Survivor 50 | Episode 7 | Recap

0:01 [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Okay, we're live. couple of technical glitches as we've tried to go live here today, but Andrew, we finally made it onto the show and we're here to talk about episode 74 Survivor 50.

1:00 How are you doing? It's been a week since we last talked. Are you good? I realized I was muted. So, yeah, I was saying that yeah, the week has been really good. but you know, we slay dragons during the podcast, not during the week, right? Exactly. Exactly. what a what a absolute legendary moment. we'll probably get into it later on, but I believe that was probably the quote of the week or the saying of the week and I had to give Rizz a points for that on our draft as well. him sitting down a guy who's played the game for nearly two decades and telling him how to play Survivor was hilarious to see.

1:50 Yeah, how old was Rizz when Tocantins aired? Like four? Probably. Probably something like that. what a week. Did you enjoy the episode this week Andre? Like how are you on this episode? If you had to like rate this episode compared to what we've seen so far this season, where would you put it? I'll say it's a middle of the road to maybe sort of top of the bottom of the top tier for sure. I think that it retroactively makes the blood room a little bit better because you see that there's a lot of chaos that happens and then all of a sudden it was a decent like Survivor episode. It was pretty like for me it was really easy to see what was going to happen once you got to tribal and so you saw D stand up and be like, yeah, we've been hoodwinked by the by the edit. But I thought it was pretty solid episode. Like this is true Survivor. This is what we came to see.

2:40 There wasn't much bull crap. There was just good Survivor, no crazy twists, which is what we want. And I think next week's going to be a lot of crazy twists, so I'm just enjoying it while it lasts. Yeah. I think for me it felt like one of the more straightforward sort of episodes, which I know we've been shouting for. We didn't want chaos or anything like that. And it was very straightforward Survivor. I knew who was going to go home. I felt disappointed in the strategy this episode. I felt and I guess we'll talk about that. It seemed like D was the easiest and obvious vote to get her out here, but that certain players maybe had a bigger move to make this episode that would have furthered them in the game later on and they didn't actually go for the killer shot here. And you know that in Survivor it's kill or be killed. So is this going to be the reason that some people potentially don't win the game?

3:31 That a few people potentially lose the game here or is it just too early for me to make that call with 13 players still left in the game? I'm fearful of there is these two factions that are starting to form and then there is quote unquote the middle people as coach sort of mentioned and where will the middle people end up where they could have potentially looked at D as a potential number. She no way to go and I just felt like there was there was probably more moves that could have been made here but I also understand that in an hour and a half or whatever of screen time we had for this episode, they probably can't show all the conversations that are being had and I'm sure a lot of these players had conversations with D to try and see if there's something that they could do there if there was an angle that they could work but ultimately decided that it wasn't the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I did want to talk about you mentioned that we had a very straightforward episode not too much shenanigans but we did have one boat ride and to show how bad Jeff's ideas is with new era Survivor because this is a new era twist obviously to go on the boat ride.

4:29 No one wanted to go on this boat ride. I mean it's supposed to be this thing hey you get on the boat ride you can potentially change your game you can get an advantage you should risk it always but these experienced players people who actually understand how detrimental to your game it can be when you lose your vote you lose your shot in the dark. We saw that happen to Colby. Nobody wanted to get in it. Like how big of a fail is this boat journey really in the new era of Survivor and is it just something that we should now sunset because in my mind it's just horrible and I don't know why we're still doing this. Yeah it's not it's a waste of time. There was probably a lot more conversation we could have seen back at camp. I thought it was actually kind of cool that the person that was unlucky enough to go was Steph who specifically had the story of her screwing up her shoulder in Heroes vs. Villains so we got to see that. So that was fun. That was quite fun.

5:20 I think I think I think the production was like let's do this challenge because there was so many historical challenges in the past that we can show clips of. I think that was what they wanted that were that were trying to achieve there. I think they achieved that but I feel like if you're Steph what would you even do? Like I was thinking probably in this day and age where everybody knows what's going to happen. Cirie saw her through her bull >> I bet you everybody did. Everybody did and it's like is the best play just to say look, I want advantages to steal a vote. I'm going to use it tonight. I'm going to this is exactly how I'm going to use it. And then use it that night and be like look, you know, it's Scott it's you know, Aubry Scotland letter. It is what it is. If you lose your vote, you lose your vote. You're probably get screwed. But you don't you don't really want to go, right? Nobody ever wants to go in the chance that they lose. But if you're Stephanie, you just probably just tell the truth and just use it and like everybody's going to know that Stephanie has an advantage.

6:13 They're not going to know what the advantage is except for I guess the rate and Rizo. so it's kind of like what do you even do in that situation if you're Stephanie? >> Yeah, it's a difficult situation to be in and that's why I don't like these manufactured moments on the show where you are forced to go on the boat. You are forced to go and play for an advantage. Old school Survivor where you had to go out and look for advantages and clues and things like that was much more exciting to me. I like seeing scavenger hunts. I love [clears throat] seeing somebody get across an advantage that will clue to an advantage. They see it and they're like oh, I have to go do X, Y, and Z to get this and I have to earn it that way. It's much more exciting. There's a bigger chance for it to be covert. And I think another thing that we can well and truly say at this stage in the game now is that the Billie Eilish idol has been an absolute fail this season because, you know, there's always more than one person who knows about the idol, which means that it's not a secret. Like anybody who came into this game like even Rizo thinking that his idol would be a secret for very long in the game is delusional about it because, you know, somebody gave him that idol and that person hasn't told him that Like I would be nervous if I was Rizo.

7:16 If I didn't know who gave me the idol and I knew that there was somebody out there who knew that I've got the idol. I would know that I'm probably a target to that person, right? Cuz why else would they keep it a secret? So for me, I just feel like the whole mechanics of share everything that you've got all the time. Yes, it creates for chaotic, messy gameplay, but it doesn't create for great gameplay. Like I mean, Survivor 101 is you find an advantage, you find an idol, you keep that a secret to yourself, really, in my mind, in any case. I don't think I would ever and it's hard because if I ever did play the game, I'm sure people would say, "Look at it, Chris is actually telling people about the idol." Cuz maybe there will be a situation where you need to garner trust and something you're playing on the back foot, but it just feels like we're forcing and we're manufacturing these moments where everybody knows who's got what. So, there is no point, to come back to your original question, to keep it a secret from the rest of the tribe.

8:06 You may as well just tell them, "I found an I found an advantage." this is what it is. I'm going to play it." And if people start doing that, Andre, my question to you is, would that finally break the new era cycle of twists that Jeff introduces into the game? Because it's kind of kind of mute if people are just going to start playing it, similar to how Aubry was forced to just play an idol this episode. Yeah, I think Jeff actually historically, as much as much we pile on him, he does sort of he does bring some stuff like see he does sunset things. Like, people didn't really like the Edge, so they we haven't seen the Edge in the new season. Same thing with the Redemption Island, they brought it back specifically just for one season, which is, you know, Blood vs. Water, where it actually works. So, you know, fire tokens was another one. I You know, I've got hot takes. I think fire tokens was a good twist.

8:58 I think that the Billie Eilish Billie Eilish idol, I think was a good twist, too. It just didn't work out this time, and I'll give you my reasoning why. I think that it adds something extra to the game or something different just for this season. I don't I'm not saying it needs to be in next season, but for this season, I think it was a good it like I don't want to be results-orientated where it oh, it didn't work out this time. I think there's a little bit more intrigue where the like in theory, if Rizo didn't tell anybody about his idol, nobody would know about his idol. Like, no one would know. he doesn't know that, of course, but that adds a little bit of intrigue. And it's a bit of a shame that sort of the idea has sort of just collapsed on itself because Genevieve was basically screwed by another twist. I think the problem was the blood moon twist, not the Billie Eilish twist, right? so I think that, you know, I wouldn't mind seeing maybe both of them at the same time. Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing yeah, I wouldn't mind the thing coming back every so often. It's like I don't know if this like if you receive an idol I like make it a little bit unclear.

9:59 Make it so the players have to dig and see if anybody's going to tell them if they get got an idol and if anybody knows about it. I think it's okay. but I think it's been a bust this season, unfortunately. It's kind of like the one world twist. Let me let me tell you why I don't like it. And again, maybe I see a world with the Billie Eilish and I just want to say hello to Georgette. Georgette, welcome to the live. we've just been going back and forth here without acknowledging that you're here. Please let us know what you thought of the episode. Do you like, Georgette, the Billie Eilish idol? Is it a yay or nay for you in regards to using it moving forward? what I wanted to say about it is that maybe there is a place for the Billie Eilish type of idol in the future, but it becomes one of those idols that there's one of them in a season. So that one person can target someone else in the season, but the rest of the idols are still normal because I feel like some of the best moments that we ever had in Survivor history was Russell Hantz playing an idol when nobody expected him to have one, right?

10:54 Or and negating all the votes. Kelly Wentworth playing an idol in Second Chances to change the vote because no one knew that she had one. And I feel like it's taking away from those big idol plays that are actually explosive and exciting when people get blindsided at Tribal Council where everybody just now knows, well, Aubry's got an idol, we know Rizo's got one. we know that who's the other person that's got one? Rizo. Rizo and Was it an Rizo and Aubry and them? Yeah. So we know that they've got idols. We know Aubry and Rizo at some stage will have to play it. I just feel like it takes the intrigue a little bit out off the game for me personally. Georgette is not a fan of it either. And again, like I said, maybe one so that there is still some idols in play that you don't know about and maybe to make it fair, each beach has got a proper idol and then there's one that you go to an island to and you can go and play it in some ways cuz there's also a depowered idol, Andrea.

11:50 I don't like the fact that they can't play it for other people until the final five cuz again it takes away from the strategy if your alliances are in the down and you have a potential to take a risk and play the idol for one of your alliance members to keep them in the game. You don't even have that option at the moment to play. So, I don't know how far we want to go down the game mechanics. I can see a world where plays, I can see a world where it doesn't play. For me it's kind of like, I don't know. I'm not a fan of this stage, Andrea. I don't know if you want it to come back on the next episode. If you think about it, winning the immunity necklace is actually more powerful than the Billie Eilish idol. Mhm. Because you can if you win So, imagine a situation where Ozzy wins immunity, right? Like with the fake one? Exactly. And then he realizes, "Oh, Cirie's in trouble." So, what you do is you give the immunity necklace to Cirie and then you play the idol on yourself. So, there are ways around it. Yeah, it's very specific.

12:40 But I don't know if you noticed this, but in the previously on Survivor, they really focused on, Devon and Christian planting the fake idol. I did. >> And they wouldn't have brought I was like, "Why are they bringing this up?" I thought it was going to happen sort of this episode. But then if you think about it, Aubry played her idol. Meaning there's a new idol out in out in public. So, now it's more believable if Rick finds the immunity idol next episode or something. It's too much foreshadowing. It's like Chekhov's idol there. Yeah. Yeah, definitely something's going to happen there. and I'm excited to see how it's going to play out. I did want to ask you while we're on the subject of talking about idols. I don't know how many people we've lost in the podcast because of it. Hopefully most people are really interested in knowing all about the idols cuz there was big character moments that I want to get into. how did you feel about the fact that Aubry was the only one forced to play her idol in this moment?

13:35 And did Aubry make the right decision by playing it? Should she have played it? Should she have kept it? Should she have maybe leaned on the fact that, "Hey, we know these two other people who've got idols as well. Why am I being singled out here?" Yeah, so my partner was like she was standing up saying Aubry is so stupid. I thought it's I not the worst move in the world in my opinion because it's like it's the thing where you kind of want to depower yourself in a way to manage your threat level. I see it's very 50/50. So for me, I actually think it's like good Aubry removes that sort of scarlet letter on her. I think she's correct in that in that decision. And I think obviously it's a final 14. You need to be making like an idol's not going to take you that far unless you're like Rizo or something. But the reason the difference with Aubry and Rizo this season is Rizo has a really good social game. Doesn't seem like Aubry's playing the best social game right now. So it's like if you don't have a good social game, you get rid of the scarlet letter and you try to develop those social bonds until maybe the final, you know, if you had like an idol at final She's not going to have an idol at final six, right?

14:35 So it's kind of useless for her. If they got If they want to vote her off, they're going to just pile They're going to split votes on her and then get her off next week. So it's useless for her. Build those bonds now. I think it wasn't a bad move. If anything, I think Aubry coming back season after season, like I was one of those people who were shouting from the rooftops that Aubry should have won her original season and I still believe she played strategically one of the best games, if not the best game that season. but I think that every time she comes back, to your point, she's showing that she's not a great social player really and she's a bit socially awkward. And that it's now more clear than ever why she didn't win that season cuz people ultimately vote for people they like at the end who or who they had a connection with. And I think that's another reason why I'm kind of fearful for Aubry because I just don't see who out there is going to go to bat for Aubry now that she doesn't have an idol. I think she's not the next person that's going to get targeted.

15:27 I think Tiff is probably at the bottom of the barrel if they're just going to go for the easy votes at this stage, which it kind of looks like people want to play that easy game as long as they don't rock the boat, they're not going to be the one that gets targeted next, and I think that's why they just let coach decide to a large Yeah. percentage or large portion of this game who was going to go home cuz Christian wasn't going to rock the boat at this stage. Devens wasn't going to They wanted to. Emily really wanted to, but What was really interesting though was that it was I found it fascinating that Christian and Devens both powered on Aubry. They're like, "Oh, we would have just go got rid of her if we knew this was going to happen." And it's like that shocked me a little bit because what they showed last episode was Oh, these guys are pretty close, you know, they she got the idol. They're good threesome. Doesn't seem like they are. Seems like they were just using Aubry for the vote and they're just like they're ready to Which I like for my boys, Devens and Christian, I like that cuz I don't I feel like Aubry might be an anchor for their game if they keep her sort of within the three or within the four with Emily.

16:27 But I think if they did get rid of Aubry, that reduces their threat level a little bit. And if they had gotten rid of Aubry last episode, we would have still had Genevieve in the game. We would have had like Christian would have had an idol which no one knew that he had. So, I mean, it's kind of like a win-win there. So, I think they made a wrong move last episode. We'll see how it goes going forward, I guess. Yeah. Delora is saying that she's watching the Artemis astronauts splash down and will be back soon afterwards. I don't blame you for wanting to check that out. That's the first time in so many years that we've gone back to the moon. It's actually quite exciting. Have you been following it, Andre? I have not. I >> [laughter] >> How bad is it? It's so bad. Like it's so I feel like it's so bad. Like we haven't been When's the last time we went to the moon? Was like in the 1960s? Like I can't remember >> Like 70s Apollo I think they were like 20 Apollos or something like that.

17:22 It's been a while. Not that we've ever been to the moon. It's Americans have gone to the moon. So you know we're cheering them on. Yeah. Well they're doing it for humanity. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Christian saying hey what's up? they need to play big moves to win the game. I agree and I think I mentioned that earlier Christian. I feel like the big moves maybe weren't made this week but you know there's 13 people I think left in the game right? So there's plenty of opportunity for them to still impress the jury which D is now going to be a part of. so I wanted to talk about Coach's game is Coach currently sort of kamikazeing his game? Is he blowing it up? What is happening with Coach? Or is he becoming maybe the best goat to take to the end? Like is people going to start looking at Coach and say this guy clearly can't win at the end. The further he gets into the game maybe I get there.

18:14 I'll take the votes against him in the final three. What's your gauge on Coach absolutely sort of having a meltdown this week and I did I very happily accepted those meltdown points on the draft. Is he playing like a Phillip game where he realizes look the chances of me playing like I did in South Pacific or in Tocantins or Heroes vs. Villains this won't get me to the end or like I won't I'll probably get sniped at final eight or something like that. What if I just become the biggest character? And you notice when he's doing his confessionals kind of like a wink to the camera I'm doing I know what I'm doing. I'm the dragon slayer. I'm playing the character now. Is this like go big or go home type of thing where it's like I'm going to be the biggest goat to get to the end and then people aren't going to take me and then I'll be a final three player and then maybe I can correct my mistake from South Pacific and really own my game and just be like I did this on purpose.

19:08 I lied to everybody. I deceived everybody. I took control. You know I played the biggest game that I possibly can. I admit it. I don't care. this is just me. And then maybe that will help because everything he did in South Pacific was the opposite of that. He was like he did play a big good game, but then he was like hiding behind it. If Coach gets to the end and be like honor and integrity face pull, not I I tricked all of you, then I think they would get rid Maybe that's what he's doing or maybe he's just being Coach. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like a lot of what we're seeing from Coach is Tocantins Coach, the original dragon slayer that's come back to our screens and I got flashbacks of that and but also ramped up a little bit. Like I feel like he really ramped it up in this last episode and I don't know how people are going to you know go with having Coach around them. And the biggest problem I would see if I was a player Andre playing the game right now and I had someone like Coach around there is that kind of what Rick Devens said.

20:04 They're all returning players. They're all people who know how to play this game. They all want to play their own game. They don't want to play Coach's game. So even if you do take him to the end as the potential goat or someone that you think that you can beat, you still have to placate to his ego and who he wants to vote out. So I don't know sometimes if it's worth it to have a player with you that is constantly trying to dictate the flow of the strategy and where things are going to go and how long you would want to put up with that. So it's interesting, but it did feel like Coach was protected by people this game that we potentially wouldn't expect. Like you know, if Christian, Emily, and the likes of Rick Devens wanted to go for Coach, you know, and the Cirie, Ozzy's, and the Rizzos of this world jumped in on that, he would have been gone.

20:54 So one of those two factions protected him. I don't believe it's the Rick Devens, Emily, and Christian faction. I believe it's the Cirie faction and Ozzy faction that actually looked out for him this round even though we didn't see it because it looked like two out of the three in that trial between Rick Devens, Emily, and Christian were ready to make the move. So I don't know if Rick alone would have prevented that from happening. He seemed pretty annoyed with Coach as well. What was your read on it? Like, what would what didn't we see out there? And do you think that there's maybe something happening between Coach, and an Ozzy and a Cirie that we're not aware of? Yeah, well, I think I think there have been seeds around that you sort of see you saw like a few off-the-cuff, conversation with Ozzy and, Coach sort of and Ozzy sort of like somehow seems he seems to be the voice of reason here. and obviously Cirie's going to Cirie.

21:44 So, I think that they're secretly in control of the game right now. So, you've got the triumvirate, the What was their name? It was a really good name. the Rizo, Cirie, Ozzy, the Cirie's Rizo of Oz. Cirie's Rizo of Oz, yeah. I think they cuz they've got they've got two idols and a Was it a stealer vote or, an extra vote? An extra vote, right? And then if they want to bring in probably Stephanie would probably want to go ahead with those as well cuz it's kind of like almost, the old school plus Rizo, type of that period. I think they've got four they've got four advantages right now. They're clearly from the shadows kind of dictating everything and they're very happy to have the likes of Jonathan, Coach, not so much Joe. We didn't see much of Joe, but Jonathan and Coach sort of like, you know, really blowing this up and saying, "Look, we can always get rid of these two.

22:39 These two are playing a little bit too basic, right? They're trying to take control and they're trying to pick targets on people and whenever we want we can we can actually just go to the sort of the Emily, Devens, and Christian, trio. And it's if you think about it, if you got those seven, that's essentially like a majority. And they can do whatever the hell they want, right? So, I could probably see this happening where they're like, "Okay, let's just do the easy pickings for now. We're going to get a couple of boring episodes, that's fine. D is an easy target." And you saw and I think they actually and this came out in on Reddit or something that or no, D said this in one of her exit interviews that the editors actually misled us that the argument with the D and Jonathan happened before Tribal Council. I heard that, yeah. Yeah. So, they're obviously trying to paint a narrative there, but that actually is very interesting to see that oh, they were just piling on D.

23:33 And I think that's I think that's the correct move for everybody in the moment. It's obviously statistically going to be bad for somebody. It really depends on which of those sort of factions went out and I think that you're very right that there is sort of the loyalty integrity crew, then you've got like the game board crew, like the Devons and the Christians and the Emilys of the world, then you got the and then I guess they're technically the middle people, and then they're there's the kind of like the Cirie and Ozzy sort of faction as well. and then there's kind of like Yeah, the whole middle people comment is another reason which thinks Cirie and Ozzy is working with him to a certain degree and also by proxy Rizo, cuz he didn't really mention them as middle people, but the strangest thing of all of that was how he misread Rick being one of the middle people, which, you know, Rizo pointed out to him, "You're saying to Rick, we need to get rid of the middle people when Rick is a middle person." So, it's just very interesting the dynamic and I feel like there's a lot we are not seeing.

24:31 I just want to read a couple of comments here. Lexi is saying Coach really damaged his game this episode. He actually looked crazy, but as someone who enjoys watching the chaos, it was good fun Coach episode, but he's nuts. I totally agree. I was here for it. I absolutely loved it. Dolores says, "Andre and Chris, I live in the Space Coast District in Florida, so my small town is on hold, but I still want my Survivor. Coach, this week's edit was so different than the previous week. Totally, he completely turned it. This edit is telling me coach last stand is approaching and it could be but it also could be that people think we can take him a little bit deeper into the game. We can we can have someone there that no one's going to take serious to get at the end if he does get there and won't take the vote. But one thing this edit did tell me or one thing that I'm starting to see Andrea is that we've had a big focus on Christian and that alliance for a for a good reason.

25:23 They've always gone to Tribal Council so a lot of the narrative has been told through them but I really think that to your point that you mentioned earlier, the real sort of secret power here is Cirie, Ozzy, and Rizwan and I see a world where this alliance gets to the end and if Cirie, Ozzy, and Rizwan gets to the end, Cirie's winning this thing hands down. Rizwan is playing a phenomenal social game and he's playing a really good strategic game and his I think my view of him as a Survivor player is only increasing episode by episode as I'm seeing him play this season. He wasn't really stress tested as much in his original season but I think he's really coming to you know, they say diamonds are made in the rough. But he's not beating Cirie. He's not taking out the legend who's the best player to never win. So if they take her to the end which maybe Ozzy and Rizwan I hope Rizwan is not foolish enough to do that and I hope he doesn't do it for the fans because the show is in the hands of the fans.

26:21 It would be an appropriate winner if Cirie won but I see this trio getting to the end at the moment. Like we're seeing a lot from them and they seem safe for at least the next couple of episodes. Yeah, well I don't I don't see the trio going to the end. I see a duo going to the end minus Cirie. The only This is why Cirie has had trouble with winning. It's because final four she's going to be making fire every single time. Like who would be foolish enough to take unless it's Ozzy? Like maybe if Ozzy's like Ozzy wins immunity. >> easily win. Ozzy could easily win the final immunity. But if you had like a hypothetical let's say the trio and they take Coach along for the final four and Ozzy wins immunity, who does Ozzy take to the final? He The only situation I could see Cirie winning is if Ozzy specifically I can see this happening based on the relationship they're showing on screen cuz they we didn't see that in Game Changers and they had that relationship in Game Changers.

27:15 They're showing it specifically here cuz I think it's going to be a payoff. I think it's going to be get to a stage where Ozzy probably needs to make some sort of decision. Do I take Cirie, my best friend in the game to the end and willingly give up my chance of winning? Or do I go for the kill and bring Coach and Rizo? And it's like I could probably beat If I'm Ozzy, I can probably beat Rizo. I can probably beat Coach, right? So it'll be like a Colby situation. Do I do I take Tina to the end or do I take Keith? And this is a This has been like a storyline since the beginning of Survivor essentially. So I could see that happening. That's the only way that I can see that trio getting to the end. Yeah, Delores saying has Christian had confessionals each episode? I believe he has. and saying Cirie did decent in her fire and A you didn't she? So potentially practice, you know, makes perfect.

28:10 Well, in Australia in Australian Survivor they have the strategy they don't do in American Survivor where they rock the baby and that seems to work every time. So maybe she'll transfer some her findings from Australian Survivor into fire making. I hope that's the case. Like that'll be really cool to see Cirie in another fire making challenge just to have her to finally win. that would be perfect. The true redemption arc if that is the case. so another thing I wanted to talk about here, Andre. We've spoken about this every single week, but is Emily potentially the most dangerous player out there at the moment and not for good reasons. Dangerous in the sense that she's tanking everybody's game and she's letting out on secrets and how are people not annoyed by this at this stage of the game? Clearly D you know, trusted her too much here and gave her too much information and she's the one who ended up telling everybody about Rizo's idol.

29:05 Is this a hot take that maybe Emily makes this the season a little bit more boring? Right? She's giving too much information away and she just makes these >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, I mean she has some good episodes where she's chaotic but over time it just becomes like oh, well D's an obvious target because Emily says so. Emily's too loose with her information. Okay, we'll get to a stage where either like Emily will have to just sort of and we have to remember that Emily was on D's first season and D's first season wasn't exactly Yeah. that's it's just she entrenches majorities is my take. So, you know, she assisted the big alliance D's big alliance and then she's just got unceremoniously cut and I think that if D if Emily does the same thing, she's going to entrench a majority.

29:56 I don't know who the majority is right now but they'll entrench a majority and the majority will just cut Emily and it would just be boring, right? Where we kind of want a little bit more gameplay and we want somebody that will jump around a little bit more. Personally, but yeah, it's like I don't know. It's I would be annoyed with Emily if I was out there. She's 100%. I mean, the question has to be like that meme that I shared with you a week or so ago, who shares information faster, Google or Emily? You know, and I think that it's a true competition between a Google search and Emily. Maybe she's coming for ChatGPT or Claude's job next. >> [laughter] >> but D's elimination, let's talk about it a little bit. Andre, smart move or not? Was this the move to be made here to take out one of the people that aren't could really all that connected and ultimately was the thing that really sunk her game, the fact that she did betray Rizzos trust, and Rizo being close to Ozzy and Cirie, who D also had a relationship with in the game and have worked with before and voted with before, was ultimately the thing that sort of you know, I guess sunk her game in this moment.

31:02 Yeah, I mean I was I was very impressed by D's gameplay up until this episode. In this episode, you just see how messy she was, and I don't know if she was messy because she was trying to throw out Hail Mary's and trying to get as much information cuz she knew she was a target, or she was truly being that sort of messy. So, I think that D played messy, it was her own doing, let's be honest, but she was also a big target. Tiffany's point is a good one where D is always going to be a bigger target than pretty much anyone else in the cast cuz she's the only winner. I get that, but come on, we're on a season with Coach and Ozzy and Cirie. And just historical threats. Like Christian was the biggest threat in his season. Everyone wanted So, it's like you've got probably about seven massive threats. The half the cast are big lions, right?

31:53 So, I don't think that really holds up as much water, and I think Tiffany was smart in the moment to essentially just be like, "Hey, you know, I'm not going to take my own game by trying to save D." But Tiffany was the only one that voted for Was it Coach? So, Coach is not going to take kindly to that, and it just going to That's going to paint another target. Like, if I was Tiffany, you just you just vote with the majority, right? You know that D is headed you know, just vote with the majority. So, I understand her instinct, but I think it's not the best thing, and this is why she's not being given a good edit, cuz she's clearly probably just going to be voted off next, or she just paints a target she's going to be public enemy number one, because the only thing more dangerous than a threat is somebody that didn't vote with you, right? So, you shouldn't vote with anybody. So, you vote her off. She's an easy next vote, right?

32:45 Yeah. And it was she did have one of the best voting confessionals as she went up there saying, "You know, you're delusional. I'm going to keep voting for you until I leave this game." type of thing. So, it'd be interesting to see if she does go up there every single vote and vote for Coach if she remains beyond the next Tribal. But, I feel like next episode could be a boring Tribal Council where we just know it's a foregone conclusion that Tiffany's next in line to leave the game. Unless there's someone out there in one of these factions that actually look at Tiffany as potentially someone that they can bring in and work with because there's a bigger war at play here. You've got the old school honor and integrity alliance that is gaining numbers. They've got five people in total still in the game. Coach might think that it's six with Rizo being his newly knighted alliance member that's coming to the to the alliance. But, you know, you've got Coach, Joe, Chrissy, Stephanie, and Jonathan that are all together.

33:39 That's five solid players that are always I think going to vote together. And then you've got the rest of the group which would obviously be Christian, Emily, Rick Devens, Naseer, Rizo, and Ozzy. So, that's six there. where does, you know, I guess do they need Tiffany at this stage? They've got six v five. Probably don't need her at the moment. But, why not bring her in at this stage? Andre, should you just cut Tiffany at this moment? What is the right move here? I feel like surely you can use that number. I would it would depend on who I was, but I would probably cut Tiffany. The reason is because we're still at a final 13, right? And like it or hate it, the reason why Survivor do don't really have merges of 14 and 13 really that often is because it makes for a little bit boring gameplay where people just go with the go with the numbers and you just vote off the, you know, the low-hanging fruit, which would be Tiffany here.

34:37 So, I don't see anybody really I could be wrong, but I don't really see anybody really picking up Tiffany because who is Tiffany entrenched with? She was entrenched with Kamilla, she was entrenched with D. D. I don't know what her relationship with Q but they're all gone is the point, right? So, she has no other alliance members left and hey, you know, if you if you're a big player like a Coach or an Ozzy or a or a Christian, you just want to make one more night and position yourself very well because yeah, if you pick up Tiffany, you don't know what she's going to do. She's a she's volatile. She's going to be like, well, I'm not with anybody. I might just betray you the next week. So, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't risk my game on that if I've got the numbers already or at least I'm secure enough in my coalitions cuz there's going to be a coalition a couple of coalitions and it's like the coalition's going to that's going to lose out. There might be, you know, they're just going to be the next like three or whatever that get out and there's only going to be three left including Tiffany.

35:34 So, it's like what's the point at that stage? And I just I just remembered as you were talking, there was a player I completely forgot about. They're so also not they're also unaffiliated with anyone and that's Aubry. Like I didn't really put her in an alliance. So, I guess who's Tiffany at the moment competing with all these people? I think Aubry is entrenched. I because you see you physically see Aubry and Jonathan made a made an alliance essentially. Like they only showed it for a reason and I think that when I think D was going around to I think to I think Aubry and saying, hey, let's vote off like Coach or whatever and it's like, well, no, oh, isn't Aubry with them? And then Aubry sort of with she thinks she's probably with Christian and Devon even though she probably isn't based on the edit. So, I think that Aubry actually >> more dangerous than what I thought to be honest and I didn't think about that angle because if Aubry does end up going with the Coach faction, that gives them six numbers potentially there.

36:31 And they did show Coach also reaching out to her when she was at the bottom. And she didn't have much. And why did they show us that? You're making a great point. They showed Aubry connecting with Coach. They showed her connecting with Jonathan. They're all together in that faction. There could be a blind spot here that we've missed in the edit and the and we might look back at this move by Aubry, which we now think is not a great move, to be one of the moves that actually got her to the end of the game because she showed people that she can be trusted finally by playing the idol when she said she would do it. Even though she got caught in a lie early in the episode. And if you think about all of her all of her everybody that was against her has been basically voted off, right? So like Q's gone, Colby's gone, Genavie's gone. Like There's only Steph, but I feel like Steph is like >> against her really though.

37:23 She Well, she was, but she wasn't explicitly. Yeah, and you know, taking everything else outside of the game, I know people are coming at Steph for things that have happened outside of the game. in the game, she seems like someone that even though she's got a strong personality, she always seems to be where the numbers are. And she's always moving with the numbers. She seems really flexible and agile in that. And I think that maybe she could work with Aubry. So, Lexa however had a has a different question for us here. Lexa says, "Can Aubry and Tiffany come back together and try to join with Ozzy and Cirie maybe? Rizo likes to work with women and Cirie said in confessionals she wants to work with Aubry." I do think there is a potential there. The question is just it feels like in Survivor Andre that, you know, if you're too late in getting the numbers, like for instance Rizo being late to the alliance to Coach, meant that he wasn't all that interested in it.

38:15 I think the same thing could happen with Aubry here where maybe she remembers Coach reaching out to her when she was at the bottom and she feels like she does have a better in with him and she also feels like, "Hey, if I'm going to get to the end, who am I going to beat? Am I going to beat Cirie or am I going to beat Coach?" And I think she'll say, "I can beat Coach at the end. I don't know if I can beat Cirie." So, it's interesting, but I think there's I think the main thing here is Tiff probably and Aubry are fighting for the same spot. They're fighting for that spot that what in South African Survivor we used to call it the loose change people. You know, who's the loose change people in Survivor that can still fit in? It's the it's the money you have at the bottom. The loose change that you can bring in to make a solid dollar, basically, you know? And she could be one of those. She could come in and slot in really nicely and still have longevity in this game. Well, this is this is Coach's playbook from South Pacific, right?

39:05 So, if you saw him in his original in his tribe, Upolu, was it? there was Who was that lady that he brought into the alliance that wasn't actually part of them early on. What was her name again? I'm horrible with names, especially I can't remember that far back. But, he also did the same thing with Cochran. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, right? And he gets it early. Like literally that was the day one. He's like, "Look, I know that there might be some issues here. Let's bring her in early. She'll remember this." And then him and Jonathan are doing exactly the same thing. He did this with Chrissy. And now he's got a like a loyal person in Chrissy. Yeah. Same thing with Jonathan. I think Jonathan's been rubbed off on and then he's doing that with Aubry and then sort of you're just showing these very early seeds. And it's like you see a volatile Coach, but Coach is able to do this cuz he's got people that are loyal to him at least for now because he showed them quite a bit of grace early on.

40:03 So, when he really needs them, it's not like somebody that comes in last minute and be like, "By the way, you know, do you want to make an alliance?" It's like you didn't make an alliance with me cuz you need me. No, you plant those seeds early on. So, if you want to be a volatile person, you can. You're free to do it. So, it's not the worst game play in the world because you saw what happened this episode. Coach got what he wanted. Let's be honest. It's not going to last very long, but it's a it was a I think it's a strong sort of playbook where you where you really plant your seeds very early on. Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. Lexi here says, "I think it's so misogynistic that they made her play her idol, but Ozzy and Reem gets to hide theirs. It's really bad look the way it played out and the way everyone bullied her about it." yeah, I don't know if it's if it's and again, it could be I'm not saying me as the man analyzing what happened here.

40:56 Like I'm not saying it isn't or it is, but I kind of feel like a lot of it came down to the fact that she just doesn't have as many friends out there, Andre. Like there was no one that was going to have her back in this moment, but with Reem and Ozzy, that they're kind of in with Cirie. Ozzy's a very strong personality. which if Ozzy's not going to play it, Reem's going to feel a bit more emboldened not to play it. We know Reem's season. He didn't play it for a whole bloody season. Aubry clearly didn't watch that, but I think a lot of this came down to the fact that Aubry felt this guilt herself to want to play the idol. And I And like we said, this could come down to be the move if Aubry wins maybe at the end and she sits next to Coach and she sits next to Jonathan and no one wants to vote for those two guys. Jonathan could potentially get some votes, but he's also ticking people off a little bit the wrong way, picking a fight with Dean on the way out and things like that. I don't think it's great jury management to be honest as the person's going to be the first juror for the season, but you know, Aubry could look back at this and this could be the thing that actually gain some trust and it could be the better move.

41:56 We might think it's great that Ozzy and Reem still got an idol, but at least like you said, the target's away from her now. Yeah, I don't want to be a result-orientated, but I think time will tell if that was a good move or a bad move. Cuz you give me the idol, you're going to still have the target on your back. So, I'm very curious to see if they change their tune with Aubry now that she doesn't have an idol and if I if Aubry was correct just based on she's had such a weird edit this season. But, she's had a very visible edit and I do think that what we were talking about her being quite entrenched with the Jonathans and the coaches now. I think in my opinion cuz they wouldn't have shown Rick Devens and Christian saying let's get rid of her Yeah. >> if she was truly cuz it wouldn't make any narrative sense. So, I could see her being like look you know, I didn't have a good time in my last season. I you know, in my first season I was I was you know, butting heads with I think it was Scott and who was the other guy Kyle?

42:51 I think his name was. you know, Coach and Coach and Jonathan aren't the best alliance in the world, but they're the ones that have shown me the most grace. I have a home with these people. Maybe she's going to play that way. so, >> But, they're bigger targets. The bigger targets they have on the front. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's starting to make the edit with Genevieve and make a lot more sense. I think we were both very afraid that she was going to be the one that wins out, but now that she has won out, let's be honest she's the big winner from that particular tribe. apart from I guess Stephanie. but that's >> What we're all fearful for Aubry is if in the next episode we don't see any content from Aubry because we had to see content from her this episode cuz she still had the idol. She had to play it at tribal council to get the target off her back. Let's see what the edit does going into next episode cuz she's also one of those players that have had a confessional every single episode.

43:44 She's been one of the main story lines of the season. So, we now need to see the new story line. We can clearly see the Ozzy Cirie Rizo story line. We can still see the Rick Devens Christian and Emily story line. Coach and Jonathan has got a bit of a story line. Will Aubry remain in that group? That will make me think her winner rankings from an edit perspective is going to start skyrocketing if we can see a little bit more of her connections playing out and people reacting to her playing the idol in a positive way, maybe saying yes, we can trust her or we can work with her. She's true to her word, type of thing, you know? So, I'm very interested to see where it's going to go. I do want to circle back to D though, because we have to talk about the fallen angel. We've got to talk about the person who I think is the best new school winner in the new era and I still believe that. I don't think that any of the winners' legacies are tarnished by coming into season 50 because season 50 was going to be a very steep hill for them to climb.

44:39 There was only three winners in a cast of 24, 21 players that were non-winners. And D does make it to the merge. She does make it to the jury. She'll have a say in who's going to win this season. And to your point, played maybe a little bit of a sloppy game towards the end of her game, but there was plenty of good this season as well. And I do think you pointed towards it. She was playing from a place of I'm probably going to go home tomorrow. I've got nothing to lose. I've got to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. in my mind, I absolutely loved seeing D come back. I hope we get to see her in the future, but I hope we get to see her in a in a season where she has a better shot, like, you know, a winners versus runner-ups or an all-winners season if we do a winners at war two or something like that, maybe by the time we get to season 60. how are you sort of feeling about D, her legacy in the game?

45:30 Where does she sit for you? I know, like I'm talking for myself when I say I still think she's the best of the new era. but we How do you feel about D's, I guess, game and her legacy as well? And would you like to see her come back? Yeah, I know I was impressed I was impressed with her pre-merge. I think that her pre-merge game was fine. she was always going to have a uphill battle. And I feel like with winners coming back, you should never really like no legacy should really deduct them by default just because they came back and they didn't do well. even like and this is a hot take, I think. but I think like someone like a JT. Honestly, I think JT's legacy in his second season for me went up. Third season is more neutral, like he didn't play too well. he was a little bit abrasive. But I don't think it went down. I think that after his second season, like, you actually he's really good. And I feel the same way about D.

46:21 And I feel the same way about Tom Westman. I feel the same way about a lot of the winners that didn't do quite well. And then like not everybody can be Sandra and Parvati. The only reason why Sandra and Parvati did like their legacy went up tremendously was because the strategy that season they were on. So, I mean, if I were a winner that was coming back, you'd probably try to model your game off the ones that were successful in the past. So, I don't know what it would be like. I don't know who the Russell of this season would be. Maybe probably Coach. You probably cozy up to Coach. And you play a Sophie type of game. Or you play a Parvati game in Heroes vs. Villains. Or a Sandra game in Heroes vs. Villains. So, I don't begrudge I don't begrudge her whatsoever. I would actually say her legacy I mean, Kyle's legacy went up because she was in a good position. It was no fault of his own. you know, Savannah, I don't really think she was ever considered a really top-tier winner in the new era.

47:15 Maybe like a middle-tier winner, probably. Probably neutral. >> middle to middle to up for me. I kind of I did enjoy her season. And I but I'm one of those people who I really rate people winning their way to the end. I think that's a skill. I know a lot of people deduct people for winning outright with immunities and things like that. In my mind, D kind of did the same thing, though, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah, so for me personally, I would say Savannah's probably top three in the new era. number three or number four, I'd say. So, she's definitely not bad. I'd say she's upper middle tier, like getting towards the top three, maybe. maybe that's something we should do. We should do a an off-season winner ranking of new era. >> I'm >> to say now would be a good time to just do a quick New Era ranking. Yeah, I agree with that. >> Dee is definitely number one, Kyle's probably number two. Yeah. I would I would and this might be another hot take, but I would say >> Rachel probably is up there.

48:09 I don't rate I think Kenzie's a lot better player than Rachel is. I don't think Rachel's that good to be honest. She Okay, so Rachel for me did one good move. And the good move for me was her playing her shot in the dark before she played her immunity idol. That was genius. That was like top tier stuff. But for me I think that she For me it wasn't she was playing on the bottom too much personally. I can't put her in a top tier personally. >> I would put I would put Savannah above Kenzie for me. So that's why I'd say probably top three for me personally. But yeah, Kenzie played a good game as well. She was on the bottom a lot. So it's interesting when you look at the New Era winners. There's not that many that to me has been all that impressive. Delora says Erica bottom. Yeah, I mean, I feel bad for Erica cuz I feel like she's If Erica comes back and plays again, probably bottom. But if she comes back and plays again, I reckon she's one of those winners that could do extremely well and impress people.

49:01 Cuz I do think she's got game. I just don't think the edit showed it. I don't think the edit showed us any of her game that season. And it's why there's been such a big backlash, why they've changed the way that they edit winners. since that season they've given people at least the confessional in episode. Cuz she was hidden for most of the pre-merge. And you know, at the end we didn't realize what some of her relationships were. And I think that's >> hourglass as well. The hourglass The hourglass is what was like And that's why her fault. That was Jeff's fault. I mean, you got Jam. He was pretty good actually. And then Gabler. I think people a lot of people put Gabler at the bottom. I don't think Gabler's that bad. I would put I don't think he's that bad. I'll put Gabler over a Rachel to be honest. I'm like I'm not a big Rachel fan. >> [laughter] >> People don't like Gabler, but I was the same. I actually quite enjoyed Gabler's game. the way he played like he Yeah, it was an interesting edit with his season. But anyways, I don't want to go too far off the current season and I do want to talk about Ozzy, right?

49:56 Because I think we all know that Cirie, if she wins this season, is going to be considered one of the top players of all time. Her placement is extremely high. Ozzy, however, you know, I'm starting to see a pathway if he can get rid of Cirie down the line. And I know, you know, people don't want to hear this, but that's the only way he wins, right? If Cirie gets sniped and Ozzy somehow makes it to the end of this game and wins the season. And he's had a consistent edit and I feel like for the most part Ozzy's edit has been extremely positive this season as well. Will we start talking about Ozzy as someone that is starting to get up on the Mount Rushmore, the top echelon of Survivor players? Cuz the first time he played, second place, got very close to winning, right? Came back, was outplayed by the Black Widow Brigade, but still made it to the merge, right? Every single time he plays, he does go quite deep in the game. South Pacific was obviously a little bit controversial cuz he got voted out of the game, I think, three times that season, which is a first for any player.

50:53 >> He did that on purpose. Let's be honest. He did that on purpose. It was strategy. So, to me, does Ozzy deserve recognition if he wins this season as one of And even if he makes the final Tribal Council here, where do we put him in our rankings as a player? So I think in the And it's kind of actually been boring the last few years with the rat Mount Rushmore because there's everybody thinks there's a canonical four. Some people say there's a five, right? Like everybody knows who the top five are. It's Sandra, Parvati, Tony, Boston Rob, and who's the A lot of people put Cirie in there. A lot of people put in Kim Spradlin or whatever her last name is right now. Natalie. >> Sandra, Parvati, then there's Boston Rob, and then Tony, right? Yes. That's the Mount That's the Mount Rushmore. I don't think I'm Okay, so there's four, right? And I think there's not many people dispute that.

51:43 But, then there's like, okay, well, who will Ozzy edge out? Is Ozzy more than a icon than Boston Rob? Probably not. Right? Is he better than Tony? I mean, Tony is probably going to be there for like I don't see Tony ever being dropped off on this as a three-time winner, right? No. So, I think no, but I think he's sort of like he's edging there. I would actually say three wins. Three might have a chance and this might be controversial, but three might have a chance of >> edging off either Parvati or not may not Parvati, but Sandra. I think maybe >> if you're if you're looking at US Survivor only, which is what I think most Survivor US like the Survivor super fans that watch Australian Survivor and know that Parvati has won a second time, probably wouldn't bump Parvati off that.

52:33 And I think for the Survivor super fan, Boston Rob would get edged out if Cirie wins this one and Cirie might Yeah, replace him. Yeah, I think so. >> because Cirie is a better player than Boston Rob. I was thinking about it the other day. It's quite interesting because when you think about the edit this season with a lot of women getting less of an edit, you know, Jeff in the past has said some of the most iconic players have been men. Well, when you look at the best of the best, it's actually more women at the top than men, right? So, it's quite interesting. Yeah, no, I agree. I don't think you can remove Tony. I don't think you can remove Sandra. Parvati is the two-time winner. If you take out of the equation her Australian season, I don't know if she would get edged out. Yeah, but she would still not be edged out because she might and she should have in my mind, you know, should have won Heroes vs. Villains. I know that's not a hot take, but >> Zeddum had a interesting question.

53:24 He's always confused what's meant by Mount Rushmore? People paved the way, the top four or the foundation? I like I think just total like all of the above, right? That's what I'm thinking about. Cuz even cuz you have different ones like, you know, the Mount Rushmore or foundation is obviously going to have Richard Hatch, but he hasn't come close to the Mount Rushmore. Like this is the best of the best. Yeah, I think what would be fun to do as something that we could do at some point is like who's the Mount Rushmore of characters that have ever played the game? Who's the Mount Rushmore strategist? Who's the Mount Rushmore of all round players? Like you could you could define it in so many different ways when you look at it, but I think when people refer to the Mount Rushmore of Survivor it is very results focused. It's very much how far did they get, how many times did they win? And to a certain degree how much of an impact have they had on the game because Boston Rob has had a big impact and while we're talking about Ozzy potentially in the running to beat one of Boston Rob's records for most immunity wins ever on Survivor.

54:25 I didn't even know that Boston Rob was the outright leader of that, but you know, very much Ozzy has been in the same amount of seasons as Boston Rob, has been around for as long and has inspired like Boston Rob has inspired a whole generation of people who have watched the game, but I also think don't underestimate Ozzy's impact. Like I remember I think it was in South Pacific where kids were sort of in the crowd in the live audience saying that they look up to Ozzy and they want to go out there and learn what it's like to go out and spearfish and climb trees. So I think Ozzy has got its fans. He's got he's got those people in the kids that love them or the people who love challenges and things like that. So there could be if Ozzy did win this there could be a conversation between Ozzy and Boston Rob, but I still don't think he can edge him because Boston Rob's gotten to the end twice, probably should have won twice as well if it wasn't for a very bitter jury in All-Stars. Well, you could say bitter jury or he didn't play the game well, but you know, it all Yeah.

55:20 Is there anyone else on the cast that might have a if they win this season might have a stake to that claim like a Could Coach be on the Mount Rushmore if he wins this season? Coach is the number one when we talk about Mount Rushmore of characters, Coach is the number one character I think of Survivor ever. so he's already on that Mount Rushmore, but I don't think Coach can get onto the Mount Rushmore as an out-and-out all-around player. If he's a winner, and he also came very close in South Pacific. He did, he did. He just needed to well, that's debatable, I guess, but I think he did, right? Does he get onto the Mount Rushmore alone for being for winning? And he's probably not going to win, let's be honest. It's a hypothetical. But for being like the character pick, right? Do you do you Are you the I want to use the mount Who's on the actual Mount Rushmore?

56:12 >> bigger character winner than Cuz your biggest character winner on that Mount Rushmore is Tony. So you'd have to compete with Tony as a character winner, and I just don't think he's ever going to edge him off at this stage. So >> I think Tony's on an honor because he's a actually a good winner. He's a good winner, but he's also a character winner. He also played two of the best games of all time. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like in ways only Tony >> like give respect put respect on Tony's name, and you're saying that to the number one Tony fan. But I do see So like Tony obviously is good, and there's a method to the madness, but yeah, it's a it's an interesting topic. I'm interested to see how it's going to play out. I think the two biggest people who've got a chance, maybe Coach is up there as well as a as a distant third, but I think Cirie, Ozzy, maybe Coach. I can't think of anybody else at this stage that would be knocking on the door.

57:03 If Dee had won this season, and obviously she becomes in the running, but she obviously won't. >> If Dee won this season, she would be on the Mount Rushmore. Because two-time player, two-time winner, like you just put her straight in there, and you knock someone else out. You'd have to knock off Boston Rob at that stage. 100%. Yeah. let's see what people are saying here. Okay, I'm just going to go back cuz there was a few comments that's gone in. Erica Bottom, for me, Dee over Kyle, Savannah. yeah, I think so. I think Savannah would be third in mine as well. Maryanne for me, I know a lot of people love Maryanne and I think Maryanne's an absolute sweetheart outside of the game. I just don't see her as a top four winner for me personally. >> played a good game, but yeah, I think that Yam probably played a better game personally. I actually That's a pretty good list. List, I probably would put Kenzie a little bit higher. but I agree with that.

57:55 Yeah, top three is solid, Zudu man. I really like that. Lexa saying, I think Maryanne is my favorite new era winner. I also like Gabler. I know that's controversial. Yam is a close number two. I think Ozzy is good. >> Gabler, too. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I'm the same. I don't know why people like, you know, I just don't get the hate. And I think it's because people loved the I've got the girl's name who lost in the final. Yeah. I was going to say she was pretty She was pretty upset about that, yeah. Yeah, and the fans the fans loved her. Lexa says, I think Ozzy is already up there, but don't talk about him turning on Cirie. Don't even speak that into existence. Yeah, I'm sorry for saying it out loud. Zudu man is saying, not really, but he definitely moves up on the list of players if he does well on this. His only other good season gameplay was with South Pacific. [snorts] And they said, but he obviously doesn't go anywhere near Mount Rushmore. If an OG winner wins this new era, will that influence how future players approach the gameplay?

58:50 Will it change the way new era players play? And I think Andre and I spoke about this a couple of weeks ago. Andre, if you remember, I said to you, what's better for the show and for the 50s going into the 50s. This is going to be better for the Christian Hubicki's, the really game body kind of players winning this season or is it going to be better for an old school integrity alliance game style to win this season? And you said, well, probably the latter because it will actually not be more of the same as we've seen throughout the new era the whole time. I think the key to life is variety, and you want to have variety in gameplay. You want to have variety in the people that win the season, because then you get to see all of it. I would get bored if it was old school alliance and integrity every single season, but in some ways it would be good to sort of turn the clock back on a few of the things that we've seen in new era.

59:40 Yeah, I mean, we don't need a lot of crazy twists. Like that's We see what happens when we just let them play, and that's great TV. Like that's the foundation of Survivor. That's why we like it. So we don't necessarily need that. And I think that it really depends on I don't think it's a matter of an OG versus like a new schooler. Like if Joe's not going to win, but if Joe wins, you'll be like, "Okay, well, he plays like an OG, right? He play He plays a loyal game." Maybe that's not so much this season. He seems like a little wishy-washy this season. but, you know, if you've got somebody like Cirie play winning, right? Which is in the realm of possibility, she's an OG. Or she's as close to an OG as we're going to get on this season out of Colby. But she's playing like a new schooler. She's playing like Rizo's playing, right? She's playing a like a very modern game.

1:00:32 >> again, that shows why she is considered one of the best, if not the best player to never Like she's the best player to never win, because Cirie has this ability to adapt like no one else. Like she adapts to the people around her. and she just fits in with like even in the original season, like the way that she worked with Aras in that season, like you wouldn't have necessarily gone into that season and thought, "Well, Cirie and Aras are going to be the two people that are going to connect very strongly and going to have a really good working relationship in the game." So she's been doing this since her very first season. She just She's the only comedian. She's the first person that did the three-two-one vote, and that's still a very hard to pull off vote. like it's very It happens very rarely, and I think the only other person that's as good as her at doing that is someone like Tony, right? So she's like In terms of gameplay, in social and gameplay she's perfect.

1:01:24 She's only has one flaw in the game, she can't get to the end. If she can get to the end, she wins. But that's the one flaw in her game, which is like she still needs to after all this time, she still needs to prove that she can get to the end, which is just the one sort of that missing piece that, you know, that stops her from being on the Mount Rushmore. Yeah. Danny says, "Hey guys, sorry I'm late to the live." Danny, welcome to the live and we've covered a lot of ground, so I don't know how much we're going to do from here on out. We just need to go through the points and things like that, but go and have a look. I think there's some great topics that was were brought up by the live audience as well as Andre and myself here on the live on bias, cuz obviously I'm hosting the podcast, but we've covered a lot of ground and if D wins, she may knock Sandra off as a better US female two-time winner. there's so many names that got thrown out here.

1:02:15 A couple of other good names that were thrown out here was around Impact. What did I say earlier? They mentioned Rob C, they mentioned Richard Hatch. >> Richard Hatch was another one, yeah. Yeah, there was a there was a couple Jeremy as well as someone that's being mentioned. There's so many I mean, we're fortunate to have watched 50 seasons of this great show, Andre, that, you know, has kept us entertained for going into our 26th year. For those that's like actually watched it since the start. there's so many great players. There's phenomenal players that have only played once, you know, like a player that I my namesake, Chris Daugherty, who played back in one of the worst seasons ever. I would have seen him play a second time cuz he had probably the best emotional intelligence that I've seen from a winner ever. Like he was up there with the best, right? So >> No, he had the best tribal final tribal council performance of all time. >> Performance. Yeah. >> 100%. >> Absolutely.

1:03:06 It's between him and Todd, I feel like. Todd Herzog. Yeah, Todd Herzog is really good. >> really good one. But no, so there's some great players and great people who've just never had the opportunity. Todd's another one to come out there and play the game twice to actually show us that they should be on the Mount Rushmore. So, that's why I hope we do get to see another winner's head war season. And I was going to ask you something Andre. If we ever were and I hope this never happens, but if we ever were to get a season that officially is the last season of Survivor and Jeff is like, "I'm hanging up the boots at season 60. This is it. Unfortunately, we're going to we're going to end the show after this." Do you believe it would be fitting to get Richard Hatch back into playing Borneo? Maybe get like a season back in Borneo as the last one. Go back to the roots and the origin of where we started. >> be the he might be the age of Rudy. >> [laughter] >> Like very older. Like he's not he's not a spring chicken. I don't know. I think I think in this day and age it's going to be very hard to bring back someone like who literally we know what happened in All-Stars.

1:04:01 We don't need to re-litigate all that. True. I was forgetting about it for some reason and then when you bring it up I'm like, "Yeah, that's right." He's got He's got problems outside of the game I've heard recently again. >> Legal problems, tax problems. Too many I mean, I would like to see I would probably prefer to see Fairplay on. I know that people don't like Fairplay. But I think he's trying to he's a little relevant after the incident. I don't know if you've ever heard about that, but Richard Hatch I don't know. I think if it's a last a final season, you need a I feel like you need to bring back all the one-time winners. And I don't mean people that have returned, right? You want to see You want to see Earl. You want to see Todd. You want to see Brian. You want to see those old-school one-time winners that you really want to see play again. Like I wouldn't mind Fabio coming back, you know. Natalie White. Just those people that would be a really great season. Just the ones that have kind of slipped through the cracks.

1:04:52 Yes. Vecepia. Everybody wants Vecepia back. Like there's so many of these names that we just haven't even touched on that I reckon would be incredible to have come back. >> Yeah, for sure. I'm with you. I really even it could be a new school versus old-school winner season or something like that. But I'd I'd I think if nothing else I'd love for us to go back to Borneo at some stage. Like I just want to see it happen. >> 16? Well, not >> One time winners. Well, yeah, I don't know back to basics if it would be interesting enough. >> token teams type of back to basics with like a couple of idols. >> yeah. But I'd love to physically go back. Physically go back to Borneo. Like to actually change up the island location from Fiji. I feel like it's gotten a bit stale for me. Yeah. Okay. So, we do have some work to do. I've been holding off from doing it for long enough this episode cuz for the first time Andre can breathe, you know, easily today.

1:05:48 There's no issues on his end. but for me, Andre. I'm going to take a knock here in this episode. I have D knocked out of the game and officially down compared now to the TNT community who still has six players left in their tribe. I've got five left. >> very good now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and we'll talk through points and things like that real quick and then we'll talk about how people are looking for the rest of the season. So, this episode Coach, Joe, Stephanie, Ozzy, and Aubry survived in my team. We had Stephanie go out and find an idol or not an idol or an advantage. She got the This is the steal a vote or the added vote? I forgot.

1:06:39 Steal a vote, right? >> it's a steal a vote, yeah. So, Riya has the added vote, yeah. Yeah. Then we also had D caught in a lie for lying about not telling Emily about the potential idol of Riya's. Would you agree to that? Yeah. No, she's she played a sloppy game this time. Yeah. then we had on this also Coach with a meltdown. So, that's two points overall 13 points for me even though D lost me five did lose me five points. team Andre, you had Christian and Devin both with a point. Nothing special. I don't think that they did this episode really unless you want to sort of put something out there that you think they did. >> No, it wasn't it wasn't their episode. They were visible, but they weren't the main characters for sure. So, I'm just glad I'm not losing points. Yep. And then for I one that I forgot about and my team is Aubry plays an idol.

1:07:32 We didn't say if it should be successfully played or not. We just said played an idol, but I'm happy cuz we've never had anyone play an idol this episode yet. Do you want to change it to play it accurately or just keep it a play an idol? Or play an advantage. I think we should just keep the rules as they were, which is if it says played an idol, then yeah, you play an idol. We just keep it like that. Okay, for TNT community, they had Cirie, Chrissy, Turf, Jonathan, Rizo, and Emily all survive, all get one point. Rizo had to me the quote of the episode with we slay dragons at tribal not in camp. So, I gave him two points for that. Would you be in agreement? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. And then I'm just trying to think if there was any like who really drove who drove the vote? Was it a good I don't think we could get it give anybody really Yeah. Coach vote, but did he make a Was it a big move in your mind?

1:08:23 Was a risky move. I think it I think it was If you if you If you're able to manage a herd a herd a herd cat like 12 cats, I think you deserve it. It might be bad for his game long term, but like let's be honest. Like that's a hard thing to do. It's true. It's true. Okay, so I'll give him that. And then Ozzy also won the immunity, so he got some points there for me. overall, we have you in third place at 56 points. it's going to be hard slog like we know for you two to make that ground up just with only having three players in there. but you never know what can happen. You know, you can still get a win and maybe a runner-up. >> Christian could yeah, he could go on immunity run. He it's been known to happen. Yep. Yep, definitely can happen. And then TNT community ends up with 99.8 points in total this episode.

1:09:13 And then myself out in front still with 119. Really the thing that I've been sort of ranking or raking in the points for me I should say is my players are either sloppy or they're making big moves or they're having a meltdown. And a lot of those things I did not actually like I wish I could say that I planned for it to happen this way Andre and that I that I knew exactly who was going to get caught in lies and who was going to have meltdowns. >> Come on, you drafted Coach. You did. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I did I did draft some of the characters. I did. I did I did definitely. >> I was hoping Q would do this type stuff but you know, we'll see how that turned out. But I also had Joe and I also had Colby. So I also had two very vanilla players that probably wouldn't have given me those points but Aubry's been great for it. Ozzy's been great for it and Coach has been great for it for me at the moment. I do think that if I had to look at a winner pick in my team currently and I can't believe I'm saying this, my hopes are on Ozzy and Aubry at the moment.

1:10:10 Like >> [laughter] >> I had hopes for Coach prior to this episode but Andre, I don't know if there's a world where he gets to the end and win this at the moment. Yeah and I don't see it. I like I think I've probably maybe five people that can win and the rest I'm kind of writing off just based on their edit. Like I can see I can see Ozzy winning. I can see maybe Aubry winning but probably not. Christian I can see winning for sure. Devens and that's another maybe. And then Cirie and then I would say Rizo Jonathan. So that's seven but then there's two maybe. >> as well. And even Rizo. The only problem I have with Rizo is I feel like Rizo is a fun like I have a feeling in my gut Rizo's getting to the end of season or he's either going out of fire making it again, it could be a story as well.

1:11:01 But he's definitely going deep, but it's just I've got a real >> winning. Yeah, because a lot of people like him. Like coach listened to him, which was surprising. He's been given a really good edit. Like he's like one of the major characters now and he's like they're not giving him much negative content. They're just saying, you know, everyone loves Rizo. He started off very a little bit difficult because he was he's an unknown, but he's like, "You know, I'm making all these funds. I'm doing all these quotes. I'm coaching coach." I mean it's a total legacy thing. It makes sense if you have someone like Colby or you have someone like Cirie literally and somebody like coach or whatever literally pass the torch and say, "You're the new generation." I could see that very as a strong possibility. Okay, so let's put our money where our mouths are at and let's choose three players each that we think is the best edit, the best chance to win right now as it stands.

1:11:57 I've been horrible with this because the previous time when I said Colby he went the very next episode. So hopefully I don't give anybody the sentence of death by basically telling them that they're in my top three. But if I had to go I would say right now based on edit I agree with you. I think Rizo actually stronger than Jonathan in the edit at the moment. So I'd have to go Rizo as one of the top three to potentially win. Cirie's in my top three cuz she's getting really good content. And then it's between I don't know what I'm almost going for all three. Like I feel like Cirie, Rizo, and Ozzy all three of them are very strong. But to hedge my bets and to make sure that I also have someone else I can still see a world where Christian gets to the end and win as well. So I'm going to put Christian in there as well. So Rizo, Cirie, and Christian those are my top three right now. Yeah, so Rizo's a lock for me and I would say my other lock is Christian. I don't know who my third one is.

1:12:48 I think my third one's like kind of like your Christian. It's like you're quite a kind of not sure who third one is. I would probably sort of go Are we saying who based on the edit who we think is going to win? Based on the edit because we That's all we have to follow right now. It's very hard to know who's going >> to win, right? To win, yeah. Who do you think is going to win? Who is the winner's edit potentially win, yeah. Yeah. the third one's really hard, but I would probably say Cirie. Cirie I mean, I'm I'd Is that the same three that I have? Cirie, Christian I think so. Yeah, cuz Ozzy had too much negative content early on. Early on. in my in my opinion. Like it's like consistently we've seen Christian be consistently like the narrator the entire season. Even a quiet episode like this one, we still see him narrate stuff.

1:13:38 Yeah. Rizo has this like really great positive arc. And Cirie's just kind of being there. You always see her >> Yeah. withering into You see her being like the what with the little We didn't even talk about the Stephanie trying to lie to Cirie and her just calling her immediately, getting her to spill the beans. Like and she does it in such a non-threatening way. There's so much subtlety to how Cirie plays this game where, you know, you get someone else in that moment, they pressure Stephanie doesn't open up, Stephanie feels like that person's coming for them. But Cirie does it in a joking way which is disarming and obviously has a relationship with Stephanie which definitely does help. But Cirie could have done this to anyone on the island and no one would have felt threatened by her. And I think that she's got this way of disarming people. Like you said, she's the best player up until the point of final four, final five where she needs to win.

1:14:29 Yeah. Yeah, she can get that very far. She just hasn't been able to get to the end and that's We'll see this season if she's able to do that. The reason why Cirie like for me the winner's edit is just she hasn't been as visible as a Rizo or Christian. That's the only reason she's number three and that's why I was unsure about her because I could easily see Jonathan winning, and I could easily see Ozzy winning, but I think Cirie just you got to give her dues. You got to be like, "This is This could be Cirie's season. You don't want to miss out on that train." Yeah, well, my question to you is, would the Survivor US team CBS, would they be as obvious as Australian Survivor? Like when Parvati won, we all knew she was going to win most likely Yeah. before the merge because they was they were over editing her so much, and you're like, "Well, clearly they're going all in on Parvati." >> Luke could win, but then by the time >> Maybe Luke.

1:15:21 Yeah, but you were just You couldn't see a way to the end where Luke was going to get there and have enough credibility in the moves that he made and the things that he did to win the show even though he was a big character cuz everything went against him, right? Where with Parvati >> always two horse race. It was always either Parvati or Cirie. You knew that either Parvati or Cirie were going to win, and I think by the final like six, you're like, if Parvati gets to get to it, she's got it in the bag. There's no way that >> Yeah, she was just like even in that season Cirie was edited, but she wasn't edited to the same She didn't get the same amount of content as Parvati did, right? She would disappear sometimes. She would disappear sometimes, and I think this is kind of similar to what we're seeing a little bit here. She's always been around, but I think there was an episode where she got zero confessionals actually where a lot of people counted it out because of that episode, but she's been around. She's constantly a part of the strategic narrative.

1:16:12 Now that she's got Ozzy and Cirie together, there's clearly a camaraderie there that I think that alliance is going to go deep. I don't know. It's interesting. I almost wanted to pick all three of them cuz I think I could see a world where all three of them sit in the final three. and yeah, I think Christian has been impressive this season. I think if I had to go for a dark horse, you could go at like a Rick Devens as a dark horse, a Jonathan or an Aubry as a dark horse. Those could be some dark horse picks, but I think the winner probably sits with in one of those I just can't see the way. Like I know some people have mentioned Emily earlier. I just don't see a way where Emily gets to the end and runs. She just doesn't have the emotional connections. Yeah, I the way that I like I feel most seasons sort of play out is that there's a dominant alliance. The dominant alliance gets too dominant and they start to turn on themselves. So, in reality the most likely final >> I just want to say I misread.

1:17:02 Sorry, Zooderman. You said Emily could be a zero-vote finalist. I was just like, okay. So, nobody said Emily can win this game. I just wanted to make sure. Cool. it's on the record. but she's fun to watch. Like, she brings she brings some chaos to the season. I still think she's got a place to play in the season. I think that's it. Is there anything you wanted to talk about? Anything else that you wanted to bring up? I just find it funny that I say this every episode. It's like, we didn't even mention Chrissy at all. She's been No, [laughter] no, I don't think we mentioned her name once, actually. It's so sad. I mean, this is why they're saying Chrissy is a potential Zooderman said Chrissy could be a potential zero-vote finalist as well. we know what I think what makes it disappointing is we know what Chrissy can bring to the game and we know that she's a she's a badass player. She's got great strategy. But in a season with such a big cast where we still have 13 players left going into the next episode, if you're not driving the narrative or you're not winning the season, you're probably not going to get content.

1:17:59 And it is a shame that we look at her and we're like, we can definitely count Chrissy out. we can definitely count Joe out. Joe's kind of similar to Chrissy at this stage. We're just not seeing anything. Tev is getting content cuz she's probably out next or in the next couple of votes. so, there's just a bunch of players that are just not doing anything exciting right now. >> Or we could What if we're getting an Australian Survivor type of edit where it's like, we're just going to edit the story and then whoever wins? We could get that. I mean, it's been known to happen. It's like, oh yeah, oh Chrissy won. How did she win? Oh, you sort of kind of saw her a little bit. Or it's like, you know, >> That was irritating. Yeah. Like an old-school edit. It's like a Sandra edit in Heroes vs. Villains. Like you like Sandra disappeared half the season. And then it's like, "Oh yeah, Sandra wins because everyone hates Russell, okay?" True. It's very true. Yeah. everyone, thank you so much for jumping on the live and taking part on it and you know, being a part of the discussion.

1:18:56 We will be back next week. I'm hoping that it's going to be not a Tiffany vote out. Like if we could choose, Andre, who would you like to see go out next? Oh, you said I don't want to see a Tiffany vote out, but I kind of do, >> [laughter] >> to be honest. Well, it's like it's Do we want Do we want a good episode or do we want a good I don't want to say burning out Christian Tiffany will be a good season. >> a good episode. I want to be entertained. So I think for me an entertaining episode next week is taking out like a coach, taking out and even though it'll hurt my draft, so I'm taking my draft out of the equation, taking out a coach, a Jonathan, a Rick Devens or somebody like we just don't see it coming. It's like it's a blindside on the horizon. That's what I want to see next week. I want to be entertained. >> you want full entertainment? Yeah, if I'm going to tell you here >> [laughter] >> at If I'm going to come on here and talk about Survivor 40 now, I want to be entertained.

1:19:52 If you want full entertainment, how about this? Try this on for size. Cirie gets backstabbed by Ozzy, right there. >> Oh, you're not going to leave the podcast like that. >> [laughter] >> See, you said you wanted entertainment. It's not going to be good entertainment, but it's going to be very entertaining. We're going to lose half of the live audience next week. They're not coming back after you said that, Andre. Don't worry, Danica. I don't think it'll happen. Ozzy's a good man. He will not do that to Cirie, but >> It won't happen, but that would be one of the all-time great episodes in terms of entertainment. [laughter] Peo- people are ready >> See, it's In the US, people are ready to go up now Andre. They're not going to be able to sleep. >> [laughter] >> Well, that's the correct answer if you want to real entertainment.

1:20:43 Controversy. Thanks everyone. We're leaving on a very controversial note. Please subscribe, like the podcast even though Andre just said that I don't know if it's going to get the likes or not. That's what we want to see. Everybody grab your torches, head back to camp. We'll catch you guys [laughter] next time. Bye.