of changed. Like I guess the first couple of days I was with Colin, Jazzy, Sam. yeah, and then I think when so Brody and Anna were quite close, and then I think sadly when Brody went, that's when the groups the dynamics changed a little bit again. And I don't know what I think it's just human nature, so I was really drawn to like Justine for example because she's got such a beautiful fun energy about her. And I she kept me like they I was really nervous that the entire show was just going to be me laughing because I was stuck usually between Sam and Justine at breakfast or Colin. Oh. There was just, you know, you don't see a lot of those conversations that is actually going on at breakfast, but the majority of it was like the complaints about how the how the BREAKFAST WAS.

47:43 SO THAT AND THEN A little bit of banter, and then also I was really concerned that all it was going to be was me eating and me laughing the whole entire time cuz I was really truly having a lot of fun as well. Yeah, it was just I guess you kind of are drawn to people that I don't know. I just fell into yeah, that group somehow. Yeah, it was Yeah, but it but it's hard as well cuz when you're a out unknown person, you've got to build that rapport as well naturally as you possibly can and under such weird circumstances as well. Yeah. course we could never converse when there weren't cameras there. So, all of the conversations were almost like unnatural. Oh, okay. You know, so it was like I can't just be like I've got to be really cautious with how I interact with these people.

48:40 Yeah. Yeah. I have to do have a question about the cast. Obviously, you're one of the few normal people to enter the show. Did you recognize any of the comedians or any of the broadcasters that were on the like on the cast with you? Yes. So, when we arrived at the lodge, I immediately recognized Anna and Brody. I think those are the only two people because I hadn't seen like Brooke for example, I hadn't seen him for a while and I think the last time I had any sort of muscle memory with Brooke was he didn't have a beard and so yeah, he was clean shaven. So, I couldn't and he had a hat on the first day. I obviously recognized Justine.

49:30 Didn't know who Sam was. And then even when Paul Henry came out, bless you Paul Henry. I didn't even recognize that it was Paul Henry because I hadn't seen him in such a long time. Yeah. So, when he came out, I was like, oh, who is that? And I couldn't place him. I was like, oh, I don't know who that is. And then I was like, it's Paul Henry. And I was like, who's Paul Henry? Oh, Paul Henry. And that was that was such a buzz because I was like, "Oh my goodness, we haven't seen Paul for such a long time." So, I feel really excited that he's the one that's going to be leading us through this. Yeah. What was your thoughts on Paul Henry as a host? Oh, he was wonderful. And we actually the interactions that we had with Paul was as you saw it. Like, we really didn't see him much. So, we would have breakfast and those breakfast scenes might be like an hour of us actually legitimately eating breakfast and having conversations.

50:26 And then Paul would flinch out flinch in and say, "Hello." Take a picture of a phone off the wall, and then he'd be gone. And we were never allowed to interact with him. So, we weren't able to like have general conversation. It just wasn't it just didn't happen. So, it was actually quite hands-off with the interactions that we had with him. It wasn't until the end actually on that day 10 when I finally got taken out and it's quite savage. Like, you know when you see somebody get banished? Yeah. They legitimately walk out the door, get in a car, and they're out. Like, there's no hugs and kisses goodbye. There's nothing like that. It's like, "It's pull the band-aid off. You're out of the game. See you later." Yeah.

51:18 And it I can't imagine what it would have would have been like going kind of early in the game because then you've got this massive FOMO that you've got no idea what is going to be the out- outcome of the game. whereas with me, you know, I wasn't murdered, so I didn't get to experience what that was like receiving a letter. But with me getting banished right at the very end, it was slightly different because I didn't get put in a car and taken away. yeah. You know, the others wrapped filming maybe an hour or so later. but, it was cool. I had finished doing my conversation with the camera after I got banished. And came out of the room and Paul had obviously finished filming. And he gave me a big cuddle and he was like, "You played so incredibly well." And he goes, "Are you looking forward to going home?" And I said, "Yes, I'm can't wait to go home." And I think he said something like, "Oh, you know, what are you looking forward to the most?" And I said, "Petting my dogs' ears." Because I just miss the dogs so I don't care if it's all that I just want to see the dogs, you know?

52:20 Yeah. I mean, I know that the Hamish is the exact same. He will cut anyone just to pet a dog. He's like, "Nah, move out the way. It's his dog's turn to Yeah, me too, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was cool. I do have a question about breakfast. This is a question from one of our listeners. Was there any classic Kiwi breakfasts on the table? Like your Marmite, your Weet-Bix. Nah, man. Nah. it was it was all kind of like cold ciabatta, butter, floury apples. mind you, the food actually got better the smaller the group became. That's what I acknowledged was that when we started kind of thinning back on the cast, then the food suddenly improved.

53:13 Oh, okay. Yeah, the probably the most savage morning was the morning that Brooke, Anna, and I got kid- kidnapped. And so that was crazy. So that was probably the craziest day for filming for me. Because every morning we would get up, I'd wait around and then have a knock on the door. And then we had to put on these like came out or they're either came out warehouse robes and then be transported around in the vehicles which you couldn't see in. So, nobody knew where anybody was placed. And I went down to the breakfast room and there was a room to the side where you'd get your mic put on and that was kind of like the routine. And I was like, "Oh, I believe I've made another day. I've managed to get through again." And got my mic put on and then they were like, "Julia, come back and get into the car." And I was like I wasn't going into breakfast.

54:12 I was like, "Oh, no. Like, is this it? Have I been I've been murdered or something?" And they're like, "We're just going to put a blindfold on you now." I was like, "What?" What's happening? And then and now with bag and I get carsick like terribly carsick. And so we're in the backseat and nobody none of the crew or anything will talk to you because they just get slightly you'll be like, "How's your day going?" And then they'll be like, "Nothing. Giving you nothing." and then we drove. It felt like an hour and a half 2 hours and I thought this is excessive for a murder like to build up anticipation. Maybe they're doing this deliberately so I'm more emotional when I receive my letter that I've been murdered or something. and then we parked up somewhere. We stopped and one of the crew was like, "Oh, here's your breakfast but you can't take your hood off.

55:08 You have to sit in the backseat of the car like eating under your eating under your I had cold eggs benedict and like in the scrambled Oh. I was like I already feeling ter terrible after being driven around for an hour and a half with a sack over my head to have cold eggs benedict and like wilted spinach and but I ate it. Yeah. Yeah. that was a real that was savage. They didn't really like showcase that, but when we took our hoods off, that was that was like the first time we're like, "What the hell is going on?" Like it was crazy. So, but fun, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was those was just one of my questions.

55:58 I'm glad you answered it. Like, do they just put like a sack over your head and they're like, "All right, come with us. We're going to the to the wharf." But No, it's something like that. So, we got we got lead in with the with the mask and the and I was found it really hard to breathe with it over. So, what I would do is I would like hang my hands on the base of it to create a bit of a gap to breathe. But it was really as you saw it, like what the lengths that they went to really disorientate us and to throw us off was extreme. And I mean, they did they did it so well. Like, yeah, we really had no idea what the hell was going on at any time. And the moment that you thought that you were kind of in a routine or in a rhythm, then it would change. It was like, "Oh, this isn't happening anymore." Yeah.

56:51 Yeah. so, sort of towards the very end, you know, we sort of see it's Brooke, Anna, Sam, and also you've cast your vote for end of the previous round table and it wasn't too happy about that. did you think that Colin was ever potentially a traitor towards the end? Yes, so that was that another frustrating thing about the edit. So, you know where I went to my day spa? Mhm. So, I had to drive back to Auckland for that. So, Oh. Yeah. So, that the lodge was up in up north. It was about an hour and a bit drive. And I had a crew person in the passenger seat and I was driving. And I they were like, "Jury, we want you to because you're by yourself, make sure that you voice your current opinions of what you think is happening." Mhm.

57:53 And that morning after breakfast, I think Brooke was talking about like crypto and I was like, "Oh my gosh, for you to be this level talking about crypto, like I have really underestimated you. Like I'm so sure it's you. 100% sure it's on Brooke." And then it shifted to Colin. So in the car, it's all me going, "It's Brooke and Colin. It's Brooke and Colin. It's Brooke and Colin. How am I going to play this because I somehow have to spotlight Brooke's name. And I feel like potentially they might be coming for me. I really don't know how the votes are going to go. So they didn't show that it was me saying it's Brooke and Colin. It's Brooke and Colin. And I was a little bit disappointed cuz I WAS LIKE, "WHY DIDN'T THEY SHOW THAT?" BUT IT makes sense because it would have built anticipation.

58:46 But I think they showed it once that they were like, "Yes, I said yes, I've got my suspicions on Colin, but it's really hard for me to want to like vote out my friend." And it was. I didn't want to vote out Colin because it at late stage in the game, Colin had saved me numerous times. Oh. So there was like heaps of votes that could have banished me. but he kept me in. Yeah. So I was like, I kind of owe him this one. But I didn't want to turn against him and I knew that it was him. And then I knew that I had to kind of play it like I didn't realize it was him. So at the end when he went I was like, "Okay, you know, time is up." And that was when I voted for Brooke, I was like, "Far out, I'm going to pucker here because he's going to How am I going to get my weasel my way out of this when now it looks like it's me?

59:44 Yeah. Yeah, and I kind of knew. I was like, "Oh, well, I think I think I'm toast here, but maybe I've got an opportunity to talk to Anna and talk to Sam, but I didn't really get that opportunity." Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was really hard. Well, I see not much like strategy talk af- after Colin went? Like, was it just like the show where we went straight to the final four vote with the final four? pretty much went we went straight into I think we finished that scene, had dinner, and then might have talked for I really can't remember, but it was very limited. In fact, I don't even think I got to talk I don't even recall being able to talk to anyone.

1:00:36 I think there might have been a shot where Brooke and Sam were kind of like, "This is how it needs to go. We've got to get rid of Julia." And what I didn't under- I was like, "Oh, come on, Sam. Like, see it see that it's not me, you know?" But I was really hard Brooke played it so incredibly well at the end. He got so close. So, we were all separated we were in like rooms each cuz we weren't allowed to you weren't allowed to talk to each other off camera. Mhm. So, they would they would ban us from talking like it was, you know, not part of the you know, it was against the rules. You weren't allowed to talk. Everything that we had it had to be caught on film. Now, an incident occurred. So, I'm coming for Brooke again because I was like, "Okay, I think they're going to come for me, but I can sit Sam and Anna up to win if I go Brooke and then they're going to go, it's not Julia, it's going to be Brooke." So, I was like, "At least I can kind of inject bitterness.

1:01:40 So, I'm going to go for Brooke again." And Brooke and I were just about to go to film that scene and we were in that pool room and we were being supervised by a member of the crew. And she had a little earpiece in and she stepped out of the room momentarily. And when she stepped out of the room, Brooke goes, "It's not me. It's not me. It's Anna. It's Anna." And he starts doing cuz we would do like sign language, so he's making the A with his fingers and I was like, "A? Like, what do you mean?" And he was like, "No, it's not me. You've got to believe me. Like, we can win this, you know, like, you have to believe me. It's not. It's not me. It's Anna. It's Anna. You know, you were right." And I was like, "What?" And I was so tired by that stage where I was like, "I don't care anymore. Like, and I and it's stink, but I because it was off camera, I genuinely thought it was sincere.

1:02:39 So, I was like, maybe it this is real. And then, you know, cuz you're so paranoid all the time, I was like, maybe I've got that wrong as well. Maybe I've misread it and maybe Anna was going for Colin. Maybe it is Anna, you know, and it's like such a roller coaster and anyway, that's why I ended up going back to Anna again. But yeah, either way I was toast, but I was really worried when I was banished because I could see what Brooke had done. So, he was setting it up again for it to go to Anna next, so I would go and then Sam would go, "Screw you. It is it's Anna cuz Julie's voted for Anna again. Surely it's Anna." And then Brooke would win. Yeah. So, amazing gameplay.

1:03:31 Like Yeah. For example, I just got outplayed. Yeah. Yeah. No, I felt really bad for Brooke in the end, especially when cuz I originally thought that oh, they're not going to save Julie as a traitor or not. So, it's going to be a bit of a big question mark and then they'll decide. But when they said that you know, you're not that you're a faithful and not a traitor, I immediately knew that Brooke was out next. You know, I think he kind of knew too. It's like you know, like there's nothing more I can I can really do. Yeah. It was kind of awful cuz I had to be weirdly the sacrificial lamb for that to happen, you know, like I had to be that had to happen to be like, "Okay, it's him." but I mean, he did the best that he possibly could sitting up there and a vote for me to go, "Oh, it's Anna." to give him the best possible opportunity at winning.

1:04:22 And bless Brooke because he didn't want to keep going. And I know that he had spoken to the producers saying, "This is really hard going on with guys. I don't want to play this game anymore because he knew that you know, people deserved it. You know, like Sam really deserved the win for example because you know, like MS and like got two boys and he ended up using the prize money to convert his garage I think into an office so his boys would have be able to have their own room. And Anna's Oh, awesome. Yeah, and Anna's had really poor vision for a long time and I know that she managed to finally get her laser her eyes lasered. And Oh, that's so cool. Yes. Yeah. Because a lot of people were like, "Oh, Anna's doing this like stare." But it's purely She act, just couldn't see. Oh, wow.

1:05:12 Her steering like that at the round table was a legitimate sight issue from what I understand. And I mean she I mean I was so stoked for them to take it out. I was gutted because I was like I would have really liked to be part of the three and be able to say, "Hey, yeah, I was, you know, the one of the three to win it." But I mean for entertainment purposes and for television, I don't think it could have ended in a more exciting way, I guess. Well, absolutely. You know? Yeah. Especially cuz I feel like you had probably the best traitor at the very end and Brooke and you like the faithful of all faithfuls at the very end and Sam, right? So, yeah, it was a epic an epic final three. Yeah, it really was. and I mean those Yeah, people are like, "Oh, some people I've seen in the comments going, 'Oh, you know, Sam and Anna had a an easy ride.

1:06:08 They never got spotlighted on them.'" But in actual fact, they played a really hard game as well because they didn't have any pressure on them. That put them at risk of being murdered every single night. So, I know that it was really nerve-wracking for Anna and Sam and so it was such a big thing for them to get you know, like the shield and stuff. That was a massive thing because they I had a lot of suspicion. So, I could weirdly sleep comfortably. You know, I just had to think to myself in a banishment, which was the way I wanted to play it. but for them, they were just at risk the whole time because they were so faithful. and still there's no there's no hard or easy way through that game. It's kind of you pick which route you're going to take in terms of how you're going to play it strategically.

1:06:58 And those guys played a beautiful game and absolutely hands down deserve the win. Yeah, I It's so easy for people to sit back and go, "Oh, they should have done this and should have done that." But really, like, it was such an incredible game that they played. Luck, strategy, so many things that come into play with being able to last that long because the odds are not in your favor to last right to the end. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. were there any players in your mind think played a great game or fantastic game but wasn't really shown in the edit as much? Yes. So, I was really gutted that they didn't showcase too much on Vanda.

1:07:52 So, Vanda is a beautiful human being. And they I mean, it was hard for Vanda because she was a normal unknown person. And she was in a in amongst a group of loud people. Like, I'm a loud naturally a loud person. you know, and you've got Brooke and, you know, like, car- really charismatic vocal leading type of people. So, for me, I knew that I just had to shut up. But for Vanda, it was quite hard because a lot of people talked over the top of her when she would have a really valid point. So, for example, like, she called it being Dan. And I think we were doing the barrels and she was like, "I think it's Dan. I think it's Dan, guys." But nobody would listen to her. And so, it was really hard. I tried to orchestrate a number of times to be like, "Guys, just dial it back.

1:08:47 Let Vanda talk." And I think that was probably my biggest disappointment in the game was that Vanda actually flourished beautifully throughout the game. So, she went from trying to find her voice and finally found it and became confident within the game of being able to be like, "No, you guys be quiet and we need to actually talk about this. Stop talking about yourselves and let's actually focus on the strategy of the game." And I saw that as like a change in personality where I was like, "I think she's I think she's being seduced or recruited, whatever." But actually it was Vanda coming out of her shell. And I cried and cried and cried and cried and cried after that banishment because I saw a beautiful change as a traitorous one. And I was like, "Oh, she's a traitor." But it was actually her finally flourishing and coming forward with confidence in herself.

1:09:42 And she was right on the money, man, and they we just shafted her. We were like, "Later, Vanda. You're out of here." I It was brutal and she was right on Dan and they didn't show that. They didn't say like really showcase that, you know, Vanda was like, "I think it's Dan." And I felt like we got our moment, you know, like I got my moment to BE LIKE, "IT'S DAN!" BA. AND I GOT THAT FINAL vote, you know, where everyone was like, "Yay!" but they didn't get that with Vanda and I thought, you know, she was a really good player, but she was in a group of really loud people. Mhm. Yeah, I mean it's just people in general, but she was she was beautiful, a total delight, and she was my little buddy at the end of that barrel challenge when everybody was kind of going for each other's throats.

1:10:33 Vanda and I just sat down and let everybody kind of go for it. Her and I had that I think beautiful connection where we kind of tried to stay out of a lot of the confrontation, I guess. And hilariously that round table, when I rewatched saw it, I was like, "Oh my gosh, it's so funny that happened." Dan being the brilliant human that he is, took that as a opportunity, potentially knowing that Vanda was onto him, and set it up to be like, "Oh, Vanda, I noticed that you weren't engaging with any of the group when we were HAVING A BUNNY." I THINK SHE'S RIGHT, YOU KNOW, like I started going, "You know what? I actually think I think it's Dan, as well, because it was that moment." She brought it up in the car, and then he kind of orchestrated, "Vanda, I think it's you because you weren't engaging with the conversation." And I think actually Vanda may have been the catalyst for us all going for Dan like 2 days later.

1:11:37 Oh, wow. A lot of that wasn't showing, you know. Yeah. So, kudos to Vanda for actually being a secret weapon. Yeah, great job to Vanda. something I do got to bring up. you actually broke Hamish's heart, cuz we watch all the episodes together, but when you pulled up the final vote for Dan, Hamish was torn. He's like, you know, "But Dan's my boy, but I really like Julia, but she just voted Dan out." Like, I know, man. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh? And yeah, I held onto that Dan vote, I think, for a couple of days, because you can't I And it was the vent that barrel challenge that I was like, "Okay, pretty confident it's Dan." And then I'd seen a couple of weird interactions with him and Robbie, as well. And so, I was like, "Okay, I feel like something has happened there." And it was the day that Robbie was recruit seduced or I can't She was recruited, eh?

1:12:38 No. Yeah. She was she seduced? It's Yeah, so she was seduced. palmed, eh? They just said, "Come on in." Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so Yeah, so that day she was I noticed an interaction between those two. But I had to hold on to it and cuz you can't like be like, "Oh, I think it's Justin Case." Yeah. So, I was like, "I've got to wait until other people get the vibe." And then and then we'll go with the vibe. So, I was like, "Okay, cool. We're here. I think we've got the majority vote now. Now it's time to offload him." so, it was Yeah, I mean Who was it between? Was it between him and Vanda. And Vanda. Yeah. And I didn't think that Vanda was a traitor at that stage. I thought maybe she would have been I thought she was seduced or blackmailed or something later down the track.

1:13:35 Yeah. So sad. Yeah, and that was really heartbreaking to see to see Vanda go. Especially like something that I loved is how even though Robbie she really got, you know, the shortest straw in terms of, you know, surviving as a normal, but both you and Vanda. Was there any other normal people on the cast apart from you, Vanda, and Robbie? oh, Chris. Yes, Chris. Oh, Chris. Yeah, but Chris was an incredible player and I was nervous for her because she was vocal. Yeah. I didn't want to say cuz I at that stage I wasn't too sure. I was like, "I'm pretty sure she's a faithful because she is playing quite a hard game." She was She was She played her cards too early, poor Chris. And I think she would have actually done really well in the game. But you she was so nice, so lovely.

1:14:26 And quite up front about asking people questions and I think that kind of like spotlighted her too much that she was front of mind for Dan and Matt at that stage. And Yeah, I wanted to say to her I was like, "Ooh, just be careful. Like, don't put too much heat or light on yourself. You kind of want to be a little bit invisible this early on in the game. Yeah. Yeah, you don't want to be like front of mind. So, it's far out, man. It is such a hard game to play. Like, what do you think your strategy would be? you know, there's a game called Mafia or Werewolf, right? And something about Hamish and I, we first met cuz he coached me in improvised acting and theater sports, and that's how we sort of became friends.

1:15:19 And something we always did is we'll play Mafia Werewolf, but we would have to play as like a character, for example. So, someone could be like Shrek, someone could be like, you know, Barack Obama, for example. Or we'll just do it normally without characters. So, it'd change, you know, quite often. But, I'm a very loud person. I'm a very, you know, I get bored pretty easily. So, sometimes I'll just be like, "You know what? I think it's Julia. I've got no evidence whatsoever, but it's got to be Julia." Do I accuse Julia like Yeah, just follow the Kings Cup. Yeah, it's definitely Julia. I've got nothing to go off, but it's Yeah. Yeah, I think I would probably be more like a Robbie. Just someone who would accidentally stitch myself up, even though I'm not And that was the beautiful thing about Robbie.

1:16:09 And Robbie is a gorgeous human being, and she really did play herself, and you cannot come for her for that. Like, she just played with her heart on her sleeve. She said what she was thinking. And I loved that about Robbie. There was she just went in as herself, and playing a such a psychotic game. I mean, that I mean, that's almost like strangely very brave, because I didn't really play as myself. I played in my opinion I played quite a strategic game where I wouldn't I wasn't kind of categorizing myself and a lot of my friends that were watching it were messaging it going, "What the hell? You're coming across as so serious." Or like, "Where's the jovial part of you?" And I was like, I had to compartmentalize my real self during that game because I was like I actually have to play this tactically and that's how I wanted to play it was as I was like, "I'm not going to actually really genuinely be myself playing this game.

1:17:14 I will be Yeah. someone else. Like I will hone into my old policing self. Yeah. And I actually found that quite hard cuz I wasn't playing my true nature. I was I was genuinely playing a It was like a cuz I we said they didn't show it but I spent the last couple of years I used to like run a lot of police informants. Oh, okay. And so we would have like strategies of and storylines that we would play with informants as well. And so I was like in that mode trying to play it that way where I was like, "This is savage but I have to kind of if I want to do really well on this game I have to compartmentalize all of my feelings and just play this game." And I'd been out of the police for you know like 6 years now so it wasn't my nature to play like that and I found that actually really hard towards the end which is why I think I got quite emotional at the end and I was like, "You know what?

1:18:09 Screw it. I'm going to play with as myself and actually play with some like feelings and integrity rather than like just being savage." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love Robbie. She's such a sweetheart and she really is you know like great mom. Yeah. You know she's Yeah, I was it was sad but it's human nature right? And it's a game that you can't have your feelings hurt. it's really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz Hamish and I, we did a, you know, like a five players would love to see come back for some kind of All Star return player season. And Robbie made both of our lists, you know, she brought you know, she brought so much entertainment, you know, as a faithful. And I feel like even if she was a traitor from the start, I feel like she could do really well, especially cuz she could either play it off on, oh, you know, everyone thought I was the traitor the first time.

1:19:05 This is just how I naturally am. She could easily skate through, you know, so I'd love to see Robbie come back. yeah, I do have some final questions to ask you before we wrap up this interview. Okay, first of all, the cryotherapy chamber that you were in for the final mission, how was that at being -140°? Far out, man. I had like obviously the perceived really easy one from out of everybody. but I didn't enjoy it. I don't know how people can enjoy it. Like -140 is actually very cold. Yeah. But look, it was only temporary. It was 3 minutes. I was like, just handle it. People are doing horrible stuff, and I was so relieved that I wasn't I think for me Colin's one hands down would have been the worst.

1:20:01 And he nailed that, but eating the worms. Yeah, I like I didn't enjoy it. I don't know how people like to do that for therapeutic reasons. It's certainly something I wouldn't do again, but Yeah, I so easy in comparison to everybody else, but I think that actually built the story line and the frustration was it's like, I can't believe it. Julia We far, and we all had to eat eyeballs and certain maggots and cockroach. There was no like I was I was so I was hilariously a little bit disappointed cuz you know I'd seen the BBC final where they had like jet boats and helicopters and I was like hit yeah we're going to do something awesome. Maybe we're going to like bungee jump off the Sky Tower or something.

1:20:52 It was like nah it's just like maggots, cockroaches, and eating hearts and eyeballs which is so hilarious. Yeah that was it was great. it was I did find it quite funny cuz I feel like it was a it was kind of almost like you know you have a snowball coming down a hill and it starts off small and it gets bigger like they started off with you in the cryotherapy like oh okay that's not as bad. Monkey cut oh okay tattoo oh okay and then it's heart Brooke has to be in a bathtub of maggots and cockroaches. honestly it was like Brooke I felt so bad for Brooke. Just cuz it was I was just bent over laughing. It was so it was so funny but so awful for him at the same time. I found it really funny when cuz obviously only four people could do it you know someone had to sit out and everyone was like oh Sam's not going to get the haircut and Anna's not going to get a tattoo.

1:21:51 Like poor Brooke like no one's expecting him to not do it. I think we all came to the conclusion that Anna wouldn't do it because it was the only thing that wasn't permanent that was permanent. So I was trying to work it out like from a pattern if you think about like what are those silly tests where it's like square what are they called like the psychometric testing kind of stuff. And yeah the algorithms I was like okay well temporary permanent and surely she's not going to get a tattoo. But I you know she would have and it absolutely would have done it if it was, you know, Colin or I getting a haircut or Yeah, or if it was you know, me having to eat something. I Anna, do not think that Anna wouldn't have done it cuz she would have if the setup was slightly different.

1:22:47 Oh, okay. Oh, she 100% would have done Yeah. Yeah. I'll get you to rank what would you have most likely done? One being the one that you definitely would have done and five being what you would not have done. So, the cryotherapy, if you had to choose between them like cryotherapy being in a bathtub of maggots, cockroaches, eating tongue and heart, tattoo or haircut. Okay, definitely like cryo would be easy obviously, so that would be number one. Two, I would do maggots. Really? Yeah. Yeah, wow. Like you're all good with cockroaches and maggots? I'm not all good with them, but I would have done it next. three tattoo.

1:23:40 Four haircut, five eating. Fair enough. Fair enough. It's Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think that the haircut isn't that bad. Like it would it would look weird for a while, but then eventually it will It would cut It would cut back. Yeah. I think I just don't think I could have managed what Colin did. Like I felt I felt it was really hard to even for me to watch that. And the fact that he just sat there with a glass of wine staring down the barrel of the camera Yeah. so eloquently and I mean Colin is the most beautiful human inside and out and the way that he was and showed himself on the show, he was just so brilliant and so fast. But Colin, on a personal level, is he genuinely has the biggest heart that bleeds for his friends and his loved ones.

1:24:38 And Yeah. I mean, Colin has done the most beautiful gestures for me coming out of the show being like a normal person. Everybody has, but Colin especially, he's one of those people that in a room full of opportunities, he speaks your name to help you come forward. And there was lots of like other, you know, opportunities in terms of television or interviews that Colin being Colin, a lot of media would want to talk to him and be like, "Hey Colin, we want to talk to you. Would you be a guest on this and stuff?" And he's like, "No, but Julia will." You know, and so he really he's that kind of person who sets you up for success. And he has spent so much of his own time, you know, encouraging me and supporting me and did had a beautiful gesture for even like my mom and my family at our final cast showing at the at the theaters, he him and his beautiful friend Angelique put like a gift bag together of like beautiful health products and beauty products for my mom cuz I brought my parents along with me cuz I'm very close with my parents.

1:25:45 And, you know, to think about that and that wasn't to get kudos. He genuinely wanted to do that for my mom. Yeah. You know, like he's just he's just gorgeous. And I and I love Colin because he stands for what he believes and he really appreciates his value as a person. And he played that game. He knew he knew that people were going to come for him. And that challenge, that eating challenge, that's why he nailed that with such beauty and grace. Just like And yeah, he was he's a beautiful person. Yeah, he truly is. Yeah, out of everyone on the cast, I've actually met Colin before. in 2020, he did a lecture for us cuz I went to a film school and he gave us a lecture on acting and presenting and stuff.

1:26:35 And I was always thinking, wow, he's such a great guy. I actually have the photo we took together on my wardrobe door right now, like in front of my bed. And when I was watching the first episode of Traitors, I was like, Hang on, that's Colin. THAT'S COLIN. I WAS REALLY QUITE I was a little bit starstruck when I realized who it was because again, like with Colin, I hadn't he had the beard, you know, the same thing with Brooke. I didn't actually recognize him straight away. And then I was a little bit like flustered meeting him because, you know, when you meet someone that you've seen on television or in magazines and stuff before, I was a little bit like, oh I WAS ACTUALLY QUITE NERVOUS. SO, YEAH. to discover, you know, as the game went on, how just how much of a beautiful person he was.

1:27:26 I and so funny, so cheeky and fast on his feet and funny. He just made like and Justine and Sam like made the game so enjoyable for me, you know, to play because they're just such great people. Like far it's so hard cuz you want to be like, oh, they're so amazing and they're so amazing and Ed is so amazing and Yeah. even Anna and I have been out to lunch together. and my mom came along and you know, just all such cool people. Far out, so lucky. So lucky, so well casted. Just love everyone that has been, like I said, the greatest thing coming out of the game is, although we've all got PTSD from playing this bloody treacherous game, it was the friendships that we've all managed to form and yeah, it's cool and I'm so relieved that I did it because they really did show us cast us in so well and I'm really thankful to like Shustee and the team at South Pacific Pictures for putting together such a beautiful show because it's not just great gameplay which was natural but the way that they shot it and produced it and it is beautiful filming, you know, Yeah.

1:28:40 Yeah, it was awesome. I feel so privileged to have been asked to take part, truly. So. Well, that is one of my next questions. if there was ever some kind of all star or returning player themed to Traders, would you come back to play again? I'm on the fence because I felt like I played really well and I would hate to blow it. If I, you know, if I came back for another season, I felt like I played pretty well and I would be nervous playing a game. Like if I if I got too confident or something and then did like another season and then blew out and then everyone would be like, "See, she was hopeless." So, I would be I would be nervous to do another one but at the same time I would be excited to come back and give it another crack to see if I could take it out cuz I got so close.

1:29:40 Maybe. Yeah, I think I think I probably would and I've actually already Oh, I hope she won't mind me saying this. So, a lot of us talk already talk like a lot of the cast from like Australian season 2. We've been talking a lot of Yeah, it's really quite cool cuz and same thing with the UK like I talked a to spoken a lot to Maddie and Kieran from the UK version and stuff. It's, when you're on the show, it's kind of like the international formats and cast reach out and are like, "Are you okay coming out of the show?" And it's actually quite beautiful that like, I know a lot of us had a really hard time coming out of it. Are you all right? And, which is gorgeous. And, Camille, who was in the Australian season 2, her and I have communicated quite a lot and I think have connected quite well because we had similar backgrounds, you know, like she was a federal agent and my background's policing and stuff.

1:30:40 And we played a similar game. Yeah. in terms of how we were mindset-wise going into it. And so, Camille reached out to me last week and she said, "This might be crazy, but would you consider doing, applying for The Amazing Race and doing it together?" Oh my god. I WAS LIKE, "WOAH, THAT is crazy, but I'm kind of keen." And I had never seen The Amazing Race before, but I watched some YouTube's and the only thing that's made me go, "Oh, maybe not." is because they do eating challenges on it. Oh, yeah. And I told you about it. I was like, "Ah, I don't think I could do it." yeah, maybe. Maybe. Okay. So, the fact that I've already been propositioned for that and that would be pretty awesome to play with Camille because she's amazing.

1:31:36 And it's such a mic drop play for, her game, for season 2. Oh, yeah. I loved Camille's. She was outrageous, hey? Yeah, she was awesome. Yeah. I feel like kind of after, you know, I guess spoilers for Traitors Australia, if you haven't seen that, you know, just fast forward maybe, a few seconds or a minute, but once sort of Luke and Annabelle left, I kind of felt like okay, this is Sam's game. He's going to take all the way to the end like sort of done. But then when Camille was finally recruited, I was like yes, like finally someone who could potentially oppose Sam. Like I love Sam and I love Camille, but I was so excited that like there's finally a opposing force. Yes. Almost, yeah. And that twist. And you know, like I messaged her when they did their No, they up and down challenge that they did and that Roger would like present them with like a beer and stuff.

1:32:32 Yeah. And I think she was the only person that declined a key to the armory and all of the offers that he had. Yeah. And I just went holy molly, she this Camille is playing with such integrity and team gameplay, you know, kind of like no man left behind. I'm doing this for the sake of the game so everybody takes, you know, can be successful. Whoever takes it out and that's kind of like how I wanted to play as well. I wanted to give my all to make sure that whoever did take it out was the most successful and deserved the win. and I loved her mindset and how she played with her heart that way. It was like the right thing to do. And then so when that happened with the final I was I was so pleased because she had figured it out that they had identified her that she was an integrity type player.

1:33:28 Yeah. You know, played with her heart, doing the right thing and that she was probably going to share. So the fact that she knew had figured that out days prior and they were going to get to this point. Yeah, it was awesome. Crazy man. Yeah, it was awesome. it's hilarious because our kitty was so small in comparison. But I loved some of the memes that I'd seen that like, you know, New Zealand Sam, both New Zealand Sams ended up coming away with more money than Yeah, the Australian Sam. Terrible, but like very funny, you know. And for such for such a budget. I wonder what they do with the money, you know? Reinvest it into the next season, maybe. Season 3, yeah. It's an easy prize fund for season 3.

1:34:21 I did actually completely forget but I completely forgot to ask you this question. Were you thinking of gapping it for the 10K at the start? No, never. No, never. Nah. I was there purely for the experience. So, that the money for me, it whilst it would have been wonderful, I never went into the game for the money. I went in purely to play and I think the cool thing was is that a lot of us did go in there purely to play, so it was and because the kitty was small in terms of like, you know, other reality series, I think that's why maybe our game was good was because we weren't like focused on the on the prize money. It was focused on actually playing it and strategy and all of the cool stuff that went with it.

1:35:13 So, potentially maybe that was why we did well because we didn't have distractions in terms of monetary drivers, I guess. But yeah, no, it never crossed my mind. I think talking to Sam cuz we'd never met, we didn't get to interact with him. So, when we did finally actually meet him just prior to the show airing, I think for Sam, there might have been a little bit of like, "Ah, I wish I'd played, you know?" Yeah. But at the same time, Sam did a really cool strategic game play, you know? He said, you know, he's on minimum wage, it makes sense, Mhm. from a smart play, but it's well, there's two sacrifices there. It's smart taking the 10k exiting, but also the opportunity that you miss out on the fun of playing.

1:36:09 Well, according to Hamish and I's strategic breakdown, that was the smartest move of the whole game. Yeah. For money, absolutely. For money, yeah. It's crazy. That was That was wild. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was thinking, nah, no one's going to go for this twist. It's like a big sort of opening dramatic moment, but no one's going to go for it. But then Sam was running, I was like, oh my gosh, what a mad lad. Like what a mad lad. Yeah. And do you know what's wild? Sam told us that I was like, what happened to you after that? And so he ran for the money, he got in the car, like all of our bags and stuff were still in the back of those cars. Like we had not unpacked. We'd literally just arrived and started filming. And he said that he got back in the car and had his bags, and they were like, your flight is booked for Christchurch in 2 and 1/2 hours.

1:37:03 So he Wow. went back in the car and was driven to the airport and was on a flight. Wow, just like that. That was That was Yeah, THAT'S CRAZY. LIKE THE AMOUNT OF Like they must have like, you know, like thought that, okay, depending on who starts running, yep. Quickly grab their flight card. Right. Like so crazy. And people kind of think, oh, you have this like debrief or something, but there's none of that. It was so savage. It was just like, you're murdered, you're banished, you go. And yeah. Walk out, that's it. You're gone. brutal. Very brutal, very brutal. Yeah. I do just want to highlight one last thing. while you didn't make the smartest move of the game, you definitely did make one of our smartest moves of the week.

1:37:59 Which was in week two. I think it was when Matt got eliminated or it was when Mike got eliminated like just before the vote. Like some people were discussing like, "Oh, why are you a faithful? Why are you a faithful?" And I believe you said the words "If you vote for me, you'll look like a fool afterwards." Or something Or something along those lines. Yeah. Yeah. And do you know what's really funny about that? Is that I had relentless mic problems. So cuz I'm a sloucher, terrible. Yeah. I would sloutch at the round table and the sound people would be like, "Julia, do not sloutch because we can't hear you." And so I was like, "Okay." So I was trying to like sit back in my chair. And when somebody came for me, and I think it was between Matt and I think you're right.

1:38:51 And they were it was really tight and then they were like, "Okay, over to you, Julia, defend yourself." Yeah. And I went, "Well." And I was just about to take off. AND THEN THEY'RE LIKE, "HOLD!" "JULIA, YOUR MIC'S FAILED." So I was like maybe a few words in and then my mic cut out. And then I had to get up and leave the round table and they had to do the adjustments. And then sit back down. And you know when you're kind of like on a roll and you're like, "Okay, I'm going to say this next." Whatever. I got like rudely interrupted with my mic cutting out. And then I And then I was kind of like, "Oh, I've lost I've lost I've lost the momentum." Whatever I was going to say. And then sat down. I think there's a bit where you can see me saying, "Oh, sorry, guys." And I wasn't apologizing to the group for like them coming for me. It was actually the fact that I disrupted the round table and I was apologizing sitting back in my seat saying, "Oh, sorry about it, guys, for the disruption." but yeah, fire out, man.

1:39:45 Like, you have to really think on your feet when the fuel is being pulled on the fire poured on the fire. And you're trying to come up with anything that you can possibly say to prove that you are faithful, but it's incredibly hard. because you have to be so specific because whatever you say there can come up in conversation 2 3 4 to 5 days later. So, it's like I have to be so precise with how I come up with my response. And like you say, remember you guys were like, "Oh, it's hilarious. I watched your podcast about with how Robbie's wording on day two ended up being King's demise on day nine." And it's so true because that's what I mean. It's like something that happened days ago, and it did grip me to a degree, and I know that a lot of people disagree with this gameplay, but people are like, "It's a fresh day.

1:40:41 You have to start fresh. Every day is a new day." And I was like, "Well, no, it isn't. Every day is not a new day. You have to actually take into consideration, in my mind, every single thing that has happened from the moment that we started playing." Yeah. because it's all relevant. That was my policing mindset was evidential based. Everything is relevant. Everything that people have said at the round table, take that into consideration. The way that people vote, take that into consideration. yeah, so crazy, yeah, like that 8 days later, whammy. Yeah, and one of my personal favorite moments of the whole season was when, you know, like Kimberly, you know, right at the start, she was using psychic abilities. She predicted that Robbie would be a traitor. Yes, she did.

1:41:32 And you know, in that moment she was wrong, but technically she was right cuz it was a lie, and she wasn't a traitor. I know and everybody came for her cuz you know how people go "Oh, psychics." Kimberley is such another beautiful, amazing human and she technically she got it right, you know, she was like "Something's not sitting right there." for later on down the track. And yeah, crazy. But that I guess it was a very smart play for traders to get rid of her early on because it's like any sort of influence or potential for somebody to say something about them. You know, you've got to cut that off really early. Yeah. So yeah, smart play. Very smart. Yeah, that was that was very smart and made I think our third week smartest move of the week and even then I had to like really cook like cook my brain and be like okay, how am I going to word this so I actually it comes across as a move.

1:42:32 But yeah, not one of my favorite moments on Yeah. Oh, it was so fun to play and I and I hope I think that there's a there's a card game version of traders that somebody's that I think the franchise has come up with so Okay. order it internationally and recreate it in the in the home which is pretty cool. Oh, yeah, that'd be so sick too. Like especially with like your family members, people who you've known like your whole life. Like yeah. Yeah. Cuz my face doesn't lie especially my eyes. So it's like if I'm up to the very mischievous like you'll see my smile, you'll see my eyes sort of like sparkling. So everyone would be able to catch on to me. Like that's right away. Yeah, it's so hard to it's amazing experience. I'm so thankful that you guys were deep diving into it and enjoying discussing what you perceived from the outside of how it was being played out and it was really joyous and fun for us to listen to because you know we were in it.

1:43:40 Yeah and we loved it. We loved We just why no I certainly loved and joy and definitely out of all the podcasts to listen to it was the most positive and fun and enjoyable to listen to out of out of all of them. Oh thanks so much. It was Yeah. It's actually my first time hosting a podcast actually. Yeah cuz I've just been a co-host with you know Chris and Kahuna for the shows and normally with that like I don't have to write any notes. I can sit back kick back relax let them you know ask all the questions and I just bring in some randomness but you know I've even got a book here and it's got a bunch of questions I was going to ask you but I didn't even look at it once during the conversation so I was Yes being the whole way. She's awesome. Yeah but thank you though. Thank you cuz normally when we're when I'm talking with Hamish to driving I'm always going aha next page aha next page.

1:44:32 Yeah. Next page yeah. No but thank you so much Julia for coming on. I really loved hearing more about your game and some things that wouldn't quite see some of your early thoughts and where can people find you on social media and if you want to come on the show again on Instagram so just under Julia Barry on Instagram and weirdly I have a an okay LinkedIn following. It's actually that's my busiest social channel which is Ah. The crazy LinkedIn. Which is where I got approached for the show so probably because that is where I run my normal business you know like my normal day-to-day life is from there. But yeah just on Instagram I'm Julia Barry or Julia Barry on LinkedIn and that's where I'm at. I don't really use Twitter.

1:45:23 I don't understand how TikTok works. not cool enough or something. I just I tried and then I went it's just too hard. So, yeah, managing all those the social media stuff is actually quite hard when you're running a business and you've got young kids and Yeah, absolutely. Like I mean I'm you know, I'm working on a podcaster and you know, I've got no kids. Even then I find Twitter confusing. So, Yeah. And I'm always consciously aware of like what I post like trying to not look like a dick or sound like a dick or I don't know. So, everybody's like coming for you all the time. So, Yeah, no, but I'm so thankful that you asked and so grateful that you've asked me as well.

1:46:14 It's very nice. Thank you. It's been so lovely having you, Julia. And to everyone here that's new to the channel, please consider hitting the subscribe button. We have just reached over 2,000 subscribers. We hit our goal. Yeah, we were expecting it for maybe December, but it came much earlier in September. So, we're really chuffed, really pleased. I know that Chris has got something very special planned up for the future for Australian Survivor, The Challenge, and other shows coming up as well. So, if you're interested in that content, please hit the subscribe. If you liked our deep dive with Julia, please give it a solid like and maybe we'll bring on more players from Traitors New Zealand to deep dive into their games. But for now, thank you so much, Julia, for coming along. And until next time, we'll catch you later. Bye. See you.

1:47:05 Thanks for having me.