Survivor Vanuatu Review

0:00 And welcome back to day nine of my Survivor 46 and 46 Marathon Survivor vanon watch who just wrapped up about five minutes ago Chris you know swore up and down they had to bleep out most of it Jeff was very [ __ ] the reunions currently going on and Jeff is still being very [ __ ] and we're going to get to all of that in a second today we're joined by to host of Kaleidoscope one of my favorite orgs that I've ever played and Julia back from what last whatever when we did Survivor Africa so toer we'll start with you because this is your first time when you first watched Survivor vanatu because this is this is going to be like the running thing tonight of vanatu is the most underrated season in my opinion and I feel like a lot of people starting to come on to that what were your thoughts well my first initial thoughts was they finally casted a guy named Chris toer is short for Christopher they finally casted a guy named Chris and he cannot get across the balance beam and he is about to be the first person voted out of the show and then lo and behold he would go from not

1:21 Being able to get AR across the balance beam which maybe a conspiracy to then winning the season by pulling out the most Underdog come from behind Victory I think of any series imaginable I think it was very unplausible unpredictable I actually when I watched it live I had gone on a cruise the Leanne episode aired I believe during Thanksgiving of 200 three four 2004 and I was on a cruise and wasn't able to watch the episode because this was back in the day when you like you know didn't have the ability to do so and I just assumed it was going to be Chris that was going and watched the previous Leons and saw that it was Leanne and was just completely thrown off for the rest of the series and was super excited now in hindsight as I have grown older to watching it I have come to thoroughly appreciate the gameplay that Chris has put in I think he is he one of the more he does not get his flowers enough as a winner and even though this season lacks a lot in the beginning because they threw in 18 players with giving without really giving a lot of players

2:41 Any airtime and personality whatsoever to then the second half of the Season being filled with nothing but personality and a lot of like vengeful bitterness which is like we'll get to that what is my ini thoughts Julie you were one of the first people when I did 42 and 42 you were one of the people that were like coach vanatu is underrated this that and the other I was like okay yeah like it's vanatu up until two years ago vanatu was in my 30s rankwise like it just wasn't it was just a season that was there I didn't hate it or anything but like you know it was it was fine and even Chris I always just saw as like a person of circumstance my thoughts have changed but like I said Julia you were the one so what because you were one of the people that basically you're a b watu hipster what about van wat 2 from when you first watched was like okay no this is just a good season period like I don't need time to tell me that it's changed yeah I like vanatu before it was cool you know one hopped on the bandwagon after I liked it before it was cool but before I get going I just I want to let you know that you're not going to be getting my vote tonight okay but I still really hope that after

4:01 Podcast we can be anyway I watch R rivor and I said the same thing during Africa I love the strategy I love the manipulation the social aspect but I when I tend to notice in the season Survivor that stick with me a lot are the characters and I think Vanuatu has some great characters some alltime characters Rory one of my favorite Rory we'll go down the Rory path one of my of all time the icon that he is I think there's so much to love and although my hot take is I think Chris gets a little bit too much credit for the game he plays I think overall that it's a good season a lot more fluid than I think people remember it for and then just a great character study no this is of the first nine Seasons this is the most fluid a season has been I would say outside of maybe

5:22 Amazon like this I would say that this is the most and it's the most fluid that we're going to get until maybe gabone like it like I feel like there's a long Gap where I understand people don't like pagonging and like the none of these Seasons that we're ready to go into are straight up pagonging except for no palao is not pagonging so none of these Seasons that we're ready to go into are straight up pagonging but like they're still like steam rolls the a lot of these seasons are steam rolls leading into gabone where itus all over the place because most of people just are cartoon characters but we'll get there next week I think that this game this season was a lot more fluid and I think we're gonna we're GNA go to the beginning of the season and I said this when I did Amazon is my favorite my oh first or second favorite depending on the day favorite men's versus women's season and it's between this and Van that and bow watatu and this time around I would say that I probably have van watu as my favorite men's versus women's season because it's not it's there's the overarching yes there are men and women but like at the at the main point of it is okay there's this Women's Alliance that actually plans on sticking together

6:42 Unlike in Amazon these people plan on sticking together despite the fact they all hate each other and there's this one person who picks up one at the first episode his first confessional is saying oh yeah you know I'm not going to say the whole thing but basically pointing out why it's easier to go with men and than with women and blah and when he ends up when he puts himself in the situation where it's him and the women at that point I mean once again you know it's having the benefit of hindsight it's very easy to see how he does it and I will say that every game that I have ever every on line game that I've ever played in I'm either trying to emulate Earl Cole or Chris because both of those two like I feel like they played the best winning games among newbies that actually we'll get to Fe but Chris was not playing with the One World cast and Chris was not playing with the Borneo cast the Borneo cast didn't know how to play because the game had never happened before the One World cast was basically just Kim and Troy xan and then a bunch of people that did know what survivor was I think because Chris was

8:02 Out there with people that knew what the game was and was still able to pinpoint hey I can lose this Challenge and it not mean anything because I have my people I'm not GNA get voted out for because I have my folks go ahead no again like I said I think he gets a little bit too much credit for that because okay so watch yeah I'm going you're watching it's not even that originally comes up really with the idea of doing this whole flip he's resigned to voting out Eliza and calling it a day he gets way too much credit in that move there which was pivotal to changing the game in his benefit which it worked out better for him than it did anyone else but still getes way too much credit for that and he was the one who put himself in that situation to be down in the numbers anyway when he could have come in and had a much easier path I disagree but I will let toer go toer I feel like he just understood that twia was Money Motivated twia was more about doing what was best for her

9:22 Than she was about playing for these women and so for him to kind of have the ability to have the foresight to sus out like okay I can outmaneuver myself into a position he sort of onion before onioning was a thing so he had this ability to okay he gets the they called them the like flab five at the time or whatever where it was like with all of the older men with no personalities that keep voting out all the younger hot guys as John krey would say he then sees somebody in twia who he ends up latching on to and he knows he has the twia and the Scout of it all and then has that bond with Eliza and Julia and I think he chose the better pair I think he loses in the end to either Eliza or Julia and he knew that he knew that was going to happen and he kept feeding fuel to that fire of twia from things that I've heard after the show of like Chris is told Twi like yeah keep that up EG egging on twila's personality faults that's that's absolutely true and something that he consciously did like going into FTC but I'm talking about like he says it's so much easier to manipulate the men but

10:42 Then puts himself into this situation where he's down in those numbers and basically puts it to chance of like oh I guess I'm going home and then he's like oh my God they're not gonna vote me out th and it's this comment because when I said earlier oh yeah whenever I play orgs I try to emulate one or the other with Chris both of you have played in games with me and I've always said going into a swap I would rather get swapped in the worst minority situation possible because at that point I trust Survivor fans and what survivor fans are going to try to do is try to make crazy moves and flip on each other because they feel obligated to do so and in Chris's situation it's like I trust these women are to try to do something crazy because they don't like each other so all I have to do is just put myself in a situation where okay I'm going to vote out Sarge and I'm gonna make up this lie and say oh yeah Sarge told me to do it but like you know I didn't I didn't want to but I knowing full well that's going to make him look more appealing he has a confession where he says yeah you play to our heart they're going to keep you along long enough and so then Chad goes and once again all he has to do is vote Eliza and say hey they told me to do it and now you're in a situation where you are the last person left

12:02 And like everything is telling you everything that episode is the family visit episode Chris is going home because that's the way that it has to go because we've been trained for eight seasons to know that an alliance is just going to steamroll their way and then turn on each other and Chris put himself in the worst possible situation knowing full well this is the perfect time for people to start turning on each other and I feel like he kind of waited until Twilight and Scout came to him and said hey you know what why don't we do this instead and he's like yeah sure yeah and they're like and then immediately he's like I can get Eliza and he does he says go straight to Eliza and he says hey they're trying to screw you here and I had this conversation with people in games it was so funny watching it this time around it's like I don't know how I could convince you that I am not lying to you but we need to go this way because they are going to go after you and then they do and then from there now you have Scout and Twilight on your side you have Eliza on your side because you know you just saved her ass you've got Julie because you and Julie have this brother sister thing my god and the only person that is gonna be pissed off at you is Amy but Amy is gonna be more pissed off at everybody else for flipping on the Women's Alliance and I think that's like I tweeted this out earlier it's like this

13:22 This merge tribe you could build a villain's tribe just based off of this merge trap because there really no heroes in this season I would say the closest one would probably be like Chad and I actually really like Chad this time around but for the most part everyone just hates each other and everyone's doing everything out of spite and Chris is you know top villain because he's just sitting there letting it happen he's sitting in the hammock he's letting Twila the way that scene is shot is so funny because he's talking to Eliza and from his Viewpoint Twilight is definitely watching them talk the camera pants at Twilight but like from where Chris is laying he can very much clearly see Twilight you know the it's shot so that it's a surprise but I'm sorry that was a bit of a rant there but I said this during Amazon and I want to get toer I'll get your opinion first I feel like Richard Hatch Rob Cino and Chris are the three people among the first 10 seasons of this show that really understood what the game was about like what you needed to do to get to the end would you agree with that statement or do you feel like there are other people in that first 10

14:42 Seasons do you disagree you know what are your thoughts on that I agree I think that Chris came in and I think that Chris understood the assignment now I do think that Chris benefits from having players that you know such as Amy who if Amy could have toned down the arrogance just a little bit I think Amy could have been a little bit more personable and not pushed people away to Chris and I know that's I don't know if that's a hot take or not but I do think that there was a lot of like things that Amy did that turned people off but when to regarding to your statement yeah Chris definitely came in understood the assignment and was there to play the game and to play these people was on a quote you left out Brian he was on a business trip too I think Brian was on a business trip okay yeah and I think that's where these first 10 seasons people that came in knowing I'm here to play a game everybody else is here to be on TV that was the method to success yeah Julia and I have one more to add to that my most underrated strategist of all time I think he delivered a line that completely capsulator as we know it

16:02 And this is a game for a million dollars you don't take every opportunity given to you're a fool and that's Johnny Fairplay came in understood the strategy came in with a knew what he wanted to do did it with Flare and Pizzaz but understood the game and understood people in the game no I won't I won't disagree with that I think because for me just this time around the fact that I can pinpoint okay Rich could do it because of this Cino could do it because of this and Chris could do it with fair play I gave I gave a lot of praise to two days ago as like a very underrated strategist because everyone remembers the dead Grandma thing and kind of just leaves it at that but like fair play was a very good strategist Chris like just from the very first episode he is saying hey I'm fine I don't have to worry about this I'm not worried I'm not worried because I trust I trust this and I that oh sorry oh okay I was so confused but to the question yes this vanatu for me ranked higher than the Amazon for me I feel like the cast from Top not top to bottom from top to

17:24 Rory are iconic and different ways I feel like the game play is more fluid it's not just Rob going back and forth I feel like there's a lot of people this season that are you know trying to find Twilight is someone asked me this yesterday is Rob one of the best Rob marianao one of the best second placers ever and I said yes and I think Twilight is also on that list because Twilight was doing a lot this season scout is underrated because Scout is the one that's coming up with half of these Scout Twilight plans just overall the game playay specifically on the women's side of things to the point where other people have come out and said that it was actually Leanne that was in charge of the women and that Amy got the edit as the as the winner or the leader of it they're interviewing Brooke right now during the Brooke existed yeah exactly coach yeah I just Vani was just a lot more fun to just watch the last two times I've done it and I don't hate Amazon is one of my once again one of my favorites but vanatu just it has and I think I'm not

18:44 One of these compelling winner people but it does it does have a compelling winner and a has a compelling final too Chris starts off like his first speech like to start off is not the best and I think he read what people were how people reacting to it and then he turned on the Waterworks he T turned on the apologies knowing full well I just told Scout hey don't take don't put up with their [ __ ] and she didn't and I support her not putting up with their [ __ ] because those people were pissed off and we will get to that well Julia you look like you want to say something yeah I do I like I want to say a lot of things I'm very opinionated Qui quick touching on this question I think Amazon is something I love Amazon is one my favorite I think it's something that you love more when you're younger because of like the jokes and like the sex factor and all of that but once you like watch Survivor a couple times are looking for more of the story The like the compelling characters the storylines things like that's why on your second your Third Watch through vanatu shines out just a little bit more at least in my eyes ch I think that Vanuatu ages better because of the archetypes that

20:04 They went for I think that Amazon I mean there's a lot of you know twigs and sticks you know the they casted the you know models and like they went for which van watatu is guilty of too but they voted the models out at the beginning of the season they put them all on the maale tribe this year no but one right there yeah for Amazon I think that yeah it was a very much so the a different era of Battle of the Sexes that felt borderline chauvinistic and I think it does not hold up as well today because it is very clearly edited through a men's lens whereas I think that vanatu featured a lot more stronger personalities as opposed to your typical female archetypes and I think that is why Vanuatu as a character driven season holds higher than Amazon and if it wasn't for Rob Cino who is the king of all strategist for his time Amazon does not hold up at all exact and I said that the other day I felt like I was going through the motions when I was watching Amazon like and that's and I don't mean that as a bad thing it just felt like okay yeah it's a it's the Rob season

21:24 It's the Rob season and once you've gotten to the second or thir time of watching that season the allore comes away because it's like okay yeah it's Rob doing Rob things with this season there is a compelling storyline of Chris versus the women and watching the women eat themselves to the point where okay yeah I don't he has a confessional where he says I don't even have to do anything because these people hate each other so much and I that stood out to me so much more this time around because the last time I did this I was just getting into playing you know these online games or whatever and then you know two years later it's like yeah people just people feel obligated to do crazy stuff when everything is telling them hey no matter how much we don't like each other if we have this plan in place let's just do it and let the best person win of this group because if we screw around and we let this guy more around he could screw around and get to the end which he does and he at that and you know and he's learning about these people as he goes along and he knows that Twilight has a short fuse and he knows that 12 Twilight hey don't let these people punk you because you know that know the respect thing and I just I

22:44 I feel like I have an obligation not I won't say obligation but Earl and beia will always be my two favorite winners if Chris should be Chris should be my favorite winner he's not he's third but I he's my favorite narrator of all time because every time he had a confessional this season it's like yep he's right yep he's right yeah everything he's saying is accurate yes Julia and it's accurate but it's not as overbearing as like Rob cesternino in the Amazon like that is the it's the same thing like when you're gon to watch Redemption Island like when you're going to watch Samoa when it's so heavily one person it the fatigue really hits on those rewatches but we've talked about so many different characters so many different strong characters and personalities that he can be this really great order of the game that we check back in with to like get that like funny quit to like really see what's happening but we're still getting a bunch of different perspectives and again that's a big reason why it does hold up yeah and we're going to leave Chris alone for a little bit but we're going to get back to when we get to the final tribal part of this but honestly just every time I've watched this

24:05 This season in particular since the first time I watched it just keeps getting better I even tweeted it out yesterday like oh yeah vanatu got into my top 10 last time I did this well end up in my top five I still don't think it'll end up in my top five this time around it could but like it is so good and it's what it has going for it is so I'll compare to like caram moan so caram has a very [ __ ] pre-merge where most of those people are forgettable and I couldn't tell you most of their names I know Shamar and like there was a hope somewhere in there and Franchesca obviously with this season I called them the four generic white guys the models as toer referenced earlier there's the four generic white guys Dolly was Dolly like dolly was fine whatever would say who was Dolly who's Dolly I think Lisa was in there Bubba like it yeah the premerge is not you know they're not all-timers ironically this is just a weird Flex me and toer played the game recently where we had to find a basically an obscure Survivor player and let another tribe try to guess who it was and one

25:25 Of our survivor players was Mia from this season so fun facts but the prear is not it's not the best but you start seeing the gra like everything being built like they build to the climax and I think the climax is when Chris votes for Sarge because of the way they film it where it's like hey I'm doing this you know for us and the show starge and it's like okay cool like I get that I stand trying to vote with a majority to save your ass next time let's go back a little bit how do we like the pre merge how do we like the pre merge I like what happened in Pre merge strategy-wise obviously this is still only their second time doing 18 people and this is their first time doing 18 new people quits well 18 new people so still trying to find that balance with the editing it's still something that like Survivor struggles with for years and years and years to come but obviously don't get a lot of those premor characters highlighted

26:45 As would like but the strategy that's happening and the talks that are happening even between like these pre- merg characters like people are playing people came to play whether they went out first or they went out second to last like every everyone came to play and it was a very fluid premerge one of the most fluid Prem merges up to this point I would say I agree I think I agree I feel that so like the with the premiere does it not feel like and I've never heard one way or the other but does it not felt like they filmed it thinking that they had two hour Premiere or a 90 minute Premiere because they spent a lot of time on the marooning and the whole like climbing to get the coconut and all of that stuff just to immediately have to go to a challenge and then to Tribal Council so like we really at the beginning did not get to know anybody except for Chris because he couldn't get across the balance beam and then we rushed right into a double oh no I'm just I'm supporting the comment talking and then Rush right into a double where like yeah if it wasn't for Mia getting loud and having a fight we probably would have no idea

28:06 Who Mia is the women's was interesting because we got a split vote right away and I think that's something that is not typical we you know you don't get like a five4 vote at the beginning of a season of I yeah has there been a first vote so far that has been that divided of no Boro no Australia no Africa no marus no I mean marus not completely divided but it's split it's split not this it's not this is both yeah there are clear sides yeah there are clear sides here yeah both tribes have clear split vote situations that take place and then we go into a double and so because that energy is wasted on a double we don't get to know the who what where and wise of those splits and then we have the most we have that Middle episode which is always so weird to me where Brady got I don't know it's just a weird Middle episode we should have just gone into the swap but we have the most convoluted swap I think we have ever had or will have in Survivor history to the point where they just said screw it we're going random from now on like what like I it just so much extra stuff took so much extra time that we didn't get to know

29:26 Really any of the characters that were voted out pre merge and I think it was because they didn't have anything fun to offer and they also didn't have like there was bigger stories to tell and they saved it for the payoff later yeah Eliza doesn't get much screen time pre merge and I realized that during I think one of the swap episodes and they show Eliza during a challenge I'm like wow I haven't seen her in a bit which is weird because in my head Eliza is a main character this season I agree I do agree with you did the prear did feel kind of just there but like but like I said earlier I feel like you said I feel like they're trying to build to that next step and that next step and we see that a lot with a lot of Seasons moving forward where I won't say they neglect the Prem merge but it's like okay no we have to start getting ready for what's actually going to happen so let's you know let's neglect some of these people you know right now I keep referring to the four generic white guys on the men's tribe because as even though I know their names today if you were to ask me their names in five days I won't be able to tell you because I don't remember jul that's a problem for

30:46 Like I said a bunch of seasons to come I'll be back in a couple days to do Guatemala I consider myself a surv I consider myself someone who knows a lot if you ask me Julia you're doing this podcast in a couple days can you name me the first like three or four boots of Guatemala say there's old white guy there's old white guy an old Jim that's it yeah that's because he's first boot you're not gonna know the brunette that gets voted out third I that's what I'm saying the person that tells Jud he has ADD I don't remember her name Margaret you have ADD in there like same thing with palao like I can't name half of these [ __ ] generic white guy that doesn't get picked on a tribe I don't remember him Jonathan come on I'm sure his name is Jonathan we'll find out in a little bit Brian we all We're Not Gonna not thank Jesus I the question okay so I thought Eliza was so hypocritical Eliza changed her mind and voted for Dolly but Eliza got mad when Lisa switched her vote to Mia th this season falls into the allstars

32:06 Trap I guess of people being hypocritical but the reason I put this one so much higher is because all stars they went to the game thinking that they were friends I mean they were friends but they went to the game planning to play friend bber and realize that Rob and other folks were not playing friend vior and you know were pissed off at that here I think these people just you know were just regular game annoyed when bad things would happen to them even though they were Hypocrites because they would do the exact same thing and I think Twilight brings that up twilight or Chris bring it up during final tribal or it's like you all are doing the exact same thing you're just pissed off that we did it and we're sitting here and I get that you know we as fan we as super fans we get that you know we understand that you know people can preach this honor and integrity thing till the cows come home whatever but like everyone is out there wheeling and dealing everyone out there is lying at some point or another no one can actually sit there and say oh I've never lied because that's not true you can't sit there and say that it's not and actually believe it Eliza says that at final four she when Twilight catches her and Chris talking she's I haven't lied once it's like that's a lie

33:28 Even though we're not being shown everything that can't be true you can't make it that far without being able without lying at least at some point so I to answer that question I don't know where's the question in that hypocritical in that situation yeah like I but I don't like just because I'm calling her a hypocrite does not mean that I'm like talking down or it just means you're was a hypocrite in this situation but everyone's a hypocrite when they play this game because everyone sits in their high horse if they get voted out before the people that did it better get voted out if that makes sense yeah that's the name of the game it was like a caddy like when you're watching all stars it gets gross like it gets personal and it gets gross and personal here but you feel like you're watching like Mean Girls not like a personal tragedy like you're seeing these people argue and you're like oh this is so high school like calling you're like a deceptive lying [ __ ] and you're like laughing at it you're not cringing like you are when going off on Boston Rob in the was Banna the circus don't remember I don't remember this person Banna

34:48 Was the brunette I told you that she was voted out there but was there was a circus performer over that season right or like something like that or like a mime or a magician like we'll figure out we'll figure out in a couple days I think there's something to the fact though that it's a sanctimoniousness right like Chris falls into sort of like not to Crossover with big brother but like that Dr will category of where like it's like I am playing the game and I'm gonna [ __ ] you I'm gonna lie and I feel like he's open sort of about that not directly but sort of indirectly in just his generic demeanor and personality right you're like you know it like Scout calls it out of like you're in [ __ ] up to your ears we just all know you're bullshitting but because you know they're bullshitting it's like you feel you have that manipulation and control over them because you see them right whereas with twia it's I'm swearing on my son I'm an honorable woman I only go out there and do the honorable thing and I don't lie and I tell it like it is and I'm gonna tell you off which means I can't lie and so people see that and it's like okay I know he was going to [ __ ] me and he did I trusted she wasn't going to [ __ ] me and she did and that's where I think that kind of like comes into

36:08 Play like it like us as or well maybe not the two of you but like I know how much people not seeing you as a bullshitter even though you are can affect you know like well and that's and that's let's talk about Twilight because especially watching this time and the last few times I've watched this season I felt for her so much during final tribal who would I have voted for I'm sure someone will bring it up at this point I probably would have voted for Chris but I would have felt so horrible for Twilight just because people were so stuck on this whole swearing on her son thing and I think it's because I mean if you listen to the accents of most people from this season you can see why a lot of people took that personally I don't care and she even has a confessional where she after she does it she was like yeah and hopefully God forgives me or whatever but like million dollars and my son doesn't care my son won't care and all that I don't care like that would not have bothered me at all if she had done that and then lied about it's like and the fact that Amy and Eliz and all these people specifically and not to say that they're less religious than sares but sge has an accent so I'm assuming that sge is more religious than the two of them are the fact that they were

37:28 Holding that over her head as well as sergeant I felt horrible for her because and she that's like her main storyline of the final tribal is she has to continuously bring that up and it's continuously brought up and Sarge sitting there saying oh you've damned your son's Soul To Hell forever and it's like all right dude feel I feel like he might be taking the [ __ ] a little too seriously do we feel like first I guess we'll just summarize it all how do we feel about Twila this season I love Twila I think twila's great I think she's a great character it's an absolute shame she never came back absolute shame I think she would have been a great female villain and Heroes versus Villains I think she was still ahead of her time at the time when it came to strategy Morgan was a magician assistant what do we know who was Morgan circus performer I knew something he was something I think the stuff with twia came from like confirmation bias of we said they're don't think God no keep on talking I'm if I point to a comment

38:48 Don't pay attention I'm just pointing to a comment I agree with you it came from like confirmation bias because it's exactly like you said everyone knows Chris is gonna lie he's going to cheat he's gonna scheme he's going to do whatever that's why it doesn't hurt as much but when it's the person you never expect that ends up not only being the one to betray you but like dupe you to make you like for the fool it goes okay now let me look for things that reinforce that idea in my head and I that's was like the biggest thing to pull from especially because like obviously Twila comes from a Midwest like a lower income not very well educated and she couldn't type oh my God that got me this time oh my goodness I almost cried it 2004 obviously like that's true like family is like a really value to her so when this person you don't expect lies and cheats and beats you and you're mad about it you're going to find like

40:08 Something they really care about something that's like Central to their character and used it to confirm the biases you have in your head and it sucked and it was really unfortunate because we saw it happened sorry like 20 Seasons later and Trish voted for Tony there so but see I think that's the difference is I wish that twia would have owned it a little bit more because she sat there and she said no it wasn't worth it right like she should have said yeah well one she was forced to right like they made her like lie on her son in the Bible and all of that stuff like you what is she supposed to say yo yes I am planning on voting you off so let's go ahead and turn around vote me off like no like she had no choice she had to vote to lie on her son's name and yes if it meant that she was going to make it to the end it would have absolutely have been worth it to have lied on her son's name because she needs a million dollars you know and that's the bottom line she the money was that important to her and I think at the time you know I think there was a lot more value given to the money that you probably could have pushed that agenda more but again

41:28 You're not knowing you don't know what the jury is going to present to you and maybe she did or maybe she didn't she probably was very caught off guard with how this ended up being like the one thing like starge wasn't even there for the lying on the sun was he was just like he wasn't he wasn't even there right he was just like probably went back and said oh yeah Twilight did this yeah so like you end up being like you know forced into a situation where you're like this is the thing that everybody's writing on this tribal like what how do I even G dig myself out of this because it's the one thing I didn't account for that everybody's calling me out on yeah and S like and that's the thing is like I said earlier you know I was kind of joking when I said oh yeah sge seems more religious than Amy and Eliza because of the accent whatever like SS doeses actually just say oh yeah my beliefs and blah you've damned your son's soul to hell and everything it's like that bothered me more than any other jury speech this season specifically because he's still sitting

42:49 There saying oh yeah I'm probably gonna vote for you anyway and it's like okay if that like that if you were that angry and you still say you're going to vote what exactly did Chris say outside of I still want to be friends with you out of the game like if you're putting more stock into Chris saying oh yeah I would still like to be friends with you on the game then Twilight you know and she's apologetic for it and I do believe her I like she continues to say I'm sorry that I did this I'm sorry that I swore on this and I know Julia brought it up earlier like Tony says it was worth it many seasons later Twilight had done this on a season with people with less funky accents she probably wins because people put so much stock into that one moment and it's very frustrating yes Sarge destroy Sarge destroys Twilight and it's bothersome it's so uncomfortable to watch and I just watched all star yesterday and that [ __ ] was very uncomfortable and watching his speech and you know Amy votes for Twilight in the end so like I'll give her you know a pass Eliza whatever like Eliza's gonna she was what like 22 23 at the time like she was she was relatively young I can understand why she'd be pissed

44:09 Off at both of them but I just felt horrible for and I guess Jeff felt horrible for her because he shits on Chris the entire reunion and Praises twia Twilight is a very underrated player and a very underrated run her up because I think her sitting next to a lot of even finalists from these first nine Seasons potentially wins in a season where in Seasons where she's not you know if she plays on the Mar's one and she sits next to the Leo Ori I think she probably wins absolutely yeah Africa I think there's a chance that she wins you know there's a but we'll leave that alone because we've only talked about the finalist so far and we're 45 minutes in I want to talk about the main character of the Prem merge and the first episode of the merge Rory can't Rory as an adult I there are three people in the season that I relate to the most Twila Chris and Rory and when Rory just everything Rory does whether I agree with it or not he even when he's talking about how Mia is classless during the One Challenge is like okay you're wrong but like

45:29 I love you anyway so it's fine Rory very iconic merge boot I would say of the first nine Seasons you can only compare him to Boston Rob Andrew Savage and maybe Sheen as far as merge boots what are her thoughts on Rory I love when Rory sits down and says I refuse to lift another finger around this Camp if y'all are just gonna vote me out and I think it worked I think it worked they voted out Lisa kefir so I don't know if that like causation is necessarily correlation but or correlation is necessarily causation but yeah I to me it's iconic everything Rory does he's just so unabashedly himself and you have to love a man for that he's incred he is Inc so funny he's so funny again would Rory have played well in a second time absolutely not Rory is not a good Survivor player but God you could put Rory on my screen as many times as you want and I would be happy I'd

46:49 Be happy yeah that oh that's why I said the merge tribe and even the J the merg tribe of this season you could turn into a villain's tribe and I would watch every episode of it because they are just every single one of them you know okay let's remove Chad because I would I would say Chad's probably not a villain in this group and we'll even take scout out so you got eight people who are in some aspect a villain you know a Survivor villain and I feel like Rory is the one that's just like the character Rory is the character of the season of oh yeah let's just let's just put him on camera let's just let him talk and let's just see what he says and him saying oh yeah I will burn this Camp to the ground and only for them to get their family letters and say oh my wife talked me out of this it's like wow thank God that happened I don't know what you would have done in that situation full Butch you would have gone full Butch up in there yeah Rory is so great from like and he's someone that doesn't outstay his well and there's a lot of merge boots in these first 10 seasons that don't outstay their welcome and I think that Rory is up there with the Andrew Savage and the Boston robs of it of yeah if we

48:09 Had Rory moving forward I feel like it would have gotten more mess I feel like it would have gotten all star messy and Allstar messy is not fun Vana watu Messi is a very fun ride until final tribal where there's a lot of Tears even Jeff says oh yeah it's been a very emotional night yeah it [ __ ] has but if we had Rory continue throughout the merge I don't I don't see the merge going very well and we're gonna get to that later on but like I wouldn't have hated seeing Rory play in a returning season between eight or nine and 21 I think that would have been fun I don't think he was game would have changed like you said but like he was a he was a fun character in this season very under everything that deals with Batu was underrated very underrated character in Rory very underrated winner in Chris very underrated season in vanu underrated runnerup and twia the women's the Lions gonna get I did want to say about Rory most robbed prer not in the that he is the robbed prej juror but we are

49:29 Robbed from Rory on the jury Chad and Rory that's how that should have been because Rory would have given us content Rory I couldn't imagin Rory face on the jury like we get we get our first introduction to Eliza face on the jury this season Rory face would have been chef's kiss the Women's Alliance now we're GNA get we're going to get semblances of women's alliances you know moving you know ultimately reaching its peak I guess in Micronesia I feel like the answer is there but like why doesn't it work here why do you think they could not just get through one more vote even though they hate each other why don't we think we can't they couldn't just get through one more vote and just say hey you know what I understand we all hate each other but let's just do this and hate each other and vote each other out afterwards I think it just came down to arrogance I think a really great comparison for Amy is female Lex they have a lot of the same qualities they

50:49 Do when it comes to how they play how out in front they like to be but also how they manage their relationships very clear with Lex who Lex is with who is his core who Lex really doesn't like a lot he wears it on his sleeve because he feels comfortable because he's in charge because he's out in front you see a lot of the same things with Amy to where Amy didn't have to thought she didn't have to worry about managing all of those relationships managing this Alliance where when you're on top you need to work harder than anyone else in the game to make sure you stay there and I think that was why it all fell apart I think if Amy had done and with that I know there's Leanne truthers out there but Leanne did a bit more work with well also Amy was immune during the yeah that if Amy and lean had done a better job of creating better sub alliances making sure that the people on the them felt more comfortable that they could have gotten into a situation where they are the final six and we more than likely have an AM lean winner I think that it was

52:09 Very you know there's subtleties that I don't think that get you know necessarily confessionals about or anything like that but they still show it and Leanne sitting down at the challenge and saying that's okay I didn't need it anyway you know what I mean like it's a very obvious like you know why is she so comfortable and you know the evidence of that was in the pre merge with twia being able to observe you know how the women fawn over Amy and Amy's ability to conduct and manipulate without making twia feel comfortable you know maybe Twila would have had a better shot had twia stuck with new leevy you know and they didn't take out you know Rory and Sarge and you know Chad right away because maybe there's different rooms to make things move throughout you know but yeah I think Amy making it very obvious that twiler was on the bottom and isolating Eliza in a lot of ways I think not paying enough attention to her relationship with Eliza because Eliza was really the pivotal one in that vote I'm glad you brought up l because I watched it today I realized

53:30 My knowledge of tribal names like I can name random tribes past eight but my knowledge of like I know all the tribe names merge and whatever ends at season 8 because here when they announce both tribe names I'm like okay no they're still just men and women like I don't like you saying leei was like oh yeah leei yeah there were there were tribe names here and like unless you're like an iconic tribe or you know like ulong our next season or you know huh Matt Singh or Matt Singh yeah or Fong or whatever I just kind of stopped paying attention the tribe names after all stars that has nothing to do with anything that you just said but yeah go ahead it's the self-referential they very distinctly say Yasser and Le like the people of the tribes very specifically refer to those tribes on the regular and I think that helps you know you've got you know Rory over there being like Oh Yasser this and Yasser that and on the Yasser tribe and then you've got Rory on the Levi tribe at the one shot Levi yeah that's really the only thanks to Rory if it wasn't for

54:50 Rory it all comes back to R I always thought it was kind of ironic that like you have the men versus women and the women's tribe name is yes sir oh open your third eye are there any other characters or players this season that we want to talk about before we start wrapping up Bubba's FAA that I think oh my God has paid dividends into future seasons of think about the Mur Jeff Barner Jeff Barner I think that you know it really goes to I don't what would tribal lines have played a factor had they lost anyway I you probably but like the fact that he just gave them the ammo that they needed by being like think about the merge yeah know Jeff Farner in Cambodia by the way for everyone listening I'm talking about Cambodia not game changers I agree B Bubba was he really screw screwed the pooch there and I would say that I tweeted this one out earlier when Dolly basically had her Christy from Amazon moment of oh yeah I'm in the middle it's like you shut the [ __ ] up because if you if you keep saying that they're just gonna vote you out

56:10 And they got her because she couldn't commit to something thankfully it was pre merge and not right before the end of the game but Julia oh yeah I was just I was just green no other characters for you Julia yeah I was say no other characters for you I mean I think we've touched on a lot of the big ones I lik Bubba he was funny but he said I mentioned earlier prer characters just w't great they were just vehicles to propel the main character story long and in most seasons I really would like that honestly I don't mind it as much this season because I think the main characters were all so rich and developed and compelling that I was fine with a little bit of the balance in the so the big question here before we get to our two questions that we also end these off of why is vanat who not looked highly on in y'all's opinion because I feel like anyone that just gives it one rewatch immediately changes

57:30 Their mind so why do you think that vanatu is historically looked at as a lesser season I feel like a lot of it comes down to timing issues like historically usually the season after a really big returning season a really big season is not perceived very well at the beginning Nicaragua for one gabone was though that wasn't award like a bone wasn't seen highly no one really liked Survivor 41 I know the Survivor 41 truth are going to come out now but after you get like a big Landmark season like all stars with how excited people were about it and then kind of what it turned out to be I think coming right into that Vanuatu wasn't what people wanted to be the separation from All Stars it was good but it wasn't something that would draw them back in from it but now that it's more like super fans watching people going back and revisiting and don't have that full lens of coming right out of Allstars and all of the things surrounding it makes it a much more compelling

58:51 Watch I think had the game been as appreciated as it is today I think that vanatu would have immediately have been favored higher I think it falls victim to the fact that yes it is a season with a lot of villains in it and I think that translates to a lot of dislikable characters I also think the show did not do enough to push a new start if you will like this is the season that's right after all stars and like yeah you're gonna have nothing but new players so you need to do something that's new and nothing about it was really new we just did men versus women like two years prior with Amazon you know and it like yes it was a great season but I think it just shows like oh we don't know how to divide 18 people and we don't want to do season three tribes of six again now survivors fallen into the pitfall if we only know how to F divide 18 people into three citizens or three tribes but yeah like I really think that's that's where it's like a lot of there was a lot of gimmick to it as far as like they added so much game mechanic with the opening with the way the even the merge was convoluted the merge episode gets cut short because there's

1:00:12 A reward challenge in the middle of it and then they merge halfway through immediately go into a challenge and then immediately go to tribal like there's no game talk that episode and that should be a pivotal episode so I think they did lose a lot of luster to just letting the season breathe now I think because people's vision of history and the way that word of mouth kind of projected it if I'm going to recommend to somebody new hey I've got five seasons for you to watch I want them to be all newbie Seasons Vanuatu is not up there in the n in those seasons and so then it falls victim to it's something people watch later and you have to be a hardcore fan to even want to investigate it yeah and I brought this up I don't if it I don't even know if it was before we went live or not but like the revisionist History part of it of I feel like people [ __ ] on the season because a lot of things you guys have brought up and I do I almost related to as a big MCU fan All Stars is not endgame by any means end game is cool All Stars is not but I feel like there's a surv Survivor fatigue aspect

1:01:32 That happens after Allstars where it's like okay yeah now we've got vanu but like who these aren't people that we know and I feel like that's the problem that the one of the problems the new age has run into is oh we had winners at War before covid happened now we don't know any of these people and we really want a rury season so we don't care about any of this until we get to a returning season well in reality like you know you have to build up to the next these next seasons and I think that's why I talk so much about all stars leading into actual All Star this time because as much as I hate Allstars watching the first seven seasons going into it like I had I had to bring up Allstars because a lot of these people are going to have this moment where they all come together here and now we're on the we're on the mic grer trajectory of okay we're gonna get Amy back and we're gonna get Eliza back and we're g like we're gonna 2.0's of two characters that are very big in this season and one of them is very big in their season coming up in a few days I think that there was a lot of Survivor fatigue at that point I think that Allstars probably rubbed a lot of people the wrong way I do feel like you know the fact that it was at face value the there's no there's

1:02:52 No Boston robs on this season you know there are no there are no Johnny Fair plays or Roberts on this season people that like casuals would know there's nobody on this season that casuals would know and I think that's a I go back and listen to this we all agree with you Chris is a top tier winner but I think that's why people have continued to discredit everything that happens this season because you know like I've said at the beginning of this you know it came into my top 10 the when I did 42 and 42 I'm giving it a 4.5 out of five this time around as well as well is what I gave it last time and it could end up in my top five when I'm all said and done with this one July 10th because it does have a very merge to end and that final tribal where you know I could I feel like I could put that on in front of you know just randos and say hey pick a winner from these two because I do feel like both of them did what they had to do in that moment to win you know Chris is the [ __ ] artist who bullshits his way through all of it and thankfully Scout calls him out over the at the end and then there's twia who is herself

1:04:12 And in the moment this is the this is like the third day in a row I've mentioned this but it's the Mike Turner thing where it's like twia realizes In This Moment man I'm really screwed up like people don't respect me here and she's very apologetic about it and I'm glad that she didn't apologize to Liza but apologize to everyone else because she actually did feel bad about everyone else she didn't feel bad about Liza yeah you have a big mouth and you think you're spoiled sorry but to everyone else she was apologetic because she actually felt bad about it I wish more people would give this season a chance anytime I see people's rankings and I see the VIN low I just assume they've only seen it once because if they haven't if they've seen it more than once and I still don't like it they're just crazy final thoughts before I get to the actual last two questions this is officially our last our longest pod of the first nine Seasons so yes underated longest pod any final thoughts in the season before we get to my last few questions yeah I think it is a phenomenal season I do think that there was an earthquake in the middle of the Season like excellent

1:05:33 Location of fire is a cool theming when they themed based off of locations so like that was really cool and I'll also say it is so important that if you are as a Survivor fan have made the decision that you're just gonna watch every season to then go back and just watch it in order because there is a growing process and appreciation that you gain than to just arbitrarily pick season over season because there's just it's just not it doesn't work the same there is no better way to do it than to be a completionist you're gonna have some bad things in the way but to see the progression there's nothing like it and that's why keep coach keep coming back he is 40 and whatever and he'll continue to do them until we're up by like 70 and it takes up half of his year but no I love I love vanatu like I said I love vanu before it was cool that's all I can say I'm gonna go eat some chicken wings behind your guys's back you're not allowed to have any I'll give you the bones though I'll give you the bones coconut Bandits before there were coconut Bandits there were the wing Bandits you deserve it

1:06:53 So last two questions as I've always done from this season we have had two people come back correct were they the two right ones first and if not who would you have put in their spot and who would you have also brought back want to go want absolutely yes they were right you Amy and Eliza both I think delivered on their second time and should have been brought back but I do think that the well should have been dug into more from this season and I do believe that Chris deserved to play again whether it be Heroes versus Villains whether it have been an all winners like Chris should have gotten a call to come back and to defend his title because I don't know if he could do it a second time I think he's an early boot and I also think that twia 100% should have been brought back I don't know if there's anybody else that really should make the cut for a rury especially with a pool that's as deep as it is

1:08:14 But Rory yes Rory but yeah that's my thoughts on that I completely agree feel like they were two obvious picks spring back I also agree twiler Chris definitely should have gotten the opportunity to play again I'm gonna actually disagree with to for a bit I think if Chris had come back I feel like he would have done well I feel like his I think he would have done well because I think he understands the people aspect and at the core like that's the most important thing that's going to translate from like season to se season is understanding people and people Dynamics and going into something like a Heroes versus Villains especially like in all winners his Threat Level is lower no one's really thinking of Chris as this like giant name and like You' surprise to people yeah I agree I think Chris for when is it War Twilight for hero versus Villains and I'll throw or in there for this comment yeah I mean yeah [ __ ] it we'll put him on the F from the favorites try for caram and I don't give a [ __ ]

1:09:35 He can be there whoever answers the calls all right we got we got Franchesca back and we got Rory so we're good and obviously the last question if no matter if the person has come back or not if they were to have people pre-33 on season 50 are there any people that you are dying to see come back from this season for season 50 Chris I think at this point is a little past his prime playing Survivor I still think although probably not the most realistic given her spot seeing like a more adult Al Li a more grown mature Eliza play Survivor would so incredibly interesting because she's either going to be completely transformed she's going to be more calm more rational like bring a real like strategic side to the game or she's gonna be exactly the same and it's gonna be hilarious watching like a 40-year-old woman call people [ __ ] and throw temp temper tant drones and either way I will love every second of it so that's who I would like I agree with that actually

1:10:55 And I think because of how much Eliza has complained about the new era let her play the new era yeah I mean my answer is the same it would be either Chris or Eliza Chris because he should have been a winers at War but Eliza because hey okay you think that this is so easy here you go like you have fun doing this and we'll see if you still think it's easy then I like I would root for because like life is hot but like outside of it you know I think that vanatu did its job and I feel like vanatu is a great jumping off point going into this next phase of Survivor that ends with Micronesia and I'm really looking forward to it and I think if you haven't if you are listening to this at any point and you still haven't watched benatu and you're an hour and 11 minutes in no matter when you're watching it please go watch bow 2 because it's very good like I said I'm going to give it 4.5 out of five I think right now would probably be like second of the nine Seasons that I've watched right behind Pearl Islands and I don't think it's going to change tomorrow because we're talking about my most overrated season Survivor palow

1:12:15 I still like it don't please listen but I still like it I think is overrated but we'll talk about that tomorrow maybe my opinion will change toer thank you so much for joining us today Julia thank you we're going to have you back in a couple of days for Guatemala and I this was this has been a lot of fun because we didn't even touch on a lot of the stuff that I wanted to and I think because we felt so gungho about a lot of stuff that we did but thank you both so much this has been a lot of fun thank you everyone in the chat for continuing to support and we will see you on the other side