Survivor 50 | Episode 8 | Recap

0:00 [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Welcome back to the Nullified Take channel.

0:59 We've got the TNT takes for you on Survivor 50 episode 8. Andre, I'm excited to talk about this episode. Lots and lots to discuss. Are you still enjoying the season? it's after last week, I think this was this is definitely a step up. Like I was I had very low expectations for the twist. but I really enjoyed it. And I'm sure we'll go through it through why. yeah, I quite I quite enjoyed it. You know, a little bit sad about who left, but you know, I think there's not going to be a week where we're going to be happy, right? With who left, so Well, anybody in my mind and I'm and I'm sure we've got people in our audience, the TNT community, that don't like Coach. I'm There's a lot of people who don't like Coach. Coach is a polarizing character, right? But I know you and I we're all in on the dragon slayer who became the tide walker that then went back to being the dragon slayer this season.

1:51 Like we love good TV. And for me, I've said it before, Coach is a Mount Rushmore character of Survivor. No matter how you slice it. And I think that again this season shows us how good a season can be when you've got polarizing characters. People when you've got people not liking so like even Emily's not my cup of tea, right? I'm not talking about her as a person. I'm sure she's a sweetheart outside of the game. As a character, I don't always enjoy seeing her. But to be honest, that's why she's great TV. Like Emily is one of those new school characters with Q and the likes of that. If you're feeling a certain kind of way about this person, you're either excited or you're sad to see them go. That means casting has done their job. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, exactly. Like with the Emily point, she's either hot or cold. When she's hot, you know, it's great TV. When she's cold, maybe not your quite your cup of tea.

2:41 And I think you know, Coach is the same way. Even if you don't like Coach, I think you have to accept that, you know, he's good TV at the very least. You know, this season we saw more of a fun Coach, more of a self-aware Coach, I would say. I felt like he was super self-aware last episode where he was like, maybe I've gone a little bit too far. let me just pull it back a little bit, you know. you know, and you know, he was making haikus for a reason and we finally got the Magellan quotes, so I mean, what more could you ask? I mean, is this the last Coach that we're going to see ever? Or do you think he's ever going to come back? Ooh. yeah, I want to get the chat involved in this. Chat, do you think we see Coach one more time or do you think that's it's done now? So yes, if we see him again, no if you don't think we're going to see him again.

3:32 For me personally, I think I'm sad to say it, but I feel like Coach's saga is done. I feel like he's gone through the full arc of, you know, whatever we could get out of Coach in the show. But what I will say is I think we see Coach on Traitors. Most likely. Because he's put it out there. He would take a leap. Yeah, well, he's put it out on the on I don't remember whose podcast it was. It's probably like our app or something. He said that he would consider Traitors. So I think that Traitors would be fools not to cast the dragon slayer on Traitors. I think it would be a hell of a lot of fun to see him running around. >> fools not to make him a traitor, too. Yeah, like imagine he's not the traitor and he's got to go find the traitor, you know. I don't know if you Do you think he would be a good traitor? I don't know if Coach would be >> would be. I think he No, I mean, he was a pretty good traitor in South Pacific.

4:24 You know, he was he was backstabbing people left and right left and right. He would actually be quite good at it. I don't think I would want to see Coach if he wasn't a traitor cuz he would just be oh, you know, we're loyal you know, faithful and stuff. It's right to his character. It's like, ah come on. Like make it make it a little bit fun. Make him just go balls to the wall and just really lean into the other the other side of him which he's never admitted. Like on the show, he's never admitted that he's a deceitful person. Maybe a little bit this season. But like that's the that's the great irony of Coach. Coach is such a po- The reason he is a polarizing figure is because I don't think people like his hypocrisy. But my other point is that I think he's his hypocrisy is kind of like it's self-aware hypocrisy, if that makes sense. Well, I think the jury's out on that. I think a lot of people sometimes wonder, is Coach is Coach aware that he's being a hypocrite or isn't he aware?

5:17 And sometimes it feels like he is and he's in on the joke. And then sometimes it feels like maybe he is a bit delusional when it comes to that. But I want to say hello to people that are in the live chat here. Scott, welcome back to the live saying, I got lucky and noticed that the live was about to start. What an amazing episode this week. What an amazing episode and what an amazing podcast for you to be a part of today, Scott, because we've got lots and lots to talk about. Danny is saying, hey Chris and Andre, glad I could catch the live tonight. We're happy to have you here, Danny, as well. Coach Drew will be happy that Coach left, so now he can do his 50 days of Survivor again this year. I didn't realize that Coach Drew was on a sabbatical from doing the 50 days of Survivor due to like it's the battle of the coaches. Who would have known? Who would have known? Coach is a great character, whether you like him or not, he brings entertainment. No, he said he'd consider Blood Lines with his with his son. Yeah, Blood versus Water, I think he said, Andre, he would do if his son He said if his son wanted He said he's done with Survivor, but if his son wanted to go play, which apparently he does, he's been asking him to do Blood versus Water, then he would go back.

6:17 So I think >> is his son? I don't actually know. Does anybody in the chat know how old his son is? >> So Heroes versus Villains was how long ago? 16 years ago? Did he have a son by then? I don't think so. I think he might be quite young. He's saying he's getting older. What is he? 53 right now? So could we see a 60-year-old Coach with his son on the show or something like that? Possibly. I mean, this alone, Andre, gives me hope that we might see another Blood versus Water season again. Cuz I love the best version of Blood versus Water is the one where you get the players coming. And I mean, we've got Cirie and her son. Like we probably get Cirie back with her and playing the game. He's played Big Brother before, so he's no stranger when it comes to reality TV. But you know, there's definitely And what about Rob and his daughters? Like if one of his daughters wanted to go play.

7:07 Like imagine this. I picture to you, Andre, Survivor Legacies. It's all about the new generation, you know, your legacy in the game playing it with you. Yeah, the only thing I think the community would not like Cirie's son to come. I don't think based on He's not popular. No, not in the Big Brother circle. So maybe we can I think bring back Amina. I mean, the American audience hasn't seen Nina. I think that's that's good. And I don't know who else would be in the mix, but you'd have to think of like people from like really way back way back when we're kids. >> Tony's got Tony's got kids. Like I remember seeing Winners at War, he had like a son and I think a daughter. So there's I mean, if I was to see the legends come back and play the game, I want to see them play it now with their children. I'm talking about like the old school old school legends of the game. If they were to come back.

7:58 Rupert have kids? I feel like he would have kids, wouldn't he? Probably. Yeah. You think that's probably people like under the under the radar. Does Brian Heidik have kids? That would be pretty good. >> Yeah. Scott's saying, I don't like dis- don't dislike Coach. He's entertaining and his hilarious hypocrisy. I doubt he'll be back, but if they ask him again, hell yes. Hello everyone. Hey Georgette. that's more about him potentially playing, I think, again. I wanted to talk a little bit about Emily just before we move on cuz I don't think we're going to talk about Emily a lot this episode. And I kind of I made some friendly fire over her way. But I will say there's times when I'm like flirting with liking her versus disliking her. And I think that's why she's such a great character. This episode, one of the things that I absolutely loved for was Rizo fanboying over dragon slayer saying, you know, I can't remember what the exact words was is, but like, you know, thank you for the >> You changed my life.

8:53 You changed my life. In the same scene, you see the biggest eye roll from Emily as he's saying that. And there's hilarious. Like her eye rolls is next level. She just does not put up She Do you think she thinks that Rizo is acting or what do you Or she just can't relate? She can't relate that hard that she had to do that eye roll. >> she thinks that he's cringey. That's what I think. It's like, come on, it's Coach. What are you talking about? >> [laughter] >> Yeah. And also Rizo this episode like literally in the middle of the tribal council standing up and walking over to Devons to have a moment there. Six of those things, you know, so obviously the historian and Rizo being such a big fan out there getting to play the game, it must be such a such a great moment for him. But let's wind it back. Let's go back to the beginning of this episode. You know, Coach tries to damage control with Tev. Chrissy spoke to him about, hey, you need you need to go there and get the target off your back at this point.

9:48 Tell her it wasn't you, it was somebody else. And then he doesn't have another name ready. Should Coach have known better going up to Tev in that conversation? Like it sometimes feels to me like Coach played the game what now four times and he still makes these rookie errors where he didn't have a name he didn't have a name in the chamber to throw at her at that point and probably in the moment he knew if he did do it would have been easily verifiable or that she would have gone around and asked hey did you throw my name out there but what did you think of this whole approach and how sloppy it was from Coach in my mind it probably would have been better for him not to even approach her in that moment. >> Yeah. I mean it's par for the course for Coach. I think he's very when it comes to people that aren't in his alliance he's too much of a big personality and big strategic threat for people not in his alliance to realize that he's the one driving the votes. So there's no way like you saw the contrast between his approach and how he approached Tiffany and Ozzy which is I'm can't believe I'm saying this but Ozzy actually had a really good social game right?

10:47 Yes. You saw like basically a perfect approach from him. versus watch Coach and Coach was like I think they were just in a no-win situation. I think Tiffany knew that Coach was the one I mean who didn't know that Coach was the one driving the vote off of D. So he couldn't have won either way so it's like what's the point but I guess Yeah. I guess in Survivor you might as well try. I mean if it's not like Tiffany's going to gun after him harder I guess so Yeah. what do you have to lose at that stage really? And >> Nothing. I think and exactly cuz your point is like well there would be something to lose if he if he said a name if he said a name on who he should like who he who he should deflect to then he can have something to lose so I can see logically why he wouldn't say anything. It's like well I have nothing to gain by saying a name so I might as well just say nothing and just you know call it a loss.

11:40 So I think that was actually not the worst thing in the world because if he had said oh it was Chrissy then all of a sudden you know he she he would throw Chrissy under the bus and it might come back to her it might you know lose a little trust even though they're pretty tight. I think that was probably actually not the worst thing in the world for Coach to do. There's no downside to this my point. Yeah. Would the better move have been between Chrissy and Coach to work out who's got the better relationship with Tiffy Tiffany and I feel like in some ways Chrissy had a decent enough working relationship with Tiffany where maybe she should have been the one to go out there and talk to Tiffany and say hey I know there's a lot of heat on Coach at the moment but there's people who are playing Coach and they're the ones that you know put some wind into the sails of that vote against you and they're the ones that are kind of in the dark behind the scenes actually running the show.

12:32 So yes Coach is an easy obvious target right now but he's going to be an easy obvious target in the next couple of rounds. He's a big shield out there for us. We should be focusing on the other people Tiff that actually voted for you that maybe actually wouldn't have they would have been okay with you going because Coach was going around his target was D from the start. He wasn't happy to put a vote on you. He was actually against putting a vote on you but ultimately there were other people who thought you were expendable. Would that have been like the better approach just knowing that Coach really had no social capital when it comes to Tiff they clearly don't get along. I feel like they would have been a better move for him maybe to lay back and for Chrissy or someone else to do a bit of that groundwork. Yeah I mean doing exactly what Ozzy did. So >> Yeah. mirrored Ozzy's approach maybe thrown Ozzy under the bus. It's like well Ozzy voted for you and he's probably going to come up to you and say that it wasn't my idea. It's like he was actually that come on it was him and someone he's very close with that's running the show and it's just like look we know that there's a rivalry between Coach and Ozzy.

13:30 You know you know like you know what happened at the very beginning right? So it's easy to throw Ozzy under the bus at that stage. The question is do you really want to make a enemy out of Ozzy more than you already have and do you want to relitigate what happened in South Pacific? Maybe you do if you're Coach. Maybe if you throw Ozzy really hard under the bus that might stick but the problem is I just felt that Ozzy's approach was better. Yeah. >> don't know what the like you know the editors have been known to sort of take things out of order so I don't know who came first. Did Ozzy come first? Did Coach come first? Like maybe Ozzy threw under Coach under the bus first and then Coach was like a day later and we don't know that right? So it's kind of like at that stage it comes who makes the better pitch. Is it Ozzy or Coach and I tend to think if Cirie is in Ozzy's ear like I'm sorry but I would rather have Cirie as my coach for lack of a better term than someone like Chrissy as much as I love Chrissy she's not really well known for having like the greatest social game in the world.

14:33 So it's kind of like you got you got Cirie and Ozzy and then with the combined minds you got Coach and Chrissy I'm sorry but I'm not going to be choosing Ozzy and Cirie. Yeah 100% and Rizzos not that bad strategically either so I feel like it's a very strong trio between them. >> [clears throat] >> Hey Christian welcome to the live. Christian says Rick Devens is back. That is correct. He is back this season and we'll talk about that. I want to talk about this big game breaking twist that they had this episode. Finally after many years Survivor US sees this twist happening on the biggest of stages right? So we've already seen it in Survivor South Africa back in I think it was like 2001 one something like 2022 maybe >> Oh sorry 2021 yeah sorry.

15:26 Yeah that was the the tie destinies tie destinies and it was Renier and Amy that was voted off I believe but I think it was slightly different right? Where you only voted for one person the other person was but if you think about it's the same it's the same thing right? It's the same concept. Same concept it's just the only real difference is are you voting for two people? It's like no you really you're still voting for the Joe would have been able to keep his integrity. Joe would have been able to say I only voted for Chrissy I didn't vote for you Coach which it sounds like there's going to be some retribution at some stage in the game just from the you know Coach didn't give too much away in his exit press but it he said he was very sour with Joe when he left but Joe actually told him afterwards he only wrote Chrissy's name down but the producers made him go back and write Coach's they forced him to write Coach's name down. So Joe would have been able to keep his honor and integrity you know if Yeah it was it was which he's now kind of lost because he told Coach he would never vote for him That's the thing.

16:25 >> come back to bite him in the game later on in the game if he does make it to a final I don't think Coach I think is going to be pretty upset about this but yeah it's interesting that it's a it's a twist that was used many years ago 2021 in Survivor South Africa to your point Amy being the collateral damage in that season. She wasn't the target this season you could probably say Chrissy a bit of collateral damage going down with the ship here with Coach who was the main target for this episode but also I'm not sure if you know this but Survivor South Africa wasn't the first Survivor show to actually have this twist. Do you know which Survivor franchise was the first? I have I have no idea. I mean I have no clue. I mean I it's probably something like where like Finland or Canada or something right? >> It's Survivor Koh-Lanta the French version of Survivor had this twist first before anyone else.

17:16 So it was Survivor South Africa that took the idea from Survivor France and now it is in Survivor US and what do you think like what is your Do you like this twist? Do you not like this twist? It's good for a one-off. I'm just trying to think which one is a better version of the twist. Do you do you prefer to have it where you could like in theory if Joe doesn't want to vote for Chrissy he I'm sorry for Coach he can still vote for Chrissy but then you're sort of like splitting the votes. Or do you prefer it's like no you have to vote for one of these four pairs essentially. I quite liked it cuz it added something a little bit different to it. Again you know with the whole situation with the earlier twist it's basically you know it's luck based where it's like oh okay well the person that drew the bad group is essentially going to be the one that gets voted off in this group right?

18:13 It's sort of like a similar thing. These people didn't know and I would have preferred if they said this is what's going to happen tonight plan around it. Cuz then you saw someone like Christian you know just through sheer luck I would say who ended up being in the same group as somebody in a different alliance. Those people are never going to get voted off so that makes it a little bit less interesting but if you if you if you're from the outset say hey this is what's going to happen tonight plan around it and then you're probably going to find a lot of these groups where it's like oh I want to protect myself I'm going to go and be with somebody in the in the opposite alliance then we have a really interesting game right? So I would have I would have I would have tweaked that one bit and I think that would have been a little bit more interesting TV but I think there's always going to be a group where the majority alliance is going to have two people from the same alliance together.

19:05 And they might be clear targets so I like the way they played out. To be honest with you I'm surprised that the likes of Rick Devens who's a big fan of Survivor South Africa he's seen most of the seasons wasn't onto this. Like there's so many players left in the game you need to get rid of two players probably at some stage. You're probably going to have to get rid of two players for another round somewhere as well like cuz they still have many players in the game. And he's seen this twist. He's seen it play out on Survivor South Africa. When I saw the preview of them having to divide into pairs I immediately thought that this was a possibility. so >> I thought it could have been a possibility but I didn't think that would happen. I actually thought that it would have been a split tribal where you pair up with somebody and then the winner wins the immunity and then you basically random split off into two tribal councils.

19:56 That's what I thought and I think that's reasonable, right? Where I think they were thinking about that, they were planning around that as a possibility. >> Probably. Probably and that's a that's a good call out because then you do want to be with your allies going into those splits. And I think that probably once again just shows you how Survivor in the new era with so many different mechanics and so many variations of twists that are happening which Jeff loves because the players never know kind of what to expect can actually detract from good gameplay because in my mind this was a pretty straightforward vote at the point where Chrissy and Coach were together you knew Coach was a big target. Joe and Jeff I think would have been up for grabs and would have been in the conversation if they didn't win the immunity outright. So it was always going to go in a certain couple of ways. You knew that Christian and Jonathan would be in a good spot. There who else did you have yet?

20:47 Ozzy and Stephanie who I thought would be in a good spot. Rizo >> Rizo had an idol. Ozzy had an idol. Emily Rizo had an idol. Ozzy had an idol. So yeah. Yeah. I did like the fact that Like I like the twist cuz I think in the future if we do see something like this and we've got like I would prefer to see this rather than two splits. Like rather than seeing two small groups. I don't like the two small groups as much when it comes to voting. I like to see these big groups together in a true merge format where there's like extra stakes involved but you can also there's ways you can strategize now. The fact that you can have one person play the shot in the dark, the other person can still vote brings a different mechanic to the game. The fact that one person can play an idol on both of you and you're now safe brings a different mechanic to the game. So I wouldn't throw this twist in the trash. I would say there's definitely a place for it in the future to be to be used again and I'm thinking there's a lot of room for strategy to happen around it.

21:42 So I'm kind of high on it but I do think there's some fans that probably wouldn't have liked it as much because let's be honest Survivor fans we like to you know complain about certain twists and things that get thrown into the game. So what has been the word on the street? I'm kind of interested to know what the community thinks about this twist and have you been keeping up with that Andre? I've seen on Reddit people generally actually quite like the twist actually. Oh that's good. >> enough yeah I actually I don't I haven't seen anybody mention the South Africa reference at all. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. I'm sure Survivor Global or whatever have talked about it at like all the time. But it's again it's sort of like it's a really good twist. I would just have it kind of reminds me of like I don't know if you watched I don't think you watched Genius but the Genius what they do is they tell the rules of the game and they say you have an hour to do whatever you want to do to strategize whatever.

22:41 And I think this type of format would work really well when you're like okay here are the rules have an hour you know pair up and then you get to see that strategy rather than just going like oh you seem like you'd be good at a challenge or I wonder what this twist could be. It's like no it's like no these are the rules of the game let's try to strategize around it and let's just see that entire arc from beginning to end. I think if that just one tiny change would have made I don't think structurally we need to change anything. We just need to tell the rules of very early on. And once you do that I think Jeff has shown us many a times that he prefers shock value over strategic gameplay. Like and I think he wanted to be the one to deliver the news at the challenge to them and get those shock reactions to the fact that they're now paired they've got tied destinies in the game if one of them goes the other one goes. He wanted that TV moment and he thought that would outweigh any of the strategy that could happen.

23:33 And another reason that I say this as well is because the challenge itself felt like it went on for like half an hour again. This episode is like we just don't have the ability on Survivor to make quick and short endurance like challenges. Like Australian Survivor is really good at doing these endurance challenges where the challenge doesn't take up 50% of the screen time. It took up most of the screen time. So even if we did have that hour to strategize beforehand I almost question if we would have been able to see it even in an hour episode. If we would have had enough time to see the strategy take place. Cuz this episode even though there was a lot of exciting things happening like there were times where I kind of felt like I lost a little bit of that and maybe there was just not that much strategy going into it. Everybody just knew that they were going to vote for Coach. It felt like I don't know I felt like it was one of those episodes where I couldn't really grasp the strategy of what people were doing.

24:26 There was a clear narrative and a storyline in regards to what Ozzy wanted to do and Rizo wanted to do and Cirie being on you know obviously what is it Redemption Island coming back changing the plan and we'll talk about all of that but it was kind of do you do you get what I'm saying? Like I feel like there's less focus on the strategy more focus on the shock factor and also the twist itself and then the challenge. Then what this wasn't a very strategically complex episode at all. It was actually quite basic. Like essentially there were only two groups on the table that could have been voted for to begin with because Christian's never going to get voted for. Rizo and Ozzy's crews would never have been voted for. So you've essentially got two left and then obviously Tiffany and Joe they're off. So it's like okay out of these two who are you going to who are you going to vote for, right? And just the whole fact that and then we eventually saw the shot in the dark being played and there was one less vote on that side.

25:18 I mean it became a and then and then the whole Rick situation it became a pretty foregone conclusion at that stage. But it wasn't like oh this is going to be a crazy vote. It's like everyone's going to pretty much listen to Cirie, right? Like that's what it became. So I was a little bit disappointed on that regard because especially with the Billie Eilish idols you couldn't really play too much around it, right? Because imagine if you if they were regular idols and you could protect two other people and then add that into So it's like okay they're going to pile on Coach and then imagine say I don't know who's who is aligned with Coach that had an idol. Probably no one but imagine say I don't know Jonathan had an idol or something. And Jonathan's like well I'm not going to be voted for cuz he's going to want to vote off Christian and me. I'm going to play my idol on Coach and Chrissy save them both and then you know it could ricochet back on like Rick Devens or something.

26:15 So then that becomes a little bit more interesting rather than oh no all they're going to give a vote for Ozzy and Rizo just because they can't they like if anything goes wrong they're going to play the idol on themselves and there's not none of that. So yeah wasn't it wasn't super interesting but I think it was sort of interesting as a concept for sure. Yeah for sure. Scott here says since they got to choose their partners I like the twist even though they didn't know how it was going to work they still had agency. Cirie is the smartest person out there she made the best episode. Totally agree. Scott says I like the twist for a returnee season. I don't know how well it would work for newbies. Yeah that's a good call. At least we didn't have any celebrities on this episode. It actually felt like a full episode of Survivor. Mr. Beast is still waiting. Mr. Beast is still coming at some point. >> Fallon. I did hear it I did I did hear a theory that Rick Devens would make up a lie that his idol was a Jimmy Fallon idol and he would just make some up.

27:14 That would be funny. Yeah that would be funny. He's probably come up with something as well. It's like you know Jimmy Fallon idol and it's like it's actually super powered or something like that. It's a super idol. 100%. So okay so obviously Cirie doesn't end up getting a partner in this specific moment. She feels relieved cuz she didn't want to be the reason for someone to go home or not win immunity challenge potentially out there. She felt like she was going to be the last person picked. And I was surprised that not more people put up their hand for that specific moment. Like I think it was only like maybe five of them that said they're willing to go to the Redemption Island. But she ended up going to Redemption Island and when she gets there's hundreds and hundreds maybe like a thousand of coconuts. >> 2000 I think. 2000. >> 2000. Wow. >> Yeah. What did you think of this challenge?

28:06 We finally get our Cirie moment. People have been saying Cirie probably edit wise can't win the season because we just haven't had that I'm trying to climb this mountain. I'm trying to finally win it after so much you know effort of playing this game and always falling short. Do you think that Cirie we already had her in our top three last week both of us. Do you think that her win equity continues to go up after this episode especially because we got to see a little bit of that pass or do you think it's just more of the same like we had with Stephanie. It's a very similar edit. Stephanie went to do the challenge last week. We saw her pass the episode where they said about her shoulder and she had to lift her arm. Do you feel like it's very similar edits and they just are forced to edit it in such a way because Cirie has to go to this island. She has to do this challenge. There needs to be some sort of a narrative or do you mark this onto the positive bracket like just seeing her overcome this challenge and finally winning something on Survivor an advantage in this case.

29:02 It's for me it's a similar edit in the sense that it amplifies what we already know about these two players, right? So with Stephanie we already [clears throat] know she's kind of doesn't really have a home anymore. Like her home has been destroyed essentially. She's kind of like almost a free agent. Not really but almost a free agent at this stage. So her chance of winning is probably a little bit less than that. Probably amplifies her going to Exile Island and doing that challenge amplifies that idea. It's like okay. But with Cirie it's different. Cirie she's being portrayed as the center of all the alliances. She's being portrayed as the mastermind. She's being portrayed as having a really strong alliance. And I think I probably buy more into your idea from last week where it's probably most likely going to be three of the final four are probably going to be three Ozzy and Cirie or maybe final five.

29:54 I think they're going to be the dominant alliance up until maybe final six. And then I don't know if they'll sniff out that there are that the other three would be that there's another side actually because it feels like nobody knows that Cirie is with Cirie except Ozzy which is fascinating. it's actually a really it's kind of reminds me of the David Matt Rogers alliance from you know deep cut I guess from Australian Survivor where it's kind of like you can have two people if you don't know that they're really well connected. You can embed them into two opposing alliances. So everybody thinks that talking about you know the middle and it's just another side. But the way that Cirie and Ozzy are pretty and Cirie pretty much running the game right now they've kind of incepted to everyone else that oh no it turns out there's like three sides and we're all part of they have a finger in each of them.

30:46 So I think going back to your question I think that amplifies what we know already about Cirie. Yeah. Whether or not she can win I don't I really don't know cuz you would you would think that you would get a bigger edit if she was the winner right? Yeah you would and but [clears throat] she's been consistent in every single episode. I think there was one episode she didn't have a confessional. She's been consistent. She's always gotten content and she's always got a couple of great liners. I would say this if this specific episode was her biggest episode. This was the one episode where it was so obvious that she is the mastermind. She's pulling the strings. She's telling people where to point the guns at and where to actually vote people out because she goes and I wanted to sort of backtrack a little bit before we talk about her going back to the island and putting Cirie and Ozzy on the right direction. she does find this thing.

31:38 Did you find it weird and I this is the only shot I'm going to take at Cirie. I know people are going to come at me for even I think I know cuz I had the same thought. Let's see. Peo- people are going to come for me and I just want to be clear for me at this stage with Coach being out of the game it is Cirie a bust for me. Like I'm all in on Cirie. I feel like it would be a great win for her time. >> No Joe you have no faith in Joe? No Joe I do think like [clears throat] I do like I think the edit is pointing towards an Ozzy win potentially. That's my hot take at the moment. I [clears throat] I feel like Ozzy is being set up to be the person to go and win this season. He's had a very big edit from the start. I don't think Christian is going to overcome the like I just don't think he's got the firepower. Like we'll see some we'll see some great moves with Emily and Devens but you're talking about Emily Devens and Christian going up against Cirie Ozzy and Cirie at the moment and I feel like we're seeing their story more than we're seeing Christian Devens and Emily's story.

32:32 So my spidey senses are going off that Ozzy could be the guy that you know Cirie gets taken out along the way and then Ozzy wins and I wouldn't completely hate it either. Like he wouldn't be They're showing flaws in this game. >> for sure to see Ozzy grow up finally. And they're showing they're showing flaws in this game. Like he's not playing the perfect game in my mind but they're also showing him doing a lot of good. So he's got an interesting edit. and I don't think it's bad enough where I would count him out and I don't think Cirie's winning even though Cirie's getting a really good edit as well. But I want to go I want to go back to Cirie. So I've prefaced that by saying I love Cirie and I want Cirie to do well and I'd love for her to win. Didn't you find it strange that we didn't see that hourglass as she was like looking throughout all those coconuts? Like where was the hourglass throughout all that? >> Are you saying that there might have been some shenanigans there? >> [laughter] >> So I mean if you know where there's smoke where there's smoke there's fire.

33:26 That's the saying. >> a lot of weird stuff going on that island I have to say. So I can point like that was one of them. Another thing that I want to point out is first of all why is Cirie looking at the ones closest to the hourglass first? That makes zero sense. I think Ethan spoke about this on his podcast. You go to the very end and then you start from the very end. No producer in their in their right mind would put it right there. And the other thing is like my thought is like and maybe I'm biased because I we saw we saw it not face down. But like wouldn't you just run around just try to see I it because you're not going to have enough time to turn over every single coconut. Like it just it doesn't make any sense. So it's kind of like what is Cirie doing? Why is she going so slowly? Just look around. And then the final thing was they would have that of it.

34:17 Like they would have the camera right next to where it was and then Cirie in the background Yeah would you just look at where the camera is? Where's the GoPro? Exactly. Yeah. So I mean there was a theory that it should have I think just took some B shots after the challenge was over which makes a little bit more sense. cuz they've been known to do that but they've also been known not to do that right? I think Johnny Fairplay and both Russell both say that the way they're able to like Johnny Fairplay to find the chest and Russell to find the idols. The only way the way reason I Russell was able to find some of the idols he just he just looked at where the camera was pointing. He was able to find them. So it's like I don't I don't give the production that much credit to be honest. So I don't know just a weird challenge in general. >> had time to she had time to sit down think about the good old days and how much of a struggle it was. Like and I'm thinking to myself how much how much sand is left in that hourglass?

35:08 And the hourglass is not on the track. Like what is happening? And they at no point pointed back to it. I understand logistically it's a difficult challenge to like it was a really yeah it was a vast area that she had to cover with all these coconuts. So probably you couldn't have the hourglass in the middle of the but maybe the hourglass should have been in the middle right? And you have it right there where [clears throat] every now and again they can just pan back to it so you can see it. And I don't know what it is about us Andre that we're just not that you know we're conspiracy theorists and we think that production maybe would want to make a great reality TV show by getting Cirie to go back to the island and they know that Cirie is probably the person that is the most strategic out of everybody that's still in the game. Like obviously Christian is there as well and Devens is an agent of chaos and that but she's such a influential player that she can go back and really make things interesting. I don't know but let's hope she won it outright.

36:00 I'm not saying that it definitely happened. I'm just saying >> this is what I think happened. I think that Cirie got there. Cirie's not dumb. She's not going to go around turning every single coconut. She probably went there found it within like 30 seconds because it's pretty obvious. You just walk around and say oh yeah it's shiny. And then they're like no Cirie we can't just show this. This is just ridiculous. Can you do you mind if we just reshoot this and then you we'll make you win of course but you know just turn around every coconut. Maybe sit down for a little while. We won't show the hourglass. And let's just make a show out of it. because it's like all we really care about is whether or not she won or not right? What how she did it didn't doesn't really matter. But they probably want to weave narratives. It's been known to happen like I think with Boston Rob when he fell over that was a completely fake right? he had done it in reality but in order to get that B shot they had to refilm him like fainting which just takes away from a little bit but I can understand them needing to needing the footage to tell the story right?

36:56 Of course. Of course. At the end of the day it is an entertainment you know it's a TV show for entertainment so it makes sense. But Yeah I think it's highly likely. I do hope that the other podcasters out there who do get to interview people if Cirie ever does go on them like Rob as a podcaster any of those. I hope people ask her about this coconut challenge. I hope it doesn't fall off the radar cuz I really want to know what was her thinking? What was the strategy? How long did it really take her to get that? if she can talk about it cuz I know they sign NDAs and things like that maybe she can't really discuss. >> did to be honest. Yeah we'll probably know in about 10 years. Yeah. George is saying I agree 2000 is a lot from Scott. Scott says lying prediction at some point Emily will spill some info that ends Cirie's game. Hope I'm wrong but I couldn't but I could see it happening. what's the relationship like between Cirie and Emily at this point?

37:47 Would she even have information that Emily like Emily doesn't >> original tribe right? Yeah. >> Yeah but they were they were not really like super close that I could think of or at least they weren't portrayed as super close. But I mean you never know right? >> Cirie I feel like Cirie's only really honest with Cirie and Ozzy at this stage. And it's hilarious how Cirie's become like her he's equal to Ozzy. She's played this game with Ozzy like what three times or something? Cirie and Ozzy yeah. Yeah and now Cirie is like give credit where it's due. Like he's like softened her heart. She's the motherly maternal instincts are taking over and she's brought Cirie into her nest. And she's looking after him in this game. Like you know she heard hears Cirie's names flying around. Can't have that happening.

38:38 Cirie doesn't want that happening. You know and they and they changed the vote. But I do want to talk about you know Ozzy and Cirie sitting on the beach. They're strategizing. They're saying it's the time to take out the middle people at this stage. And Ozzy saying if Cirie was here this is 100% what she would be doing. I think this is a good vote. What was the thinking in this because the I was thinking to myself when I was sitting that the obvious vote is you take a stab at the counter alliance that's against you. If you can get two for the price of one that's what you need to do. You need to be cutthroat and ruthless which is exactly what Cirie does when she comes back. She gets them on the right target. What do you think was the thinking here from Ozzy's perspective? Why did he want to keep Chrissy and Coach safe and go for Eric Devens and an Aubry? So I think that there is a bigger there's a bigger relationship that we're not being shown between Cirie and Rick.

39:30 That's my conspiracy theory because we did see Rick and Cirie before the swap. They were really close. We didn't really see it too much. It was only that tiny bit where they had to show because they set up the story line of like Emily sort of having a meltdown with the idol, right? So, I think that it was purely a play to save Rick because Cirie knows that Rick's a number for her cuz they probably have a It's really not going to amount to anything cuz they're not really showing it that much. but I think if you're Cirie in the moment, I think that's the reason. I don't think that Cirie cares if Aubry goes or not, but I think she cares if Rick goes. And there's no literally no other option than than Chrissy and Coach for her. She's not really close with Chrissy and Coach either, so it's like it's a no-brainer for her. And if she can exercise her muscle like I'm thinking like Ozzy is Ozzy close with Rick or Aubry?

40:27 No. No, but he's got a relationship with Coach. Even though it's a contentious one, it's one where I feel like there is kind of like I can work with him to a certain degree and he'll work with me to a certain degree. So, maybe he just felt a little bit more familiarity with Coach. I think it was truly like a 51-49 sort of like decision and you know, Ozzy was like, "I'll probably just get rid of like you know, Aubry and Rick cuz they're probably bigger threats." And then Cirie's like, "No, that doesn't work for my game. And it probably doesn't work for your game either cuz your game's attached to my game. So, let's keep Rick cuz I can I can, you know, finagle Rick's and then by extension his numbers to work for us. I think that's what really happened." I think it makes sense for Cirie. I like she's not like there's no world in there's no world that Cirie would ever let Rick go over Coach or Chrissy.

41:22 It just doesn't make any sense. So, I think that her winning was actually very consequential to come back because without her there to guide the votes I mean, her fingerprints are all over the structure. So, yeah, that was actually way more important than we thought. Yeah. >> how impressive How impressive for one player to come back into the game, completely change the trajectory of the vote of where it's going to go, get everybody I mean, these are returning players, these are players all with their own minds and their own plans of what they want to do out there, but all of them fall in line and they follow Cirie here. And I think this is the thing where if you're and I think Cirie's the most connected player in the game right now cuz you mentioned something that I haven't even been thinking about with Rick Devens potentially and that conversation that Rick had with her before they split, she said, "Well, I can work with Rick.

42:14 He trusts me." And there's probably a stronger connection there than what we thought. and then you've got Stephanie that is now a lone ranger on her own that potentially she's got a relationship with Cirie. Cirie knows about her advantage which I don't think you know, she's told Rizo, but I don't think Rizo has gone around and told anyone about it. So, I feel like there's a working relationship that can still happen there. So, she's got all these different people that can get pulled into her alliance that can work with her. So, she's in a pretty good spot, but the one thing I'm fearful of is with Cirie being so direct and directing this vote when does she become the next obvious target to people? Like, you know, there's certain players I can't remember who said it this episode that said Cirie is that powerful that she can come in and change the votes that quickly. So, that's something that if you're playing this game to win, you should be fearful of. Do you think that Cirie is potentially showing her hand early in the game at the moment by doing it so early in changing votes here?

43:11 And is this something that could be a problem for her moving forward? Well, you've seen this every single season she's ever played. And you know, even Kira as a villain, she was finagling very early. she was in control of that alliance. Australian Survivor, The Traitors, Big Brother, you've seen it every single season without exception. This is the way that she plays. And the answer to that question is probably final five or final four cuz that's when she always gets sniped unless she gets idoled, I guess. but that's like the that's the correct time that you get rid of Cirie because the reason why Cirie will never get like will never get voted off post-merge before the final four or final five cuz you know Cirie's never going to win immunity. So, if I was Ozzy and Ozzy's the only person that really saw Cirie sort of finagle those votes really strongly. I think he's very close to him and I think the story that we're being told getting being set up with and it's just unfortunately I think I ended the we ended the podcast last week with this idea that like the most likely outcome that I'm seeing right now and nobody wants to hear it is probably Ozzy is probably going to cut Cirie like final five or final four.

44:21 Like, that just seems like the most likely cuz there's no way that anybody's going to vote out Cirie until like at least final six, right? Yeah. >> going to win. She's never going to win final like a final immunity challenge. She's never going to win a fire-making challenge. and you know that nobody wants to take her to the end either. Yeah. >> like unless Poverty's Even Poverty didn't want to, right? so, it's kind of like I think it's just it's a story as old as time, as old as Panama, I guess that this is just the way she plays and the only way that she can win is if she wins final immunity challenge. So, Cirie's better at practicing. All right. Well, I'm going to move the topic on from that cuz I don't think that a lot of people will be too happy with your prediction, but I mean, I can't see any flaws in your argument. Scott here says Emily's not with Cirie now, but still early. Also, she would need to necessarily be working with Cirie to win the game.

45:14 She wouldn't need to work with her. That's true. also said it was hilarious that Ozzy called himself stupid once Cirie explained why Coach and Chrissy was the right vote. I'm liking this Ozzy. This Ozzy this season is like the Ozzy that we always wanted, right? Like, this is the Ozzy we thought we had in his original season, but he just ended up being just be like completely obnoxious in with my friend here. >> humble. He's a lot more humble, yeah. And he's actually a good player this time. Yeah. I'm enjoying it. That's why I'm saying. I my Spidey senses are telling me he could win the season. he's been very consistent. Christian's saying Cirie needs to win the final four in fire-making challenge. The final four immunity challenge is what summation? Yeah, it's the one that goes down, right? Cuz that's the one that Is that the one that she What was the final immunity challenge in Panama that she lost?

46:07 I can't remember that. >> summation? Yeah, I can't remember that. >> I'll have to rewatch again. Yeah. >> Well, the question is there any Is there any final challenge that she can win? Mm. Like, I don't want to beat down on Cirie physically. She's Yeah. >> looking for a bird on a coconut. Like, if they bring that challenge back, you know, she's got a chance. >> I think Ozzy would beat him in that >> [laughter] >> beat her in that one, to be honest. Yeah, the only reason she wanted to she was only up against the hourglass. you know, she was not >> Exactly, yeah. The nonexistent hourglass, yeah. I just I just don't see what immunity challenge she can win unless it's pure luck Yeah. >> to be honest. And that's not a knock on Cirie. It's like Cirie has other strengths, which is why she won The Traitors, which is why she did so well in Big Brother. It's just that Survivor it's just that she's missing If she was a first-time unknown, if she was like back in Panama, she just got unlucky in Panama.

47:01 Yeah. that like I think what Danielle won final What I think Danielle won I don't know. I don't remember that far back either, but if it was like, okay, these 24 people don't know each other. There's no connections, there's nothing. They're just random people. I think I would have Cirie winning every single time based on what we know about her. Because the only reason why she gets so far and then gets clipped at the end is because she's such a known threat. But if people didn't know who she was, I think she has a really good chance of winning pretty much not a majority of the time, but a plurality of the time. No, it's true. So, obviously we go to Tribal Council here. Actually, before we go to Tribal Council, talking about edits and winners, right? Jonathan's got an interesting edit this season. Like, he is constantly being shown to us as well and is constantly has gameplay, his rationale for doing certain things are being explained really well.

48:00 Do you think he's getting this edit just because he's a good narrator? Like, he's getting more content right now than Christian or Rick >> But he's not a good narrator. I don't Like, what So, what is the reason that he's getting such a strong edit? Do you think we're going to see a deep run from Jonathan at the end of the game? Is he a dark horse I think he I think he still has a massive chance, actually. I'm just wondering if it's if it's like a Jeff favoritism thing or if it's like he actually has a chance. Cuz that's the only thing. It's like Jeff likes people like Jonathan, right? It's just it's not a it's not a secret, unfortunately. I think that's Colby got content earlier in the season as well cuz let's be honest. Like, Colby could have easily been a purple edit this season. Yeah, exactly. So, I think that there's like there's Jeff's favorites, which is now it's become a cliché, you know, there's probably more there's you know, it's 200 people working on the show. I get it. but I think that's sort of been like the whole sort of the narrative especially pre-jury that there was just terrible edits just for a lot of other people, right?

48:59 And it was especially gendered. putting that aside, I think that I think that Jonathan has a really strong shot. because I mean, if you look at all the contenders, you can kind of naturally remove a lot of them. But there's a lot of there's a lot of really good candidates and I think Jonathan is in like the top four or something like that, I would say. I think he's top four. Based on his edit, he's got to be just outside of the top three to win just based on his current situation. Maybe even top five, I'd say. He probably has a better chance of winning than Cirie, if I'm being I like hot take, but I that is I mean Cuz he could win. >> Based on what we've seen. Yeah, cuz he can win, right? But I don't know what that looks like. I don't know what a Jonathan win would look like because It's got to be an immunity run. It's got to be an immunity run. >> base. Yeah. I don't I could see that happening.

49:50 He'd be like Mike Holloway type of winner. Yeah, exactly. Like a Mike Holloway cuz to me Jonathan >> [snorts] >> I think hasn't quite lived up to the challenge beast reputation that he has when it comes to post-merge, right? So pre-merge, he would win all these challenges for his team. He'd be very dominant. but then post-merge, he hasn't really lived up to it. But it was quite interesting cuz I do think Jonathan has got a little bit of temper as well that he tries to keep down and him standing up and being very confrontational when Rick Devens got the idol and I see you or that could look very confrontational in the moment. Like so there is a risk that Jonathan could lose his cool a little bit. That could also count against him towards the end of the game when it comes to votes and all of that. >> territorial when it came to Coach.

50:40 I think I think Coach brought out the worst in I could be wrong. Maybe that's just who he is. I The thing is in his original season, he seemed like bit of a gentle giant actually. Yeah, he did. Yeah. When we're sort of seeing the other side of Jonathan, which I'm really liking because we're seeing something different. We're seeing somebody a little bit more strategic. We're seeing somebody that's super physical still. and I think he's sort of he's very well-rounded. He might be a little bit too well-rounded to be honest. He might be seen as a big of threat, which is why he might go to Mike Holloway Ben Driebergen type of run. Terry, right? Terry's original season. It's very similar type of archetype in my opinion. but I think he does have that I'm very curious how he will play without Coach. Very Now that Coach is gone Yeah, where's he going? >> goes down. Does he Does he go and work with the Brochachos? Is it like Christian and him now?

51:30 And is that a potential angle? And Aubry, remember he made that connection with Aubry. I think that the loyalty integrity alliance has shattered essentially. Yeah. >> people are in like Jonathan's probably going to go with the Brochachos. You got Stephanie and >> can I call out a couple of episodes ago he said one of the things he learned from his original season was that you need to make connections with these unlikely people that you don't think you're going to work with. So you've got to be flexible is one of the things he learned from his first season. And that's when they showed him going to Aubry and things like that. So I do think there's an avenue in there. And this could be the counter This could be the downfall of the Cirie, Rizo, Ozzy group that we just don't see coming right now if he does link up there. It's interesting. And it seems like him and Stephanie are pretty close as well. They're always sort of seen talking together, but I think Stephanie will gravitate towards Cirie.

52:21 She's got past history there. And that's kind of where I see that it is going. But yeah, it's going to be interesting cuz physically he's the biggest target right now. Yeah, he's like Yeah, he reminds me a lot of the mayor of Slamtown. I think sort of it's a very similar type of archetype. both underrated in terms of their social game. And I By the way, when are we going to get the mayor of Slamtown back? Let's get him back. Surely he's retired now. Surely he's retired. He's not wrestling anymore. Yeah, he's the ex-mayor of ex-mayor of Slamtown. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> retired mayor of Slamtown. >> Yeah. So I think I No, I think that with Jona with that entire side, I think what it's shaping up to be is like unfortunately you were Like I remember a few weeks ago you were saying that the loyalty integrity sort of alliance is going to be the victors of this.

53:13 And I think that what we've seen is they've completely disintegrated and it's going to be a kind of like a cold war between who can get the remnants of those people like the Joes of the world, Jonathan, Stephanie, and who can who can get them on their side. So it's like the Rizo, Cirie, and Ozzy side and then sort of the Emily, Christian, and Devon side. And then that would be very interesting cuz there's a lot of like inter like interpersonal like dynamics that Yeah. are super complicated. but to see who will end on each side will be super fascinating. Yeah. Scott brings up a interesting comment here. He says he says I keep hearing people on podcasts saying Fire making final four will take out Cirie, but wasn't that one of the fan votes? I don't remember cuz I wasn't there when the fan votes happened. So we don't know if there will be a Fire making it four. But if it was >> I think there will be. There must be. Jeff loves it too much.

54:03 I'm sorry. Yeah. Like even if the fans vote, he probably made the vote so broad. >> veto rights. He need veto. Yeah, so like sorry guys, this is the one thing that you don't get to vote on. Danica says if he loses immunity, Tiff would rally against him cuz Tiff obviously doesn't like Jonathan after that vote. But I don't I just don't think Tiff doesn't have much agency in the game. And who's she Who's she got? She's got Joe. Is Joe going to rally the votes for her? >> we saw that though. I think that it's I think Joe and Stephanie's probably going to become a pair. Right. >> Cuz who does Joe have now? Joe doesn't really have any Stephanie, I guess. That's a Yeah, maybe it's like a Maybe they're the kingmaker. Maybe it's like Stephanie, Joe, and Tiff decide who they want to go with. And I just don't see Well, if Jonathan goes with the Brochachos with the with the Christian crew, does Tiff want to join them?

54:58 Probably not. So that becomes like very complicated. It's going to be a fascinating end game. It's I'm glad that my predictions from a couple of weeks ago about the honor and integrity alliance taking over this game did not come true because I think that we're in for a very fun end game with a lot of possibilities of how this season can play out. I do want to just touch on quickly the Tribal Council. want to give props to Coach for reading the situation right and playing his Shot in the Dark similar to D. It didn't hit. He went I was really hoping that it would hit because I think it would have been very exciting if I want to talk about this. So if you're Chrissy and you know that if Coach tells you I'm going to be playing the Shot in the Dark, so he's basically resigned himself that And Chrissy's not dumb. Chrissy probably sees the writing on the wall. Why wouldn't Chrissy play her Shot in the Dark as well?

55:49 Just do a double shot. Yeah. >> as soon as soon as soon as you don't have the numbers, as soon as a Coach gives away his vote, you don't have the numbers. So you have to play the Shot in the Dark. You've got a one three chance. That's not too bad. Did Coach tell her? Did Coach That's the question. Or did Coach go rogue that he just cuz Coach does Coach, right? So I feel like he may have just done it without telling her. And have played the Shot in the Dark in that moment. Well, I mean you probably see the If you're Chrissy, do you ever think as soon as Rick Devens takes out his idol, do you do you think you seriously have a chance? Cuz even if you did think you had a chance, as soon as Rick you don't want to Like you I'd rather take a one in three one in three shots, right? Or one in six shot if she does it. But I think you need to give yourself every single out to stay in the stay in the game. And I think as soon as that happens and as soon as you know that you probably don't have the votes to rally.

56:43 >> Yeah. I mean you have to take the Shot in the Dark, I feel. I don't know why she did it. I'm sure maybe Jeff is saying why she didn't. This season is going to be the season where we see the most Shot in the Dark plays because we've already had two Tribal Councils since merge, two Shot in the Darks. What's the chances we see another Shot in the Dark come out in the next episode? What's the record? I feel like 47. Was it 47 or 46? Our D season. Yeah. 45, I think it was. I think because it Caleb won and I think there were some early on Shot in the Darks, too. Yeah. Was Caleb still the only player who's successfully played a Shot in the Dark? Cuz he's >> No, there was a lady There was a lady very early on. She played it When was that? I think season 48, I want to say. And she played it very early on. And then she won and nobody cared. Like [laughter] it's like I forgot who it was. [clears throat] I don't even remember who it was. But I think it's like Yeah, it feels like it was like someone like Sue or something.

57:35 But I'm not entirely sure who it was. 45 and 48. Christian got those. Yeah, he's got it. >> don't I forgot who it was. but it's not that important then. Yeah, exactly. Caleb and Mary. Okay. Caleb's still the legend. >> Yeah, I remember that now. Yeah. Actually Mary was good. I don't know why I didn't remember that one. But it I think it's cuz it didn't have any consequence, right? because she just going to end up getting voted off like soon anyway. Oh, really? So Scott says I heard on Tyson's podcast that it was confirmed that only one in a pair could play their Shot in the Dark. Well, that's dumb. That is dumb. You should have the ability to play two. And now Coach gets the opportunity to look good in this moment because people are like, "Oh, look at him. He had such a good read here. He knew he was on his way out." And Chrissy's got to be the one that's like me and you are questioning it. They should make it clear. And actually Yeah, exactly.

58:26 Now people going to think that Chrissy's dumb because she didn't play the Shot in the Dark. And it's like at least just make that clear. It's just one sentence when Jeff says the rules. Did he say that in the rules? I don't think he did. Yeah. No, I don't I don't remember him saying that in the rule either. but it's probably a lot to go through. But Yeah, so obviously he plays it. Rick Devens big moment. Gets up in Tribal Council, feels the heat is on, grabs that little idol right in front of everybody, sits down, and says that, you know, he's not going home tonight. He hasn't had time to find the idol. Big reactions from everybody there. But to me it felt like there was a lot of people skeptical about this being a true idol. So I think it was enough to throw people off Rick Devens if they were thinking about voting for him. So I think it did its job. But I don't know if he's really got safety going into the next round here, Andre. It feels like it was a one and done.

59:18 Most people are sort of saying, "Hey, they're playing this right. Can you show me the idol?" He's playing it right by saying, "No, knowledge is power." But it does seem like as most people there are kind of on the consensus that it's not a real idol. And Emily was very annoyed by this move according to Coach in his exit interview and she was telling people it's not a real idol. So, Emily friendly fire >> What would Emily know though? What would Emily know? >> what she does. So, I feel like Rick Devens is in trouble. Like this whole thing may have painted a bigger target on him moving forward. It made for good TV, but ultimately could be his demise. Well, this is where Rick works best. I feel like this episode was very Survivor South Africa coded, right? Cuz it's the Polita idol. It was the twin dual fates or whatever. like this is like a love letter to international Survivor I felt. So, I was I really enjoyed it both.

1:00:09 >> being acknowledged, Andre. Finally after many [laughter] years. Yeah, and it only took the players actually doing it, not Jeff. Because Jeff doesn't ever want to do that. He always wants people to rip apart the set. So, what this and I think actually I don't like that Jeff said that publicly. It's like, "Oh, we're never going to do that." Because that throws Rick under the bus and it's like, you want to be you know, promoting this. But Clearly people like Clearly people like Coach and Jonathan and you know, who else is there? Ozzy? They've been listening to Jeff's podcast, right? They Those Jonathan and Coach and Ozzy, they would have been listening to that. >> was on the He was a co-host of the podcast. I know. I'm being I'm teasing you. I'm teasing you. >> [laughter] >> I'm sure Cirie and people like that they're thinking it. Yeah, so I mean, essentially as soon as soon as Stephanie says, "Can we see the idol?" That's when it all falls apart, right?

1:01:01 And I think Rob Cesternino said that and I was thinking to myself if you're Rick, what could you possibly do to get away with not showing somebody the idol? I only thought of one solution for that. So, tell me what you think about this. So, I was thinking in order for you not to show anybody the idol, we all know that knowledge is power. Technically, knowledge is power is a is an actual like real Survivor twist. So, what you do, you immediately stand up you get the idol, then you take Christian aside and then you secretly either give it to him or keep yourself so nobody knows who has the idol. And then your excuse is we don't want somebody with knowledge is power to take this off me. So, you give it So, you pretend So, you shuffle it around. so, nobody knows who actually has it in the moment. And then that way nobody can actually say.

1:01:52 And then you can also come up with like, "Oh, you know, it's a real idol, of course. Why would I have done that, right? It's knowledge is power. I don't want to be stealing off me." I think it's the only way you can get around that. Which is why I like knowledge is power because it allows plays like this. It allows the what was it? With the Xander situation or the Like this is a really good because it allows this type of like lateral thinking where now you have a reason not to show the idol cuz oh, I don't have it, by the way. Sorry, Stephanie. I gave it to Christian. Or did I? [clears throat] So, I think that's much smarter. I think that's the only way you can get around it by making it seem like a legitimate. It's like you literally stand up, look around, take the idol, then be like, "Christian, I need to talk to you." And then you just act shady as shady as hell. Then people want to know what's going on. Yeah. Yeah, it's that's a really good really good call out. And I think that the knowledge is power has really messed up the game, really, when it comes to do you hold onto an idol?

1:02:47 Do you not hold onto an idol? My initial thoughts was maybe you sit there you grab it you walk up to Jeff and you say, "Jeff, hold onto this for me until after the vote. I will tell you if I'm playing it or not and if you can you know, at that point verify it. You make Jeff a part of the game. You don't have it on you and then they can't tell you to show it because Jeff's got it at the moment. No, I'm letting Jeff keep a hold of it. I want to see how the votes play out. I'll decide if I play it at that point." >> I think actually who did that? Ben Driebergen did that in his he said, "Can you please hold onto this? I'm playing it now." And then I think after that they changed the rules where you can't do that anymore. I think. Jeff doesn't want to be a part of the game. >> [laughter] >> Exactly. Yeah, because and it's also like then you're gaming production and I think they have a kind of like a rule about using production. Like it's very Big Brother, right? Where you can't use production as a strategy and it's kind of like a similar way. And I think the red flag was grow came up when I guess the yellow card came up when Tony did it.

1:03:44 So, this is kind of kind of like something that Tony would do, right? where he would go up and he would say, "Can you verify this for me first?" >> Yeah. and then and then play it. So, I Yeah, I don't know. I What could you do within the game? >> that was suspicious in the way that he found it was that he went to the exact rock move that Gordon in one hit. That was so quick, right? So, I was thinking should he have been like moving a couple of rocks around there? Be like, "I'm sure it's here. It's here somewhere, you know?" And then found it. So, he could like at least look like he didn't know exactly where it was, which was very suspicious. Unless the clue told you with a little map, "The third rock from the left, you need to move that one." Right? So, but again, great TV moment and we spoke about this earlier in the season. The reason that Rick Devens would be invited back on the show for a third time even if he doesn't win this season because he's going to bring things to the game.

1:04:34 He's going to throw stuff at the mud and see what sticks and this is what we want to see more of. I want to see more live tribal councils. I want to see more excitement in the game as well. do you think this damages his relationship with Aubry in any way? The fact that he didn't play it, he found it or anything like that? He was saying Aubry will be quite annoyed with him because of that. I personally don't think it probably will cuz she ended up being like there was enough chaos there for them not to go home and she's just going to be happy about that. Yeah, I after that episode we went back and we watched my partner hasn't seen Edge of Extinction. So, we show So, saw highlights of Edge of Extinction and how Rick Devens plays. Cuz she didn't know who Rick Devens were was, right? so, I'm trying to think what did what did Rick do? Like I mean, this is classic Rick. This is Rick did this up and down Edge of Extinction. I think that Rick said something in tribal council that was meant to be public.

1:05:30 And what he said was like, "I had to sneak it out. I can't We can't play it this He did that on purpose. It wasn't a very good lie. But I think that was not for Aubry. That was for Everybody else. >> everybody else. Yeah. So, I think he's going to go back and he's going to go back and tell Aubry it's like, "Look, it's obviously this is not Like he sees writing on wall. Obviously, this is not a real idol. This is just to protect us. I did this gambit. It paid off. Thank Say thank you, I guess. and then just he's going to go back doing Rick things. He's probably just going to like, I don't know, do some Tony stuff with the idol and >> Or does try to flirt around, yeah. He might go out there and go find a real idol. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is the whole idea. It's like what if Rick sort of comes up with some weird Jimmy Fallon idol lie and I mean >> Well, it's perfect.

1:06:22 It's perfect in the sense that now people may think Rick has the idol and they won't go searching for the idol that he's replanted, which gives him carte blanche to go out there and actually go and find this thing for himself. It's Yeah. Isn't that what was it? Nick Wilson did on his first season where he planted a fake idol so people could find it and then stop looking for the idol so he could continue to look for the idol if I remember correctly? >> He planted two. And it was Julie and the younger lady. I forgot her name. and then they both like went around like screaming that they had found the idol. They both played the idol. [laughter] Nobody else. I think it was like Chris and Rick had the real idols. So, it was kind of like It's a good season. Really good, yeah. I'm just glad that the old Rick is back. He's going to do some crazy stuff. I feel like we've gone through most of the main talking points unless there's something else you want to talk about. We probably need to get into the draft and look at where things are standing.

1:07:16 So, bit of a tough week for me and for the TNT community. Obviously, I lose my overall first round draft pick in Coach. But you know, Coach was worth his weight in gold. He gave me lots and lots of points. He even got caught in a lie this episode. So, you know, even on his way out he gave me some points with trying to lie to Tiffany that he didn't run the vote against her. and then we had obviously also here in TNT community, I think it was the second overall draft pick for TNT community, Chrissy leaving the game. So, overall four players left in my team, two players left in your team and TNT community at the moment the outright winner or leader, I should say, of this draft. I also have some points here somewhere that I need to quickly bring up. What's your thoughts? who's looking strongest at the moment?

1:08:07 >> [sighs] >> yeah, I hate to say it, but I think it's definitely like Ozzy. I think Ozzy is the clear standout for me just in terms of like he has the best combination of edits and gameplay as well. Like that we've shown him consistently from the very beginning. He actually turns out that he's not awful at strategy this season probably cuz she's been he's been coached by Cirie. I don't think Cirie can win just on a game level. I think on an edit level she can definitely win. But it's not a game level. I just I can't It's more of a hopeful thing for me. And Christian I've always had him as my winner's pick. But I think the today is the first week that I'm like I don't know because he's he was pretty quiet this episode. But maybe it was Rick's time to shine. I'm not entirely sure. Yeah. Yeah.

1:08:57 >> Say dark horses Yeah, dark horse is Jonathan Rizo. Emily can't win. Tiffany can't win. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if Cirie can win. But that's not on an edit point of view. That's more of a game point of view. Yeah. I think I think that there's still hope for [snorts] Cirie in the sense that you know, I'm hoping Ozzy has that killer instinct and he wants to win for himself because I can see a world where Ozzy like Cirie made make choice to link up with Ozzy. Ozzy and Cirie have this bond. He just drags it to the end and wins the final immunity and makes her safe. Pulls it and she wins the game. I see a pathway for that to happen. So, for that reason at this point if I had to rank from number one Let's rank number one Ozzy. I think it's the is the winner based on the edit and what we've seen so far. Number two, I'll still put Cirie in there.

1:09:48 I think things need to go wrong for her and I could see a world where Ozzy could drag her to the end. Rizo I'm less certain of as a winner. Like it's he's either number three or four for me. Like probably I he's in that alliance so you kind of want to put him in three and then I think we're seeing him because he's in that alliance and it's an consequential alliance. I think so, yeah. So, I would say I would say Christian and Jonathan are ahead of Rizo Tiffany. I think Jonathan's ahead of Rizo because the point is that Rizo has a good edit because she he's part of a consequential alliance. Whereas Jonathan is not part of consequential alliance, right? His alliance just got decimated. we're still seeing we're still seeing his logic. >> it. Yeah. Yeah, and he's getting to tell us why his game is changing and what he's doing differently this time.

1:10:39 So, yeah, it's very interesting. Okay. So, let's look at points. So, this week I lost Coach obviously not great for me minus five, but he did get caught in a lie which helped me a little bit because he got three points for that. So, minus two overall for him. we had Joe actually survive and win the immunity at three points. Stephanie survived, Ozzy survived, and Aubry survived. So, all up five points. This has been my lowest week for points. Welcome to the club. >> [laughter] >> Yes. then Christian and Devin survived for you one point each. I did also give you points for making a big move and that was Devens getting the idol. So, three points for that. You have five points this week as well. TNT community this week had Cirie, Chrissy, Tiffany, Jonathan, Rizo, and Emily all survive.

1:11:32 I'm sorry, no Chrissy didn't survive. We got to change that. It's from last week. Chrissy was voted out with minus five. So, Cirie, Tiffany, Jonathan, Rizo, and Emily survived. they had Cirie make a big move at three points as well. So, all up six points for them. It's actually been quite a it was a low week for all of us when it comes to points. So, didn't do too much changing in the overall points. We still have yourself at the end here pulling in 49 points. We've got the TNT community at second on 83 points and then I'm still leading at 104. I've got a bit of a buffer, but I am starting to lose some numbers. So, this could go south for me very quickly. for me on a personal note, I've really got to hope that Ozzy does pull this thing through because that would probably be my best outcome to win the season at this stage.

1:12:23 For you best case, you've still got both Rick, Devin, and Christian. I don't think Christian is completely out yet, but if we don't see Christian becoming a bit more of the narrator or having more agency this following week, Andre, that would be a sign for me that things are going bad. This would be the third episode in a row where he's kind of lost a lot of that agency and it does not >> my question is my question is can Rick or Aubry still win? Can either do they either have like a outside chance? I don't think personally I don't think Rick is winning this season. I just think he's the agent of chaos this season. that's my opinion. I just don't see it, but with Aubry she's had an interesting edit from the beginning. I think she still has like a shot in the dark because even this episode there was this whole thing about I've played this game so many times people still underestimate me.

1:13:16 Like, you know, but it's interesting because cuz like The biggest thing I'll ask you is are you having fun seeing Aubry play this season? Cuz it just feels like she's in pain God. She speaks to the camera. She's hating life and it's and it's like I think an Aubry win would be worst case scenario right now. I don't want somebody to win the season that just absolutely was miserable out there the whole time. Yeah, would you not prefer to see someone like Shan and just be completely like evil or something? Like that would be more fun for the viewer. Yeah. Yeah, like I've just not enjoyed her season. Like it's just she feels it sounds like she's tortured out there, you know? but yeah, I think TNT community in with a really solid shot here because I would say Cirie definitely the frontrunner in that team. I can see a Jonathan win still. I don't know how it's going to happen. It might have to be a Mike Holloway win until the end type of win.

1:14:06 And I can still see a Rizo win as well potentially. Like I wouldn't count him out completely. He's in the top five for me at this stage. So, very solid team. I'm less >> can see Jonathan winning as well is if he if he gloms onto the Devin, Christian, and Emily alliance. They run it to final five or something and then he wins the final two immunities and he goes to the end with like a Emily and like a Tiffany or something like that. >> [snorts] >> Yeah, that's true. Let's see what people are saying here in the comments. Will is saying yay, we have more people. You do. You do. Danica is saying I'd like to see either Cirie, Ozzy, or Rizo make the final five before they turn on each other. I agree. It's such a wholesome alliance. I definitely want to see them go as deep as we possibly can this season. Scott is saying I think Rizo is ruthless enough and smart enough to take out both Ozzy and Cirie before the end.

1:14:57 I think so as well. I think if there is a going to be a downfall in that alliance, Andre, I just think Ozzy is blindly loyal to a certain degree when it comes to Cirie. >> I think he's I think he's going to cut her. I think he's going to cut her. That would be the most That's my prediction. I think Yeah, I think that's like I'm the new Ozzy. I'm going to take Cirie as far as I can take her, but I'm going to have to cut her. This is going to might be the way that I win. This is the only time that I get an opportunity to win. And if Ozzy wins >> [snorts] >> Phew. Conversations changes around Ozzy. Like we've said it before. Like he's peo- people are going to have to start talking about Ozzy in the same breath as like a Boston Rob. They've played the amount of amount of seasons. Hey? Mount Rushmore opportunity? Who knows? >> I think he's he well Boston Rob's on Mount Rushmore. Ozzy's played as many seasons as but he's just not as lovable as Boston Rob.

1:15:49 I don't think. I think there's more people who love the story of Boston Rob and the love story, you know, him getting finally up that mountain doing it for his family. Like I just don't think he's as likable. Yeah, I don't know. Like I think because I've been I've seen Boston Rob since his very first season. I thought I wasn't a big fan [laughter] of him very early on so I can't get over that. but then again Ozzy was pretty insufferable a lot of his seasons, too. So. Yeah. at least TNT have more people. Scott says I agree and he'll do it with compliments about how much they are leg- legends to him which is good for us. I still can't wait I still want Cirie to win, but I fear she'll get screwed again. I don't see Aubry getting the vote jury vote over for her. That's true. Like I don't I just Aubry just doesn't seem like she's liking it. I don't know who's going to vote >> actually. She might get to the end, but I think people will actually take her to the end.

1:16:42 Like imagine if like Christians Christian Devin takes her to the end. She I don't think she's going to get a vote, is she? Yeah. Danica is saying Christian Devin is having the most fun. Second Rizo fanboying. Ozzy the tranquilness of the environment and Cirie being Cirie. Everyone else seems stressed. That's true. Those are the people that are that are thriving out there at the moment. but that is it here for this week, Andre. I don't think there's anything else we need to discuss. excited to see what's going to happen next week. Excited to jump back on the podcast. It's been a season that I've enjoyed. I still enjoy it at the moment. and Andre, finally you can focus fully on Survivor US because Australian Survivor is also now finished. So, you >> to see that. That was a good That was a good final week actually. It's very old school, you know? We got to see David on bring the votes to Sydney on a motorcycle. Very I saw I saw a little clip of that on socials.

1:17:34 So, yeah, I got spoiled in the end, Andre. I was like, "Oh, be spoiler free. I won't see I finally got spoiled." So, now I know what's going to happen. So, I'll have to decide if I've got the time to watch it later on. I'll probably give it a go. I just want to know how bad >> flight or something. Sorry? Maybe queue it up for a flight or something. Yeah, for sure. For sure. but all right. Thanks everybody for coming out and joining in on the conversation here for this week. it was a lot of fun having you here. We'll be back next week. For now, grab your torches, head back to camp, and we will see you guys next week. Bye. Bye.